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  • Microsoft says it’s time to install Win10 Creators Update

    Home Forums AskWoody blog Microsoft says it’s time to install Win10 Creators Update

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      • #126748 Reply
        woody
        Da Boss

        At the same time, they changed the terminology — which was last changed in May. Tell me again, is it Semi-annual Clearance Sale (Broad)? What we used
        [See the full post at: Microsoft says it’s time to install Win10 Creators Update]

        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #126762 Reply
        John
        AskWoody Lounger

        It’s ok nothing really wrong with it. Just nothing really great about it either. Am I looking forward to Fall Creator update? Nope. Couldn’t care less just as long as doesn’t muck things up.

      • #126765 Reply
        EyesOnWindows
        AskWoody Lounger

        Looks like it’s time for me to go ahead and try out the free NTLite v1.3.1.5060 version to create some really striped down custom 1703 ISO media before that happens. Let’s see, under Remove in Components, click Compatibility button in the upper left, uncheck: Core Metro services, Cortana, Microsoft Office, Out-of-box Experience, Printing, Recommended. That way NTLite will let me toss a whole lot of components…yeah let’s see now…whistle a happy tune 🙂

        HP Compaq 6000 Pro SFF PC / Windows 10 Pro / 1803
        Intel®Core™2 “Wolfdale” E8400 3.0 GHz / 4.00 GB
        EyesOnWindows

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #126774 Reply
          anonymous
          Guest

          Forgive me if I am reading your post wrong but I do like very much your general vibe in that you appear to favour NTlite over the arbitrary take it or leave it Win10. I am a captured by default of a new HP laptop Win10 Home user who has been riding the Win10 bucking bronco for just a short time and am desperately looking for every but which way to get off. I feel being a home user I have basically been tied to the railway tracks and have to be pleasantly surprised and  patient for the M$ train to come and just ride over me and then thank them for the privilege of being their cannon fodder (or forced subject for their experimention) as well. As well left to pickup the pieces and try and get the dismembered body back together again.

          Your post just made me jump up and shriek with delight to think that there may be, just may be, an alternative Windows like O/s that one can use to avoid all the pain and lost time trying to reign in this runaway horse of a maddening Win10 O/s.

          Please can you provide your thoughts on just how good this NTLite is (along with its foibles if any) and the way this little black duck can fly to a better place away (far far away) from Win10. Win10 in not a happy place for me and I have not been able to whistle anything let alone a happy tune, since finding my self plopped into the mire. To quote that all time favourite movie “Network” “I am mad as h*** and can’t take it anymore”

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #126888 Reply
            MrJimPhelps
            AskWoody_MVP

            Looking at http://www.ntlite.com: it is a configuration tool for Windows 10; it is not a replacement for Windows 10.

            I think you would do better switching to a different OS. Xubuntu Linux comes to mind. My computer is set up dual-boot for Xubuntu Linux and Windows 7, but I hardly ever go into Windows. It is there just in case I need it for something that I can’t do in Linux.

            Xubuntu Linux is a “lite” version of Ubuntu Linux. Ubuntu is well-supported, and the apps available for it are generally polished and mature. Generally, anything which will work with Ubuntu will work with Xubuntu. Finally, Xubuntu has a Windows-like interface. It’s not an exact match, but it is close enough to where it is easy to figure stuff out.

            If you are interested in trying out Xubuntu, you can go to xubuntu.com and create a Xubuntu DVD; then boot from that DVD and run Xubuntu directly from the DVD – no need to install anything. In this way, you can see what you think about it. If you decide to go with it, be sure to do a complete backup of your current system before installing Xubuntu.

            Group "L" (Linux Mint)
            with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
            1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #127063 Reply
            Ascaris
            AskWoody_MVP

            Don’t forget that there’s also Windows 8.1.  Yes, the UI is horrendous out of the box, but many tools are available to fix it, and it’s good enough that a staunch traditionalist and UI snob like me considers 8.1 viable.  It’s supported until 2023… whatever MS is going to do with 10 will have happened by then, I think.  Part of me still hopes that MS will recognize what a mess 10 is now and give us what we really wanted as a sequel to 7, but at this point I find that unlikely.  I’m dual booting Linux and 8.1 now, and the plan is to be completely in Linux by 2023.  I could make the jump now if I had to, but I don’t, so why would I?

            Group "L" (KDE Neon User Edition 5.18.5).

            2 users thanked author for this post.
            • #127286 Reply
              AlexEiffel
              AskWoody_MVP

              For business and home folks that mostly use their computer to use Office, Photoshop, or the likes, Windows 8.1 is to me the best OS available right now. You tweak it a bit and you might be quiet for a good amount of time while you let Microsoft and businesses fight when Windows 7 will go EOL in 2020.

              For most non-technical folks, using Classic Shell on Windows 8.1 solves a lot of the perceived UI issues already.

               

              2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #126797 Reply
          BobbyB
          AskWoody Lounger

          @EyesOnWindows thats good to know I didnt think NTLite was still going and even has .ESD support as well its been an age since I have used that, maybe time for a “Walk down memory lane” should the need arise. It used to take a heck of a long time if I remeber right but worked good 🙂

        • #126875 Reply
          EyesOnWindows
          AskWoody Lounger

          So yes, I just tried out NTLite in its free incarnation last night, and with wild abandon, gleefully, shockingly trimmed away large swaths of Windows 10 code bloat (and yes the image of a cowboy straddling a bucking bronco, one hand hanging onto to the saddle, the other waving his hat is very appropriate). So bottom line, yes it does install, boot and run just fine afterwards–although do please note I haven’t yet even connected that test system to the internet.

          Certain caveats, as always do apply. First off, I did indeed flush the entire metro apps core, and I mean all of it. And as expected, the start menu is indeed not at all functional (clicking it shows an unresponsive version of what I had under 1607). But then I’ve already not been using the start menu for quite some time anyway except for two things: sleep/shutdown/restart and settings. Low and behold, for sleep/shutdown/restart CTRL-ALT-DEL brings up a screen with (|) in the lower right corner which when clicked gives exactly those same options. And guess what, settings still works! Just right click on the desktop and choose at the bottom Personalize. That brings up settings, which when you click the (gear) Home area in the upper left takes you to the full swath of settings categories.

          Typing “control” into a command window, power shell, (Windows button)R, or TaskManager>File>”Run new task” will bring up the control panel. Likewise, if you are comming at this completely cold (command window (“cmd”), “powershell”, “explorer” not pinned to the task bar), type those likewise into any of those to bring them up and then pin them to the taskbar. Note that you can also pin both settings and control panel to the taskbar. Also note that TaskManager appears on the CTRL-ALT-DEL screen. So, if like me, you just like to terminate the explorer process just to see what happens, you can run it again using CTRL-ALT-DEL:TaskManager>File>”Run new task”.

          Also, I left Edge and IE11 in when I trimmed the bloat last night just see if they still run without the metro app core. And yes they do as far as I can tell without connecting to the internet.

