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  • Microsoft’s commitment to twice-a-year updates for Windows 10 and Office 365

    Home Forums AskWoody blog Microsoft’s commitment to twice-a-year updates for Windows 10 and Office 365

    This topic contains 69 replies, has 22 voices, and was last updated by  Kirsty 3 months, 2 weeks ago.

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    • #109779 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      Post coming in InfoWorld.
      [See the full post at: Microsoft’s commitment to twice-a-year updates for Windows 10 and Office 365]

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #109781 Reply

      Seff
      AskWoody Lounger

      I look forward to reading the full article, but presumably the commitment is subject to the user having what MS consider to be the appropriate hardware components!

    • #109791 Reply

      anonymous

      Wouldn’t a 12 month cycle still be too quick but at least manageable?

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #109928 Reply

        anonymous

        Is it safe to skip the feature release and just wait for the next one?

      • #110142 Reply

        Noel Carboni
        AskWoody MVP

        It’d sure be better than 6 months.

        -Noel

    • #109797 Reply

      jescott418
      AskWoody Lounger

      So far none of the features impressed me since day one. The OS is OK but the enthusiasm was killed off with forced updates, apps installed that I don’t want, and major updates still riddled with bugs. Here’s what Microsoft needs to do, set major releases to be deferred at least three months after release. Stop installing stuff we don’t want that cannot be uninstalled and make those optional and available through the Microsoft app store.  Personally I like the ideal of everyone having a option of a long term support version like some Linux distro’s have. That way if your into stability over new features you can stay with a LTS version. Remember how Firefox ruined its reputation with those rapid releases that it couldn’t handle? Well I think Microsoft is going down that same path.

      3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #109800 Reply

      radosuaf
      AskWoody Lounger

      “Windows 7 and 8 both lasted about a decade.” – I’m not an expert on English grammar, but is past tense correct in this sentence?

      MSI H110 PC MATE * Intel Core i5-6402P * 2 x 8 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2133 MHz * Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1050 Ti D5 4G * Samsung 840 EVO 250GB SSD * Western Digital Blue 1TB HDD * Seagate Barracuda 1TB HDD * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer PCI * Windows 8.1 Pro 64-bit + Windows 10 Mobile 1607 (Lumia 735)
      4 users thanked author for this post.
      • #109922 Reply

        Noel Carboni
        AskWoody MVP

        “Windows 7 and 8 both lasted about a decade.” – I’m not an expert on English grammar, but is past tense correct in this sentence?

        If you buy into Microsoft’s hype, those are long dead, “legacy”, useless, insecure, “OMG you’re a dinosaur” operating systems, so yeah, past tense.

        If you’re immune to hype, you just smile and write forum posts to help decompress…

        -Noel

        5 users thanked author for this post.
        • #109924 Reply

          radosuaf
          AskWoody Lounger

          I wouldn’t expect Woody to spread such info, that’s why I’m surprised.

          MSI H110 PC MATE * Intel Core i5-6402P * 2 x 8 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2133 MHz * Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1050 Ti D5 4G * Samsung 840 EVO 250GB SSD * Western Digital Blue 1TB HDD * Seagate Barracuda 1TB HDD * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer PCI * Windows 8.1 Pro 64-bit + Windows 10 Mobile 1607 (Lumia 735)
          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #109932 Reply

            MrJimPhelps
            AskWoody MVP

            I wouldn’t expect Woody to spread such info

            If the info that you’re referring to is that he said that Windows 7 and 8 “both lasted about a decade”, you need to look at the sense of what he said. The support model that Microsoft has employed for a very long time has now changed, even with Windows 7 and 8. Therefore, those products are no longer what they were, but rather have now fundamentally changed with regard to support (supposedly still in effect till 2020 or 2023).

            So yes, 7 and 8 did last “about a decade”, because the 7 & 8 that we have now is fundamentally different than the 7 & 8 that we used to have.

            2 users thanked author for this post.
            Elly, fp
    • #109806 Reply

      abbodi86
      AskWoody MVP

      UWP sucks 🙂

      3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #109966 Reply

        fp
        AskWoody Lounger

        In spades.

        The reality is that MS probably realized at some point that they could not sell UWP on merit, so they had to impose it by hook and crook. This is the current corporate stance: they cannot provide value to customers but have too much power and arrogance to shove cr*ppola down their throat. Welcome to what I call the “Sillicon Valley state”.

         

    • #109825 Reply

      lurks about
      AskWoody Lounger

      After a couple of badly botched, well publicized upgrade fiascos MS will rue the day. Sooner or later a major company or national government will get dead boxes because of this. They will not be very pleased and have the money to go to toe with MS in court.

      MS needs to do something like Canonical does with Ubuntu. Every x years release an LTS version good for y years (Ubuntu x = 2, y = 5). The intermediate releases are supported for less time (Ubuntu released every 6 months, supported for 9 months). This schedule allows those who need stability to have it with the option of using intermediate releases as desired.  Too many need a stable OS for an extended period of time (5+ years).

