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  • New Windows 10 Windows Update explained

    Posted on joep517 Comment on the AskWoody Lounge

    Home Forums AskWoody blog New Windows 10 Windows Update explained

    This topic contains 56 replies, has 24 voices, and was last updated by  glnz 2 months, 1 week ago.

    • Author
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    • #1765004 Reply

      joep517
      AskWoody MVP

      Ed Bott of ZDNet has published an article explaining the ins and outs of the new/revised Windows Update debuting with the Windows 10 May update (aka 1
      [See the full post at: New Windows 10 Windows Update explained]

      --Joe

      7 users thanked author for this post.
    • #1765006 Reply

      Barry
      AskWoody Plus

      I have to admit i am confused. Good thing i am a seeker and do not have to worry about it.

      Barry (Seeker)
      Windows 10 Home V 1903

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #1765008 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      The biggest change though is that if you are running Home or Pro when a version nears its end-of-service date Microsoft will automatically upgrade the machine to the current release.

      There’s a lot of angst hiding in that observation.

      Win10 version 1803, the version most people are using, hits end of life on November 12.

      Microsoft has already announced that it will start forcing 1803 machines to 1903, starting this month.

      We don’t know how the forced 1803-to-1903 upgrades will roll out — if they’ll be nice and “Download and install now” gentle, or if they’ll be steamrollered when MS thinks it’s best, d*mn the torpedoes style.

      With the 1803-to-1903 forced migration, will we see the new Microsoft or the old Microsoft?

      I talk about the controversy in the AskWoody Plus Newsletter coming out on Monday morning, US time.

      • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by  woody.
      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #1765011 Reply

      joep517
      AskWoody MVP

      The article takes several readings before it starts to sink in. There are many unanswered questions. Such as, how does Microsoft pick the time to update a particular machine? Let’s hope that more information becomes public shortly.

      --Joe

      3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #1765096 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      Yep. I read and re-read and re-re-read Ed’s explanation, thinking – as complicated as the situation truly is – there’s more to it than this.

      And then it struck me. He doesn’t even mention “Download and install now.”

      At least he didn’t fall into the trap that so many other writers have fallen into: He doesn’t say that Home users are “able to delay updates up to seven days, five different times.” That simply isn’t true, and never has been true.

      With Win10 1903, Home users will be able to defer updates once, for up to 35 days. As soon as the deferral runs out, you get all of the pending updates, whether you want them or not.

      Even given all of the complications Ed describes – and they are legion – the additional complications of “Pause updates,” manual deferrals, and how they interact with various registry/group policy settings, makes an astrolabe look simple.

      I’m still trying to digest all of it. Once we have some experience with the way the 1903 settings actually work, I’ll write step-by-step guidelines. But it’s going to take a while.

      4 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1765150 Reply

        CyGuy
        AskWoody Plus

        Yes, please, Step by Step as in the past!

        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1765317 Reply

        Tex265
        AskWoody Plus

        Woody wrote:
        I’m still trying to digest all of it. Once we have some experience with the way the 1903 settings actually work, I’ll write step-by-step guidelines. But it’s going to take a while.

        Unless I’m mistaken, the update released 5/21 for versions 1803 (KB4499183) and 1809 contain the same Windows Update changes that version 1903 has/is receiving.

        If you didn’t already seek the update via the Update button or manually install it from the MS Catalog (neither suggested by AskWoody), it is going to be included for everyone with the June 11th CU.

        So hopefully you will have it figured out before then.

        Windows 10 Pro x64 v1803 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64
      • #1766500 Reply

        b
        AskWoody Plus

        At least he didn’t fall into the trap that so many other writers have fallen into: He doesn’t say that Home users are “able to delay updates up to seven days, five different times.” That simply isn’t true, and never has been true.

