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  • MS-DEFCON 2: Patching conflicts with Sophos and Avast are getting better, but Avira’s a no-show. Don’t patch.

    Home Forums AskWoody blog MS-DEFCON 2: Patching conflicts with Sophos and Avast are getting better, but Avira’s a no-show. Don’t patch.

    This topic contains 55 replies, has 17 voices, and was last updated by  PKCano 5 months ago.

    • Author
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    • #467922 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      It’s still much too early to install the April patches. Details coming in Computerworld Woody on Windows. I’m moving us down to MS-DEFCON 2: Patch rel
      [See the full post at: MS-DEFCON 2: Patching conflicts with Sophos and Avast are getting better, but Avira’s a no-show. Don’t patch.]

      5 users thanked author for this post.
    • #472648 Reply

      anonymous

      Encouraged by comments from a fellow Panda AV user on one of the earlier threads about the April 2019 updates, after making system partition backups for W7 Home Premium and W8.1 Pro (dual-booting) for both 32 bit and 64 bit PCs I took the plunge and updated with the Security Only (SO) and IE updates from the Windows Catalog.

      For W7 I have Panda AV running in parallel with Malwarebytes Antimalware Premium and everything looks OK after the updates. As noted in the earlier thread there was a 2nd reboot for the SO update (at the login window after the 1st reboot).

      For W8.1 I only have Panda AV and again everything looks OK. The occasional Windows Explorer problem which re-appears every few months with a windows update did not re-appear this month. There was only 1 reboot with the SO update. The IE updating did take a long time to get started (delayed at the “searching for updates …” stage), but completed eventually.

      BTW: I had been a satisfied Avira user for many years until a couple of years ago when I found it was then making my old PCs very slow. I tried rebuilding the PC s/w again from scratch, but it was still slow. I was also annoyed by their “Launcher/Connect” adware thing which they kept forcibly installing although I tried to uninstall it – malware behaviour itself.

      HTH. Garbo.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #472853 Reply

      anonymous

      If this is only affecting some makers’ security software then maybe it’s safer to wait and see but I have applied  the patches to my HP probook(Windows 7 Pro laptop) and I have always used the security only patches since MS started its cumulative/all in one style patching in Oct 2016.

      I’m running Norton Security Suite(ISP’s version provided to customers as part of service) and have had no issues after the updates where installed. I’ll wait longer for my other laptops to apply the updates but I have not read about any other non Security Software related issues with MS’s April 2019 patches on windows 7.

      Maybe Microsoft and the Security Software Folks need to get on the same page regarding security patches and testing for any Security Software issues with any MS OS/API or application patching. The Security Software folks make use of many OS Kernel/API hooks and maybe they should have some representatives that are stationed at MS’s patching division headquarters(if there still is a Patching and/or Q/A and Q/C headquarters) to see that their respective Security Suites have no issues.

      Making use of any Undocumented OS/Kernel/API hooks appears to be an ongoing issue with Security Software so maybe that process needs to change in the future. But Microsoft needs to make sure that it maitains some Proper and Well Documented/Well Maintained OS/Kernel/API hooks for the third party security software providors to access and properly protect the consumer’s PCs/Laptops that make use of MS’s various OS/API ecosystems.

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #473485 Reply

      EP
      AskWoody_MVP

      hi woody.

      do you believe this new article from Softpedia news about the KB4493509 update?

      https://news.softpedia.com/news/windows-10-cumulative-update-kb4493509-antivirus-issue-fixed-525682.shtml

      seems that ArcaBit has released a software update for their antivirus software that now works with the KB4493509 update for Win10 1809.

      and remember that article by Avira titled “Why does my system run very slow”? Avira seems to have recently pulled that KB article as it now produces a 404 not found error message.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #473679 Reply

        woody
        Da Boss

        I’m afraid I don’t know enough about ArcaBit to weigh in on their announcements.