      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #109832 Reply

        fp
        AskWoody Lounger

        I don’t think there is anybody left at MS who is capable of reason. They have failed in many endeavors and on their way to losing their OS monopoly and desperation is not conducive to reason. Plus, anybody who was capable of it left or was let go. Mediocre mgmt doesn’t need smart people.

      • #109879 Reply

        James Bond 007
        AskWoody Lounger

        MS needs to do something like Canonical does with Ubuntu. Every x years release an LTS version good for y years (Ubuntu x = 2, y = 5). The intermediate releases are supported for less time (Ubuntu released every 6 months, supported for 9 months). This schedule allows those who need stability to have it with the option of using intermediate releases as desired. Too many need a stable OS for an extended period of time (5+ years).

        I would say that Microsoft already dismissed and abandoned the idea that “Too many need a stable OS for an extended period of time (5+ years).” with the release of Windows 10 and its continuous upgrade model. So I believe it is unlikely it will go back.

        Regarding the LTSB (Long Term Servicing Branch), an obvious departure from this strategy, my guess is that Microsoft did not want to offer it, but was forced to do so by large customers.

        Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #109939 Reply

          MrJimPhelps
          AskWoody MVP

          Regarding the LTSB (Long Term Servicing Branch), an obvious departure from this strategy, my guess is that Microsoft did not want to offer it, but was forced to do so by large customers.

          I don’t think LTSB is a departure at all; I think it’s a fundamental part of Microsoft’s strategy. It allows them to keep the big-money customers happy, while establishing this new model (WaaS) for the rest of us. In other words, they can’t afford to run off the big-money customers, so they keep them on the “sane” track. And they are probably using the rest of us as beta testers, so that they will know what will work for the big-money customers.

          2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #109967 Reply

            fp
            AskWoody Lounger

            This is consistent with the PostWest society: only corporations count, humans are are just targets for exploitation.

            2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #109935 Reply

        MrJimPhelps
        AskWoody MVP

        After a couple of badly botched, well publicized upgrade fiascos MS will rue the day. Sooner or later a major company or national government will get dead boxes because of this. They will not be very pleased and have the money to go to toe with MS in court.

        MS needs to do something like Canonical does with Ubuntu. Every x years release an LTS version good for y years (Ubuntu x = 2, y = 5). The intermediate releases are supported for less time (Ubuntu released every 6 months, supported for 9 months). This schedule allows those who need stability to have it with the option of using intermediate releases as desired. Too many need a stable OS for an extended period of time (5+ years).

        I expect that if a lot of dead boxes occur, there will be a lot of movement away from Microsoft and to products like Ubuntu. Ubuntu (and other Linux distros) are getting better and better; and more and more quality software is being produced all the time. If I were going to start a business, I would try very hard to go all Ubuntu, because (1) we would be free from the clutches of Microsoft, and (2) you can purchase support from Canonical.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #109968 Reply

          fp
          AskWoody Lounger

          Only because they have not reached monopoly or oligopoly status. If they do, they’ll behave just like all other corps in that state.

        • #110095 Reply

          anonymous

          The issue for desktop/laptops is they are often used for heavy duty work. The programs used for this work are typically not on an 18 month release cycle, more like every 3 to 5 years with multi year support for each release. Getting a couple of these programs to fail because the OS is wonky will cause much pain and anguish leading to anger at MS’ imbecilic policy.

          2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #110103 Reply

            anonymous

            @ anonymous #110095

            MS apologists (eg job-secured Windows System Admins in a company) will tell affected users to go get Win 10 Ent E5/LTSB Volume Licenses if they wanted longer term OS stability, even though they or their employers/companies have to pay MS thru their nose for such VL.

            P S – For consumers, they can avail themselves of the 90-day Evaluation copy of Win 10 Ent LTSB. After 90 days, the evaluators will be regularly nag-screened by MS to activate.

            satrow edited for content.

            • This reply was modified 5 months ago by  Kirsty.
            • This reply was modified 5 months ago by  Kirsty.
            • This reply was modified 5 months ago by  satrow.
      • #110104 Reply

        Bill C.
        AskWoody Lounger

        Add in a LTS version that is snooping and adware free with controllable updating for a fee and I would GLADLY pay for it!

        Otherwise, Linux is gaining more of my serious work and Windows 7Pro-64 SP1 is just the gaming platform and that which Linux does not cover.

        As for Office, I will stick with Office 2010 PERPETUALLY but use LibreOffice on Linux as my main productivity suite. No cloud for me thank you. That which is connected can be hacked.