          So real I’m a really happy camper so far. Only time will tell if I’ve mortally wounded Windows 10 in some way or other. Smash windows? Diminished windows? Nah, how about dwindles for a cute name? Just free associating… 🙂

          So what did I do? Got the NTLite 64-bit version, clicked the 1703 Windows 10 (Pro and Home) 64-bit ISO media I already had used before to mount it (for me shows as E:\ “CCSA_X64FRE_EN-US_DV5”), create a folder, drag-copy the contents of the mounted ISO media into that folder, run NTLite, add that folder to the source choices in NTLite, load the Windows 10 Pro wim from under that folder, on the NTLite Taskbar click the Compatibility button in the upper left, uncheck what I wrote earlier and then close it, uncheck the Components>Windows>APPS and more–I ended up tossing 52 components in all; 10K files/1 GB or so, click Apply to see a summary–note I did not check “Create ISO”, finally, on the NTLite Taskbar click Process to get the ball rolling.

          Whew, after all that, only the sources\install.wim in that folder gets changed. I clicked setup.exe in that folder to install the newly minted setup. I ignored it for about an hour (read a book for a while–my system is quiet–so I can’t hear it–but I did check to see that the disk access had stopped flickering) and moved the mouse to wake the display to see “Welcome to Windows 10!” displayed. Then Next … Choose Privacy Settings (yeah–set all to off/basic to the left) … Accept … wait … 12:13 AM Fri July 28 over the rice paddies image I had before and then login. Note that I’m blessed to have a plain vanilla circa 2010 HP system which runs just fine with the generic Microsoft drivers.

          As to the free NTLite, note that the items in blue text are unchangeable when used in the free/unlicensed mode. Offhand I didn’t need any of those. I could easily have also scrubbed Edge and IE11, had I so desired. I did also change nearly all of the Settings>User (mostly privacy related) to disabled. The Windows Update and/or Windows Defender system components can also be scrubbed should that ever be desired–you’d have to very carefully administer a system with those missing. I also disabled the “Connected User Experiences and Telemetry” service from inside NTLite as well since I now normally do that under the current version 1607 as well. The test system was running an up-to-date version of 1607 Windows 10 Pro at the time I did this. I may roll back and redo this again with even more components scrubbed and services disabled if I feel up to it. There were things I didn’t grok that I might toss if I can figure just what they are. I did toss the Holo* and Office related components already.

          Oops…looks like I just ran out of time…hey thanks for the heads up Woody!

          The newest Windows feature update is here as shown 7/28/2017 for version 1703 on version 1607.

          HP Compaq 6000 Pro SFF PC / Windows 10 Pro / 1803
          Intel®Core™2 “Wolfdale” E8400 3.0 GHz / 4.00 GB
          EyesOnWindows

          3 users thanked author for this post.
          • #126937 Reply
            anonymous
            Guest

            That picture looks like (when translated from microsoft) we have ALREADY installed the update, but the install needs a reboot TO COMPLETE, you are precariously in the middle of installing a major operating system upgrade, now would be a terrible time to loose power, and it’s too late to start an OS backup.

            • #127049 Reply
              b
              AskWoody Plus

              Which part of “Pick a time” didn’t you understand?

              Windows 10 Pro Version 2004: Group ASAP (chump/pioneer)

              • #127065 Reply
                anonymous
                Guest

                I assume that was sarcasm (which I am bad at detecting and is harder to detect in a text).

                If not (or for those just confused anyway)
                “Pick a time” = “Pick a time to automatically reboot and complete this partially installed update, otherwise we will complete it on the NEXT reboot since it is already half installed.”

              • #127775 Reply
                MrJimPhelps
                AskWoody_MVP

                Which part of “Pick a time” didn’t you understand?

                Are you saying I could pick any time I wanted to? Say, 11:59 PM, on December 31, 2525?

                My understanding is that “Pick a time” doesn’t mean “any time I want to”; I’ve always understood it to mean “any time real soon”.

                Group "L" (Linux Mint)
                with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
              • #127815 Reply
                b
                AskWoody Plus

                No, a time within 7 days.

                Windows 10 Pro Version 2004: Group ASAP (chump/pioneer)

          • #127056 Reply
            Jan K.
            AskWoody Lounger

            NTlite? Now there was a flashback!

            Spent hours trimming and tuning XP with that (previous ed.) wonderful tool!

            But that screendump above…

            I’ve previously in a snarky mood called the brilliantly executed Windows Update System for a bit like playing russian roulette… the screendump is next step up: extreme russian roulette. All chambers are loaded!

            The gun will fire, but you can of course try to sleep your way out of it! 😀

            No “Regret” or “Forget it” button, but still would love to see two more buttons “I feel lucky!” and “Surprise me!”

            Thanks for the story! 🙂

            1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #126907 Reply
          EyesOnWindows
          AskWoody Lounger

          Update–I hooked the dwindle test system to the internet–both Edge and IE11 both work fine. However–both Windows Update and Windows Defender are not able to update–a class is not registered error 0x80040154–I will have to look into that later. NTLite showed about 5 different possible settings for “Delivery Optimization” among them WSUS, HTML, and BITS. I had left it at default. Possibly changing whatever setting that is will do the trick.

          Right now I’m going to have to deal with the Microsoft 1703 whale that just beached itself on my system at long last. No I don’t bother to use wushowhide. Network status says it used about 7 GB doing so.  A “DIR /A /S C:\$WINDOWS.~BT|clip” pasted into notepad shows at the end “19164 File(s) 9,236,233,492 bytes” and “11059 Dir(s) 56,714,641,408 bytes free”. Since it’s already there complete with patches, I’ll let it install while it’s offline and try my luck neutering it before I go back online. I want see what the effect of zeroing the various settings under HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\ContentDeliveryManager has on preventing useless apps from installing in the first place.

          HP Compaq 6000 Pro SFF PC / Windows 10 Pro / 1803
          Intel®Core™2 “Wolfdale” E8400 3.0 GHz / 4.00 GB
          EyesOnWindows

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #126952 Reply
            BobbyB
            AskWoody Lounger

            @eyesonwindows sounds worth a try this weekend as I am at a loose end. Just curious but as you no doubt know the average .wim or .esd has multiple indices/index’s inside does it modify all or just one? or does it split the target index out and remake the .iso with a single index .wim or .esd, not really a biggie here as I assume you could probably modify the core/home/base edition, copy the .wim and then use DISM to, for example, “/setedition:Professional”.
            Just mulling it over here as unfortunately I cant stay on 1607 for ever, even though I like it, then again I like Win7 and 8.1 and they are for the “chop” all to soon too. 🙁
            Hey what can it hurt? data’s all backed up, house is quiet, nothing on the TV, +35c outside. (way to hot to watch the grass wither) and theres always the old trusty “native boot” VHD option, hows that go now lol?
            “diskpart” “create vdiskfile=c:\win101703.vhd maximum=50000 type=fixed”
            What could possibly go wrong lol? 🙂
            PS yeah theres a lot of “Chaff” in there that probably could/should go Thx for the “in depth” foregoing much appreciated 🙂

          • #127497 Reply
            Noel Carboni
            AskWoody_MVP

            I haven’t tried NTLite. I do the culling in more of the “old fashioned ways”.

            Notably I had to trim less from v1703 than any prior system to retain system functionality and serviceability.

