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  • Microsoft sends cease and desist warnings to Store software publishers with “Windows” in their names

    Home Forums AskWoody blog Microsoft sends cease and desist warnings to Store software publishers with “Windows” in their names

    This topic contains 37 replies, has 17 voices, and was last updated by  OscarCP 2 days, 3 hours ago.

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    • #166783 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      I saw this over the weekend from Günter Born. He lists two specific apps that received “infringing app” notices, and many others apparently have been
      [See the full post at: Microsoft sends cease and desist warnings to Store software publishers with “Windows” in their names]

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #166784 Reply

      MrJimPhelps
      AskWoody MVP

      I am reminded of an article by Jack Wallen which appeared four years ago in Tech Republic, entitled “Microsoft loses yet another fanboy” (http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/linux-and-open-source/microsoft-loses-yet-another-fanboy/). The current story is basically the same as the story described by Jack Wallen.

      A very intuitive quote from the article: “Many of us have been saying this moment was inevitable. At some point we saw the binary on the wall — Microsoft was going to burn the one bridge it couldn’t afford to burn — the one between Redmond and the legion of fanboys.”

      4 users thanked author for this post.
      • #166787 Reply

        Cybertooth
        AskWoody Lounger

        @mrjimphelps: I was not aware of these absurd licensing terms for Office 2013. Glad I never got that version.

        • #166822 Reply

          MrJimPhelps
          AskWoody MVP

          @mrjimphelps: I was not aware of these absurd licensing terms for Office 2013. Glad I never got that version.

          I’m still not aware of them. The reason I linked to the Jack Wallen article is because of his overall point of Microsoft’s non-customer-friendly approach to its customers.

    • #166800 Reply

      Noel Carboni
      AskWoody MVP

      Microsoft has lost the love of virtually all its long-standing supporters, myself included.

      They simply can’t do “selfish”, some would say “malicious”, and especially “stupid” for years and expect to be respected by anyone with two brain cells to fire together.

      Isn’t it obvious?

      They clearly no longer want to be respected, trusted, or loved.

      Presumably someone(s) has/have decided that those concepts are holding back their profits.

      THAT is a shame, because value is not all or always tangible. In the real world, things like “trust” and “respect” are actually worth a great deal, and lo and behold these things are very human concepts developed precisely to prevent bad things from being done to others.

      -Noel

      • #167588 Reply

        OscarCP
        AskWoody Lounger

        Noel Carboni: “They simply can’t do “selfish”, some would say “malicious”, and especially “stupid” for years and expect to be respected by anyone with two brain cells to fire together.

        I would agree with “stupid”, and go further by adding “delusional” as in “too many underlings brown nosing the selfish, malicious, stupid and delusional bosses who are convinced they are the divinely inspired apex predators in a world of sheep” (with some apologies there to John Scalzi) to the list of epithets. It couldn’t hurt.

        • #167627 Reply

          GoneToPlaid
          AskWoody Lounger

          I would add that delusional behavior percolates from the top down.

    • #166801 Reply

      Jan K.
      AskWoody Lounger

      Should they run out of names to threat and sue, here’s a starters list… http://www.replacementwindowsfordummies.com/articles/top-25-energy-efficient-window-manufacturers

      Some samples from the list…

      AMSCO Windows
      Andersen Windows
      Atrium Windows
      Champion Window Mfg.
      Crestline Windows and Doors
      Crystal Window & Door Systems, LTD.
      Hurd Windows and Doors
      Jeld-Wen Windows and Doors
      Kolbe Windows & Doors
      Marvin Windows and Doors
      Milgard Windows
      MI Windows and Doors
      Ply Gem Windows
      Simonton Windows
      Soft-Lite Windows
      Sunrise Windows
      Vinylmax Windows LLC
      Windsor Windows

      My favorites are Soft-Lite Windows and Vinylmax Windows. How dare they!

      Sigh… the bigger you are, the lower you will go?