        • #110109 Reply

          anonymous

          @ BillC

          M$ will only back down if many businesses/enterprises abandon Win 10 Ent Volume Licenses which ain’t likely gonna happen in 2020/2023 because they have been held captive by the Windows ecosystem. Ent VL and subscriptions is where the Big Money$ is.
          . . . M$ are not really bothered about consumers deserting them for Linux or MacOS because they have a very effective market-monopoly, eg online gamers are tied to Windows.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #109838 Reply

      BobbyB
      AskWoody Lounger

      “Woo Hoo!” Just cant wait here! (Not) 🙁 Well “patch tuesday” is already flagged in Outlook just trying to figure out how to do a twice yearly appointment\warning in Outlook Calender, or will they have an App for that in the “Store?”
      But seriously folks say you like a version of Win10 your actually willing to swear an “oath of undying allegience” to, and goodness knows your going to have a few to choose from; So with the end of the Original Version coming up (1507 in May) how bad are the update/upgrade messages going to get when the support runs out? is it going to be to the point were its unusable as an OS? Much like Win7 if you dont or forget to activate. Or will the silence be deafening so you can get on with your computing in peace & quiet?. I guess we will find out at the end of May, presupposing there are any Original Win 10 version users still left out there.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #109896 Reply

        radosuaf
        AskWoody Lounger

        Actually, I haven’t thought about it. Nagging in W10 to update W10. This might actually be quite fun :).

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      • #109969 Reply

        fp
        AskWoody Lounger

        It probably depends on how many will stick to them. If enuf, such that MS cannot make as much $ of WaaS as they want, they will not hesitate to make old stuff unusable. If just a few, they can ignore us.

    • #109923 Reply

      Noel Carboni
      AskWoody MVP

      Just what we need – more frequent Windows 10 in-place upgrades. That’ll fix everything.

      Am I wrong for thinking managers in Microsoft have acute cases of cranial rectalitis?

      Newsflash, managers: I can re-tweak it in a few days now. Your “continuously undo our tweaks and turn telemetry back on” process isn’t working. Think of me as the guy with the shades in the phone booth telling you how it’s going to start, not how it’s going to end.

      Call trans opt:  Failed

      And regarding Office 365… Too little too late, IMO. Microsoft has blown it – again.

      In 2014 I signed up for an Office 365 rental agreement. I believed them when they said they’d be continuously releasing updates that improved it.

      They didn’t.

      I waited through all of 2014 and most of 2015 and… Crickets. They never even improved their “polar bear in a snowstorm” white on white theme one iota. And what’s up with controls (e.g., scroll bars) that time out and disappear while you’re hovering over them and actually using them?

      I finally gave up and got a new old stock Office 2010 license just before having to renew the O365 lease for a third year. Happiest decision I’ve made. Not a problem since.

      The “continuous improvement” model doesn’t work if there’s just no improvement.

      -Noel

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      • #109926 Reply

        Rock
        AskWoody Lounger

        The “continuous improvement” model doesn’t work if there’s just no improvement.

        – Noel

         

        Just like their effort with Games for Windows Live. What an unmitigated disaster that was, the best thing they did with that was to remove it. Plus how many other endeavors have they just dropped, Windows phone, Zune and I’m sure many many others that I can’t think of right now.

        • This reply was modified 5 months ago by  Rock.
        • This reply was modified 5 months ago by  Rock.
        3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #109946 Reply

        Sessh
        AskWoody Lounger

        Always love your posts, Noel. I read through most of the posts on here and yours are definitely among the most refreshing to read. No bias, no cheerleading, just the truth. It’s hard to believe that there are still so many loyal M$ cheerleaders around here who seem to think M$ can do no wrong and all they do is right and no one should ever alter or complain about anything they do. It boggles the mind and I’m just glad there are more than enough sensible people here to offset them.

        I will be switching to Zorin OS 12 Ultimate very soon and will likely post my experiences switching over. I will be running Win7 in a VM, though. I’ll be doing a lot of stuff I’ve never done before and it’s exciting. Hopefully, it will convince others to take the plunge. I’ve done a lot of research on how to install my programs on Ubuntu and Wine seems to be MUCH better than it used to be. Unix doesn’t look too hard though it does seem a bit pretentious and unnecessarily confusing with some of the commands when compared to DOS.

        Anyway, I’ve decided to make the switch to Linux because I really just can’t trust MS anymore and cannot look the other way with all this garbage they are doing. It’s even more disturbing to me that there are still loads of MS supporters (cheerleaders) who praise MS no matter what they do even in these times; THAT is scary. As for me, it’s time to make the leap. I’ll be doing that thread when I get around to doing the actual leaping soon. Microsoft just can’t be trusted anymore and that’s sad.

        • This reply was modified 5 months ago by  Sessh.
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        • #109954 Reply

          MrJimPhelps
          AskWoody MVP

          I’ve already made the switch to Xubuntu Linux for the same reasons as you. I’m very pleased with it; just about everything works well; but there are a few things which don’t work, so I keep Windows 7 around just in case; and my wife has Windows 8.1 on her laptop.

          I have Windows 7 and Office 2007 installed in an Oracle Virtual Box session in Xubuntu. Still working out some issues there.

          One thing that really intrigues me is the “Seamless” feature in Virtual Box, which will apparently allow me to run MS Office (and other programs installed in the VB) seamlessly in Linux, I guess by clicking on icons in my Linux desktop, and then the programs running seemingly natively in Linux.

