Microsoft setting the ball for Windows 12 as it begins adding Cloud PC

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Microsoft slowly setting the ball rolling for Windows 12 as it begins adding Cloud PC option

..Things is still being added and tweaked, and the latest improvement brings an option to switch to a Cloud PC. There will be two ways to access it, a full-screen desktop via Task View, or as an App window. Options to add accessories and ports to the Cloud PC have also been added. Hence, users may not need a dedicated app. The latest Dev build 23419 enables these options via the new “settingshandlers_cloudpc” DLL file (spotted by Xeno on Twitter)…

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Cybertooth, TechTango

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So they intend to take us back to the glory days of ole where “dumb terminals” were how you used a computer, but with a special Microsoft modification… you’ll have to pay a subscription fee to access/use your “PC in the cloud” from your now dumb computer.

No thank you!

If this actually comes to pass, I predict…

A sudden massive switch over to Linux OS’s by both home and business users who’d have to deal with the cost of all those subscriptions!

All the PC and support H/W manufacturers will team up to fight it “tooth and nail” since it’d pretty much kill their whole market.

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gwt10, SueW, Cybertooth, Mothy

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It’s been “the year of the Linux desktop” every year for 25 years!

Windows 11 Pro version 22H2 build 22621.1778 + Microsoft 365 + Edge

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bmeacham, wavy

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alejr wrote:

A sudden massive switch over to Linux OS’s by both home and business users

Linux holds a sizable share of the internet back plane.  That’s because web hosting companies employ practiced and competent engineers who are supremely fluent in Linux.

Linux holds very little in the PC market share (personal and business) primarily because Linux remains an enthusiast’s OS, and Windows (any flavor) is more easily usable to Aunt Minnie, who would have great difficulty getting started with Linux.  With Linux, one must pick a distribution, pick a desktop, find out what that particular combination can and can’t do easily, then see if their favorite software will run successfully on the Linux platform.

The death of the PC has been heralded year after year, but billions of users don’t seem to pay that much attention.  And bear in mind that Microsoft cannot afford to chop the legs out from under Office (now rebranded), since Office, and not Windows, is one of Microsoft’s cash cows.  Windows as a subscription model might work, then again it might not.  It would appear that Microsoft is testing the waters, so to speak, in that regard, rather than committing to getting everyone “in the cloud”.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We were all once "Average Users". We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do to our systems, we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

Computer Specs

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Perhaps something of a modest diaspora, but not many will go to straight, no chaser Linux. Still too high a fence to climb over for vast numbers of everyday folks who aren’t tech enthusiasts. Switchers will end up on a *nix based OS though without even knowing it.

MacOS X+, iOS etc. have their ancestry in BSD Unix, Chrome OS & Android are Linux based, and those are where most switchers will end up if they leave Windows. It seems Windows is the last proprietary strongly end user/consumer facing OS out there.

As much as I hate this RentOS idea for myself, many businesses may like it for the “we take care of everything” aspect, and when they eventually try to push it on retail consumers, they may well succeed if it’s presented in the right way.

You’ll get 3 years of Windows with your new computer purchase, maybe a year of cheap or free Office, and they’ll just ease folks in to a full subscription model.

“You’ll own nothing, and be happy.” 🤷‍♂️

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oldfry, Cybertooth

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Please no more mainframe computers.

Carpe Diem {with backup and coffee}
offline▸ Win10Pro 2004.19041.572 x64 i3-3220 RAM8GB HDD Firefox83.0b3 WindowsDefender
offline▸ Acer TravelMate P215-52 RAM8GB Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1265 x64 i5-10210U SSD Firefox106.0 MicrosoftDefender
online▸ Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1778 x64 i5-9400 RAM16GB HDD Firefox114.0b8 MicrosoftDefender

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Cybertooth, Sky

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Doomed to succeed….?

Keeping IT Lean, Clean and Mean!

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Cybertooth

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Windows 365.  Remember Microsoft builds the platform for businesses, we just come along for the ride.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady

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GeeBeeDee, TechTango, Sky, Alex5723

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And bear in mind that Microsoft cannot afford to chop the legs out from under Office (now rebranded), since Office, and not Windows, is one of Microsoft’s cash cows.  Windows as a subscription model might work, then again it might not.

Maybe Microsoft will be happy with the amount of money it is getting from Office subscriptions, or maybe it will think ‘Well, we’re getting all of this money from Office subscriptions, so how about we get a load more money from Windows subscriptions too!’ I know which one my money is on, especially since they’re already doing it with Enterprise subscriptions.