      12 users thanked author for this post.
      • #167450 Reply

        anonymous

        The Vinylmax windows fit in with their “fluent design” & use of “acrylic” windows texture. 🙂

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #166811 Reply

      Ascaris
      AskWoody Lounger

      It almost seems like MS is trying to alienate their own users/developers/fans, and it’s like Deja Vu all over again when I say that.  MS going after one of the relatively few developers to write an app for the Windows/MS/whatever Store, which is supposedly what MS wants?  That ought to make any other developers think twice about supporting such a capricious and vindictive company in their eponymous store.  It would be a different story if we were talking about something like Play or App Store; that’s where every dev for the respective platforms needs to be, so Google and Apple can just about make up any terms they wish.  Microsoft does not have such luxury, and if any devs were on the fence about committing to the MS Store, this is not going to help.

      Again, I find myself thinking that if Google, Apple, or even some free software group was to somehow get a double agent installed as Microsoft CEO, I can’t think of what he’d be doing differently to wreck Windows than what is actually happening. They’re not stupid at Microsoft, so I am finding it difficult to believe that they are this clumsy and clueless.  They’ve been the bull in the china shop ever since Nadella came on board… surely this has to be intentional.

       

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      • #166833 Reply

        Cybertooth
        AskWoody Lounger

        @ascaris:

        It almost seems like MS is trying to alienate their own users/developers/fans, and it’s like Deja Vu all over again when I say that.  MS going after one of the relatively few developers to write an app for the Windows/MS/whatever Store, which is supposedly what MS wants?  That ought to make any other developers think twice about supporting such a capricious and vindictive company in their eponymous store.

        It’s probably the trademark lawyers’ doing. IP lawyers are not known for their strategic thinking. I listen to the podcasts of a couple of popular radio talk shows. Some years ago, the podcasts stopped playing the bumper music that goes on at the start and end of each hour because the copyright lawyers were demanding too much royalty $$$ to make the music snippets worth including in the podcast version.

        I used to buy songs that I heard and liked on the bumper music in the podcast, but not any more since I don’t know what it sounds like. Lost sales to the artist and to the record company, thanks to the lawyers.

         

        • This reply was modified 5 days, 1 hour ago by  Cybertooth.
        4 users thanked author for this post.
        • #167493 Reply

          anonymous

          I agree that this one is being driven by the lawyers.

          I remember that a number of years ago, the US Olympic Committee was trying after businesses that have “Olympic” in their name, for trademark infringement including ones located on Olympic Bl in Los Angeles, and in proximity to the Olympic National Park in Washington State.

          For good measure, remember that IBM has trademarked the color blue, and UPS has trademarked the color brown.

          2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #167043 Reply

        anonymous

        That was exactly where I was going to take this.  Literally glass real world windows makers being told they can no longer use the name.  Wouldn’t the converse also be the same?  Windows makers suing Microsoft for a name.  I think we all agree here this is low and apparently improving their software is not high on their priorities, however picking frivolous fights is.  Hoping this is the beginning of the end or alternatively they wake up.

      • #167596 Reply

        OscarCP
        AskWoody Lounger

        Ascaris: “They’re not stupid at Microsoft, so I am finding it difficult to believe that they are this clumsy and clueless.

        Ascaris, I think you are just being too nice. For my part, I have no trouble believing that such is, at the very least, a distinct possibility. Having great wealth, inflated self-regard and often undeserved power drives a certain kind of people to do silly, damaging things based on what they believe are their own brilliant ideas, because they can, and can get away with it. I doubt that most people at MS fall in that category — but it suffices with just those that count when deciding which way the company is supposed to go.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #166825 Reply

      MrJimPhelps
      AskWoody MVP

      I would REALLY like to hear Bill Gates’ or Paul Allen’s honest take on what Microsoft is currently doing. If they would be honest, I’ll bet they are horrified at what Nadella is doing.

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #166843 Reply

      WildBill
      AskWoody Lounger

      Gunter is spot on, not only with Microsoft’s heavy-handedness with developers, but the hilariousness of the lawyers. Sending C&D letters to have people remove apps with ‘Windows’ in the name from the Windows Microsoft Store… LOL! He also makes me wonder how many “free” apps in that Store are nothing more than scraping content from websites via built-in RSS feeds.