        It may be wrong, but that is what Microsoft (Corporate Vice President) actually said:

        So, we’re making it possible for all users to pause both feature and monthly updates for up to 35 days (seven days at a time, up to five times).
        Improving the Windows 10 update experience with control, quality and transparency

        Knuckle dragger Cannon fodder Chump Daft glutton Idiot Crazy/Ignorant Toxic drinker Blockhead Unwashed mass Seeker/Sucker "Ancient/Obsolete" (Group ASAP) Win10 v.1903

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #1766603 Reply

          woody
          Da Boss

          Yep. That’s what everybody is parroting – but the way things work right now, that isn’t the case.

          It’s one of the main reasons I haven’t tried to write up the exact updating rules. That, and the fact that “Download and install now” has shown up on updates other than “feature updates” twice.

          We either have left hand not knowing right hand, or we have a change in policy. Or both.

          2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #1765146 Reply

      alkhall
      AskWoody Lounger

      So, when a W10 version hits its EOL, it stops working?

      I am currently researching way to prevent W10 from ‘phoning home’. The most obvious way is to not connect it the Internet, but perhaps there are other methods…

      • #1765147 Reply

        PKCano
        Da Boss

        No, Win10 doesn’t stop working when it reaches EOL. But Microsoft will do its best to force you onto the latest version.

        The Home version doesn’t have many options, the Pro version has more. But to really block the constant upgrades, you may eventually have to resort to third-party bloc,ers.

        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #1765152 Reply

          CyGuy
          AskWoody Plus

          I am using Pro.  If I read Ed Bott’s article correctly, there may be times when my deferral “Settings” will be overridden.  That’s the part I haven’t grasped.  Seems like playing roulette even for Pro users.

          • #1766604 Reply

            woody
            Da Boss

            To be clear, that’s what Microsoft has promised – but we still haven’t seen it in action.

          • #1831537 Reply

            Mark
            AskWoody Plus

            CyGuy,

            Like you I am on Pro.  I am also still on v1709 (for reasons due to what we use at work).  I have not had one upgrade sent my way.  I don’t go looking for updates (seeking).  I also got aggressive early on with my shutting down MS having access to my PC.  I turned my connection to metered.  I also shut things down in Local Policy and in the Registry as to Microsoft’s ability to try to force me into anything.  As far as update patches, I always watch Woody’s for any potential bad patches and I also only apply patches that we use at work.  I couple this with running MBSA (Microsoft Baseline Security Analyzer) and check for missing patches.

            Windows 10 Pro x64 v1709, Windows 7 Home Premium x64, Windows Vista Home Premium x64
            1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #1765377 Reply

      Berton
      AskWoody_MVP

      I am using Pro.  If I read Ed Bott’s article correctly, there may be times when my deferral “Settings” will be overridden.  That’s the part I haven’t grasped.  Seems like playing roulette even for Pro users.

      Yeah, Microsoft has been fairly transparent for some time in saying there will be certain updates, mostly for security, that will override a user’s settings, probably will depend a lot on serverity.  I use both Pro and Home versions on Notebooks and Desktops and haven’t had a problem, yet.

      Before you wonder "Am I doing things right," ask "Am I doing the right things?"
    • #1765426 Reply

      Fred
      AskWoody Lounger

      so traveling around this month and depending on your laptop W10h v1803 can become a pretty big tombola .. exciting, NOT.

    • #1765428 Reply

      cmptrgy
      AskWoody Plus

      Yep. I read and re-read and re-re-read Ed’s explanation, thinking – as complicated as the situation truly is – there’s more to it than this.

      And then it struck me. He doesn’t even mention “Download and install now.”

      At least he didn’t fall into the trap that so many other writers have fallen into: He doesn’t say that Home users are “able to delay updates up to seven days, five different times.” That simply isn’t true, and never has been true.

      With Win10 1903, Home users will be able to defer updates once, for up to 35 days. As soon as the deferral runs out, you get all of the pending updates, whether you want them or not.

      Even given all of the complications Ed describes – and they are legion – the additional complications of “Pause updates,” manual deferrals, and how they interact with various registry/group policy settings, makes an astrolabe look simple.