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          • #109964 Reply

            anonymous

            @ MrJimPhelps

            Did you install the Guest Additions for your Win 7 virtual machine in VirtualBox ?

            • #110089 Reply

              MrJimPhelps
              AskWoody MVP

              I have not yet installed Guest Additions. I have the feeling that the handful of issues I am having might be easier to resolve once I do that.

          • #110147 Reply

            JohnW
            AskWoody Lounger

            Jim, to use seamless desktop, first install the guest additions.  On your VM menu, click on Devices > Insert Guest Additions CD Image…

            It might autorun.  If not, you can find it in Windows Explorer and run the exe.

            It shouldn’t take very long to install, and I usually reboot a VM after installing guest additions.

            With the additions installed you can invoke Full Screen Mode with “Host+F”, Seamless Mode with “Host+L”, or Scaled Mode with “Host+C”.  The right hand Ctrl key = “Host”.

            In Seamless Mode you will see the VM guest’s taskbar as a second taskbar above your Host OS taskbar.  To make this hide, just go into your guest and set the taskbar to auto-hide.  To make it pop-up again, just wiggle your mouse in this zone.

            You now have an invisible guest window overlay on your host desktop.  If you use the start menu from the guest, you can launch any guest app and see the app window on your desktop.  If you already had an app open when you switched to seamless, it will show up as well.

            To move from a host app window to a guest app window, all you need to do is click with the mouse.  The focus will follow your mouse automatically.  It’s weird the first time when you realize you are running two computers all blended onto one desktop!  🙂

        • #109960 Reply

          anonymous

          @ Sessh

          AFAIK, Wine mostly supports older Win XP-era programs, ie pre-2006. IOW, many Windows programs developed after 2006 or 2009(= Win 7-era) do not work in Wine. Most likely, it’s because of lack of Wine developers/maintainers who had to work for free.

          • #110297 Reply

            anonymous

            @ Sessh

            Continuing from above, the paid-software Crossover by Codeweaver(= US$30 per license), has much better support for running Windows programs in Linux, ie can run most Windows programs. …
            https://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility

            In comparison, a Win 7/8.1/10 virtual machine usually costs US$120 per Retail license.(the Retail Pro edition costs about US$200)

            Or Win 7/8.1/10 users can just dual-boot with Linux or run a Linux virtual machine.

      • #109972 Reply

        fp
        AskWoody Lounger

        Get used to the idea that corps are no longer in business to serve their customers, but to exploit them. They no longer just control govt, they ARE the govt. So there is no body in the current corporate welfare state to protect the individual — the state has become corporate and expecting any outcome other than exploitation is delusional.

    • #109931 Reply

      AlexEiffel
      AskWoody Lounger

      I don’t blame MS too much for trying many things, in a way you could say they foster a creative environment, but what I have a problem with is what Noel talked about earlier. They don’t make a distinction between OS features, which should be very stable and for which you shouldn’t have to always check if something you don’t want happened or changed, and ice cream OS apps on top.

      If they did, they could put all the rest of the bloat as easy opt-out in an regrouped list of optional Windows install features. You could then quickly disable anything you don’t want between each version of Windows. You could also be less fearful of trying that not so quite new anymore feature knowing that if you don’t like it, you can simply remove it quickly.

      The problem is MS has this annoying habit of integrating everything too tightly within the OS and then you don’t know if other parts of the OS depends on it, it becomes difficult to manage all that.

      So many features they created they dropped before even giving them a chance to become good. They go too fast, do too many things bad instead of focusing resources where it is much needed. If they really wanted their new model of Store Apps to take off, why Photos App is still not color managed while they worked on the stupid Paint 3D that nobody asked. Focus! The essential apps have been replaced by subpar store versions, not a great way to win customers. I guess you could make the parallel with the criticism on Linux Desktop that new and improved GUI were sometimes much worse and new and they go to the next worse and new before the last one is excellent and barely good enough.

      4 users thanked author for this post.
      • #109973 Reply

        fp
        AskWoody Lounger

        Yes, but that’s only natural if they realized that all this bloat nobody wants and they can’t sell — everybody will opt out — so they MUST shove it down throats in order to justify staying in business.

        Do you really believe that they would have needed to engage in all this cr*ppola if they could develop highly desirable stuff that would sell?

        • #110062 Reply

          AlexEiffel
          AskWoody Lounger

          Maybe, but I think they don’t need to sell Windows.

          They could just lower costs of maintenance and development and people would be happy to buy the about same reliable Windows when they change computer. Nobody will upgrade for features of the OS at home anymore. They upgrade when they buy a new computer. MS don’t need to sell their business.Yes they might make more money by taking your personal data from Cortana and Edge, but by not providing an opt-out, they risk alienating users. They might have calculated that the majority will stay and they will milk more money from them that they loose from others.