      As for Jack Wallen’s article almost 5 years ago on Microsoft losing fanboys/fangirls over their business practices (thanks, MrJimPhelps), over 2.5 years of Windows 10 has probably made the emigration worse. When I got my ASUS laptop 5 years ago, I was a Microsoft fanboy. Had used Office 2003 on jobs in 2004/2005; when I got my 1st laptop, not sure if it had 2003 or 2007. If Office 2007, didn’t pay attention to the Ribbon interface. When I got my Windows 8 laptop, I had Office 2013 Home & Student installed on it. I didn’t have problems with the licensing terms, since this would be my personal computer. Tie Office to a Microsoft Account? Check. Tie a maximum of 5 licenses to 1 MS Account? Fine, I only needed 1 license; Check. Tie license to a single machine? As in, if my new PC breaks, buy a new machine AND a new copy of Office?! Err… Check.

      Since I knew Windows 8 was new, I knew I needed a good (& entertaining) reference. Before I bothered trying to use Windows 8, I went to a friendly big-box bookstore & purchased “Windows 8 All-in-One for Dummies”. That’s when my ‘relationship’ began with Woody Leonhard. Though I was all-in on Windows & Internet Explorer 11 (the tiled AKA Metro version was interesting, but a bit tricky at 1st), I appreciated Woody’s honesty & ability to help me negotiate Windows Jekyll & Hyde… oops, Windows 8. I took a lot of his advice through those pages, especially controlling Windows Update.

      Not too long after, I discovered AskWoody dot com. It made me realize that even in the pre-Win 10 era, Microsoft could still screw up OS updates… & consumers & businesses… Big-Time. I believe I only got bit by BSOD’s for a short time, but with Woody’s advice in print & online, I survived. For the 1st year or 2, even through Windows 8 SP1… err, Windows 8.1… I kept my PC in good shape, thanks to Woody & all the MVP’s here. Either sometime in the 2nd year or year & a half, this website warned me about IE 11 not only slowing down, but being vulnerable to exploits, especially through Flash & Java. Knowing Google had its googly eyes on my data, I switched my browser to Firefox. I was still anticipating Windows 10 in July 2015 (Free Upgrade! Edge! Start Menu back! Cortana! *swoon*), but I knew I could depend on AskWoody to tell me the truth & expose any problems.

      Fast forward to February 2018. Windows 10 has four versions (in Home & Pro flavors), all prone to be as buggy (or worse) than 10 Roach Motels. Microsoft Edge; supposed to be a brand-new browser, but seems to be based on IE 11 & has more bugs & problems than its predecessor. “Edge” sounded hipper & cooler than “Internet Explorer 12”. Cortana? Meh… to basically keep her from snooping or storing search data, you have to turn her off. Yes, you can delete her Notebook data; that’s like clearing browser history & cookies. You should do it, but you don’t do it often enough. Meanwhile, even if I pay extra to upgrade to Windows 10 Pro to have some control over updates, it doesn’t seem to be guaranteed. & patches coming through Windows Update still break; some months (like January) they break more often than others. Thank you, Woody, for MS-DEFCON!

      Looking into the future: As I’ve said elsewhere, unless Windows 10 finally becomes stable enough that I don’t jump every time a patch comes down the WU pipe, and I trust Microsoft enough with my data, hardware & money, I’ll wave bye-bye to Redmond in 2023. Will I say hello to Cupertino, Siri & Apple? Or will I find a flavor of Linux that’s tasty enough & open source software that I can depend on? As for voice assistants… hello, Mycroft Mark III or IV?

      Wild Bill Rides Again...

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      • #166858 Reply

        MrJimPhelps
        AskWoody MVP

        Wild Bill:

        Have you tried any of the Linux distros? I suggest that you visit http://www.linuxmint.com and download one of the distros listed there. (I have 64-bit xfce.) You could use the download to create either a Linux Live DVD or a Linux Live flash drive, then give it a try, just to see what you think about it.

        The flash drive option would give you the ability to save any changes you make to the flash drive, so that you will still have them the next time you run Linux Live.

        By trying it out now, you won’t have to wait till the decision is forced on you.

