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  • Microsoft should yank the Win10 version 2004 upgrade now

    Home Forums AskWoody blog Microsoft should yank the Win10 version 2004 upgrade now

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      • #2273337 Reply
        woody
        Da Boss

        Looks like people with a particular kind of Storage Spaces implementation are getting bit by yet another bug in Win10 version 2004. For the life of me
        [See the full post at: Microsoft should yank the Win10 version 2004 upgrade now]

      • #2273342 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        People capitalize on the hype that “YOU MUST INSTALL UPDATES NOW!!!!!!!!”

        Recently YouTuber ThioJoe made a video called 10 Ways You’re Using Your Computer WRONG! (the clickbait title already makes me want to bite my nails off) where, aside from slamming people who don’t change the default settings (really Joe? that’s up to the user to decide), he also slammed people who don’t install updates immediately. (He does later mention that feature updates are worth delaying, but only by about a month, which is still way too soon) And I’ve had plenty of discussions – arguments, almost – with other people who insist that you absolutely must install updates right away and that to think otherwise will mean you will get hacked the next day.

        There’s just this sentiment in the tech world now that assumes anything that hasn’t been updated in a week is obsolete and that it is imperative to always be on top of every single update that comes out. Tech companies have been promoting the idea with auto-updates and “strongly recommending” users to update, and unfortunately the idea has rubbed off on people – with dire consequences.

        Of course, I’ll give credit where it’s due – ThioJoe is absolutely right to slam people who don’t update at all… which, I hope, is none of us here. We just prefer to check to see if anything will break when we update, because many of us here use our computers for more than just our web browser. Updates don’t come down from heaven like manna; they’re made by people, and people aren’t perfect.

        5 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2273344 Reply
        geekdom
        AskWoody Plus

        Windows 10.2004 is unlikely to be recalled. The driving force behind the update is a better Microsoft operating system and this upgrade has been presented as bigger, better, and brighter. To remove the update or delay the release would indicate that the update and by implication, Microsoft has fallen short and cannot meet internal and external goals.

        G{ot backup} TestBeta
        offline▸ Win10Pro 1909.18363.959 x64 i3-3220 RAM8GB HDD Firefox79.0 Windows{Image/Defender/Firewall}
        online▸ Win10Pro 1909.18363.959 x64 i5-9400 RAM16GB HDD Firefox80.0b4 Windows{Image/Defender/Firewall}
        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #2273363 Reply
          woody
          Da Boss

          Yes. Agreed. That’s exactly the point.

          Somebody at Microsoft has to have the guts to stand up and shout, “Stop the madness!”

          4 users thanked author for this post.
          • #2273593 Reply
            geekdom
            AskWoody Plus

            No one wants to tell the emperor about the new clothes.

            G{ot backup} TestBeta
            offline▸ Win10Pro 1909.18363.959 x64 i3-3220 RAM8GB HDD Firefox79.0 Windows{Image/Defender/Firewall}
            online▸ Win10Pro 1909.18363.959 x64 i5-9400 RAM16GB HDD Firefox80.0b4 Windows{Image/Defender/Firewall}
      • #2273347 Reply
        GreatAndPowerfulTech
        AskWoody Plus

        2004 is most disappointing due to Microsoft’s having six months, since it was “finished” in November, to perfect it. They did a lousy job.

        GreatAndPowerfulTech

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #2276909 Reply
          EP
          AskWoody_MVP

          no GreatAndPowerfulTech.

          2004 was “finished” or RTMed in December 2019, not November

      • #2273348 Reply
        anotherwindowsuser
        AskWoody Lounger

        FYI, they are bringing back C/D week optional updates in July

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2273351 Reply
        Tex265
        AskWoody Plus

        As a reminder, Windows 10 version 1909 is good until 5/11/2021.

        That’s almost another 11 months folks.

        Windows 10 Pro x64 v1909 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 (RIP)
        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2273365 Reply
        SoulAsylum
        AskWoody Lounger

        Solution!!! Disband the Insider Program head to toe. There is too much data for Microsoft to digest from millions of people and being done by what we all already know, are the most incompetent developers on the planet. Obviously quality isn’t a priority at Microsoft nor do they have the proper leadership model to make it so.