After all, there are free Office alternatives, just like Linux is an alternative to Windows (in fact, not just like, because the free Office alternatives don’t have the complexity of Linux), yet that hasn’t stopped the march of Microsoft/Office 365, because people and companies are wedded to it, just like they’re wedded to Windows.

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I have one large installed app I use nearly everyday that will not run on Linux. Probably some others as well. I’m also a Win 365 user.  Unlike the savvy AskWoody folks, it seems very likely the vast majority of mainstream everyday Windows users have never heard of Linux.

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bbearren

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TechTango wrote:

I have one large installed app I use nearly everyday that will not run on Linux.

Have you tried Wine?

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bbearren wrote:

Linux holds a sizable share of the internet back plane.

Linux holds the world connected.
Without Linux there is no Windows. Without Windows Linux prevails.
Linux rules Internet servers, Apple’s OSs, Android, all routers, smart switches, smart TVs, Cars OS’s, super computers…

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Alex5723 wrote:

Linux holds the world connected.

Distribution of Linux-powered Website by Global Ranking

Linux has less than 50% total market share.

Alex5723 wrote:

Without Linux there is no Windows.

Cite a source, please.  The fact remains that Linux is and always has been an enthusiasts OS, otherwise it would have long since overtaken Windows.  Aunt Minnie is not keeping the internet running, IT Professionals well versed in Linux are doing that; they hardly fit into the category of “home users”.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We were all once "Average Users". We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do to our systems, we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

Computer Specs

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https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/linux-market-share/

However, according to W3Cook, Linux powers the servers that run 96.5 percent of the top one million domains in the world (as ranked by Alexa).

W3Techs goes even further down the list and claims Linux powers around 70 percent of the top 10 million Alexa domains. Windows controls the remaining 30 percent…

On Amazon EC2, standard Linux (along with its various distros) controls 92 percent of the market. It boasts more than 350,000 individual instances. Again, Windows is responsible for the other eight percent (Azure runs on Linux)..

Linux utterly dominates the list of the top 500 most powerful supercomputers in the world. In June 2017, 498 of the top 500 were running Linux. The only two non-Linux machines were running the Unix-based AIX…

bbearren wrote:

they hardly fit into the category of “home users”.

Home users use Linux routers, Linux Android and iOS, Linux Chromebooks, Linux smart TVS, Home Cinema systems, Linux streamers, Linux car OS systems…

Microsoft Cops to Windows Having Just 14 Percent Share

Microsoft on Monday conceded that its operating system market position has slipped dramatically if mobile devices are taken into consideration.

Speaking at this week’s Worldwide Partner Conference (WPC) in Washington, D.C., Microsoft Chief Operating Officer Kevin Turner said that Windows’ overall device market share is at 14 percent. Windows still has a 90 percent market share in the PC category, according to Turner, but the majority of computing devices are to be found in the mobile space…

* Apart from desktop PCs Windows is a dying breed.

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And don’t forget backup software.

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The OP is titled “Microsoft setting the ball for Windows 12 as it begins adding Cloud PC“.

Alex5723 wrote:

Linux routers, Linux Android and iOS, Linux smart TVS, Home Cinema systems, Linux streamers, Linux car OS systems…

Which of your listed examples are distinct “Personal Computers”?  Each of those examples can  be programmed in Linux without paying a license fee.

Again, there is a reason Linux is a niche PC OS.  It remains an enthusiasts OS.  Torvalds himself has said that between distros and GUI’s, there are too many moving parts, and that’s one of the main reason that Linux can’t settle down.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We were all once "Average Users". We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do to our systems, we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

Computer Specs

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You have admitted that you strip out what you do not want in your Windows 11 (and 10) systems. So in doing that you are also in effect running a “niche” version of Windows. That is not something you will be able to do with a “cloud” version of Windows 12 thus limiting your options and locking you more into Microsoft’s control. That is the opposite of what Linux provides and I believe why it was brought up in the thread. Granted Linux suffers from too much choice, but it’s always better to have options than to be locked into what a monopoly like Microsoft will allow.

Linux Mint 21.1 LTS (Cinnamon). Windows 8.1 Pro virtual machine (with Classic/Open Shell) via VirtualBox.

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Cybertooth

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bbearren wrote:

Which of your listed examples are distinct “Personal Computers”?

Smartphones, Tablets, Chromebooks, …

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Alex5723 wrote:

Smartphones, Tablets, Chromebooks, …

I have a Samsung Galaxy S21 5G that can’t even approach what I can easily achieve with my desktop.  There’s no comparison.  Tablets have never interested me; that niche doesn’t exist in my wheelhouse.  Chromebooks?  Nothing Google is in my stable, nor will be.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We were all once "Average Users". We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do to our systems, we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

Computer Specs

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The leaked Windows 12 alpha version shows that it is monthly subscription based with price locked features. Many features are locked behind a paywall (i.e. changing desktop background-$1, changing font-$1, etc.)