        I have entirely switched to Linux Mint, with Windows 8.1 available in a virtual machine for those few things I am unable to do in Linux. I rarely go to the VM; I can do just about everything in Linux. But the VM gives you a valid way to switch to Linux without burning all bridges to Windows.

        Jim

        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #166939 Reply

          WildBill
          AskWoody Lounger

          MrJim, I’m not quite ready to download a distro, Linux Mint or something else. Thanks for the advice of downloading it to a USB drive; at this point, I’ll start gathering information for Linux & certain Macs. With 6 months to a year & a half to go, I’ll make a decision in that timeframe. As I’ve said elsewhere, I still want to give Windows 10 a chance; if things don’t improve in the next 3 years, that chance gets slimmer & slimmer.

          Wild Bill Rides Again...

          • #166971 Reply

            lurks about
            AskWoody Lounger

            Wild Bill, you are following a path that many of us have trod in the last few years as MS became more obnoxious from a loyal customer to evaluating options to former customer. The key point you are making is there are too many Windows users like you who are very wary of the future with good reason. Some will stay with Windows while holding their noses from the stench as they have some excellent reason to remain. Others can and will leave as they do not have anything that binds them tightly to Windows. Neither is going to be happy with MS.

            2 users thanked author for this post.
            • #166977 Reply

              WildBill
              AskWoody Lounger

              The key point you are making is there are too many Windows users like you who are very wary of the future with good reason. Some will stay with Windows while holding their noses from the stench as they have some excellent reason to remain.

              As you said, lurks about, users like me are very wary. Waiting over 2.5 years for Windows 10 to ‘stabilize’ & still not feeling it has doesn’t inspire confidence. Those ‘holding their noses’ while staying are doing so for business reasons, or they don’t have the power to make changes. They can make recommendations, but those in IT who make the ultimate decisions are usually locked into Windows. Even if they’re suffering, the cost of switching to another platform & training employees on it is usually prohibitive.

              Wild Bill Rides Again...

              2 users thanked author for this post.
            • #167024 Reply

              Ascaris
              AskWoody Lounger

              As I see it, 2.5 years is more than enough time for MS to stabilize Windows 10 (end the permanent beta state) or to begin to push it in a less user-hostile direction, but they’ve steadfastly refused to do that.  By now, they know what people find distasteful about Windows 10, and they make it clear that they have no intent to fix any of it.  I too held out hope that one day Windows 10 may be something I want, but that time ended nearly two years ago.

              Maybe I’m just more cynical, but in the two years following that decision, I haven’t seen anything that would indicate I was hasty in giving up on Windows 10. I didn’t want to give up on “the last version of Windows ever,” since that would mean also giving up on the Windows platform as a whole, but it is what it is.  Windows has been my “home” for more than a quarter of a century, and while Windows has never been perfect, it’s been better than the stereotype for a good many of those years.  You know, the one where people say that no one uses Windows because they like it, but only because they have to?  From Windows 95 forward, that wasn’t true for me.  It wasn’t perfect, but I still thought (and I stand by this to this day) that it was better than the alternatives available at the time.

              It wasn’t until the era of Nadella, the guy who said he wanted people to use Windows because they love Windows, not because they have to, that Windows (as currently developed) got so bad that it went from my top choice in a desktop OS to the absolute bottom one.

              I’d like to be able to hold out hope that Windows will someday become decent again, but that would only get in the way of me seeing the big picture in a way that allows me to start to deal with the new reality.  That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t re-evaluate if Windows 10 did, against all odds, begin to evolve into something I’d want, but I am no longer in a wait and see mode. Like the wise old Chinese guy in one of those Herbie movies (the real ones, sans LiLo) said, “When the story is over, close the book.”

              5 users thanked author for this post.
        • #166933 Reply

          anonymous

          I vouch for MrJimPhelps’ words.

          When Vista came out, I suspected immediately that no good would come out of MS after that and boy was I right for all these years.

          A friend came to me with a Linux Mint 7 (perhaps 6?) CD and I made a dual boot with XP. I had 3 years with some forth and back frustrations on both sides (I got caught in the middle of the GUIs renovations, with the death of Gnome 2, the buggy beginning of Gnome 3, Unity, MATE, Cinnamon, LXDE and XFCE).