          As for businesses, they would be happy to pay yearly for a hassle-free experience focused on the features that add value only, which if they are not too small and are managed they already can with Enterprise version, maybe.

      • #110096 Reply

        anonymous

        MS has a long history of ‘integrating’ non-core features into the OS. This has always led to problems with non-essential features causing very serious security problems which are difficult to kill. Linux and BSD follow a different model, there are core functions of the OS such as internet connection, handling ports, basic audio/video output, and devices (printer, scanner, etc.). Anything such as browser or media player is supplied by another program such as Firefox, Chromium, or VLC. These other programs are not coupled to the OS and can be easily removed or be substituted for without degrading the OS. In fact the desktops and window managers in Linux are not tightly coupled to the OS. It is fairly easy to have multiple desktops available on Linux.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #110693 Reply

          rc primak
          AskWoody Lounger

          And yet, Ubuntu (and all Linux) has a very unstable Bluetooth Stack. XSane is a terrible utility when used with networked (wireless) scanners, especially all-in-ones. And when will Linux support Intel WiDi or Microsoft Miracast? (Android has had Cast which works with many Miracast dongles for years now.) Then there are the ongoing troubles with NVidia graphics drivers. These are all Linux kernel issues, and no one in their Dev Community seems to take the slightest interest in fixing what’s broken. Instead, Linus Torvalds makes crude finger gestures at the manufacturers of the hardware the Linux Devs can’t seem to figure out. Vey helpful — NOT!

          Instead of fixing these kernel issues, Ubuntu wasted years of Dev time on Unity and Convergence, which no one wanted and which was definitely not part of the core OS functionality. SystemD is still a work in progress, and don’t get me started with comments about the Mir disaster. I have yet to find one useful “Snap”. In fact, most of these little apps don’t even work on Ubuntu in my recently-built Intel NUC PC.

          Windows is far from alone in trying to expand its overreach and trying to monetize the OS, while neglecting the core OS functions.

          I say this as a person who vastly prefers using desktop Linux over desktop Windows 10 Pro.  If only entertainment sites and apps would be developed to work with Linux, I might not see Windows 10 at all except around the week before Patch Tuesday.

          -- rc primak

    • #109953 Reply

      anonymous

      Microsoft’s commitment to twice-a-year updates for Windows 10

      WHY ?

      Let’s look at some history.

      After out-competing Apple MacOS, by the 2000s, MS-Windows achieved an effective market-monopoly of about 90%. Most businesses/companies/enterprises(BCE) were held captive by the Windows ecosystem, eg many specialized business software are only available for Windows.

      Before the era of Win 10, many BCE preferred to buy Win XP/Vista/7/8 Ent Volume Licenses(VL) outright and use them for about 10 years, ie until EOL, before they upgrade to the next Windows version = very cost-effective.
      . . For eg, use Win XP Ent from 2001 until 2013 before upgrading to Win 7 Ent – planning to use Win 7 Ent until 2020. Win 8 Ent was practically unusable.

      Some less well-off BCE, eg start-ups, preferred the cheaper option of leasing/renting/subscribing Win XP/Vista/7/8 Ent Volume Licenses(= MS’s Enterprise Agreements) but which requires the buying of Software Assurance/Insurance(SA) for a term of 3 years = free Windows upgrade within 3 years.
      . . SA costs 29% of the full VL fee per year – 3 years = 87%. So, if the BCE upgrade to the newer Windows version within 3 years, they “save” more than 13%. SA was a money-earner for MS. Hence, MS strived to come out with new Windows versions about one every 3 years even though it may not be really needed, eg Win Vista and Win 8.

      BCE who paid more money upfront to buy Windows VL did not have to buy SA. So, in 2014, MS arbitrarily changed the rule, requiring new Windows Ent VL buyers to also buy SA for at least once.
      . .
      . .
      Now with Win 10’s twice a year upgrades, BCE who buys Win 10 Ent VL will no longer be able to use them for 10 years until EOL, unless they buy the much more expensive(= double the price) Win 10 Ent E5 VL which can be converted to LTSB = supported by MS for 10 years, ie Win 10 Ent E3 VL which can only be converted to CBB, will be supported by MS for about 24 months only = gotta upgrade to a newer Win 10 Ent version and pay MS for new VL.
      . . Eg if a BCE had bought the Win 10 Ent E3 RTM/1507 VL sometime soon after 29 July 2015, they will have to buy new VL for Win 10 Ent E3 Version 1703 in May 2017(= EOL for Version 1507).

      BCE who prefer to lease/rent/subscribe can continue to do so by subscribing to Win 10 Ent E3 or E5 VL at US$84 or US$168 per year per user/employee, respectively. Like Office 365 subscribers, they have no problems upgrading to the next Win 10 Ent version, eg Version 1703 = perpetual support from MS as long as you pay your subscriptions.
      . . E5 VL subscribers cannot convert to LTSB, eg for more stability.

      With the above changes, buyers of Win 10 Ent E3 VL will be pushed by MS to go on the subscription model or pay double to buy Ent E5 VL/LTSB.