        Cheers

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2273368 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        Really any Feature upgrade needs to be optional and I somehow suspect that it’s MS’s lack of in-house QA/QC and more reliance on that telemetry/AI to fix any issues but that places more onto any non insiders that really have never chosen to be BETA testers to MS’s insider ALPHA testing apparatus!

        I’m on 1809 Home and on 1809 Home I’ll remain until Nov 2020 and I’m really not going to take 10/2004, or even 10/1909, until I’m ready and that’s how it will be. And if any other feature update gets pushed onto my laptop  without me making that decision then that 1809/Home system Image backup is ready just in case. I’ve got 4 other laptops dual booting Windows 7/EOL with Linux Mint so plenty of daily online usage for those older laptop and less wear and tear on the newest 10 1809 Home laptop that’s mostly off and waiting for things to settle down as far as 10’s stability. And that laptop is also getting dual booted with Linux Mint as that’s been very productive on the old 7/EOL laptops than can never be allowed online with 7/EOL.

        MS’s got a bit more works to do on 10/2004 and I really want nothing to do with 2004’s WSL, but I sure home that 10/2004 is less of an issue than 10 1903/1909 with the endemic issues that really are not a good sign for MS’s end users.

      • #2273370 Reply
        PKCano
        Da Boss

        Most Users are probably not using Storage Sense.
        But one thing that worries me is how Microsoft\Windows uses Storage Sense.

        I do not use Storage Sense. AT ALL.
        But during a monthly update, Windows started filling up the Windows\Temp folder on one of my machines with hundreds of .tmp files.
        The machine has a 64GB drive (SSD, not HDD), and it went from around 24GB to 60GB used space because of this.
        There was a message about getting low on drive space and Windows turned on Storage Sense automatically, without permission.

        So this can happen to you even if you don’t use Storage Sense!

        5 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2273381 Reply
        creem
        AskWoody Lounger

        It’s times like this that I miss MS-DOS 6.22; Windows 3.11; and Norton Desktop. Netscape Navigator and AltaVista weren’t that bad, neither.

      • #2273383 Reply
        FL Jack
        AskWoody Plus

        Why would a company knowingly push unfinished, untested products out the door?  The only answer I can think of is because certain executives bonuses are based upon meeting unrealistic deadlines.

        • #2273452 Reply
          Still Anonymous
          AskWoody Lounger

          Triage.  Microsoft is still pretty much committed to releasing semi-annual feature set updates on Spring/Fall basis. Any lags upset the cycle for the next release.

          I believe that there is a faulty assumption that when stuff gets out the door, that the remaining work of users doing gamma testing is mostly a matter of polishing and fine-tuning, and that the AI testing processes are trustworthy of cleanups quickly.

          There’s a bunch of wishful thinking on the part of the people who have the final go/no-go decision of releases, especially if the decisions have been delegated to AI processes.

      • #2273394 Reply
        Alex5723
        AskWoody Plus

        And NOW Microsoft in forcing 2004 on unsuspected 1809 users.

      • #2273395 Reply
        F A Kramer
        AskWoody Plus

        I have an HP Desktop computer with Win 10, 64 bit, Ver 1909, that is being replaced by a new computer in a week or two. So I accepted the proposed “upgrade” to 2004 when it was offered this morning, June 18th, just to see what might happen. Being a retired science professor, I like to experiment!

        The upgrade took about a half-hour and went smoothly.

        I have noticed no major problems, but I can report that the upgrade “modified” (using a polite term) my color scheme almost everywhere and caused the mouse to behave contrary to my preferred settings. Earlier MS had redone the appearance of the search box with a lot of worthless clutter, and that is still the case.

        Will report later if I encounter problems.

         

        • #2273403 Reply
          anonymous
          Guest

          I have a nearly identical experience to yours – only differences are that mine is an HP laptop with a seventh generation Intel Core i7 7700HQ, 8Gb ram and a 128 Gb SSD; and my upgrade took MUCH longer.  The entire process took one hour and forty-five minutes, of which twenty-five minutes was downloading 4.2 Gb over wi-fi at around 20 mb/sec., twenty minutes was “getting things ready” (which it went back to after 25% of the installing was completed), and one hour was installing the upgrade in two steps, including four or five reboots. I also have the color scheme changes, the mouse settings changes, and the other clutter. But the process did complete successfully and there have been no problems that I have seen (I am not a gamer, not on a server network, and don’t use Outlook, Office, Storage Spaces,or a Microsoft Account, just a home user of Windows 10 Home). These upgrades should only be once a year and should never take more than an hour including the downloading and “getting things ready.”