        As for the Avira article, yep, it’s been yanked. (See the Computerworld article.) No idea what’s happening.

    • #474802 Reply

      PKCano
      Da Boss

      There are those who blame the AVs for the problems that occurred. And I have to say that the use of illegal APIs and hooks into the kernel should not be excused.

      But we are talking about several major AVs here, on millions of PCs everywhere. Microsoft does not give the AV manufacturers access to Windows patches ahead of time. So they have no way to test what is coming.

      But Microsoft most certainly has access to the major AVs programs. All the time. And they have the ability to block them from the updates. In fact, they did so after the fact. It wasn’t only consumers that were effected as many businesses felt the impact as well.

      There is no excuse for Microsoft allowing a major problem like this to occur – unless they are just plain negligent or just don’t care about their customers (or maybe both).

      10 users thanked author for this post.
      • #476612 Reply

        agoldhammer
        AskWoody Plus

        There are those who blame the AVs for the problems that occurred. And I have to say that the use of illegal APIs and hooks into the kernel should not be excused. But we are talking about several major AVs here, on millions of PCs everywhere. Microsoft does not give the AV manufacturers access to Windows patches ahead of time. So they have no way to test what is coming. But Microsoft most certainly has access to the major AVs programs. All the time. And they have the ability to block them from the updates. In fact, they did so after the fact. It wasn’t only consumers that were effected as many businesses felt the impact as well. There is no excuse for Microsoft allowing a major problem like this to occur – unless they are just plain negligent or just don’t care about their customers (or maybe both).

        Is it Microsoft’s job to look for compatibility issues for all software or just AV products?  Adobe refused to support Lightroom on Windows 8.1 after a dll fix on a Microsoft update caused issues.  I was forced to update to Windows 10 because that’s what Adobe supports these days.  I’m sympathetic to users who ran into problems with the patches but I’m not sure that Microsoft is wholly to blame here.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #483475 Reply

        GreatAndPowerfulTech
        AskWoody Lounger

        They AV makers have access to previews of upcoming patches. Do they utilize them? Who knows.

        GreatAndPowerfulTech

        • #488136 Reply

          PKCano
          Da Boss

          The Previews contain only the non-security updates for the upcoming Rollup. Since this problem also affected the upcoming Security-only updates (upcoming security patches are not included in the Previews), the use of the Previews would not have shown the problems. The AVs did not have access to the patches ahead of time.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #487792 Reply

        lurks about
        AskWoody Lounger

        PKCano, MS ultimately is responsible for their updates not major or minor AV vendors. The AV vendors may be partially at fault but the companies we are talking about are long time, well known vendors. I would expect there to be some sort of relationship between the major vendors and MS to avoid these issues.

        But one has to take this latest mess in context with other update fiascoes from MS. The regularity of the problems seems to point to internal problems at MS as the root cause. You have to ask what is the common denominator over the last couple of years of nasty surprises from the updates. Not all the problems had anything to do with AV software but all had in common MS. From my vantage point I cannot pin down the root cause. But the apparent lack of effort to solve the problem is even more troubling.

        So to your question, I would say it is more indifference caused by changing internal focus away from the desktop to cloud and more purely enterprise software. Couple this with a complete misunderstanding of the OS market and user needs and you get a recipe for an ongoing, slow motion disaster. For those caught up in it, it will be painful at best to suffer through it.

        • #508456 Reply

          Alex5723
          AskWoody Plus

          Until Microsoft is sued for $Trillion in damages (which is just a fraction of damages caused by Windows/office damages over the years), Microsoft won’t change its attitude.

      • #505306 Reply

        anonymous

        I personally just have a problem with any features breaking during extended support. One of the main reasons to stick with extended support versions is to avoid the churn that happens with the constant updates.