            I’ll be interested to hear what your trimmed-down process count is. After 10 or 15 minutes my Win 10 v1703 “idle desktop” process count settles down to 66 with RAM usage of around 1 GB, and that includes 9 that are the result of things I’ve chosen to run (but which, like ClassicShell, supplant other things that are removed, so are necessary).

            The process count with v1703 is now, in general, much higher because most every service is run in its own process, vs. batching them together as with all NT-based systems before. I never had a problem with the old organization, but this is arguably actually better, because it exposes more things that can be considered for trimming.

            I’ll be interested in hearing whether:

            • The NTLite trimmed system can be successfully updated.
            • There are errors logged at bootup? (I get 1 because UAC is blocked).
            • Does RuntimeBroker.exe run? (it does on mine)
            • Does SearchUI.exe run? (it does on mine)
            • Does ShellExperienceHost.exe run? (it does on mine)
            • SFC or the DISM commands to fix servicing problems work? (they do here)

            Thanks for information you’re willing to share.

            A trimmed-down Windows system can be a Good Thing!

            -Noel

      • #126787 Reply
        Rock
        AskWoody Lounger

        Honestly, what…a…mess. For a company that wanted to make it possible for someone to not have to ask what version of windows you have because it’s all Windows 10 (and they keep updating everyone all the time) they certainly have screwed that up. There have never been this many versions of Windows before with different names for every version lol and they are going to speed up that change and make even more.

        that-moment-when-you-are-caught-dumbfounded-meme-28259

        Attachments:
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      • #126794 Reply
        BobbyB
        AskWoody Lounger

        Well I guess most of you, on 1607, by the time of reading this will have got the feature update to 1703, ticking the box in the settings panel to defer and even setting the Group Policy didnt deter it here, hopefully taken care of with WSUS show & Hide. (and has been)
        Mixed results with 1703 in clean install to VHD and VHDX yes it works well and its ok but heres the caveat, If your running multi/dual boot definately disable fast Boot on 1703 and/or what ever other version your running albeit Win8.1 or 10 other wise itll inevitably fail to boot one day at some point. I am unable to quantify as to which update, if any, is responsible as it normally happens around the 10th-12th restart, tried with Office 10 & 16. (I know shouldnt matter but had them sat here) It may well be its not “Happy” (yeah sorry for non tech. term) running in a Dual Boot config. I havent tried it in a HDD partition yet, probably because 1607 is running “sweet as a nut”, dont want the pain of migrating Data and stuff over, traditionally always favoured complete “clean” install as an M.O. and really theres not that much different in 1703 to warrant such a drastic shift. (VHD’s are cool you can tinker at your own pace little bit here and there but the underlying Host is delightfully untouched and stable) Not sure what to make of it at all as far as I can research its not really a common problem, I dont have any of the “blacklisted” Processors and I am not reading about any major changes. Probably just one of those things So its 1607 for me for a while. 🙂

      • #126801 Reply
        dononline
        AskWoody Plus

        So then, we’re going to be served up a major “upgrade” of WIN 10 every six months, along with the security patches and Cumulative Updates every month, and our “new” WIN 10 will reach “end-of-life” after 18 months. After that, no security or feature updates … rigghhhtt! I’m sure that’ll work even better than WaaS since WIN 8 went down in flames!

        But, what do we do now? I’ve been using every version of Windows since WIN 3.1. I was always one of the first to upgrade every time a new version was released. Even got excited and looked forward to it. With HDD, RAM, and processor upgrades, I could make a computer last a lot of years. I’ve only needed to buy one computer and three want-to computers since 1992 (good thing, too, cause a decent one cost $2,500 in those days)! I have added a laptop and a 2-in-1 for travel and a touch-screen experience, though. And it has been fun, too!

        But no more. Since WIN 8 — which I tried with every beta release for a day or two and promptly removed it in frustration — Windows has been nothing but a pain in the butt. I finally discovered the joys of WindowBlinds and Start 8, and pulled the trigger with WIN 8.1. I actually liked it. Then came WIN 10 and it’s WaaS pile of, uh, junk: Monthly security updates, Cumulative Updates, and a new version every nine months or so, ALL of which left my computers broke, bricked, or maimed. Days, even weeks of reading and troubleshooting spent searching for fixes. Some things are still not fixed. (I never had a single problem with just setting WIN 7 up to automatically update and do it’s thing.)

        Maybe someone will come up with a decent alternative to Windows before I die, but right now, I can’t see that happening. So, I guess it’s going to be just keeping on keeping on, but now, instead of waiting for CBB to upgrade, I’ll be waiting for “end-of-life” every 18 months — unless MS comes up with another brain-fart that makes even that impossible to take.

        Thank goodness I found Woody’s great Website and all the knowledgeable and helpful folks here (and WUMT)! Great, great help!

        Sorry for the long rant but I’m at my rope’s end. Life’s too short, and I’m getting too old! 🙂

        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #126905 Reply
          MrJimPhelps
          AskWoody_MVP

          But, what do we do now?…Maybe someone will come up with a decent alternative to Windows before I die, but right now, I can’t see that happening.

          Don, you seriously should check out Xubuntu Linux. Go to http://www.xubuntu.com and make an install disk. Then boot from the disk and run Linux directly from the disk, without installing it on your computer, just to try it out. I think you will be well-pleased at this decent alternative to Windows, available right now. In fact, my guess is that it won’t be long before you install it on your computer as either a dual-boot with, or replacement for, Windows 10.

          Be sure to back up your system before installing it.

          Group "L" (Linux Mint)
          with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
          2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #126983 Reply
            dononline
            AskWoody Plus

            Sounds like a plan, Jim. I tried Ubuntu several years ago, Pretty good, but not quite up to snuff at that time. Problem is, both my wife and I use our three computers, and I’m not sure if she would want to go through the change. I will put a copy on a USB stick, though, and give it a look. Thanks.

            • #127771 Reply
              MrJimPhelps
              AskWoody_MVP

              I have three hard drives in my computer: one has Xubuntu, one has Windows 7, and one is for data. I have a hard drive power switch which allows me to turn each drive on or off. So whenever I want to switch from one OS to the other, I power the computer down, power off one drive, and power on the other drive. I then power up the computer, and like magic, I’m in the other OS. And all of my data is available, because it’s on the 3rd drive.

              If you set things up like that, you can begin the transition to Xubuntu while always being able to go back to Windows literally at the push of a couple of buttons.

              Xubuntu (and Ubuntu) are definitely up to snuff these days, and getting better all the time.

              Group "L" (Linux Mint)
              with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
              2 users thanked author for this post.
              • #127796 Reply
                anonymous
                Guest

                I have a similar technique that does not require wiring a power switch between the power supply and each drive.

                If you have a modern BIOS like most Asus motherboards come with, and probably many off the shelf PCs too, there is a quick boot menu button that you can click on and just select the drive you wish to boot from, and off you go!  I keep both boot drives connected to SATA and power at all times, plus a data drive.

                So say I am running Windows, and want to switch to Linux (Mint, in my case), all I have to do is select reboot, and the while booting hit the “Del” or “F2” key to enter the BIOS menu.  No need to enter advanced boot options and re-jigger the boot order or anything.  Just point and click, and I’m booting Linux Mint in a flash!