      I’m still trying to digest all of it. Once we have some experience with the way the 1903 settings actually work, I’ll write step-by-step guidelines. But it’s going to take a while.

      I look forward to Woody’s “step-by-step guidelines” when possible as well as everyone else’s knowledge and experiences as they unfold in the world of Windows 10 as we’ll need it.
      — 1903 is on it’s way with everything it will have in store for us.

      HP EliteBook 8540w laptop Windows 10 Pro (x64)

    • #1765429 Reply

      mledman
      AskWoody Plus

      The biggest change though is that if you are running Home or Pro when a version nears its end-of-service date Microsoft will automatically upgrade the machine to the current release.

      I wonder what Microsoft will do if they have determined your hardware is not capable of running the current release.

      Mark

      3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1765774 Reply

        DavidForrest57
        AskWoody Lounger

        I’ve pondered that question myself. I assume one will eventually be left with an unsupported version of Windows 10, and be in the same boat as die-hard Windows 7 users after January 2020.

        If my “final” version of Windows 10 happens to be 1803 (my current), then it’ll be out of support before Windows 7. Ain’t that ironic?

        4 users thanked author for this post.
        • #1766605 Reply

          woody
          Da Boss

          Right now, the most easily observed problem is with PCs sold with an inadequate amount of storage.

          If you have a PC with 16 GB of (SSD) storage, it’ll run Win10 1809 — at least in theory — but it won’t run Win10 1903, according to Microsoft’s specs.

          I don’t know what happens, precisely, when you try to install 1903 on a tiny PC like that.

          2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1766819 Reply

        Fred
        AskWoody Lounger

        The biggest change though is that if you are running Home or Pro when a version nears its end-of-service date Microsoft will automatically upgrade the machine to the current release.

        I wonder what Microsoft will do if they have determined your hardware is not capable of running the current release.

        Mark

        Then I am afraid that my very old Netbook will be to slow to process the wishes and commands of allmighty Microsoft

    • #1765435 Reply

      Posted this in the Win 10 forum, but thought it might be better here…seems there are some  issues with existing Intel audio and video drivers in 1903:

      https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/windows-10-v1903-upgrade-blocked-due-to-some-intel-drivers/#comments

      Also some issues with AMD hardware as well.

      Oh, but you’ll be blocked from updating if MSFT detects a problem, right? Riiiight!

      (Hysterical laughter)

      Gad. Doesn’t anyone test anything any more?

      Win7 Pro SP1 64-bit, Dell Latitude E6330, Intel CORE i5 "Ivy Bridge", Group "Wait for the all-clear", Multiple Air-Gapped backup drives in different locations, "Don't check for updates-Full Manual Mode."
      --
      "...All the people, all the time..." (Peter Ustinov ad-lib from "Logan's Run")

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #1765413 Reply

      anonymous

      So, as a carefull business user working from home, I did not install 1810 but use the stable 1803. I want to install 1903 when it is declared ready for business on a moment THAT I CHOOSE (not that I need it, but I am forced to upgrade). I planned somewhere between August and October. Now, Microsoft disrespects me completely as a cautious, serious user who paid a lot extra for a Pro license, especially to avoid nasty surprises. I decided that I have enough of the enormous mess they created with Windows 10. It became a toy… Home users, gamers. I do not want to risk my income anymore by using a total unreliable OS. I would love to use certain words that are unfortunately not allowed here. But enough is enough. The situation is worse then ever before in the history of Windows 10. And the deafening silence of Microsoft is just sooooo low, it’s {disrespectful] to your clients and lauging at them in their faces.

      Once again Microsoft promised gold, a nice pr-talk to keep journalists quiet for a while. We would get longer deferrals, more control. In reality, the updating-nightmare is more uncertain then ever before. Yes, I am extremely frustrated, very angry. Microsoft will not care about that at all.