        The reason I’m on Windows 7 is to avoid the problems they have with a constantly changing codebase that needs semiannual replacements just to function. I would have been on Windows 10 if they had just had incremental updates the whole time that did not constantly have issues. They could have done less work and had more uptake.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #478152 Reply

      b
      AskWoody Plus

      I’m still astounded by the indifference.

      What indifference?

      Knuckle dragger Cannon fodder Chump Daft glutton Idiot Crazy/Ignorant Toxic drinker Blockhead Unwashed mass Seeker/Sucker "Ancient/Obsolete" (Group ASAP) Win10 v.1903

    • #479054 Reply

      Charlie
      AskWoody Plus

      Avast owns and produces AVG antivirus.  I’m wondering if AVG is affected by this too.

      Win 7 Home Premium, x64, Intel i3-2120 3.3GHz, Groups B & L

    • #479822 Reply

      OscarCP
      AskWoody Plus

      According to the Computerworld article: ” Microsoft says that it’s still blocking the six bad actors from installing on computers with Sophos Endpoint installed. There’s no similar advice for Avast.

      I’ve only heard of four “bad actors”. Now there are six? But altogether seven, when Avast was still one of them (if that is what the quote means)? Which ones are they now? Just curious. Not in any need or hurry to install this month’s Security Only patch.

       

      Group B Win 7 Pro SP1 x64, and  also M&L

      Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group B & macOS + Linux (Mint) => Win7 Group W + Mac&Lx

      • #479975 Reply

        woody
        Da Boss

        “Six bad actors” refers to the six patches listed in the article.

        • #480356 Reply

          OscarCP
          AskWoody Plus

          Thanks! Got it.

          Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group B & macOS + Linux (Mint) => Win7 Group W + Mac&Lx

    • #489005 Reply

      EP
      AskWoody_MVP

      https://answers.avira.com/en/question/explorer-freeze-during-update-win10-82695

      two program version updates from Avira such as 15.0.45.1154 & 15.0.45.1165 and still these new versions don’t play well with the KB4493509 update from MS.

      either uninstall the KB4493509 update OR uninstall the Avira antivirus program entirely and use another AV program that works with KB4493509

      seems like MS has to fix their own code with a newer CU for win10 v1809

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #490092 Reply

        b
        AskWoody Plus

        https://answers.avira.com/en/question/explorer-freeze-during-update-win10-82695

        two program version updates from Avira such as 15.0.45.1154 & 15.0.45.1165 and still these new versions don’t play well with the KB4493509 update from MS.

        either uninstall the KB4493509 update OR uninstall the Avira antivirus program entirely and use another AV program that works with KB4493509

        seems like MS has to fix their own code with a newer CU for win10 v1809

        But the person who started that thread said they don’t have that MS update installed and their problems with Avira updates started seven weeks earlier.

        Knuckle dragger Cannon fodder Chump Daft glutton Idiot Crazy/Ignorant Toxic drinker Blockhead Unwashed mass Seeker/Sucker "Ancient/Obsolete" (Group ASAP) Win10 v.1903

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #495065 Reply

        woody
        Da Boss

        And I’m still completely at a loss….

    • #491225 Reply

      gborn
      AskWoody_MVP

      and remember that article by Avira titled “Why does my system run very slow”? Avira seems to have recently pulled that KB article as it now produces a 404 not found error message.

      The article has been deleted – now only am empty site with ‘was this article helpful’ is displayed. But I received a comment from an AVIRA user to an article I wrote yesterday about the topic in German news site Heise. The reader claims, that his issues are gonce since hours, although Avira and the update are still installed in Windows 7. He suppose a ‘secret Avira update’ – and another user confirmed that. I’ve compiled more details within my blog post Windows patchday issues–one week later (April 17, 2019)

      4 users thanked author for this post.
    • #508560 Reply

      rontpxz81
      AskWoody Lounger

      I think it’s the responsibility of the anti-virus companies to test their products when there are Windows updates- or perhaps they don’t really want to support Windows 7 anymore.  I have Norton and installed all of this months updates with no problems.