           

      • #2273411 Reply
        John
        AskWoody Lounger

        Unless you installing on a test device I don’t think any user should volunteer to install 2004. Its a shame that some running older version will be pushed onto 2004 simply because of the end of life of that version. Might be old, but probably way more stable right now then 2004.

        • #2273433 Reply
          F A Kramer
          AskWoody Plus

          For me, my old HP computer is now exactly that… a test device. When the new computer is functional, the old one will be stripped for usable parts, mostly memory and the newer Graphics Processing Unit. It is not really worth trying to pass it along intact as a usable computer due to other components being unreliable at this point.

          I was pleased to be able to help the AskWoody universe achieve enlightenment by this experiment. Or whatever!

      • #2273430 Reply
        abbodi86
        AskWoody_MVP

        Anything can be fixed with cumulative update :rolleyes:

      • #2273432 Reply
        Steve S.
        AskWoody Plus

        I am sooo tired of the “move fast and break things” mentality. It almost guarantees that we will live the rest of our lives surrounded with broken things. 🙁

        Win7 Pro x64(Group B), Win10 Pro x64 1909, Win10 Home 1909, Linux Mint + a cat with 'tortitude'.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2273438 Reply
        AlexEiffel
        AskWoody_MVP

        What’s worse than having your disk array suddenly turn to raw and being unreadable? Slow, unnoticed corruption that drags on for weeks. You do backups, you continue to work, add files, change files, remove files, only to find out much later that you can’t know for sure anything is good, but since when? Do you still have a full backup since the update that created the issue in the first place? Are you willing to restore that and then try to remember everything else you did since then to try to retrieve what you can?

        This kind of bug is totally unacceptable. You can’t let people beta test basic OS functionality. You can’t mess with that. Now I am really wondering if I should ditch my arrays and shell out the money for external NASes before the next blunder like this one. I liked the idea that I could trust Windows to at least not mess up my data RAID if I was having an issue with an update. I liked the simplicity of having protection against bit rot on the same machine, with no added investment in the Pro version when it was still available. I even bought the obscenely expensive Workstation version on my new rig just to get access to the ReFS feature.

        Can I trust that a normal cumulative update won’t ever cause this kind of issue now? Microsoft don’t deserve our trust anymore. Please stop this madness. I want access to a LTS version, so I don’t waste time on Windows and its useless updates and focus on working on Windows like I did before the Windows 10 era. When I hear normal people complain about computers at health clinics or other professional environments, it’s never about features they don’t have. It’s about having reliable systems. We all have other things to do than dealing with unncessary issues.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2273461 Reply
        bratkinson
        AskWoody Plus

        The unfortunate reality these days is that big corporations ‘decide’ on a project completion date and the underlings will do everything they can to meet it, good or bad.  As a retired mainframe computer consultant, that’s been a ‘way of life’ at the 15 or so Fortune 500 companies I had contracted at.  And so what if the project isn’t 100% perfect?  Most folks these days are realizing that the initial implementation will have some bugs in it.  New cars aren’t any different.

        And, of course, woe be to the manager(s) whose projects did NOT come in on time!  Their ladder climbing days at that company suddenly ended.  And for the underlings that worked insane hours to get it up and running?  It’ll be YEARS before they’ll ever see anything but a most-minimal annual raise.

        The other problem is that most software folks fail to do sufficient regression testing on any changes they made.  They make a half-a**ed attempt at verifying that they didn’t ‘break’ some of the big things, and the little things never get verified.  I’m on the other side of the fence on that one.  While writing an address correction subsystem for a Baby Bell, I had a ‘test base’ of over 35,000 actual addresses that I would compare the old (before any changes) results to the new results and verify that any differences were what I wanted.  I lost count fairly early in that project when I discovered I broke something and had to fix that.  Unfortunately, these days, most major software systems are incomprehensively large and complex, so the odds of breaking something when making a minor update is probably 25% or greater!

        As Steve S said above: “It almost guarantees that we will live the rest of our lives surrounded with broken things. 🙁”

        Yup!

        • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by bratkinson.
        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2273485 Reply
        Paul T
        AskWoody MVP

        I liked the simplicity of having protection against bit rot on the same machine, with no added investment in the Pro version

        You don’t need to rely on anything fancy to guarantee your data, it’s already done for you by the disk manufacturers.

        cheers, Paul

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #2273619 Reply
          AlexEiffel
          AskWoody_MVP

          Are you implying that a mirrored ReFS array brings nothing vs the ECC checks in hard disks? It would mean that a lot of people put a lot of energy creating and refining ZFS and other more more reliable filesystems for nothing.

          Ideally, my backups should remain that. A backup plan. I would never need to rely on them because I would have a very reliable system to keep an active copy of my files, Windows won’t mess up my files and I would be lucky and never get infected. That is the purpose of such an array. I want to keep everything live and safe, with of course an offline offsite backup in case the sky falls.

          I like your idea of triggering the ECC check by reading the files when doing the backup.

           

          • #2273724 Reply
            Paul T
            AskWoody MVP

            Better file systems are a great idea and RAID is a requirement in a business environment, but they aren’t a panacea for all things.

            cheers, Paul

      • #2273575 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        Why not?  1809 was pulled and delayed and hemmed and hawed until many users skipped it, I did.  The claims about “security” issues being addressed border on conspiracy culture; I mean bad actors reveal themselves every two weeks?  A true security issue would receive an immediate patch regardless of MS’s hokey alpha week designation system.  Linux works like that, subscription and free distros.  In the rare instances MS does it, it’s called “out of band”  which means…absolutely nothing, “band” isn’t mentioned anywhere else!

        Until updates were forced by only allowing a few delay resets, I used “old” versions of Win 10 for two years or so before upgrading with no “security” issues whatsoever with five machines online, three with kids doing poking at buttons and clicking impulsively.  I do take common sense protection steps but Windows supposedly is able to protect itself well enough.

        What the real purpose of all these updates is, IDK.  MS pared support and quality review dramatically, something that typically happens with legacy products.  Seems like all the buzz and drama surrounding Windows, which contains a good OS under all the junkware, may be about job security.  Just leave it alone!

        Trust a company that continues to use the word “experience” as a noun, verb and adjective in the same paragraph and seems to require all sentences to contain the word, nonsense or not?  Nope.

        • #2276908 Reply
          EP
          AskWoody_MVP

          that’s what happens when MS fired their QA team a few years ago
          quality of Win10 sometimes is worse

      • #2274230 Reply
        geekdom
        AskWoody Plus

        Another Windows 10.2004 error flagged in the Microsoft forum. If you have Windows Live Mail, part of Windows Essentials 2012 (depreciated, but not dead), this error occurs:

        https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windowslive/forum/all/windows-10-feature-update-2004-appears-to-have/9736c90c-17a9-444d-8ab2-1422c697e3a0

        Mercifully, there is a fix and the fix is provided in the thread.

        G{ot backup} TestBeta
        offline▸ Win10Pro 1909.18363.959 x64 i3-3220 RAM8GB HDD Firefox79.0 Windows{Image/Defender/Firewall}
        online▸ Win10Pro 1909.18363.959 x64 i5-9400 RAM16GB HDD Firefox80.0b4 Windows{Image/Defender/Firewall}
        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2274848 Reply
        Terry Muench
        AskWoody Lounger

        I agree: Windows 10 20H1 aka v2004 should be pulled IMMEDIATELY. It is untested garbage. You only need to look on askWoody.com to see dozens of issues reported. As per usual, Microsoft is releasing a MAJOR OS upgrade without full testing.

        I had MAJOR problems with upgrading v1903 to v1909; I had to install from the downloaded (ISO) Win10_1909_English_x64.iso instead of installing from WUP (Windows Update). Why? Because v2004 had already dropped on this machine, replacing the v1909 which was available only a few days earlier. I was able to install v1909 using WUP on only one machine; it took TEN MINUTES because all that is involved is “flipping a switch” as v1903 and v1909 share a common code base.

        When I upgraded my desktop machine using the ISO it took almost THREE HOURS> And, it died after being stuck at 91%. The error was

        0x8007042B – 0x4000D
        The installation failed in the SECOND_BOOT phase with an error during MIGRATE_DATA operation

        Here’s what I did – after a lot of research – to get the upgrade to work

        1. Run DISM

        DISM.exe /Online /Cleanup-Image /Restorehealth

        2. Run SFC

        sfc /scannow
        Windows Resource Protection found corrupt files and successfully repaired them.