                It’s accessed here using the button at the bottom labeled “Boot Menu” (Selects the boot device priority).  BIOS menus may vary by manufacturer, so consult your manual, or explore your BIOS menu to see if you have this feature.  It sure is handy!  🙂

                Asus Bios Menu

                Asus Bios Menu

                 

                 

                2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #126814 Reply
        NetDef
        AskWoody_MVP

        We’re having issues blocking 1703 on a GP managed network.  We’ve got the correct Group Policy setting, and it’s set to the maximum 180 days for Business, but several workstations tonight decided “it’s time . . . no matter what we want.”  And I cannot yet confirm, but it looks like they are pulling this direct from Microsoft Update, instead of our WSUS server – on which the 1703 feature update has been denied.

        Possible we’ve missed something obvious here, I’m troubleshooting this into tonight.  Actually swung by these forums hoping someone else knew about it and could tell me what went wrong.

        Grrrr . . . .

        ~ Group "Weekend" ~

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #126832 Reply
          ch100
          AskWoody_MVP

          I think there was a discussion about how Group Policies for WSUS and those for Deferring Feature Updates cannot coexist. It is either of them, which looks normal to me.
          The deferring of the feature updates is only an unnecessary hack for desktop computers, but may be useful in other context, like mobile devices not managed via Group Policy.
          You may have to look in the description of the policies for some clues.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #126916 Reply
            MrJimPhelps
            AskWoody_MVP

            The deferring of the feature updates is only an unnecessary hack for desktop computers, but may be useful in other context, like mobile devices not managed via Group Policy.

            ch100, just curious: Have you ever done desktop support or a related job in a large corporate setting? Some updates cause business-critical things to break; therefore, deferring updates is not an “unnecessary hack for desktop computers”.

            For example, the company I worked at in the early 2000s used a proprietary accounting program for all of the company’s financials. A Windows 2000 update came down the pipeline which caused the accounting program to crash. When I uninstalled the update, the accounting program worked once again.

            I know what some people would say: “Get a newer accounting program.” It isn’t always that easy. It may be a huge expense and hassle to do that. That decision should be left up to the customer, not to Microsoft. Back then, it was left up to the customer, because all we needed to do was hide that update, and it would never come back again. However, in the world of Windows 10, “Microsoft knows best”. If that same thing happened today, they would have been forced to make a painful decision about either sticking with Windows or sticking with the accounting program. (I would have advised them to look for a Windows alternative.)

            Group "L" (Linux Mint)
            with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
            2 users thanked author for this post.
            • #126992 Reply
              ch100
              AskWoody_MVP

              ch100, just curious: Have you ever done desktop support or a related job in a large corporate setting? Some updates cause business-critical things to break; therefore, deferring updates is not an “unnecessary hack for desktop computers”.

              I assume that you don’t understand how Group Policy works in detail if you raise the issue of Deferring Updates in large organisations via that setting when there is a full implementation of controlling WU available. Large organisations of the size which you discuss do not use that sort of settings. They are only a sweetener released for people attending forums like this one and looking for advice, people with minimal understanding of how much Windows scales out.

              1 user thanked author for this post.
              • #127764 Reply
                MrJimPhelps
                AskWoody_MVP

                My point was that an organization needs to be able to have control over if and when a particular update is installed, as well as the ability to uninstall a particular update if necessary. Your comment about deferring feature updates being an unnecessary hack for desktop computers reminded me of the time that a Windows update crashed the accounting system at a company I worked for, and that uninstalling and then blocking the offending update prevented future crashes. In our case, blocking the offending update was a “necessary hack” in order to keep our accounting system up and running.

                We didn’t use WSUS or any other update management system; we simply turned automatic updates on. That was a long time ago; I don’t know what my former employer is doing now with regard to Windows updates.

                Group "L" (Linux Mint)
                with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
            • #126994 Reply
              anonymous
              Guest

              @MrJimPhelps

              Fyi, the replyer has previously revealed that he is working as a Windows System Admin in Australia = pro-M$/Win 10.

              The main point, which seems to be ignored by him, is that Win 10 Pro & Ent’s Group Policy does not allow SMBs & corporations to indefinitely or permanently defer feature updates or Version upgrades, like this Creators Update/Version 1703 that is coming down the pipeline for Win 10 Pro & Ent, … except for those who are able to run the super-expensive Win 10 Ent E5 Volume Licensed LTSB or LTSC.

              • #127767 Reply
                MrJimPhelps
                AskWoody_MVP

                The main point…is that Win 10 Pro & Ent’s Group Policy does not allow SMBs & corporations to indefinitely or permanently defer feature updates or Version upgrades, like this Creators Update/Version 1703 that is coming down the pipeline for Win 10 Pro & Ent, … except for those who are able to run the super-expensive Win 10 Ent E5 Volume Licensed LTSB or LTSC.

                The way you put it, it sounds like you have to pay “protection money” in order to get a stable version of Windows!

                Group "L" (Linux Mint)
                with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
                1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #126815 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        Oohhh Aaaahhh … Nope! I’ve read about enough troubles this evening. :/

        Has Microsoft created a ‘Windows 10 1703 S, SN, KN or N Server Datacenter Edition‘ yet? 😉

      • #126844 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        Is it possible to go directly from 1607 to the Fall Creator update through Windows Update?

        Or do you have to allow 1703 to be installed first?

        • #126846 Reply
          PKCano
          Da Boss

          If you can keep 1703 from installing, I think you can wait to update till Fall Creators comes out.
          However, you probably don’t want to install it right after release either – too many bugs. So you will need to hold off even longer.

      • #126847 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        Thank you. I realize I’ll have to wait until the Fall Creators Update is stable enough. But since 1607 is supported until March there’s no rush, I guess… Thanks again!

      • #126853 Reply
        samak
        AskWoody Plus

        Every time I see an article on this site about Windows 10, I love my Windows 7 even more. Till death us do part!

        W7 SP1 Home Premium 64-bit, Office 2010, Group B, non-techie

        4 users thanked author for this post.
        • #126879 Reply
          Microfix
          AskWoody MVP

          Snap! for our W8.1

          I’ve retired our Win7 Pro for now, SSD swap out, to revisit at a later date on the same PC 🙂

          Win7 Pro x86/x64 | Win8.1 Pro x64 | Linux Hybrids x86/x64 |
          1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #126865 Reply
        teuhasn
        AskWoody Lounger

        Doing a Woody green-lit monthly update yesterday on a PC with Win 10 Pro that’s set in permissions to hold off feature upgrades until approved for Current Branch for Business, “Windows 10 feature upgrade 1703” did show up for the first time for me yesterday when I ran Wushowhide. Without checking here first, I just hid it and then applied the other Windows and Office updates from early July. I’ll probably unhide 1703 a month from now and install it if it’s not causing issues.

        The day before yesterday, I had updated a different PC with the same configuration, and 1703 was not being offered on that PC yet. So yeah, Microsoft apparently just changed this yesterday for Win 10 Pro users who have set Current Branch for Business permissions for Win 10 feature upgrades.