      • #508613 Reply

        PKCano
        Da Boss

        See #474802 and #488136 above. The AVs don’t have access ahead of patch issue.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #541590 Reply

          rontpxz81
          AskWoody Lounger

          The antivirus companies do have access to the monthly rollup preview that they could test.

          • #541709 Reply

            PKCano
            Da Boss

            The Preview is a non-security patch. It does NOT contain the next month’s security Updates.

            Since this affected both the next month’s Rollup AND Security-only patches, the problem was in the SECURITY part of the update and would thus NOT be in the Preview.

            The AVs would NOT have had access.

            1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #541827 Reply

          jabeattyauditor
          AskWoody Lounger

          See #474802 and #488136 above. The AVs don’t have access ahead of patch issue.

          I don’t want them to have access – do you?

          • #542240 Reply

            PKCano
            Da Boss

            The question wasn’t whether I would want the AVs to have access or not.

            The question was who COULD have tested ahead of time to recognize/prevent the problem that was caused. My contention is, that Microsoft COULD have realized the outcome (and who knows, they may have) and prevented the havoc, but the AVs could not.

            2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #508858 Reply

      geekdom
      AskWoody Plus

      The problem with outside vendor anti-virus software suggests that in the future, only Microsoft software and Microsoft officially-supported software will run without error.

      Group G{ot backup} TestBeta
      Win7Pro · x64 · SP1 · i3-3220 · RAM 8GB · Firefox: uBlock Origin - NoScript · HDD · Canon Printer · Microsoft Security Essentials · Windows: Backup - System Image - Rescue Disk - Firewall
      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #508859 Reply

        PKCano
        Da Boss

        Reminds me of the Internet Explorer and Media Center controversies of the past.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #522626 Reply

      anonymous

      Something else seems to be going awry.

      Pro 64

      Yesterday troubleshooting ‘update other Microsoft products’, I  must have inadvertently left  my update setting on automatic.

      On return to my PC this morning after breakfast, switching on the screen and pressing a key to wake it resulted  startup and the warning of a BSOD shut-down. I went straight to update to find KB4493472 had been installed. Needless to say, it was immediately uninstalled.

      I don’t use Kerberos ticket. I don’t use Sophos, Avira, ArcaBit or Avast.  I use Kaspersky.

      On a possibly related note,  Balarc Advisor, says the computer needs  kb4493448  and does not list KB4493472 (I ran Belarc before hiding the bad update).

      To work around, I plan to go back to fully manual update on this machine (Windows 10 machines are all OK).

      Edit to remove HTML.

      • #527059 Reply

        anonymous

        Keep us advised on Kaspersky and kb4493448. I’m Group B and Pro x64 as well. Run KIS 2019 19.0.0.1088(e) which I trust WAAAY more than anything from M$, not to mention the product support! 😉

        • #543812 Reply

          EP
          AskWoody_MVP

          patch release notes for Kaspersky Internet Security 2019:
          https://support.kaspersky.com/13875#block1

          “patch E” for v19.0.0.1088 adds support for the upcoming 1903/19H1 update for win10

        • #551747 Reply

          anonymous

          The level of ‘advice’ I can give at this stage is “kb4493448 remains hidden until Microsoft casually drops it in the update list again AND they have nothing adverse is included in the release notes”. Even then there will be no attempt to install until a few weeks after release.

          • #560820 Reply

            anonymous

            KB4493472 was back today. I double-checked. “Yes, still hidden”. Cat-like curiosity eventually got the better of me and I installed it “just to test it”. No BSOD. So far, so good.

            Meanwhile Belarc tells me IE and Office update are still not revealing themselves in Windows update. They can bid their time and be installed manually. Meanwhile, no Windows update icon in the notification area is a pleasant change.