          After 3 years I could do pretty much on Linux, including running Photoshop (even faster than in Windows because it would scratch the HDD for temp files while Linux used RAM).

          Now after 10 years I am at home with LMDE2 both MATE and Cinnamon and I look back to realize I’ve dodged not a bullet from Microsoft, but a huge canon ball made out of feces and blue screens.

          So my piece of advice, @wildbill, is give a casual look at some Linux distro and start playing around nice and easy with no stress, getting practice and slowly preparing for your migration away from Redmond. Take your time, even years if you need it, and you will save yourself a lot of frustrations – plural. (just to have an idea, I refuse to use Windows 10 (even at the university) and I read Windows 10’s miseries in here just for ‘fun’, sighs and head nodding)

          4 users thanked author for this post.
          • #167159 Reply

            OscarCP
            AskWoody Lounger

            This is in response to some comments in this same forum by Wild Bill and others regarding current operating systems that might be a good idea to switch over to, if someone wants to give up on Windows.

            I started with Windows 98, and that one used to crash one or more times every day.

            I waited for the next version, based on Win NT – 2000, which was Win XP. That one, as NT, was considerably more stable, as it crashed maybe once a month. Then came Win Vista, which was not terribly well received. So I waited until the next version came out, which was Win 7. This one crashes maybe twice a year. Still on Win 7, having passed on the 8 and 8.1 versions, as they didn’t seem to have anything new that would interest me (and the design of the GUI of 8 was just a plain obstacle to doing what I needed to do).

            So: one bad Windows or two, then an OK one: that was the pattern. But, unless Mt. Rainier takes matters into its own, uh, hands, and unless then MS starts from scratch all over again (too many “unleses”), I see no new good Windows coming along, sometime in the future.

            I got last year, as a present, a nice new Mac and have had no problems with it. For someone wanting to also use LINUX some day, it does not hurt that the command line is for a Unix-like system like LINUX, so people can practice on the user-friendly Mac much of what they’ll need to know to use a LINUX machine day in and day out.

            An alternative I have used myself, still within the Windows Universe is Cygwin: a LINUX emulation that runs on Windows. It is OK, although, being an emulation, it tends to run rather slowly.

            According to the Cygwin Web site: “The Cygwin DLL currently works with all recent, commercially released x86 32 bit and 64 bit versions of Windows, starting with Windows Vista.”

            Full disclosure: The first PCs I used, and for a long time, were Macs. I switched to Win 98 because the Navy had adopted Windows and I was doing a lot of work for some people at  a Navy Lab. However, the Mac OS these days has nothing to do with the one back then. The current OS is an inheritance from Jobs when he left Apple and started a new company, making computers than run on NeXT, the name of both the company and the OS. NeXT was the proto-Mac OS X, or just plain “OS” nowadays.

            • This reply was modified 3 days, 23 hours ago by  OscarCP.
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    • #166879 Reply

      anonymous

      Woody, I have been wondering when you will get around to reviewing alternatives to MS OS, and write some tutorials for transiting.

    • #166882 Reply

      PKCano
      AskWoody MVP

      Woody, I have been wondering when you will get around to reviewing alternatives to MS OS, and write some tutorials for transiting.

      Already have topics on other OS.

      See other platforms for Windows Wonks

      5 users thanked author for this post.
    • #166913 Reply

      anonymous

      Rectangular with rounded corners. Apple believed they owned that shape even though it is base geometry; curves and rectangles. They tried to patent it and their hubris resulted in the brand and the executives being mocked four ways to Sunday. They deserved it.

      I respectfully disagree with other posters who say that this meat-head decision from Microsoft will erode their base. Fanboys have a filter that the rest of us do not. Apple did not lose their base when they went ‘Swamp Creature’ and I believe the same will go for Microsoft.

      ‘Sorry, I don’t do Windows’ is being heard more often now, especially from the expats. I would never categorize these users of having been fanboys. They were customers who found value in what Windows had to offer. They endured the ups and downs but always had high expectations. It is the lowering of expectations that has lead to the exodus.

      The developers have contributed to making Windows more usable, more efficient and more effective. On having received that threatening ultimatum from Microsoft over the weekend, I expect few will now remain loyal to Microsoft. Loyalty has to be earned. Bullying will not make it happen.