        • #126870 Reply
          anonymous
          Guest

          Is Current Branch for Business was different than Long-Term Targeted Branch for Business?

          I’m confused by the new renamed groups and how I am in one group or the other. Can I be in more than one group? What is the Long-Term Targeted Branch for Business? I though that was the same as the Long Term Servicing Channel for Business (or is that just the new name?). Is the one you can select in windows updates Annual Targeted Channel or just LBTC? Also, what is the Semi-Current Branch? Which one lets you delay updates? (by 35 days or 10 days now?) Do I get that option when running Anniversary Upgrade (1151)?

          • #126902 Reply
            teuhasn
            AskWoody Lounger

            You’re confused??!? How can that be?? Microsoft couldn’t have been clearer or more consistent about all this. BWA HA HA HA! Nope, I tried but can’t keep a straight face typing that. They couldn’t have been less clear or consistent if they’d worked at it.

            I can’t answer some of your questions, because I don’t know either. I’ll leave that to the more technically minded here who may know. But remember, setting a Windows 10 Group Policy to block feature upgrades until approved for Current Branch for Business or whatever they’re now renaming it to isn’t an option in Win 10 Home, the free upgrade version. Microsoft needs those folks to do all their beta testing for them, so they can’t do this. It sounds to me as a rename, not a change in policy, but I don’t get it either. The way to do it in Win 10 Pro and Enterprise (and yes, if my memory is correct, it was available in 1511 Pro or Enterprise as well as 1607–it’s actually a legacy setting that goes back to at least Win 7) has been documented elsewhere on AskWoody and the web.

            1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #126990 Reply
              Cybertooth
              AskWoody Plus

              Sometimes I wonder if there isn’t a strategy behind all these constant renamings and relabelings: to make things so confusing and difficult that we just throw our hands up and decide to let the MS gods have their way with us. Because they know better than us what our needs are.

              NOT.

              1 user thanked author for this post.
              • #127005 Reply
                anonymous
                Guest

                @ Cybertooth

                M$’s new emphasis is on “SEMI ANNUAL” = twice a year upgrades = 18 months of EOL for each upgrade.

                Corporations/SMBs who purchase Win 10 Ent E3 Version Volume Licenses(VL) without Software Assurance(SA) or Upgrade Insurance will reach EOL after 18 months = have to buy new Volume Licenses.
                … Those who lease/rent or subscribe Win 10 Ent or buy the super-expensive Win 10 Ent E5 VL LTSB/LTSC are not affected by the 18 months EOL, similar to Office 365 which has perpetual EOL as long as the subscriptions are paid.
                … IOW, M$’s new SEMI ANNUAL terminology is to remind the former that they would be better off choosing the latter = more profit$ for M$.

                P S – First-time buyers of Win 10 Ent VL are required by M$ to buy SA at least once.
                Those who lease Win 10 Ent are required to buy SA throughout their lease, on top of paying for the lease/rental.
                Those who subscribe to Win 10 Ent or Pro do not have to buy SA.

              • #127498 Reply
                Noel Carboni
                AskWoody_MVP

                Sometimes I wonder if there isn’t a strategy behind all these constant renamings and relabelings: to make things so confusing and difficult that we just throw our hands up and decide to let the MS gods have their way with us.

                That and spurring on free press (as in “news is free advertising”) with people writing helpful articles to clear away some confusion. And a few other subtle marketing reasons.

                You are not off base at all.

                -Noel

      • #126876 Reply
        bobcat5536
        AskWoody Plus

        I just did update and I’m showing Build 14393.1480 and according to this site: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4000825 I should be at 14393.1532. After rechecking for updates, it says I’m up to date. A little confused here. Can anyone shed some light on this ?

        • #126881 Reply
          abbodi86
          AskWoody_MVP

          This update is available for manual download/install, it’s not pushed to WU

          • #126884 Reply
            bobcat5536
            AskWoody Plus

            Thanks…I kinda thought maybe that was the case.  Is this update really needed before going to 1703, if it’s not offered thru Windows Update ?

            • #126894 Reply
              abbodi86
              AskWoody_MVP

              No, no other updates really needed for Feature Update (Upgrade)

              • #126895 Reply
                bobcat5536
                AskWoody Plus

                It’s supposed to fix a bunch of little stuff…so I bit the bullet and it’s installing now. X crossing fingers.

              • #126896 Reply
                abbodi86
                AskWoody_MVP

                It fixes them for current 1607 OS, and will be included in next Patch Tueday Cumulative

                upgrading to 1703 is a different OS

                1 user thanked author for this post.
              • #126899 Reply
                bobcat5536
                AskWoody Plus

                It finished and is showing the correct build…BUT when I checked Update History, it says ” No Updates Have Been Installed Yet ”   ???????????  All the history is gone. 🙁

              • #126900 Reply
                abbodi86
                AskWoody_MVP

                Did you installed it directly fron .msu file?

                it should erase update history

              • #126901 Reply
                bobcat5536
                AskWoody Plus

                Yes..downloaded and then executed the install and it installed just fine. So was it supposed to erase all my history and give me that message ?

              • #126993 Reply
                ch100
                AskWoody_MVP

                Yes, it is a known problem or feature, whatever everyone’s interpretation is.
                This has been know for few months by those of us on CB and discussed elsewhere.
                Being a new OS as @abbodi86 says, this means that the 1607 history is no longer relevant.
                I don’t know if this is the correct approach, but this is the design as it appears.

              • #127010 Reply
                bobcat5536
                AskWoody Plus

                Thanks for the info..I thought maybe the update was buggy. The history may be no longer relevant to MS but it is to me.  I like to know if the update failed or not. Talked to MS support and they told me that the history will now start over when the next update installs. A little note on their part would have been nice, but I guess it’s just part of their grand plan to make life miserable, I mean better, for everyone 🙂

              • #127499 Reply
                Noel Carboni
                AskWoody_MVP

                It’s like installing a whole new version of the OS as an “in-place upgrade”.

                Funny thing… I never did that back when “whole new versions” were labeled as such. Windows always worked better when fresh-installed. There are very, very good reasons why, which I won’t go into here.

                This time around was no different. Some months ago when I installed v1703 as an upgrade to v1607 it worked fine – for a while. Then it just stopped being able to take updates. No amount of SFC or DISM or anything else I could think to do would correct it, so I broke down and fresh-installed v1703 from an ISO. Now I can update it again.

                Microsoft insists on basing its strategy on fundamentally flawed ideas (such as the “in-place upgrade” of a whole new build) that just don’t work, and probably can never work very well. Then they manage that mediocrity most adeptly.

                -Noel

                1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #126882 Reply
          bobcat5536
          AskWoody Plus

          I forgot to mention that I’m on Build 1607. Thought I better try to get up to date before I go to 1703.   Thanks All

      • #126892 Reply
        JohnW
        AskWoody Plus

        I ran ‘wushowhide’ today, and was greeted by the 1703 Feature update, along with the expected July updates.

        Hid 1703.  🙂

      • #126947 Reply
        grumpy65867
        AskWoody Plus

        Hit me yesterday. Not seeing much difference, so blah.