             

             

    • #549371 Reply

      EP
      AskWoody_MVP

      ditch Avira!

      they have released 3 program updates so far (15.0.45.1154, 15.0.45.1165 & 15.0.45.1171) and still these Avira updates don’t fix the slowdowns with the KB4493509 update for win10 v1809

      some users here have already jumped ship and decided to use another AV:
      https://answers.avira.com/en/question/two-updates-later-and-avira-still-causing-major-win10-issues-82706

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #593513 Reply

      anonymous

      So is it safe to use yet?

      2019-04 Security Monthly Quality Rollup for Windows 7 for x64-based Systems (KB4493472)

      Download size: 244.7 MB

      You may need to restart your computer for this update to take effect.

      Update type: Important

      A security issue has been identified in a Microsoft software product that could affect your system. You can help protect your system by installing this update from Microsoft. For a complete listing of the issues that are included in this update, see the associated Microsoft Knowledge Base article. After you install this update, you may have to restart your system.

      Help and Support:
      http://support.microsoft.com/help/4493472

      • #593967 Reply

        PKCano
        Da Boss

        We are at DEFCON-2 (to see a description of the DEFCON system, click on the button in the top gray menubar).
        The answer to your question, in a word: NO.
        On the page you linked, these are the known issues. The one with McAfee just showed up yesterday.
        Screen-Shot-2019-04-19-at-3.59.37-PM

        Attachments:
        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #593919 Reply

      Northwest Rick
      AskWoody Lounger

      Haven’t posted in awhile, is it just my imagination, or has the tone here deteriorated a bit?

      Just stopped by to observe that a cynical interpretation of M$’s cascading update catastrophes would call them part of a deliberate strategy to fatally wound Win7 & 8.1 to the point they become unusable, and the holdouts (like me & my Win7) have no choice left but to move to Win10.  I haven’t signed on to that opinion yet, but I am inching ever closer.  My decision to jump from Group B to Group W as of Dec 2017 is looking better with every passing month – and no, I have experienced NO adverse incidents as a result.

      I had been thinking, though, that it might be a good idea to consult Woody (and The Lounge) for ideas about a possible exit strategy when Win7 support ends:

      1. can we expect final, clean updates for all functions of Win7 on Jan 15, 2020?
      2. if so, should I consider updating my OS accordingly at that time?
      3. or am I better off just staying put?

      I had been leaning toward #2, but now I’m not sure, now the adage “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” has a certain appeal.  Woody, I hope you plan to address this matter in future columns, and I’m sure I’m not alone.

      In the meantime, Woody, I got ambushed on my way here today, from a COMPLETELY unexpected quarter:  when I clicked on the AskWoody link at the bottom of your column (and got the same result with my own archived link) it threw a Wordfence/Wordpress block on access!  I have no idea what those are, so the solutions offered were nonsensical!

      After I wasted time restarting FF with add-ons disabled, then turned off Zone Alarm Free FW, I finally found the culprit:  the block was triggered by the alias IP I was connected to on NordVPN!
      <p style=”text-align: center;”></p>
      When I changed from the “bad” IP (in Denver) to a different IP (in Seattle) the problem disappeared.

      This Brave New Digital World stinks!  You don’t have to go LOOKING for trouble, it finds YOU, even if you are just minding your own business!  I can still troubleshoot my way to a solution (barely!) but I wonder how much longer that will be true?  Unlike some of you, I’m not getting any younger!  🙂

      • #594493 Reply

        PKCano
        Da Boss

        I’m still patching Group A using @abbodi86 ‘s method (AKB2000012) to limit telemetry. Figure I’l get as patched as I can before there are no more patches. After that….

        Try this link about proxies and VPNs.

        Speaking of IP addresses, you might also try:
        WhatsMyIPAddress and CleanTalk.org

        It’s an eye-opener.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #595338 Reply

          Northwest Rick
          AskWoody Lounger

          Thanks PK, that AskWoody link was helpful.  I already use WhatIsMyIPAddress, but I had not dug down to the blacklist check before.  Sure enough, that bad Denver IP had three hits on it, one of which must have been fatal, but the Seattle one I am using currently has one too (that hit appears on both) but apparently that one is not fatal with respect to AskWoody.