      3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #166921 Reply

      OscarCP
      AskWoody Lounger

      ‘Windows’ my be a TM, but it would seem unlikely for ‘windows’ to be one as well, as that probably would create the need to send an immense number of notices.  And, if by any chance, ‘windows’ was also a TM, most likely ‘Windowz’ is not. Or any other alteration that still gets the message through: “this is about ‘Windows’!

      So, when changing URL, if they are truly forced to do that, people could resort to such  transparent ruses, could they not?

      Still, this is a good example of company lawyers’ craziness percolating upwards to receptive layers of management. And a very annoying one too, as it will force lots of people, some doing really useful work that has, by and large, served MS’ own interests quite well, into a lot of busy work (plus probably some otherwise unnecessary expenses) when they got better things to do.

       

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #166948 Reply

      wdburt1
      AskWoody Lounger

      and lo and behold these things are very human concepts developed precisely to prevent bad things from being done to others. -Noel

      Sounds like something Bill Gates would say, and expect his audience to believe.

      Surely NOT Steve Ballmer, and NOT Satya Nadella.

      • This reply was modified 4 days, 19 hours ago by  wdburt1.
      • This reply was modified 4 days, 19 hours ago by  wdburt1.
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    • #166986 Reply

      anonymous

      Power Potato, a now dead trademark Microsoft acquired from WebTV Networks. (Yes, it is real trademark!)

      • #166995 Reply

        Kirsty
        AskWoody MVP

        Yes, it is real trademark!

        Ah, no, it doesn’t appear it is a “real trademark”. It was a genuine application, which according to your link, was abandoned approx. 20 years ago…

        • #167462 Reply

          anonymous

          You think I don’t know of what I type? The error is yours. Do the research yourself, since it is forbidden to provide a deep link or perform automated queries with the trademark database.

          It was a real trademark (one of 26) by the now defunct WebTV networks. Go to uspto.gov

    • #167077 Reply

      AlexEiffel
      AskWoody Lounger

      I think we should not read too much into this from Microsoft.

      This probably comes from a genuine desire to get rid of the bad apps in their abysmal app store that impersonate Microsoft or use their names or logos to fool users. These apps are bad for users.

      The problem lies in the execution. They probably outsourced the job to a trademark firm and those folks don’t discriminate between good intent and bad one. They might just get paid by the amount of apps they get rid of or something. Still, bad management and it will continue to damage them.

       

      4 users thanked author for this post.
    • #167258 Reply

      Cartoonist Aaron
      AskWoody Lounger

      First off, less than one day to comply, on a weekend, is crazy.

      Part of trademark law is the idea that a trademarks prevent confusion as to who made a related product. So “windows” used in reference to those glass things on your house isn’t protected by MS’s trademark. But “Windows” used in reference to computing is protected, so when people see “Windows” it means something MS is involved with. Theoretically. Like Woody said, “window” is a common computer term. But, depending on the context, “Windows” = MS. And if a trademark gets used too much, it can become generic and not trademark-able. (Like Aspirin or Teleprompter)

      This situation is sort of like fan art at a comic convention. (Artists selling original drawings of famous characters) It’s a grey legal issue at best, but Marvel, DC, etc. seem to ignore it because it would really anger the fan base if they cracked down on it. It sounds like MS angered their fan base here, though “fan” may be a strong word these days. I’m not familiar with Dr. Windows, but the bigger problem MS has is that Windows needs a doctor.

      (also, not a lawyer, not legal advise, batteries not included, etc.)

      6 users thanked author for this post.
      • #167633 Reply

        GoneToPlaid
        AskWoody Lounger

        Your last paragraph does seem to hit the nail on the head in terms of what line, however how somewhat vague, that Microsoft should have not have crossed if Microsoft was truly interested in keeping their third party developer fan base. This appears to be yet another case of Microsoft shooting itself in the foot, without Microsoft realizing that they just did this and simply because nobody at Microsoft with a sane mind took the time to “think it through” in terms of the potential repercussions and how these potential repercussions could affect their business.