      5 users thanked author for this post.
      • #109978 Reply

        fp
        AskWoody Lounger

        Yup. And who is there to stop them?

        If you monitor carefully what is coming out of corps these days, I see practically nothing that’s intended to be of value to customers, only ways to extract money from them for things they don’t need or want. They want RENT money — streams for doing nothing.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #109975 Reply

      AlexEiffel
      AskWoody Lounger

      I just read that

      “[O]ur customers want more predictability and simplicity from this update servicing model to help make deployments and updates of Microsoft products easier,” general manager Bernado Caldas. … The updates will take place in March and September of each year, and each will be supported by Microsoft for 18 months.

      So, customers want more predictability and simplicity, which means accelerating releases ? Having to release so often like this will put so much pressure on developers that they will have more unpolished things out for each release. This is just so not in line with good development practices, unless they really stop trying to sell every feature upgrade and make them barely noticeable instead of trying to reinvent the wheel each time.

       

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      • #109983 Reply

        Rock
        AskWoody Lounger

        OMG they chose March as one of the times for the updates? LMAO!!! Ya I’m sure every business wants to have their computers go through upgrading into a less stable working environment at the end of the fiscal year…every year.

         

        The stupidity of this approach baffles me lol.

        4 users thanked author for this post.
        • #109989 Reply

          Noel Carboni
          AskWoody MVP

          To be fair, the CB to CBB transition will probably occur a few months after, when the unwashed masses have fully beta tested it.

          -Noel

          1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #109994 Reply

          MrJimPhelps
          AskWoody MVP

          March is right in the middle of tax season in the US! A whole bunch of people are frantically working on their taxes in March, and a whole lot of tax prep companies are frantically working on other people’s taxes in March!

          It will be interesting to see what happens with everybody’s taxes in March of 2018 when a major update to Windows is all of a sudden pushed down to a huge number of Windows 10 computers.

          • #110003 Reply

            anonymous

            @ JimPhelps

            Maybe, MS timed it “nicely” for the March tax season every year, in order to push Win 10 Home users and new computer buyers onto Win 10 Pro because only Win 10 Pro can be on CBB = can defer feature updates or upgrades for up to 12 months maximum.

            • #110064 Reply

              MrJimPhelps
              AskWoody MVP

              I honestly don’t think they did this on purpose. I think they are so arrogant that they don’t even realize that they have set off a potential time bomb for everyone who is doing their taxes.

              If they had realized that, they could have pushed the update to May rather than doing it in March.

          • #110695 Reply

            rc primak
            AskWoody Lounger

            I fail to see this as less convenient than Ubuntu Linux always pushing their new LTS releases in April. For many, this could be just as damaging to their “relationship” with the IRS.

            -- rc primak

        • #110106 Reply

          Bill C.
          AskWoody Lounger

          Nothing like having a buggy update right before tax time. Adios data. Wait until a March ‘upgrade’ version does not work seamlessly with a user’s TurboTax for that year. But maybe a 4 letter storm is what is needed.

        • #110461 Reply

          Karlston
          AskWoody Lounger

          If the March update is as buggy as the previous ones, perhaps the IRS  will accept the excuse “The March Windows 10 Feature Update ate my Tax Return.”. 🙂

          Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #110697 Reply

            rc primak
            AskWoody Lounger

            As long as you prepay the estimated taxes, there are extension forms. The IRS is happy to sit on your money until the OS regains some measure of stability.

            -- rc primak

    • #110151 Reply

      JohnW
      AskWoody Lounger

      One thing that really intrigues me is the “Seamless” feature in Virtual Box, which will apparently allow me to run MS Office (and other programs installed in the VB) seamlessly in Linux, I guess by clicking on icons in my Linux desktop, and then the programs running seemingly natively in Linux.

      When you run MS Office in “Seamless” mode, it is still executing in Windows, rather than natively in Linux.  This actually works much better than Wine or Crossover, which actually attempts to run Windows apps under Linux.  The native method is very convoluted with compatibility many issues.

      It is just through the magic of VirtualBox that the Windows guest can appear on your Linux desktop, where you can interact with it via keyboard. mouse, and screen.

      Running in a VM, you are running the actual full Windows OS, not just a compatibility layer or an emulator inside of Linux.  🙂

      3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #110168 Reply

        Noel Carboni
        AskWoody MVP

        I wonder if “seamless” is just a name, or actually makes the programs well-integrated.

        A truly seamless experience would be one where very nearly every metaphor of the native desktop is respected, e.g., copy/paste, drag/drop, file-open/save being able to see the native file system, etc.

        Virtualization is a very powerful thing; I use it (VMware) all the time, but I just run entire systems in virtual machines without trying to use modes that attempt to integrate the software running in the VM with the host system’s user interface. The latter would be very interesting if – and only if – they pull off the integration very well and the system is powerful enough that the software runs well in the VM.