          In a different matter (as I said, I haven’t posted in awhile) why don’t I get a nifty gold medal badge?  The patrons roster (which I can no longer find) listed me twice, once by my moniker (which I prefer) and once by my real name (which someone apparently took off my donation check).  I surmise those donations have “aged out”?

      • #595874 Reply

        Elly
        AskWoody MVP

        Hello @Northwest Rick,

        As someone who also joined Group W since December 2017 (to avoid the Specter/Meltdown patches) I’m facing the same future/decisions as you are.

        I think the change of tone is less a deterioration, than integration of the Windows Secrets folks. Group B/W choices are alien to them, as well as the discussions we had that led to those choices. There have always been those who have had strong opinions… (yes, I’m looking in a mirror and see one opinionated grandma!), and the Windows Secrets folks aren’t any different.

        The challenge is to be able to express diverse opinions without disrespecting each other, explaining options, and encouraging and supporting others to make their own educated decisions, even as Microsoft has been discouraging and limiting and engaging in marketing babble speak, to push everyone to do it their way.

        Those of us, especially those that are technically challenged (like me), who are rejecting the privacy invasions on personal ethics and moral grounds, can be at a disadvantage on a tech site. However, it is just as important that large corporations act in ethical ways. Evaluating the usefulness of their products regarding personal end users’ needs is as valid, if not more so, than how well the code and features work (especially when they are deliberately masking and minimizing the impact of data harvesting). Too many techies get caught up in the marketing speak, and believe it is for their own good, and the good of everyone else, and accept turning customers into products, rather than really exploring the social and ethical implications. Actually, too many people get caught up in the specific language of their various fields and tend to ignore how they integrate or interact with others… which does lead to the feelings and needs of non-technical users being dismissed and ignored here as well. It isn’t as if the lack of privacy isn’t going to affect technical users, but their focus doesn’t tend to be on themselves and community as much as the hardware and software specifics. There are some enlightened folk who do not dismiss the right and need for privacy, and seek to use technology to inform others of their choices, or develop ways to allow such choices… but too often, you hear the voices of those who still believe that greater privacy invasion is somehow more secure… and that Microsoft actually could not develop its AI while respecting our privacy… and that is much more important that Microsoft’s goals be supported, and that sacrificing home users is of little to no significance in service of those goals…

        There are cultural differences, everywhere we look in the world. For me, it will never be acceptable to use others irrespective of their own needs… that is predatory and self-serving. Because of recognizing that Microsoft is intentionally doing so, Microsoft, as a business, is not one I will support further. However, there are a lot of good things worth salvaging… and fairly few people are willing to call Microsoft on the carpet for saying they give end users a choice, but fail to provide an off button to telemetry. Microsoft is hoping that people will be satisfied by the features, and not notice the reaping of their information. They cover themselves legally… but we still have choices. My choice is not to go further down their W10 service instead of an operating system road.

        Woody has set up a Windows 7 Group A machine, specifically for testing and seeing how Microsoft treats the end users unwilling to upgrade. But it is @Canadian Tech who led the way to setting up our Windows 7 without telemetry, and providing tech support so that others could do the same. I haven’t heard of anyone who followed his advice to have had any loss of usefulness of their computers, or being subject to malware problems… and all of us have avoided the continuing drama and stress of Microsoft updating.

        At the same time, the DEFCON system is exceedingly useful for those who make different decisions under the same circumstances, allowing them to minimize the adverse impact of having been relegated to beta testing patches. It is as important to respect their decisions, as it is for them to respect ours.

        Can’t help but savor the stability, reliability, and usefulness of the choice I’ve made, and sometimes feel gleeful when the bug reports are flooding in… but I know I’ll have to continue to make choices in the future… and it is important to have accurate reports on W10’s performance and features to guide my decision making.

