Microsoft you have made this confusing

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Just bought a new workstation. HP small form factor (with the largest power brick ever) with a Windows 11 Pro downgraded to Windows 10 Pro so I KNOW i
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Susan Bradley Patch Lady

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abbodi86, geekdom

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Wasn’t the only source of confusion the third-party app WhyNotWin11 (which hasn’t been updated for five months)?

Were you able to install Windows 11 without problems, as confirmed by Microsoft’s list of supported processors which was correct?

Windows 11 Pro version 22H2 build 22621.1485 + Microsoft 365 + Edge

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The confusion is that I can’t use the official Microsoft application to check the Windows 11 eligibility.  It won’t check domain joined computers.  That tool should work ANYWHERE on ANY hardware connected to ANY THING.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady

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Susan

Was the HP Z2 Small Form Factor Workstation delivered with Wolf Pro Security?

If so, any thoughts on the application?

We ran into problems with the HP security package and unstilled it.

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It came with the unit.  I’m still debating if it’s going to stay or go.  (I’m still installing printers, QuickBooks versions, tax software, etc)

Susan Bradley Patch Lady

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Documentation usually lags implementation. Truer words were never spoken: “We come in pieces.”

Carpe Diem {with backup and coffee}
offline▸ Win10Pro 2004.19041.572 x64 i3-3220 RAM8GB HDD Firefox83.0b3 WindowsDefender
offline▸ Acer TravelMate P215-52 RAM8GB Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1265 x64 i5-10210U SSD Firefox106.0 MicrosoftDefender
online▸ Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1413 x64 i5-9400 RAM16GB HDD Firefox112.0b3 MicrosoftDefender

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“Just bought a new workstation…with a Windows 11 Pro downgraded to Windows 10 Pro so I KNOW it supports Windows 11.”

I recall that Microsoft did this same type of downgraded license when Windows 8 came out – you could get a Windows 8 computer with a license that was downgraded to Windows 7, and with Windows 7 installed on the computer.

Are you sure that this means that Windows 11 will work on the computer? It could mean that; or it could simply mean that a downgraded Windows 11 license will work on the computer

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 8.1 running in a VM

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LOL, it was not that many years ago that Microsoft assured us that W10 would be the last version of Windows ever. We were all told to embrace Windows as a service and Microsoft would take control of your computer and priorities. We are still bathing in the bilge water of that confused and confusing environment.

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Charlie

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Susan Bradley wrote:

The confusion is that I can’t use the official Microsoft application to check the Windows 11 eligibility.  It won’t check domain joined computers.  That tool should work ANYWHERE on ANY hardware connected to ANY THING.

Why not restore the PC to original stat and test with Microsoft’s compatibility app ?

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I had already started down the route of customization on the computer and didn’t think that the tools I recommend would actually not give me truthful information. Now I know that I can’t depend on at least the one.

We assume that the Microsoft tool would be accurate.  Clearly the third party tool was not.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady

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Susan Bradley wrote:

I had already started down the route of customization on the computer and didn’t think that the tools I recommend would actually not give me truthful information.

As you always advice. Make a full image backup of current state, restore to original state, test, restore from backup.

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I do have a backup, but wanted to roll forward, not back.  I was just very surprised that a tool I’ve been recommending was dead wrong.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady

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Alex5723

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Susan

We recently setup a HP Z2 Tower G9 Workstation (Product number: 4Y0H6AV) that was shipped with Windows 11 Pro downgraded to Windows 10 Pro and a 1 Year Wolf Pro Security License.

The setup was significantly more time consuming/complicated than we had expected:

• We replaced the original 256 GB SSD with a larger SSD and cloned the contents of the 256 GB drive onto the new 2 TB drive and started up the PC up.
• We had intended use Windows 11 but the PC booted to Windows 10 and we did not see an easy way to get to Windows 11. So, we stuck with Windows 10. For us the operating system is not a critical pathway as long the computer works and it runs efficiently.
• We then installed Microsoft Office Home & Business 2021, Nuance Dragon speech recognition, Adobe Acrobat Standard 2020, Acronis True Image, etc.

And then problems began. The computer was slow to non-responsive.

We opened Task Manager and saw that Wolf Pro Security was using a disproportionately large amount of the PC’s resources. We uninstalled Wolf Pro and its related software using the Revo Uninstaller. We then installed eset Internet Security. System operation immediately improved.

Yesterday we opened and ran Windows Update. In addition to installing all of the offered Windows 10 updates, we downloaded and installed a large number of “optional” HP and Intel driver and app updates. Then, from the NVIDIA website we downloaded and installed the updated the system’s RTX Series T400 graphics card.

