Microsoft Surface bulging batteries continue to anger and frustrate customers

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The bulging/expanded Surface battery issue has been growing. And it’s obvious that, while Microsoft won’t discuss this openly, that they are well awar
[See the full post at: Microsoft Surface bulging batteries continue to anger and frustrate customers]

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doriel, Nibbled To Death By Ducks, Kirsty, woody, Elly

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Not having had a Surface myself, I can only speculate that the cause may be a cheap and poorly designed/made/both Lithium-Polymer type of battery.

These are prone to the kind of swelling described at “Battery University”:

“Battery manufacturers insist that Li-ion batteries do not generate excess gases that can lead to swelling when properly used. Nevertheless, some swelling can occur and most is due to faulty manufacturing. The pressure from swelling can crack a battery cover open and in some cases break the display or electronic circuit.”

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/archive/pouch_cell_small_but_not_trouble_free

I’ve had these in cell phones, and they’re a right pain if not manufactured correctly. (They also have a lower energy density than other types on Lithium-Ion batts.)

Could this be the issue? Maybe they just got the batts cheap, cheap, cheap, or…the engineers were overruled (as happens so often) by Marketing, who said, “No, we’re not going to use anything else, it’s too expensive.” Or the charge circuits were poorly designed, and they change to quickly and swell up under heat and humidity. Or…

In any case, the product sounds like it’s defective in manufacture from the start, and open to a class-action recall. And if that panel breaks due to a swelling battery and sends a sharp shard of plastic flying…ooh, boy.

Pure speculation, but maybe a place to start.

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Sorry…“and they change to quickly…” should been “and they charge up too quickly…”

I’m in SoCal, and this heat is making me absolutely insane; it’s like living in an overheated yurt…

 

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What I don’t understand is why Surface enthusiasts who have a Surface Book with a bulging battery and yellowing screen still remain loyal to Surface. Once they learn how much it costs to replace that device via the warranty with another refurbished unit just as old, or learn how much it costs to replace it with a Surface Book 3, why do they continue to spend the money on these devices? There are comparable devices available from other manufacturers for less money with much better warranties.

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Elly, kdock, Nibbled To Death By Ducks, woody

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Unfortunately this is not exclusive to Surface devices. We have had a few Dell Latitude laptops in where the bottom of the laptop started to bulge causing the bottom cover to start separating from the rest of the laptop. These would be Latitudes that were 2 – 3 years  old.

After a few of these I did some digging and Dell is aware of the issue and their comment was “there is no danger from the swelling but it is recommended that the battery be replaced.”

We were not comfortable allowing someone to use a laptop with this situation so we replaced the batteries.

So something with the make or manufacture of laptop style batteries is causing this among some portable electronic devices.

Red Ruffnsore

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Elly, Nibbled To Death By Ducks, FL Jack, woody

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Wow. Some video! I’m surprised the guy didn’t have to go outside, touch an object made of Oak, and complete a circle widdershins!

All kidding aside, do we know that the batteries used in Surface devices are Polymer types?

And about those Dell Latitude laptops; mine (see signature) has hard case type batts, (5 years old) and the thing is built like the USS Iowa. No bulging, cracking parts, “no dripping, no zzing,” no unpleasant hardware (just replacement of worn-batt and optical drive)…it’s a real downer to hear the new Latitudes are that degraded.

“Make ’em cheap, and shoot the engineers!”

<sigh>

Does this go for all new Latitudes, or only non-E types?

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We have a bunch of Latitude laptops and fortunately I am only aware of maybe 3 laptops that had this issue. I’d have to go back and check to see if they were all the same model, but I don’t believe they were. As mentioned these are not new Latitude models but laptops that were all around 3 years old.

It kind of reminds me of when Dell had a bunch of Optiplex PC’s that had “bad Caps”. Capacitors were swelling and going bad on the motherboards. But it only affected some models for a limited period of time.

Red Ruffnsore

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doriel

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This happens to our Dell 5580. But only on three devices, only on Latitude 5580. No other had issue and technician that replaced our batteries said, that this series has this issue often. But as I said, only three devices form twenty approx.
Keyboard starts to lift up and front of the notebook opens 🙂 technician repairs it for free, cause we have servicing contract, it takes his 5 minutes to repair it.
I doubt that MSFT is this helpful and willing to cooperate. That is not the simillar case.

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Nibbled To Death By Ducks

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Can’t you just drill a little hole in the battery?  That would work, once. 🙂

Devices held together with PSA’s are definitely quick to assemble compared to screws and tooling (capital equipment) is much cheaper compared to molding and tuning snaps but really aren’t made to be taken apart.  Even “approved” disassembly methods are slow and require care to not destroy components in the process.

If this is typical of how MS repairs Surfaces, wow!  It’s how phone screens/hidden batteries are replaced but they’re smaller, less flexible, easier to remove and their batteries aren’t the de facto structural elements they are in Surfaces. Less care is needed to replace a section of debonded aircraft fuselage skin.  Batteries are cheap; the initial assembly costs saved by using adhesive are lost many times over with all the labor repairing. A very expensive throwaway laptop thingy.  Not something I’d ever buy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlCnau-0McE

I bet MS makes a lot of profit on Surfaces.  If they don’t have to repair them.

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Elly, woody

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Can’t you just drill a little hole in the battery?  That would work, once. 🙂

Don’t forget to call your local fire dept. in advance before such “servicing”.