        I really do wish that Steve Ballmer would come back and replace Satya Nadella as CEO of Microsoft. Ballmer gave us Windows 7 which so many of us dearly love. Ballmer was heavily criticized for missing the boat with regards to mobile, yet the boat had already been missed several years before. Steven Sinovsky was a disaster for Microsoft with his Windows 8 vision that the new Windows 8 OS should be “clean” looking and that how to actually use the original Windows 8 OS should “learned” over time, as if the new OS was to be a completely new “experience” instead of what it should have been — an easily adopted upgrade and transition. The upshot is that people such as Sinovsky, who clearly exhibit delusional thinking, are very capable of convincing others that their delusional thinking is the correct path to follow. In other words, such people usually are very good at convincing others to follow them. Need I say more, without getting into either religion or politics?

        Back to my main topic…

        I pray that the following was worth reading, after you have read the following.

        At least Ballmer never appeared to suffer from delusional behavior. History shows that Ballmer always thought logically instead of delusionally. And history shows that Ballmer did care about what Microsoft’s customers were demanding — something better than Windows Vista. Ballmer delivered in spades with Windows 7. Many argued that Ballmer missed the boat with regards to mobile. Yet it is now abundantly clear that the Windows for everything approach, including the Continuum thing, just was not a practical approach since these are two completely different ecosystems which, at least not yet, can merge into one ecosystem for various reasons.

        The upshot is that Microsoft has done what Microsoft should have never done — shoot its core cash cow, Windows for desktops and laptops, in the foot. You never shoot the cash cow — not ever — unless it it is already abundantly clear that the cash cow is already dead or dying. Yet this is exactly what Microsoft did when Microsoft introduced Windows 8. Windows 8’s development was exclusively controlled by Sinovsky and with virtually no oversight from above. Sinovsky was given and had total free reign. Sinovsky is completely responsible for killing the Microsoft Windows cash cow. Microsoft has struggled to find ways to recover, and yet at the same time Microsoft never admitted their mistakes in any kind of timely fashion regarding Windows 8 and even with Windows 8.1, since admitting their mistakes would have had enormous repercussions on their stock value. As I see it, this is what it is.

        And then of course, Microsoft announced the development of Windows 10, and that Windows 10’s development would be based on feedback and recommendations from beta testers. Wow! This sounded really peachy to everyone. Yet a new CEO had become in charge of Microsoft — Satya Nadella. No matter how good the progress and beta tester feedback was looking for Windows 10, and news of such helped to buoy Microsoft’s stocks, Nadella made sure that deep telemetry would be baked into Windows 10 so that the Windows 10 operating system itself would present advertising to all users of this new Windows operating system. Why? Because of Microsoft’s ongoing war against Google (users can readily decide whether or not to use any Google products and services in order to avoid telemetry), versus Microsoft (where users of Microsoft’s new Windows 10 were initially given no choice with regards to telemetry) and for subsequently presented advertising which is delivered by the operating system itself.

        In other words, Nadella decided that all Microsoft Windows users should become plebeians (commoners and slaves) in Microsoft’s war against Google, since Microsoft’s desire was to become the most powerful advertising platform (versus Google) in terms of both delivering online advertising and in terms of overall advertising revenue. Nadella decided to make all Windows users his pawns in this war against Google. And Nadella decided to use Windows in conjunction with every Windows user’s own personal computers in order to accomplish this goal. This is what it is.

        Do you think that anything will ever come of this?

        No, I think. Why do I say this? Given that the latest news is that there will apparently be no charges which will be pursued against Equifax who is the subject of what is the largest data breach in online history and in which sensitive data for virtually all US citizens was breached, I figure that new precedent has now been arguably carved in stone in terms of any cloud services as well. While Nadella has heavily bet on cloud services, as in totally “all-in”, I strongly suspect that the “cloud world” is about to crash. After all, any corporation would now be a fool to not only trust that their corporate data, stored in the cloud by a third party, will not be breached, or that there will be any clear cut remedies in court should such a data breach actually occur. Given the current Meltdown and Spectre vulnerabilities which affect Intel CPUs which have been manufactured during the last 20 years, and given the newly published alternative attack methods for exploiting these two vulnerabilities, it seems to me that hosting sensitive corporate data via third party cloud providers is now an insane idea.