And now, all is well with our two-month-old computer.

As part of our standard computer setup process, we assigned the new PC a small plastic box with a lid and placed in it:

• The original SSD drive;
• A copy of the computer’s recovery media;
• A cloned copy of the C drive, stored on an external HHD, that was created after the computer was set up with Windows, Windows updates, all available drivers, and applications – but before the computer was placed into service;
• CD/DVDs containing the set-up files for Microsoft Office 2021, Nuance Dragon speech recognition, Adobe Acrobat Standard 2020, etc. as well as any software boxs containing instructions and/or key cards;
• All manuals and other documentation that were shipped with the computer;
• Acronis rescue media; and
• Any hardware that was left on the workbench after setting up the computer.
• We do not store post setup hardware driver updates, software updates, or Windows updates in the “plastic box.”

Once the computer was placed in operation, the plastic box was closed and stored away and hopefully will never be opened again.

But if we have a significant system failure, we have the ability to recover the computer to its as new condition in a matter of hours using the contents of the plastic box.  Then, it is simply a matter of updating Windows, installing updated drivers, and recovering data files and Outlook contacts and calendars from backups.

In addition, to the set of application setup files stored on CDs, mentioned above, we also store copies of application set-up files on the computer’s C drive.

It should be remembered that when the set-up files are accessed during the installation process they are frequently removed from the computer by the application’s manufacturer.

Therefore, when we download an application’s set up file one copy is permanently saved on the PC’s C drive and another copy is used for the application’s installation.

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Personal preferences:  I don’t like large 2T drives when recovering workstations.  2T takes a LONG time to restore if you are doing recovery even on SSD.

To get it to Windows 11 just use the Windows 11 iso download page Download Windows 11 (microsoft.com) which is what I did after I manually confirmed with the CPU listing that it was officially supported to Windows 11.  I’ve not noticed performance issues.

Microsoft 365 here with the business premium so it’s running the Defender ATP.  I haven’t yet pulled out the HP wolf, still wanting to evaluate what it really brings to the table.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady

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“We replaced the original 256 GB SSD with a larger SSD and cloned the contents of the 256 GB drive onto the new 2 TB drive and started up the PC up.”

I might have simply added the 2 TB drive and used it as my data drive, and kept the 256 GB drive as my Windows drive.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 8.1 running in a VM

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Alex5723

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Susan – I can assure you it will go to Win11. That program you’re using is wrong.

First run this:
WindowsPCHealthCheckSetup.msi

https://aka.ms/GetPCHealthCheckApp

And then run this:
Windows11InstallationAssistant.exe

https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=2171764

They’re both official Microsoft programs btw

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Here’s the thing.  Once the computer is on the domain, in my case behind WSUS the official Microsoft application won’t work.  It says “Your organization manages updates on this PC” and will not inform the user that the computer will go to 11.

If you are a big business with SCCM/MCM and all that there are tools to tell you.  If you are a consumer, this tool will work.  But when I’m in this awkward in between size, it won’t run on the machine.  Then the third party tool gave confusing information.  So I had to rely on manually checking the CPU on a list to ensure that it would upgrade.  I bought this with the intention of it being a Windows 11 machine and when one tool wouldn’t run and the other gave wrong information I was like… say what?

 

Susan Bradley Patch Lady

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Yes, but the second will STILL upgrade you to Windows 11. You are telling people that they cannot upgrade to Windows 11 because of this, and that’s just plain false.

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At no point in the article did she say she couldn’t upgrade. Just that she couldn’t check to see if it could upgrade.

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I was second guessing myself.  I had a new computer running Windows 10 that I intended to be on 11.  I wanted to be sure it was supported.  I had to scroll through a confusing list of CPUs to make sure it was supported.  I was going to the HP web site going… uh folks? This is SOLD as stating it will support Window 11 with a 10 downgrade.   I hit page after page telling me that SOME i7’s were supported but not all.  So I was second guessing myself.  I used a tool that I recommended that others use as being authoritative and in hindsight it can be wrong and I can no longer recommend it to folks.  So now I’ll be telling folks – don’t join it to the domain, test it first or you’ll need to roll your image back to factory installed.  I still don’t think it should be this hard to tell.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady

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Alex5723

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Funny thing about Win11 and SCCM, I’m able to deploy a Win11 image on a VM without TPM or even a Dynabook laptop with an Intel 6th generation in it. But unable to make an upgrade from these two.