      • #126938 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        Someone explain to me how Current Branch for Business is different than Long-Term Targeted Branch for Business.

        Also how hard to I have to press the upgrade button for it to boot Windows 7 (or even Windows 8.1)?

      • #126963 Reply
        EP
        AskWoody_MVP

        Paul Thurrott has some thoughts about the Win10 Creators update being “fully available” here:
        https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/128641/windows-10-creators-update-now-fully-available-microsoft-says

        AND that Microsoft plans to retire support for the Windows 10 November 2015 Update (aka. 1511 release) on October 10, 2017 as noted in PT’s article.

      • #126967 Reply
        JohnW
        AskWoody Plus

        A thought just occurred to me.  If Microsoft ends support for 1511 in October 2017, what happens to the systems that never get upgraded?  No more security updates for you!

        Do we end up with a large number of unsupported Win 10 systems, just like we have now with end of life XP and Vista (and potentially Win 7 holdouts in a few years), that pose undue security risks to the rest of the computing world?

        Will MS have to cave the next time there is a Wannacry type exploit and issue emergency patches for them all?

        Has MS really thought any of this through completely???

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #126981 Reply
          abbodi86
          AskWoody_MVP

          The same thing that happened to 1507, upgrade or get off the train 🙂

          it’s not logical for a business company to support all Windows versions until the end of days

          2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #126991 Reply
            ch100
            AskWoody_MVP

            Only that 1507 got more life injected due to the WannaCry worm, having few more patches released beyond the announced end of life date.
            It is likely to be over soon though.

            • #127013 Reply
              abbodi86
              AskWoody_MVP

              It’s already over with July Cumulative Update KB4025338, it’s applicable for Enterprise LTSB

              all other 1507 editions will not go further June CU KB4032695

              2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #127041 Reply
            JohnW
            AskWoody Plus

            Yup, I agree no support forever is a necessity.

            But my point was that “upgrade, or get off the train” could potentially affect Win 10 users that don’t upgrade.  The cycle of obsolescence is now 18 months, rather than ~10+ years, as has been the case with the past two end-of-life Windows [XP & Vista].

            As was recently publicized, having out of date computers with known vulnerabilities connected to the net affects more than just the individual users.

            1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #127501 Reply
              Noel Carboni
              AskWoody_MVP

              You are talking about something more significant than it’s being given credit for.

              I imagine Microsoft thinks such outdated systems should just be thrown away; after all they have shiny new ones all glued together and for sale.

              -Noel

        • #126999 Reply
          anonymous
          Guest

          @ John W

          If Microsoft ends support for 1511 in October 2017, what happens to the systems that never get upgraded? No more security updates for you!

          Do we end up with a large number of unsupported Win 10 systems, just like we have now with end of life XP and Vista (and potentially Win 7 holdouts in a few years), that pose undue security risks to the rest of the computing world?

          According to M$’s new Apple-like business model of twice-yearly upgrades and 18 months of EOL, the unfortunate Win 10 users who could no longer upgrade to new Versions for whatever reason, are supposed to buy new Win 10 computers = more profit$ for M$ and the OEMs = Planned Obsolescence.

          … Who knows. ?, in future M$ may just send a “time-bomb” to deactivate or cripple such unsupported Win 10 computers, eg those still running Version RTM/1507, in the name of security or ‘M$ know what’s best for you’.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #127042 Reply
        JohnW
        AskWoody Plus

        Only that 1507 got more life injected due to the WannaCry worm, having few more patches released beyond the announced end of life date.
        It is likely to be over soon though.

        Only until a new vulnerability gets exploited in a major way.

        • #127104 Reply
          ch100
          AskWoody_MVP

          In theory yes, but we will never know.
          It is not like XP or Vista which could not be upgraded for free based on license.
          With Windows 10 except for LTSB of which one of them is 1507, end-users are required to upgrade when a current release support ends. It is still considered Windows 10 and except for the same LTSB, there is no new license required to upgrade.
          Currently only 1507 and 1607 are also released as LTSB and it is likely that most updates are common with those on current release.

      • #127055 Reply
        radosuaf
        AskWoody Lounger

        …so I made another attempt to install 1703 on the Lenovo Yoga 2 tablet. With the same result – no audio. Installing the drivers from Lenovo site (dated 2015) does not help. Everything is working fine on all versions up to 1607. Anybody has an idea if there are any alternative drivers (cannot identify the chip exactly, no info on Lenovo’s site)?

        Seems my end of support is coming in March 2018… Should have left Win 8.1 backup :(.

        MSI H110 PC MATE * Intel Core i5-6402P * 2 x 8 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2133 MHz * Aorus Radeon RX 570 4GB * Samsung 840 EVO 250GB SSD * Western Digital Blue 1TB HDD * Seagate Barracuda 1TB HDD * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer PCI * Windows 10 Pro 2004 64-bit
        • #127059 Reply
          JohnW
          AskWoody Plus

          Open Device Manager, scroll down to Sound, Video, and Game controllers.  Double click on the audio device to open properties, then click on driver tab.  The Driver Details button should show the driver files that are currently installed.

          Alternatively, you can locate information about your system hardware by downloading the free HWiNFO.  From the left had pane, open up the “Audio” section in the tree view, click on the audio device, and see the details in the right hand pane.

          https://www.hwinfo.com/download.php

          About HWiNFO
          In-depth Hardware Information.  From a quick overview unfolding into the depth of all hardware components. Always up-to date supporting latest technologies and standards.

          • #127062 Reply
            radosuaf
            AskWoody Lounger

            1. There is NO audio device in the Device Manager. Also, no devices with yellow exclamation mark.

            2. HWiNFO shows “Unknown or none” under Audio.

            MSI H110 PC MATE * Intel Core i5-6402P * 2 x 8 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2133 MHz * Aorus Radeon RX 570 4GB * Samsung 840 EVO 250GB SSD * Western Digital Blue 1TB HDD * Seagate Barracuda 1TB HDD * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer PCI * Windows 10 Pro 2004 64-bit
            • #127064 Reply
              JohnW
              AskWoody Plus

              That’s what I would expect to see on your Windows 1703.  I thought you had rolled back to 1607, and could take a peek at that for a clue on what to install for 1703 after the upgrade.

              • #127071 Reply
                radosuaf
                AskWoody Lounger

                Ah OK, will do later. Have to download the ISO and reinstall.

                MSI H110 PC MATE * Intel Core i5-6402P * 2 x 8 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2133 MHz * Aorus Radeon RX 570 4GB * Samsung 840 EVO 250GB SSD * Western Digital Blue 1TB HDD * Seagate Barracuda 1TB HDD * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer PCI * Windows 10 Pro 2004 64-bit
              • #127099 Reply
                JohnW
                AskWoody Plus

                One other thought.  Are there ANY unknown devices with the exclamation point anywhere in device manager, after the upgrade?

                If there are, it could be a good sign.  That way when the correct drivers get installed, they should match up.

                But if for some reason, your BIOS is not passing the right hardware info to Windows, or Windows is passing it up, the audio device may go undetected.  The detection should happen for any device that is enabled in the BIOS, so if not, I don’t know what to say.