      The final conclusion? All well-meant advices here on Askwoody, from other IT Experts (or so they thought…) etc are worthless. You either have to accept the Microsoft mess and expect anything at any moment or leave their ecosystem. Easy choice, need rest in my life. I JUST DON’T WANT THIS CHAOS ANYMORE!!!

      PS I am anonymous again, my account dissappeared. Mod Note: Your account is there, but you need to use the account name to log in, and the correct email address for Lost Password 🙂

       
      Content edited – please respect the Lounge Rules

    • #1765427 Reply

      616c
      AskWoody Lounger

      Nobody was downloading Xbox for Windows…or buying anything from Microsoft’s Store.  So, they have to keep finding more ways to push crapware.  You can’t even disable Store without breaking Windows.  Once the older versions are gone…monthly OS subscriptions will show up.

      • #1766630 Reply

        Alex5723
        AskWoody Plus

        or buying anything from Microsoft’s Store.  So, they have to keep finding more ways to push crapware

        And they found it by presenting scareware ads :

        Ads in Windows 10 apps may open deceptive webpages

        Windows 10 users who run ad-powered applications on their systems may be targeted by deceptive and fraudulent campaigns that make them believe that their PC is infected or that they have won an iPhone currently….

        https://www.ghacks.net/2019/06/03/ads-in-windows-10-apps-may-open-deceptive-webpages/

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #1765450 Reply

      kwerboom
      AskWoody Lounger

      I’m confused. I read the article and I still don’t get how the 1803-to-1903 upgrade will go for me. I have Windows 10 Pro with updates set to the “Semi-Annual Channel” and ‘Feature Updates’ deferred for 365 days. Will Microsoft do any of the following 1) honor the 60 day delay between “Semi-Annual Channel” and “Semi-Annual Channel (Targeted)” plus the 365 days I requested for feature updates OR 2) is the 60 days gone leaving me with only 365 days until the next update OR 3) is Microsoft just going to ignore all my settings and update my system before I’m ready. I’m planning to do so between the last week of June and the weekend after July 4th. I just want to do it on my own time after one more backup and after Microsoft has released some more post-release stability/security/performance patches.

      • #1765617 Reply

        Alex5723
        AskWoody Plus

        Will Microsoft do any of the following

        No, it won’t. Microsoft’s AI will download and install 1903 on your PC starting this month with no way to defer installation unless you us a 3rd party app.

        • #1765719 Reply

          kwerboom
          AskWoody Lounger

          No, it won’t. Microsoft’s AI will download and install 1903 on your PC starting this month with no way to defer installation unless you us a 3rd party app.

          Well that’s sad news. Do you happen to know any 3rd party apps?

          • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by  kwerboom.
        • #1766607 Reply

          woody
          Da Boss

          No, it won’t. Microsoft’s AI will download and install 1903 on your PC starting this month with no way to defer installation unless you us a 3rd party app.

          I’m sorry, but that just isn’t true. Read Ed’s article.

          • #1767076 Reply

            b
            AskWoody Plus

            No, it won’t. Microsoft’s AI will download and install 1903 on your PC starting this month with no way to defer installation unless you us a 3rd party app.

            I’m sorry, but that just isn’t true. Read Ed’s article.

            I think that’s exactly what Ed says:

            “On a PC running Windows 10 Home or Pro, version 1803 or earlier, the version 1903 update will arrive sometime soon, and you won’t be able to delay it.”

            Knuckle dragger Cannon fodder Chump Daft glutton Idiot Crazy/Ignorant Toxic drinker Blockhead Unwashed mass Seeker/Sucker "Ancient/Obsolete" (Group ASAP) Win10 v.1903

            • #1767209 Reply

              woody
              Da Boss

              the version 1903 update will arrive sometime soon, and you won’t be able to delay it.

              What Ed says is correct, but it doesn’t specify (a) when or (b) how the update will happen. That’s the crux of the problem.

      • #1765885 Reply

        joep517
        AskWoody MVP

        I believe that Windows Update will honor your deferral setting. Please read the article. Since you have Windows 10 Pro you have more options than a Home user.