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I have found that on hardware that isn’t supported, you can get the security updates, but feature releases won’t be offered.  You’ll have to do the iso install method to keep them on supported levels.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady

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Susan

Is your new HP Z2 Small Form Factor Workstation now running under Windows 11?

If HP sold it as Windows 11 Pro downgraded to Windows 10 Pro machine the assumption should be that the PC supports Windows 11.

You will recall that we had a similar problem with a new HP Z2 Tower G9 Workstation that was shipped with Windows 11 Pro downgraded to Windows 10 Pro.

We had intended to run it under Windows 11 but it booted the first time with Windows 10.

We considered using the Windows 11 Installation Assistant to move to Windows 11 but were afraid that we would lose:

• The HP apps that shipped with the computer including:
  • HP’s PC Hardware Diagnostic;
  • HP Support Assistant;
  • HP PC Hardware Diagnostics Windows;
  • ZCentral Remote Boost;
  • HP Image Assistant;
  • HP Manageability Integration Kit;
  • Performance Advisor 3.0.
• As well as HP’s system security management tools including:
  • HP Driver Packs;
  • HP Management Integration Kit for Microsoft System Center Configuration Management Gen4;
  • HP System Software Manager; and
  • Wolf Pro Security.

After the machine was up and running we found that Wolf Pro Security was mucking around under the hood.

So we stayed with Windows 10 and uninstalled Wolf Pro.

We will move to Windows 11 at some point, but not now.

So, have you been able to move to Windows 11?

Have you had any problems with Wolf Pro?

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Note that while Microsoft is now pushing 22H2 to “unmanaged” pcs (that means you, the huddled masses), I don’t consider it still quite ready for prime time.

I don’t think Windows 11 is EVER ready for prime time ever since its release.

How about the ridiculous file copying bug that can slow down file transfer speeds (apparently introduced in 22H2 and still not fixed months later), just to quote one example? How can such a problem get through the supposedly final 22H2 code and be released to the wild? And why has it been allowed to persist months later?

Not to say about the equally bad, if not even worse, changes like “show more options” in the Explorer.

As to the problems you encountered, should we even be surprised about Microsoft’s incompetence now?

I am grateful that I have been able to avoid Windows 11 so far, and hopefully for at least several more years.

Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst.

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James Bond 007 wrote:

How about the ridiculous file copying bug that can slow down file transfer speeds (apparently introduced in 22H2 and still not fixed months later), just to quote one example?

Microsoft has fixed slow file copy bug in Windows 11 22H2

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Alex5723 wrote:

Microsoft has fixed slow file copy bug in Windows 11 22H2

… but has not yet released that fix to most users:

Known issues in this update

Copying large multiple gigabyte (GB) files might take longer than expected to finish on Windows 11, version 22H2. You are more likely to experience this issue copying files to Windows 11, version 22H2 from a network share via Server Message Block (SMB) but local file copy might also be affected.Windows devices used by consumers in their home or small offices are not likely to be affected by this issue.

To mitigate this issue, you can use file copy tools that do not use cache manager (buffered I/O). This can be done by using the built-in command-line tools listed below:

robocopy \\someserver\someshare c:\somefolder somefile.img /J

or

xcopy \\someserver\someshare c:\somefolder /J

We are working on a resolution and will provide an update in an upcoming release.

January 26, 2023—KB5022360 (OS Build 22621.1194) Preview

Windows Insider Beta Channel only so far:

We fixed an issue that affected copying from a network to a local drive. Copying was slower than expected for some users.

Windows 11 Insider Preview Build 22621.1245 and Build 22623.1245 (KB5022358)

Windows 11 Pro version 22H2 build 22621.1485 + Microsoft 365 + Edge

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satrow

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PC Health Check also won’t tell you Windows 11 compatibility if you use Group Policy to lock the machine to a Windows 10 version.  Message reads, “Your organization manages updates on this PC.”

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were you using the latest version of WhynotWin11, Susan?

a similar problem with WhynotWin11 was reported here for a 12th gen intel cpu listed as “not being compatible” and should have been fixed with the newest version available

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This should be fixed permanently since I swapped to Processor Family Detections. Sorry about that 😅

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Alex5723

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thanks Robert for the 2.5.0.4 version of your WhyNotWin11 app, which seems to handle proper detection of those 12th gen (and maybe 13th gen) intel cpus.

it’s also a cpu detection bug on Microsoft’s end as well and Microsoft has yet to issue a new version of their pc health check app, which they haven’t updated since mid-April 2022.

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