                If the hardware is not being detected correctly, I’m not sure just installing drivers will fix the issue.  Hardware detection is a prerequisite.

              • #127124 Reply
                radosuaf
                AskWoody Lounger

                No, there are no devices with exclamation mark (which I find strange). BIOS is not very sophisticated (as in cheap tablets), so no options to turn audio on or off.

                Rufus is just finishing with preparing 1607 USB stick, so we’ll see…

                MSI H110 PC MATE * Intel Core i5-6402P * 2 x 8 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2133 MHz * Aorus Radeon RX 570 4GB * Samsung 840 EVO 250GB SSD * Western Digital Blue 1TB HDD * Seagate Barracuda 1TB HDD * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer PCI * Windows 10 Pro 2004 64-bit
        • #127105 Reply
          ch100
          AskWoody_MVP

          Try to install the Intel Chipset from Intel’s site. Make sure it is relevant for your Intel Chipset, if your laptop uses Intel CPU and chipset. While I am in favour of installing all drivers unavailable from the manufacturer directly from Microsoft, the chipset “driver” is something special, being only a descriptor exactly for the sort of issues you encounter. The Intel Chipset descriptor is as good or better than those provided by Microsoft, based on the assumption that you select the correct one. This is where Microsoft provided ones become handy, they do the selection for you.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #127123 Reply
            radosuaf
            AskWoody Lounger

            Lenovo calls the drivers “Wolfson audio”, so I suppose it’s 3rd party.

            MSI H110 PC MATE * Intel Core i5-6402P * 2 x 8 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2133 MHz * Aorus Radeon RX 570 4GB * Samsung 840 EVO 250GB SSD * Western Digital Blue 1TB HDD * Seagate Barracuda 1TB HDD * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer PCI * Windows 10 Pro 2004 64-bit
            • #127140 Reply
              ch100
              AskWoody_MVP

              In device manager, right-click on the problem device and get the hardware ID.
              Do a search for drivers in Google and in the Microsoft Update Catalog.
              The important one is the one immediately under the one with revision.

              • #127148 Reply
                anonymous
                Guest

                The problem, as described, indicated no problem devices were detected.  That could make it difficult to get hardware IDs or install drivers.

          • #127192 Reply
            radosuaf
            AskWoody Lounger

            I tried all 3 options:

            a/ upgrading 1607 installation

            b/ installing by double-clicking setup.exe

            c/ installing from the USB installer with deleting all the partitions and clean install

            While a/ and b/ hung the tablet during chipset files installation, when I clean installed from scratch and installed drivers from Lenovo site everything seems to be working fine!

            MSI H110 PC MATE * Intel Core i5-6402P * 2 x 8 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2133 MHz * Aorus Radeon RX 570 4GB * Samsung 840 EVO 250GB SSD * Western Digital Blue 1TB HDD * Seagate Barracuda 1TB HDD * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer PCI * Windows 10 Pro 2004 64-bit
            2 users thanked author for this post.
            • #127196 Reply
              JohnW
              AskWoody Plus

              Glad you got it working!  Sounds like the MS upgrade process is less than perfect when it comes to hardware detection…

              • #127197 Reply
                radosuaf
                AskWoody Lounger

                Funny thing is then when I used the b/ option I even lost Wi-Fi in the process and had to download the driver to my PC and transfer to tablet using the USB stick…

                MSI H110 PC MATE * Intel Core i5-6402P * 2 x 8 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2133 MHz * Aorus Radeon RX 570 4GB * Samsung 840 EVO 250GB SSD * Western Digital Blue 1TB HDD * Seagate Barracuda 1TB HDD * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer PCI * Windows 10 Pro 2004 64-bit
      • #127440 Reply
        CatoRenasci
        AskWoody Lounger

        I’m extremely wary of upgrades that make things worse…. I’m still on Win 10 pro v 1511, what are my realistic options for updating as safely and with as limited risk as possible?

        • #127445 Reply
          PKCano
          Da Boss

          It is impossible to answer your question without knowing anything about your system and it’s history.

          However, Win10 1511 EOL is not too far away. The best advice I can give you is BACK UP, BACK UP, BACK UP. Back up your data and make an image of your computer before you start. Get all your programs and drivers up to date because the old ones may not work on the newer OS.
          Then try an update through Windows update. If that fails, try a clean install. You will have to reinstall all the programs and restore your data. Worst case, you have an image to go back to the original.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #127452 Reply
            CatoRenasci
            AskWoody Lounger

            Thanks. I’m running a Lenovo T460p, i7 6820, 32G, 64bit Win10 Pro 1511, purchased 7/16, in a docking station with a pair of Dell P2415Q monitors, Intel hd 530 and Nvidia geforce 940MX graphics.

            • #127453 Reply
              PKCano
              Da Boss

              If you want to go the “clean install” route, you might try to find an ISO of Win10 1607. You may be able to even do an update saving all your data. 1607 be more stable than the Creators Updates 1703 at this point.

              • #127456 Reply
                CatoRenasci
                AskWoody Lounger

                Hmmm. Thank you.  I have a fair amount of professional software installed that’s a pain to reinstall – part of the reason I’m so slow to upgrade.  Where am I likely to find a clean ISO of 1607?

              • #127461 Reply
                PKCano
                Da Boss

                You will have to access this site from a non-Windows OS (Linux live DVD, Mac, Linux PC). I get routed here from a MAC. Pull down menu 0 Win10 AU.

                1 user thanked author for this post.
              • #127521 Reply
                BobbyB
                AskWoody Lounger

                @CatoRenasci if you need Win 10 1607 or any Ver of Win 10, Win 8.1 release 3 final check out Gunters web site here.

                Windows 10 Version 1703 ISO media refresh June 2017

                follow the instructions and link at the bottom, OBTW all the Office images are for restore/repair only. .img files handy if you have a broken Office install and no disk. 🙂

              • #127463 Reply
                b
                AskWoody Plus

                1607 be more stable than the Creators Updates 1703 at this point.

                How is 1703 unstable?

                Windows 10 Pro Version 2004: Group ASAP (chump/pioneer)

              • #127465 Reply
                PKCano
                Da Boss

                Where do you see “un”?

              • #127466 Reply
                b
                AskWoody Plus

                Is it possible to be more stable than a stable thing?

                In what way is 1703 less stable than 1607?

                Windows 10 Pro Version 2004: Group ASAP (chump/pioneer)

              • #127483 Reply
                AlexN
                AskWoody Lounger

                How would you like to buy a car that hasn’t had its brakes tested or its tires balanced?  1703 is still effectively in beta yet getting driven people’s throats anyhow.

                Fortran, C++, R, Python, Java, Matlab, HTML, CSS, etc.... coding is fun!
                A weatherman that can code

                2 users thanked author for this post.
              • #127541 Reply
                b
                AskWoody Plus

                Did your 1607 come with a certificate of safety?