        -Noel

      • #110172 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        I am running Windows (XP, 7, 8.1, 10AU and 10Insider) in Parallels VMs on various Macs. The equivalent of Seamless on VB is “Coherence Mode” in Parallels. If you share them, you can run Win applications on the Mac and Mac on Win.
        You can choose “Full Screen” where you do a three-finger slide between the two OSs running MacOS on Mac and Win OS on Win VM. If you do Coherence, it actually runs Win in the background and imposes the window for your MS app on the Mac screen. This works good for things like Word, etc.
        The one place I found that it doesn’t work, is when I’m running the scoring for the sport of diving. I have to run Windows in Full Screen Mode. But that is a weird setup. I am running MeetControl software to control the whole operation (a Win app). On my laptop I connect a mini display port second monitor for leaderboard on the scoring table, a USB to RS232 adapter (virtual COM port) to connect to the Dactronics console that runs the scoreboard, a USB printer, a wired RJ45 to upload the scores to the Internet. It may be the load on the computer that requires the Full Screen or maybe all the connections have to be controlled locally.

        • This reply was modified 5 months ago by  PKCano.
    • #110170 Reply

      JohnW
      AskWoody Lounger

      I wonder if “seamless” is just a name, or actually makes the programs well-integrated. A truly seamless experience would be one where very nearly every metaphor of the native desktop is respected, e.g., copy/paste, drag/drop, file-open/save being able to see the native file system, etc. Virtualization is a very powerful thing; I use it (VMware) all the time, but I just run entire systems in virtual machines without trying to use modes that attempt to integrate the software running in the VM with the host system’s user interface. The latter would be very interesting if – and only if – they pull off the integration very well and the system is powerful enough that the software runs well in the VM. -Noel

      There is no integration.  It is an illusion.  The VM hypervisor allows your input/output devices to be shared simultaneously with both host and guest.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #110171 Reply

      JohnW
      AskWoody Lounger

      I wonder if “seamless” is just a name, or actually makes the programs well-integrated. A truly seamless experience would be one where very nearly every metaphor of the native desktop is respected, e.g., copy/paste, drag/drop, file-open/save being able to see the native file system, etc. Virtualization is a very powerful thing; I use it (VMware) all the time, but I just run entire systems in virtual machines without trying to use modes that attempt to integrate the software running in the VM with the host system’s user interface. The latter would be very interesting if – and only if – they pull off the integration very well and the system is powerful enough that the software runs well in the VM. -Noel

      I used VMWare Player for a while before switching to VirtualBox.  It has a similar mode called “Unity Mode”

      https://pubs.vmware.com/workstation-9/index.jsp?topic=%2Fcom.vmware.ws.using.doc%2FGUID-8C477788-7700-4030-8C4A-039C02AABB74.html

    • #110174 Reply

      JohnW
      AskWoody Lounger

      I wonder if “seamless” is just a name, or actually makes the programs well-integrated. A truly seamless experience would be one where very nearly every metaphor of the native desktop is respected, e.g., copy/paste, drag/drop, file-open/save being able to see the native file system, etc. Virtualization is a very powerful thing; I use it (VMware) all the time, but I just run entire systems in virtual machines without trying to use modes that attempt to integrate the software running in the VM with the host system’s user interface. The latter would be very interesting if – and only if – they pull off the integration very well and the system is powerful enough that the software runs well in the VM. -Noel

      In addition to the seamless view mode, VirtualBox Guest Additions will allow you full bi-directional copy/paste clipboard and drag and drop, as well as designating shared folders on the host that you can read/write/open/save from the guest (they appear as network drives on the guest).

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #110194 Reply

      SueW
      AskWoody Lounger

      I finally gave up and got a new old stock Office 2010 license just before having to renew the O365 lease for a third year. Happiest decision I’ve made. Not a problem since.

      @Noel, I’m with you on Office 2010, which I purchased in late 2014 when I bought my Win7 64-bit HE system.  However, I just read the following on another forum [https://www.giveawayoftheday.com/forums/topic/466843]:

       

      Digging into the details of a Microsoft announcement on the formal Windows 10 & Office 365 development cycles, Thurrott found: “… an interesting statement of the end-of-life of traditional Office as we know it.”

      “Starting October 13, 2020 … Office perpetual in mainstream support will be required to connect to Office 365 services,” the firm noted. “We’re providing more than three years’ notice to give IT time to plan and budget for this change. Until this new requirement goes into effect in 2020, Office 2010, Office 2013 and Office 2016 perpetual clients will still be able to connect to Office 365 services.”

      petri[.]com/paul-thurrotts-short-takes-april-21

      Win 7 SP1 Home Premium 64-bit; Office 2010; Group B; Former 'Tech Weenie'

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #110213 Reply

        Rock
        AskWoody Lounger

        I suppose if your Office 2010, 2013 and 2016 is not being used with the Office 365 services, as in not needing or wanting them, then you’ll be just fine. Hopefully, if not then there is always open office and the like lol.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #110215 Reply

        MrJimPhelps
        AskWoody MVP

        I’m doing two things to get ready for that:

        1. Learning Libre Office.

        2. Running Windows 7 and MS Office in a virtual box, inside of my Linux host system, with the VB unconnected to the internet (and therefore not in need of any Windows or Office updates).