        Move all of the above to a new forum thread or post. Delete my post if you all do not think that it isn’t tangentially relevant in any way to the actual topic at hand. I don’t care, yet at least I said what I felt that I needed to say.

         

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        • #167642 Reply

          OscarCP
          AskWoody Lounger

          The upshot is that people such as Sinovsky, who clearly exhibit delusional thinking, are very capable of convincing others that their delusional thinking is the correct path to follow. In other words, such people usually are very good at convincing others to follow them. Need I say more, without getting into either religion or politics?

          No need to go there: this is about the Boss of All Bosses at a big corporation, which makes such a person a celebrity with a huge megaphone. Not to mention all the helpful contacts in high places with like-minded individuals. It does not take a lot of clever effort for such a person, with even a minimum of social skills, to convince others that he or she must be right. Most people will lift their eyes momentarily from whatever they are doing and think: “What? That sounds silly. But wait: he is The Man at MS, MS is a really big outfit, and one does not get to be The Man at a really big outfit by being silly. So he must be right.”, and back to whatever they were doing.

          As to moving comments to a new thread or deleting them: no need. This is exactly the right thread and this is exactly the right time for this type of comments, after the slow train wreck playing out over the past month.

          • This reply was modified 2 days, 4 hours ago by  OscarCP.
          • This reply was modified 2 days, 3 hours ago by  OscarCP.
        • #167651 Reply

          AlexEiffel
          AskWoody Lounger

          Very interesting thoughts.

          Regarding the ability of those “visionaries” to convince everyone around they are the one seeing the future, I think that Nadella is exactly that type. He made a good impression on me at first because the things that are said are well said and in a manner that instill trust and that seems to show good intentions. I thought Microsoft did lots of mistakes with 8, but that Nadella was going in the right direction when they announced Windows One, listening to feedback, pushing an Edge browser that seemed built on sound ideas compared to IE (respect of standards, focus on security instead of ability to break the web barrier and run stuff locally, no bloat philosophy). I thought Edge was a work in progress that would maybe become something interesting, an alternative to the good but privacy invading Chrome. I was happy to see improvements announced for power users like the Win-X menu, copy-paste in command prompte, etc. I thought Windows was going to be more polished, cleaned of its old stuff, but would retain what makes it great and would be just made better.

          But then, I quickly realized that whatever the intentions are, good or bad, there is so much that isn’t working and that Nadella stubbornly ignores, keeping its ship towards a cloud only future that he believes is the only future. I was baffled by so many stupid decisions that did make sense only if you had disdain for what users want and only considered the self interest of the company.

          I still am impressed when I see the tone of the insider newsletter. They almost (well, not really) make me believe something great is happening here to the best OS ever when they talk about how the feedback made them do this or that. But the sad reality is very different.

          Maybe Nadella truly believes his approach is good for everyone. I don’t know. I can imagine he could be very convincing to people around him. Unfortunately, it fails the real world test big time and I just sincerely hope he gets the boot at least once a day, however nice he might be.

           

          3 users thanked author for this post.
          • #167672 Reply

            OscarCP
            AskWoody Lounger

            I was baffled by so many stupid decisions that did make sense only if you had disdain for what users want and only considered the self interest of the company.

            Not even that. While, to some, ascending to The Cloud might look like taking must-have insurance against the perils of an onrushing future, for the good of the company, to others it might look as something likely to become an albatross, and sooner rather than later. Quote “Tulip Mania”, quote “DotCom Bubble”, quote “Bitcoin”?

            • This reply was modified 2 days, 3 hours ago by  OscarCP.
            2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #167646 Reply

      ax kramer
      AskWoody Lounger

      And as I recall IBM tried to take over the color BLUE. Did not MS itself lose out on SKY and METRO? Since I do not believe that the word “crazy” has been copyrighted yet, I am going to claim it as an apt description of them all. And now I am off to shop at a local business called the “Door and Window Store”. I will take the local Metro transit bus to do so under a cloudless sky. Or is CLOUD…

      5 users thanked author for this post.

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