                Windows 10 Pro Version 2004: Group ASAP (chump/pioneer)

              • #127640 Reply
                anonymous
                Guest

                @AlexN

                Yes, agree.
                There is no denying that Win 10 Home users are M$’s unpaid Beta-testers used by M$ to serve the richer Win 10 Pro & Ent folks. They are like unpaid drivers for prototype or test-cars.
                … Sometimes, they may be even used by M$ to be like crash-test Dummies or like driverless test-cars.

                3 users thanked author for this post.
              • #127668 Reply
                woody
                Da Boss

                Well, up until last night, 1703 had several dozen known, unpatched bugs. It isn’t a question of stability (arguable in either case), it’s a question of anointing CBB status while knowing full well that there’s a trove of bugs that haven’t been fixed.

                I’ll have an article on that topic in a few hours.

                3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #127447 Reply
          JohnW
          AskWoody Plus

          Install something like Macrium Reflect Free, to make a backup disk image of your boot drive onto an external USB drive.

          Then create the Macrium bootable rescue media onto a USB flash drive (WinPE based, creation wizard included), so you can boot the system in the rescue environment and restore your system to the exact same state as it was in when you made the disk image.

          I never update Windows without making an image first.

          Bottom line if you update now, you will go straight to the Creators Update 1703.

      • #127488 Reply
        Noel Carboni
        AskWoody_MVP

        Is it possible to be more stable than a stable thing?

        In what way is 1703 less stable than 1607?

        • I’ve personally seen Explorer windows just go blank. That didn’t happen with earlier Windows 10 versions.
        • I’ve personally seen the system just fail to automatically log on several times, even though I set it up through NetPLWiz to log on with my credentials whenever I boot it up. I did not see that behavior in earlier versions of Windows 10.

        And I’m just one person who occasionally boots up Windows 10 in a virtual machine as a curiosity and afterthought, maybe a few minutes a day, yet I’ve seen things degraded by v1703. Shall we start a list of complaints here about what others have seen?

        Oh, and let’s not forget to note the bugs that are not yet fixed in Windows 10 v1703, based on the information published (then pulled back) by Microsoft:

        (KB4032188) Windows 10 Build 15063.501 may be coming soon. Changelog revealed

        Is it possible to be more stable than a stable thing?

        In what way is 1703 less stable than 1607?

        It’s not lost that you’ve asked the question in the way a Marketeer (MIC… KEY…) or Legal Eagle (see Shakespeare for advice) would ask it. It assumes facts not in evidence.

        It should be incumbent on anyone who claims Windows 10 v1703 is “stable” to prove it, not the other way around. And oops, Microsoft laid off the system testers who had an actual prayer of proving it.

        -Noel

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #127494 Reply
          woody
          Da Boss

          In a normal universe, I’d probably say that you’re over-reacting. Once a build of Win10 has hit CBB, it should be pretty dern stable.

          But.

          Microsoft has a big bunch of bug fixes for 1703 waiting in the wings. They were released on July 28, then pulled almost immediately.

          Microsoft releases then yanks KB 4032188, a cumulative update for Creators Update, build 15063.501

          It’s an impressive list of known bugs.

          (KB4032188) Windows 10 Build 15063.501 may be coming soon. Changelog revealed

          2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #127502 Reply
            Noel Carboni
            AskWoody_MVP

            I suppose what we don’t know is how many of those bugs (or others) are in the prior versions of Windows. But we can infer…

            No one person could possibly use all of Windows’ features, but I can claim virtually perfect stability from Windows 7 and 8.1 right now. There have been recent runs of time where I haven’t even had to reboot those systems in the time when Windows 10 had two whole new builds.

            Just the fact that we’re here talking about v1703 going CBB after v1607 did so less than 6 months ago means Windows 10 is not “stable” by one quite important meaning of the word.

            -Noel

            4 users thanked author for this post.
        • #127573 Reply
          b
          AskWoody Plus

          And I’m just one person who occasionally boots up Windows 10 in a virtual machine as a curiosity and afterthought, maybe a few minutes a day, yet I’ve seen things degraded by v1703. Shall we start a list of complaints here about what others have seen?

          Why not? But does anyone else here spend more than a few minutes a day using 1703?

          Oh, and let’s not forget to note the bugs that are not yet fixed in Windows 10 v1703, based on the information published (then pulled back) by Microsoft:

          https://thewincentral.com/kb4032188-windows-10-build-15063-501-may-coming-soon-changelog-revealed/

          Which is the most critical of those?

          It’s not lost that you’ve asked the question in the way a Marketeer (MIC… KEY…) or Legal Eagle (see Shakespeare for advice) would ask it. It assumes facts not in evidence.

          I don’t see how my simple question assumes any facts.

          It should be incumbent on anyone who claims Windows 10 v1703 is “stable” to prove it, not the other way around.

          Why?

          No one person could possibly use all of Windows’ features, but I can claim virtually perfect stability from Windows 7 and 8.1 right now.

          And I can claim virtual perfect stability using 1703 on various computers for 10 hours each day for three months.

          Windows 10 Pro Version 2004: Group ASAP (chump/pioneer)

          • #127633 Reply
            Noel Carboni
            AskWoody_MVP

            Ah, so we have a definition problem. No less than an attempt to redefine the meaning of “stable”. Right in line with Microsoft’s other efforts.

            Windows is too complicated a system to get all the bugs out and be made stable in an acceptable meaning of the word in mere months. It has always taken years to stabilize, and it always will.

            There are good reasons why conscientious people smarter than you and I always made a practice out of waiting until at least Service Pack 1 before considering moving critical systems up to a new version. And no, I don’t consider new Windows 10 builds to be like service packs.

            Now we have constant design change, on purpose, and the end of support date for any given build is mere months away. These things simply don’t go with the concept of an operating system being the cornerstone for everything. It’s like trying to build on quicksand.

            Microsoft’s 6 month build and release schedule has crossed well over the line into ridiculousness.

            To those who know something about software and history and maybe even a little about these wonderfully imperfect blobs of goo we call “humans”, the things I’ve described are self-evident.

            -Noel

            1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #127669 Reply
              woody
              Da Boss

              OK, guys. With that, I’ll cut off the argument.

              More light, less heat, please.

            • #127711 Reply
              JohnW
              AskWoody Plus

              I would prefer to see Microsoft return to a longer release schedule and focus on a stable OS, rather than feature creep.  And provide support for existing releases for several years, not months…

              And while they are at it, how about re-hiring the internal QA team?

              3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #127655 Reply
          MrBrian
          AskWoody_MVP

          Wouldn’t it be interesting to see a Windows 10 changelog that’s as detailed as Firefox’s? Example: Firefox 54 had 3924 changes.

          2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #127489 Reply
        JohnW
        AskWoody Plus

        It should be incumbent on anyone who claims Windows 10 v1703 is “stable” to prove it, not the other way around.

        ^^^ What he said!!!

        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #127505 Reply
        JohnW
        AskWoody Plus

        I imagine Microsoft thinks such outdated systems should just be thrown away; after all they have shiny new ones all glued together and for sale. -Noel

        I think that “glued” is the actual keyword here!  🙂

        TL/DR;

        This laptop is not meant to be opened or repaired; you can’t get inside without inflicting a lot of damage.

        https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Microsoft+Surface+Laptop+Teardown/92915

        7 users thanked author for this post.
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