        3. disconnect from Internet

        disable your Wi-Fi/Ethernet adapter

        4. disable Malwarebytes A-V

        5. disable unneeded startup items in Task Manager

        for example, I disabled Epson FAX send/receive as I don’t FAX

        This time the upgrade was done in 2 hours w/o errors. After reboot, I had to re-enable MWB and re-enable any wanted startup items. I had one unusual thing happen after the final reboot: I could create folders under my /Documents root, but could not create/write files as the folder was marked Read-Only; the R/O attribute could not be cleared. Yes, my account has the Administrator tag.

        https://appuals.com/how-to-fix-folder-keeps-reverting-to-read-only-on-windows-10/

        The above link shows you how to fix the problem.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2274920 Reply
        Alex5723
        AskWoody Plus

        Just took a peek at the Windows Update screen and Microsoft has changed the incompatibility notice on my Lenovo Y530 1909 Pro May updates removing 2004 being incompatible…
        Wonder what has changed.

        no2004

        Attachments:
        • #2276906 Reply
          EP
          AskWoody_MVP

          not much, Alex5723.

          I get the same message about 2004 on my old HP desktop PC using a very old nVidia graphics hardware like the one you are experiencing.

          we’ll find out more on July 14th (patch Tuesday for July 2020)

          • This reply was modified 1 month ago by EP.
      • #2276883 Reply
        triggerhoppy
        AskWoody Plus

        I applied the 2004 update to my windows 10 pro x64

        Mostly it was ok. Then I tried to access gpedit to make some adjustments.

        The message was, failed to open on this machine, you do not have the right permissions. Unspecified error.

        It then opens with no entries that can be accessed.

        mmc.exe has a similar problem,although it opens without error, but no entries.

        I can access the registry to make these changes, but gpedit would be a lot easier, and safer.

        I always log in as an administrator.

        On the plus side, it seems to boot and load quicker.

        • #2276887 Reply
          PKCano
          Da Boss

          Did your Desktop look different after the installation?
          Is your User folder and your data in the proper places?

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #2277813 Reply
            triggerhoppy
            AskWoody Plus

            Desktop and user files still all ok. I did have a bsod at one time, but nothing since.

      • #2277139 Reply
        Wheathead
        AskWoody Lounger

        I installed 2004 update on June 25th on my Dell Inspiron 5548 Laptop.  It took about 3 hours.  (Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-5500U CPU @ 2.40GHz 2.40 GHz, 16.0 GB, 64 bit Operating System, x64.

        I had absolutely no problems for several days.  Everything worked well and no changes to display or operation.  I did encounter an issue with my external hard drives (USB 3.0, four Seagate drives in Thermaltake dual docks) losing visibility off and on, creating some problems with backups and access at various times. (I’ve had this problem in the past using USB extension hard drives).  I attempted  to correct that with update on Intel Chipset updates on Dell failed until I reinstalled the A10 bios over top of the existing A10 bios, then the Intel Chipset installation update succeeded, and the USB drives in the docks stopped fading out and disappearing.  Everything as of 7/2 is working well.

        I noticed Windows 10 error events on the disk drives (Event ID 11) controller failure error reporting, and I went to Microsoft information on that error being reported as occurring frequently among others, checked the drives with Seagate and Dell tools as perfectly operating and took the Microsoft recommendation to ignore the error as some anomaly. “There is no functionality loss as a result of System Event ID 11 being logged. This error can be safely ignored. ”  https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/help/2582695/system-event-id-11-is-logged-on-resume-when-an-i-o-operation-to-a-raw

        My recommendation is to follow this for every PC tinkerer:
        https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/947821/fix-windows-update-errors-by-using-the-dism-or-system-update-readiness

         

      • #2282890 Reply
        EP
        AskWoody_MVP

        the 2004 media creation tool is now downloading the “refreshed” 2004 version with build 19041.388 (KB4565503 CU slipstreamed)

        forget about MS “yanking” version 2004 as they’re slowly stabilizing it

        and

        MS is slowly pushing more “forced” upgrades to 2004 for those using older Win10 versions as Born has recently noted here.

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