It sounds like MS will make it cloud based to get more people to pay.

MS is trying to bleed dry everyone’s wallet and lock them into only using MS.

MS should focus on security rather than profit. Currently MS has too many exploits that are in the wild.

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Mothy wrote:

You have admitted that you strip out what you do not want in your Windows 11 (and 10) systems. So in doing that you are also in effect running a “niche” version of Windows.

Indeed.

Mothy wrote:

That is not something you will be able to do with a “cloud” version of Windows 12 thus limiting your options and locking you more into Microsoft’s control.

I’m unconcerned.  I’m not reading into this the same stuff I’m reading in posts here at AskWoody.  Remember Vista? Remember the Windows Phone, “The Next Big Thing” that everybody was going to want?  Windows 8?  I’ll wait.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We were all once "Average Users". We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do to our systems, we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

Computer Specs

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abc clone wrote:

The leaked Windows 12 alpha version shows that it is monthly subscription based with price locked features. Many features are locked behind a paywall (i.e. changing desktop background-$1, changing font-$1, etc.)

Where?

abc clone wrote:

Currently MS has too many exploits that are in the wild.

Examples?

Windows 11 Pro version 22H2 build 22621.1778 + Microsoft 365 + Edge

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bbearren wrote:

I’m unconcerned. I’m not reading into this the same stuff I’m reading in posts here at AskWoody. Remember Vista? Remember the Windows Phone, “The Next Big Thing” that everybody was going to want? Windows 8? I’ll wait.

I would not mind it in the least if this potential cloud-based Windows turned out to be as successful as Windows 8.0.

But here’s a question: are there any technical hurdles that prevent Microsoft from using a “moment” or a “feature update” to turn Windows 11 into a cloud OS?

Keep Running Windows 7 Safely for Years to Come  
Make Windows 10 look and work like Windows 7

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Mothy

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Cybertooth wrote:

But here’s a question: are there any technical hurdles that prevent Microsoft from using a “moment” or a “feature update” to turn Windows 11 into a cloud OS?

There is absolutely nothing that can withstand the power of a recent drive image.  I remain unconcerned.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We were all once "Average Users". We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do to our systems, we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

Computer Specs

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Alex5723

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I agree a recent drive image of your system is invaluable. However it does not help prevent Microsoft from being able to push an unexpected update or make changes to your computer and possibly bork it unless other measures are used to prevent it. Same with calling frequent drive images a “hardened system” as they do not stop malware from getting on to a system and compromising it unless you have taken other preventative measures. Otherwise it’s all just a game of whack-a-mole: unexpected update or malware borks system > restore drive image > system borked again > restore drive image…..

Linux Mint 21.1 LTS (Cinnamon). Windows 8.1 Pro virtual machine (with Classic/Open Shell) via VirtualBox.

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gwt10, Cybertooth

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Mothy wrote:

However it does not help prevent Microsoft from being able to push an unexpected update or make changes to your computer and possibly bork it unless other measures are used to prevent it.

In January 2010, a house fire destroyed two of my PC’s.  Is that sufficiently “borked”?  I had well-protected complete drive images of both systems.  I bought a Dell 580 desktop and restored my primary system to that, easy peasy.  I waited until I could DIY another desktop to restore the second one.

“Hardened Windows” does not imply hardened computer.  Hardware fails/breaks.  I’ve been through many hardware iterations over the past 25+ years, but have maintained the same Windows throughout, upgrading as new versions came along.  Last year I did a complete hardware upgrade of my daily driver, and restored my drive images into the same Windows I was using when I shut the old hardware down.

Mothy wrote:

Otherwise it’s all just a game of whack-a-mole: unexpected update or malware borks system > restore drive image > system borked again > restore drive image…..

I’ve heard that song in many, many versions from many, many people.  The thing about it is, it has never happened that way.  I’ve always used AV/AM, and the only times I’ve had to restore a drive image have been when I myself have pooched my system delving around in Windows innards.

It’s all in green print in my signature line.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We were all once "Average Users". We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do to our systems, we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

Computer Specs

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Still awaiting an answer to the question:

Are there any technical hurdles that prevent Microsoft from using a “moment” or a “feature update” to turn Windows 11 into a cloud OS?

Keep Running Windows 7 Safely for Years to Come  
Make Windows 10 look and work like Windows 7

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Cybertooth wrote:

Are there any technical hurdles that prevent Microsoft from using a “moment” or a “feature update” to turn Windows 11 into a cloud OS?