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Elly

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As has been mentioned, this swelling of this type of battery is not as uncommon as it should be.  5 years ago I bought an inexpensive Lenovo “laptop” to use only during leisure traveling,  so if I lost it or it was stolen it would be no big deal.

After 2-1/2 years, the battery was swollen to the point that it ripped out one of the screw anchors holding the screw which hold the base together under the keyboard.

While it probably wasn’t worth the effort, I super-glued the screw anchor back into position and found a inexpensive replacement battery online and put it back together.  It has been fine since, but I wouldn’t waste my time or money again.

I wish laptops were still available that have batteries that were the “old fashion” type which just side out from the back of machine.

Next time I’ll go with a tablet instead.

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My Dell G3, which I bought for Black Friday (late November) in 2018, has a battery that is fairly rapidly dropping in total capacity even though it is essentially unused. I’ve got the UEFI set to “mostly AC use” mode, and the only times it sees battery use is when I move it from one room to the other (I have separate AC chargers), and that’s not very often.

Even so, it’s already down to 71% of its rated capacity, and dropping fast.

My Acer Swift is older than the G3 by the better part of a year, and it gets used on battery (and then charged up) constantly, generally being discharged to no more than 60% before being recharged, though it has been deep cycled many times.  When it’s not out and about with me, it’s plugged in and running on AC as is the G3. But its battery capacity remaining is at 91%.

It’s charge/discharge cycles that are supposed to be the most harmful to the battery, and deep cycles are worse than the discharges to ~60% that the Swift sees, but it’s still far more than the G3 ever had.

Modern laptops, tablets, phones, etc., don’t keep charging the battery forever as long as the thing is plugged in… the unit will sense when the battery is fully charged and cut the current to the battery (the charging LED, if there is one, will go out, and the onscreen tray icon will show that it has stopped charging). Overcharging is destructive to batteries, but it’s not something you would see on modern gear unless there is something broken.

I did have a replacement battery (aftermarket) for my Core 2 Duo laptop (Asus F8) that would never finish charging. The charging light would remain on and the icon would say “charging” forever. I took the battery out of service and had it replaced under warranty. With the new battery, it stopped charging when it was full as it was supposed to.

There’s really no reason for my G3’s battery to be in such a state given its lack of use. I would expect some slight deterioration from age alone, but it should at least be better than the older Swift that sees its battery discharged significantly at least twice a week for the past couple of years.

Usually, when you replace something like this, the OEM battery is the gold standard, but is it with the Dell? I’ve had better performance than this (in terms of service life) from aftermarket batteries. Aftermarket batteries are all over the place, costing about $50, while the genuine Dell one is double that. There are a lot of poor aftermarket batteries, but it doesn’t mean they all must be. Dell clearly went cheap on the OEM for them, so it is quite possible that an aftermarket one may be at least as good. But how would I know which one?

It has not swelled, at least. Not yet. But it does seem to be a really low quality battery, so I will certainly keep an eye on it. I can easily open the case every now and then to check it.

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doriel wrote:

This happens to our Dell 5580. But only on three devices, only on Latitude 5580. No other had issue and technician that replaced our batteries said, that this series has this issue often. But as I said, only three devices form twenty approx.

Hm! Thanks, Doriel; It now seems to point to a bad manufacturing process with certain lots/runs of these polymer-type Lithium batteries, also sometimes seen in “pouch” types. It is not to be assumed that Dell has only one supplier of these type of batts, so by analogy on the Surface, it’s probably the same: the charging circuit is OK, but it’s a run, or certain manufacturer of these polymer batts that’s the culprit.

(This “battle of the bulge”, as many have said above, is also seen in phones and other devices. If they are this bad, maybe they shouldn’t use this type…but, cost of warranty repairs vs. overall profitability of the line probably makes this moot these days. There should be a “Lemon Law” that would take care of out-of-warranty customers.)

Time to have the Buyer and/or the Product Manager at MSFT take a trip to the offending battery maker and “explain it to them.” In the woodshed. Many times. 🙁

(Used to be an electronics buyer for a while myself; have had to do it. Unpleasant, but it has to be done.)

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[doriel]

It is not to be assumed that Dell has only one supplier of these type of batts, so by analogy on the Surface, it’s probably the same: the charging circuit is OK, but it’s a run, or certain manufacturer of these polymer batts that’s the culprit.

I agree with your assumption. Once we had problem with O2 SIM cards. We never had single issue, until one day. All SIM cards that came in the same delivery had similar issue – connection lost and you had to restart mobile phone to catch the signal again. O2 replaced all faulty SIM cards for free, cause O2 was aware about this issue. Does MSFT do the same? No.

Since battery replacement on Dell is easy, its not big deal. Since bulging battery on MS Surface can break your display and battery is unreplaceable, I consider this very serious and unfortunate issue. Not mentioning the risk of fire…

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• This reply was modified 3 years, 1 month ago by doriel. Reason: oh grammar

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My first 2 posts got wiped; hello, testing…

Born’s Windows World has some good info on this; seems charge/discharge UEFI and firmware issues ALSO contribute to the problem. Man, what a can of worms:

https://borncity.com/win/2020/08/19/blhende-akkus-bei-microsoft-surfaces-und-die-firmware/

With subpar batts AND charging issues, wow. So glad I could never afford one of these!

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<p data-pm-slice=”1 1 []”> I have a Surface Pro4, With the Battery swollen bulging the screen. That type my almost 600.00 to replace with a refurbish with a 90 day warrant. No assurance that it will not do the something. I also own a surface book, what am I to expect? Yes please include me in the lawsuit.</p>

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