        If Microsoft continues to push me away, I’ll leave. At least I have a little time to get ready for the parting.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #110216 Reply

        Kirsty
        AskWoody MVP

        From Office 365 System Requirements Change for Office:
        https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/Office-365-Blog/Office-365-system-requirements-changes-for-Office-client/bc-p/64089

         

        Effective October 13th, 2020, Office 365 will only allow Office client connectivity from subscription clients (Office 365 ProPlus) or Office perpetual clients within mainstream support to connect to Office 365 services.


        Connectivity to Office 365
        : Office desktop clients outside mainstream support not using Office 365

        Impact of change: No change

        Technical implications: Set your own desktop upgrade timeline, in line with your on-premises server upgrades. When planning to move to Office 365 services, an Office client upgrade will be required

        Recommended actions: No action required

        Browser and Mobile Apps
        : No change and no action required

         
        For now, the key takeaway is: Office 365 ProPlus is our recommended Office client for Office 365 users. This is the Office client that stays up to date with frequent feature releases and ensures the best service experience.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #110700 Reply

      rc primak
      AskWoody Lounger

      To be clear, it’s not like Microsoft is changing their basic strategy on upgrades.

      What they did was to take the number of eight months, which could get very messy for enterprise customers, and make it more in line with the yearly cycles which most businesses maintain for other upgrades. The choice of March and October lines up with the longstanding tradition of introducing new OS and hardware upgrades in October. This has been industry practice for years if not decades. So the timing of the other upgrade date had to be March or April.  No other logic seems to have been applied. Unfortunately.

      -- rc primak

    • #110896 Reply

      JohnW
      AskWoody Lounger

      And yet, Ubuntu (and all Linux) has a very unstable Bluetooth Stack. XSane is a terrible utility when used with networked (wireless) scanners, especially all-in-ones. And when will Linux support Intel WiDi or Microsoft Miracast? (Android has had Cast which works with many Miracast dongles for years now.) Then there are the ongoing troubles with NVidia graphics drivers. These are all Linux kernel issues, and no one in their Dev Community seems to take the slightest interest in fixing what’s broken. Instead, Linus Torvalds makes crude finger gestures at the manufacturers of the hardware the Linux Devs can’t seem to figure out. Vey helpful — NOT! Instead of fixing these kernel issues, Ubuntu wasted years of Dev time on Unity and Convergence, which no one wanted and which was definitely not part of the core OS functionality. SystemD is still a work in progress, and don’t get me started with comments about the Mir disaster. I have yet to find one useful “Snap”. In fact, most of these little apps don’t even work on Ubuntu in my recently-built Intel NUC PC. Windows is far from alone in trying to expand its overreach and trying to monetize the OS, while neglecting the core OS functions. I say this as a person who vastly prefers using desktop Linux over desktop Windows 10 Pro. If only entertainment sites and apps would be developed to work with Linux, I might not see Windows 10 at all except around the week before Patch Tuesday.

      Ubuntu is not “all” Linux.  At least there is a choice you can make.  With Windows, there is Microsoft, Microsoft, or Microsoft … 😉

      I ditched Ubuntu (Debian based) a couple of years ago, because it seems they may be as misguided as Microsoft.

      So if you like the Debian style Linux and package manager, either go upstream to Debian itself, or use Mint Linux that is adapted from Ubuntu.  At least Mint offers a sane desktop UI.

      I started with Red Hat 9 and Fedora, and that is a solid distro, but the RPM package manager just doesn’t click with me.  The choices there now would be Fedora (frequent updates) or CentOS (a free version of RHEL, long term support and stability).

      • #113193 Reply

        rc primak
        AskWoody Lounger

        Upstreaming to Debian is a lot of work, and I don’t want to work that hard in my old age. Ubuntu is much easier to maintain and to use, and its applications usually just work without a lot of Command Line tweaking or recompiling from source or binaries.

        My comparison is with Windows, since so many Windows users seem to think that if only they would go over to a Windows-like Linux distro, all their troubles would be over. Not so fast!

        -- rc primak

        • #113223 Reply

          JohnW
          AskWoody Lounger

          Mint works so well for me now I can’t recall the last time I opened a command prompt.  🙂

          But I might do so today, just for old times sake …

    • #119616 Reply

      Kirsty
      AskWoody MVP

      computerworld.com’s Gregg Keizer has published an update.

       
      FAQ: How Microsoft plans to upgrade Office 365
      Changes tempo and support lifecycle of Office 365 ProPlus to sync with Windows 10

      By Gregg Keizer | Jun 6, 2017

       
      Read the article here

    Please follow the -Lounge Rules- no personal attacks, no swearing, and politics/religion are relegated to the Rants forum.

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