I think that there are some legal hurdles to converting every existing license of Windows OS into a “Cloud only” OS.  I get reminders daily from Malwarebytes telling me that they have a new subscription version of Malwarebytes and I should upgrade.  I have a lifetime license that still gets updates, so no thanks, Malwarebytes.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We were all once "Average Users". We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do to our systems, we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

Computer Specs

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Cybertooth, fernlady

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I would say technically possible, but it would require a significant amount of beta testing to be done, and news of that would leak out.

I’m not a lawyer, but agree with bbearren that current licensing agreements probably contain language that would prohibit such a unilateral change. There is also the matter of social backlash from the public, and the risk of politicians seeing an opportunity to boost their positives by dragging Microsoft in hearings and/or passing laws detrimental to MS’s future plans.

I believe currently released versions of Windows are safe from modification, but look for first steps in the direction of subscriptions and licensing agreement language changes  starting with Windows 12 and fully crossing over a version or two later. Everything subject to change at any time for any reason of course.

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Cybertooth

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I’m not as optimistic and could see Microsoft pulling a Vader: “I am altering the deal, pray I don’t alter it any further.”!

They have been doing a lot of things over the past number of years that should be getting them in hot water (like what happened with the anti-trust IE stuff a long time ago). But no-one seems to want to hold them accountable anymore. Sadly the same can be said for big tech in general.

Linux Mint 21.1 LTS (Cinnamon). Windows 8.1 Pro virtual machine (with Classic/Open Shell) via VirtualBox.

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SkipH, Cybertooth

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Mothy wrote:

I’m not as optimistic and could see Microsoft pulling a Vader: “I am altering the deal, pray I don’t alter it any further.”!

You haven’t noticed this before now? 🙂

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Cybertooth, Mothy

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Haha, good point. Saw it a few years ago when I first starting using Windows 10 on a newly acquired desktop PC. Did NOT like the feeling that the system was serving Microsoft’s wants/needs over my own with the whole “Windows as a service”. So promptly wiped the system and installed Windows 8.1 (with Classic/Open Shell). Now that support has ended for 8.1 I’ve moved on to Linux Mint, a system that still respects the end user/administrator with full control over everything. 😀

Linux Mint 21.1 LTS (Cinnamon). Windows 8.1 Pro virtual machine (with Classic/Open Shell) via VirtualBox.

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Microsoft plans major platform upgrades for “Windows 12” that will modernize the OS with AI, faster updates, and better security

What you need to know

Microsoft is once again hard at work on building out a “modern” version of Windows.

The project is called CorePC, and follows the same goals as Windows 10X but with native support for legacy apps on devices that require it.

CorePC will pave the way to new configurations of Windows that scale up and down depending on PC hardware.

According to my sources who are familiar with Microsoft’s plans, the company is once again hard at work on a new project internally that’s designed to modernize the Windows platform with many of the same innovations it was working on for Windows Core OS, but with a focus on native compatibility for legacy Win32 applications on devices where it makes sense…

The big change with CorePC versus the current shipping version of Windows is that CorePC is state separated, just like Windows Core OS. State separation enables faster updates and a more secure platform via read-only partitions that are inaccessible to the user and third-party apps, just like on iPadOS or Android…

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Cybertooth

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Alex5723 wrote:

Microsoft is once again hard at work on building out a “modern” version of Windows.

“The CorePC concept uses something called “state separation,” Windows Central says, which essentially breaks up the operating system into various partitions. It’s not clear whether these partitions would be user-accessible or not. The other advantage, apparently, is that separating various components into different partitions—virtual buckets, if you will—allows each partition to be managed and updated separately. This would theoretically allow for quicker, more seamless updates to the Windows OS.”

The configuration described above is what I’ve been using since Windows XP. Unleash Windows, my website, has had tutorials for such a configuration for twenty+ years. It is extremely stable, efficient, and noticeably quicker than the traditional monolithic Windows installation, as verified through my dual boot setup. Getting a direct comparison on exactly the same hardware is hard to argue against.

For a recent example, KB5023778 Cumulative Update Preview for Windows 11 Version 22H2 for x64-based Systems has been hanging out in the “Download and install” bucket in Windows Update for about a week, and I decided to install it today. First I needed a current drive image. Since my OS partition is only 100GB on a NVMe SSD, that took all of 3:40 to create then verify the image.

I installed KB5023778 without hiccups, and I’m now running Windows 11 Pro (OS Build 22621.1485). On the other hand, if the update had caused problems, I could have restored my drive image in under 3 minutes, and my OS would return to the previous state without hiccups.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We were all once "Average Users". We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do to our systems, we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

Computer Specs

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Alex5723

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