        Don’t feel lost in the big splash that ‘merging the whale’ floods us with… stepping up and posting will help inform others of their ability to make other choices… and reports of the stability and lack of problems will stand in stark contrast to the bugs, BSOD, and lack of choice that W10 users are constantly faced with.

        Every month I try to understand, not just note, the bugs that come up, for all the operating systems. I look for patterns, for root causes, for usefulness, for what is spoken of and what is ignored. The more that technology is being integrated into our daily lives, the more important our choices become.

        It surely puzzles me, though, that a company like Microsoft would choose to abuse end users, people who have invested in their products, and rationalize how it is okay. That, alone, is a symptom of how far off track they are.

        It further puzzles me, that even though people have struggled for rights and freedom throughout the world for centuries, and been willing to sacrifice their lives to such end, that so many people would ignore the violations of hard won rights, just to be able to use the latest tech… and pay for the privilege.

        Win 7 Home, 64 bit, Group B

      • #595890 Reply

        OscarCP
        AskWoody Plus

        Northwest: ”  is it just my imagination, or has the tone here deteriorated a bit?

        I have not noticed that; perhaps you are referring to the tone of comments on Windows 10 and where MS seems to be going now? That may be just Windows 10 and repeated bad patches’ fatigue. But some here are also of the opinion that things are not nearly as bad as most people here, and elsewhere, are saying.

        And strategies people that either want to stay with Windows 7 after its EULA, or at least not to progress to Windows 10, are promising to adopt or are already adopting, include: for some, staying put, for others (myself included) to prepare to migrate to, or even having mostly migrated already to, other operating systems. Most popular among those: Linux Mint and Ubuntu (for their user friendliness), and macOS for the same reason. But another reason, for some, to use macOS is its command line, that allows the use of the full set of Linux commands, or slightly different versions of the same, which is of particular appeal to people like myself because of the work I do.

        I already have installed Linux Mint in dual-boot with Windows 7, and have a Mac, so with that I have access to macOS as well.

        There many useful threads on installing Linux and also on macOS, in “Linux for Windows Wonks” and “macOS for Windows Wonks” here, at Woody’s. Their links are towards the middle of the brown right bar =>

        Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group B & macOS + Linux (Mint) => Win7 Group W + Mac&Lx

      • #633692 Reply

        woody
        Da Boss

        Welcome back, stranger!

        The tone hasn’t deteriorated, but it has shifted. Up until last year the emphasis was on “OMG what did Microsoft break now – and how do I fix it?” Starting with our whale swallowing — adding 120,000 new users, a million posts, we’re shifting to more of a “tech help” site.

        That’s made possible by dozens of really capable gurus who have migrated here from Windows Secrets.

        Win7 exit strategies are a stock in trade (and they’re more in the nature of “tech help” rather than “what did MS break now”). Take a look at my ongoing Seven Semper Fi series. There’s no one-size-fits-all answer to your three questions, but Win7 will still have a lot of life left in it after Jan 2020, particularly if you’re careful, move to a different antivirus package, and use a real browser.

        Sorry about the Wordfence block, but as we’re getting bigger, we’re seeing more attacks on the site. In the past, we’ve kind of taken the hit and brought the site back as quickly as we could. Now we’re being more proactive. Still, we’re getting more than a hundred new spam-linked accounts every day, and we’re seeing more and more forced malware injection attempts. Wordfence has been invaluable.

        Anyway, good to see you again. Keep us posted on your adventures on the Group W bench, and chime in with advice for those who want to stick with the Big 7. Also, don’t be afraid to recommend other operating systems — we’re branching out beyond Windows (and for obvious reasons). Win7 coupled with a Chromebook or even a phone may be the best alternative for a post-Jan 2020 setup.

    • #627510 Reply

      EP
      AskWoody_MVP

      the plot thickens again woody

      looks like Avira has re-posted that missing KB article “Why does my system run very slow?” late TH April 18:
      https://answers.avira.com/en/question/why-does-my-system-run-very-slow-82653

      Avira claims the slowdown issues are fixed with the recent 15.0.45.1171 update but some of the users there in that KB article are saying otherwise

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #629518 Reply

        woody
        Da Boss

        Avira will feature prominently in my lead article in Monday morning’s AskWoody Plus Newsletter.

        It’s weird, though. They and now McAfee are the only ones who are pointing a finger at this month’s Win10 1809 cumulative update.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #636502 Reply

          anonymous

          My view varies to yours.
          – Too many seem to be bashing Microsoft to fit it.
          – We don’t need Microsoft getting away with evil deeds but we do need to hold back until there is sufficient evidence what they are doing. For example the idea that Microsoft is deliberately breaking Windows 7 to get people onto Windows 10 is ludicrous.

          The example doesn’t absolve Microsoft for their updates breaking systems. It simply recognises we should not be stating without evidence the breaks are deliberate. Be angry about the bad deed, not about imagined intent.

          2 users thanked author for this post.
          RockE, b
    • #663236 Reply

      Alex5723
      AskWoody Plus

      My view varies to yours.
      – Too many seem to be bashing Microsoft to fit it.
      – We don’t need Microsoft getting away with evil deeds but we do need to hold back until there is sufficient evidence what they are doing. For example the idea that Microsoft is deliberately breaking Windows 7 to get people onto Windows 10 is ludicrous.

      The example doesn’t absolve Microsoft for their updates breaking systems. It simply recognises we should not be stating without evidence the breaks are deliberate. Be angry about the bad deed, not about imagined intent.

      You mean to tell that Microsoft wasn’t aware that April API/kernel changes will break AV software, yet went ahead with the updates ?
      I don’t believe it for a second.
      Will Microsoft pay for the damages to hundreds of million PCs/Servers that were hit ? No chance.

      • #701076 Reply

        anonymous

        You are reinforcing my point. It may look that way but I don’t know and neither do you. Microsoft stuffed up very badly with the updates but that doesn’t mean they knew in advance.

    • #727743 Reply

      Alex5723
      AskWoody Plus

      You are reinforcing my point. It may look that way but I don’t know and neither do you. Microsoft stuffed up very badly with the updates but that doesn’t mean they knew in advance.

      Just as Woody said :

      “Here’s what really concerns me. There has to be a group inside Microsoft that gives the final A-OK on specific patches. In the case of April’s debacle, that entity either:

      a) Didn’t know that the patches would cause these problems, or

      b) Didn’t care.”

      I vote for b.

    • #738809 Reply

      EP
      AskWoody_MVP

      reading new comments from Avira’s KB article “Why does my system run very slow?”
      https://answers.avira.com/en/question/why-does-my-system-run-very-slow-82653

      seems like Avira got it right the 4th time with software update version 15.0.45.1184 as this new version no longer has the slowdown problems with the April 2019 updates

      took ’em long enough 🙂

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #744081 Reply

      Alex5723
      AskWoody Plus

      Is MS-DEFCON 2 status only for Win7, 8.1 or does it apply at current state to Win 10 too ?

      • #744507 Reply

        PKCano
        Da Boss

        The DEFCON System refers to PATCHING, not a specific version of Windows. It applies to ALL versions of Windows. (And you should make it a habit for any version of software too, unless you like being a Guinea Pig or cannon fodder)

        Read about the MS-DEFCON System here. (button in the top gray menubar)

        1 user thanked author for this post.

    Please follow the -Lounge Rules- no personal attacks, no swearing, and politics/religion are relegated to the Rants forum.

    Reply To: MS-DEFCON 2: Patching conflicts with Sophos and Avast are getting better, but Avira’s a no-show. Don’t patch.

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