        It may depend on whether you have installed the latest updates which include a Windows Update change.

        --Joe

        • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by  joep517.
        • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by  joep517.
        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #1766086 Reply

        Tex265
        AskWoody Plus

        Alex5723 wrote:

        No, it won’t. Microsoft’s AI will download and install 1903 on your PC starting this month with no way to defer installation unless you us a 3rd party app.

        I don’t think we know this is to be the answer especially as respects Windows 10 Pro version. It is unclear whether the current Feature delay of 365 days will be overridden.

        Versions 1803 and 1809 will receive the new Windows Update with the June Cumulative Update and many already have.

        We need to have more feedback from those who already have the new Updater installed as respects exactly what is different on the Windows Updater screen (and Advanced page) as well as Group Settings in Pro for Windows Update. (eg: Has the Feature 365 day delay been taken away? etc)

        What has been removed? What has been added? Screen shots if possible.

        We need to get this nailed down as while we would like to know how it will work in version 1903 the same concern is coming sooner to us all with the June CU.

        Windows 10 Pro x64 v1803 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64
        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #1765562 Reply

      Zaphyrus
      AskWoody Lounger

      as long as the mettered connection and wushowhide works, people shouldn’t panic much

      Just someone who don't want Windows to mess with its computer.
    • #1765715 Reply

      DavidForrest57
      AskWoody Lounger

      A work colleague hasn’t had a feature update since 2015 because of lack of disk space! She only has 2GB free out of a total 30GB on her laptop’s HDD.

      Is it possible to shrink the Windows partition to prevent or stall feature updates until one is ready for them? Or is this a case of using a sledgehammer to crack a nut?

      • #1765727 Reply

        PKCano
        Da Boss

        Susan Bradley ran into this problem last year with her 32GB HP Envy 8 Note 5000. Her solution was to use external media to give it room to upgrade.

        If you are looking at upgrading to v1903, it has had problems with media connected during an upgrade. But it is supposedly fixed with the upcoming June updates.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #1765757 Reply

          DavidForrest57
          AskWoody Lounger

          If I recall correctly, future versions of Windows will reserve some disk space for feature updates. But if the Windows partition is constrained before that happens, then such updates might only be facilitated by connecting suitable external media (assuming the fix you refer to materialises).

          Wouldn’t that put control back in the hands of the user, as a feature update could only happen when the user connects external media?

          • #1765775 Reply

            PKCano
            Da Boss

            Windows is supposedly going to reserve 7GB of space on your internal storage for it’s purposes, and to be able to update/upgrade. Where that leaves you, with only 2GB of free space, is a good question. You may have to have an SD card or USB device permanently attached, as the OS may leave you precious little space for anything else.

            Before you even consider an upgrade, I suggest you make a full backup image of the drive, and in addition, backup all the files under the User ID to an external device.

            1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #1766534 Reply

            Paul T
            AskWoody MVP

            If you want to add some space holders use this command to create empty files. The command takes less than a second to create the file and you can delete as required, but not to the recycle bin.

            1GB: fsutil file createnew 1GB.bin 1073741824
            10GB: fsutil file createnew 10GB.bin 10737418240

            It might be worth creating a folder for the files, maybe C:\SaveSpaceForUpdates
            Then use fsutil file createnew C:\SaveSpaceForUpdates\1GB.bin 1073741824
            Create multiple files to fill as much space as you want rather than creating one very large file.

            cheers, Paul

            1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #1765886 Reply

        joep517
        AskWoody MVP

        The reservation of space happens with the installation of version 1903 (or a prior Insider build). So, if there is not enough room to install version 1903 to begin with space will not be reserved.

        As @pkcano suggested, always do a full image backup of your system before starting a major update.

        --Joe

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #1793810 Reply

          joep517
          AskWoody MVP

          Found this at What’s new in Windows 10, version 1903 IT Pro content:

          “New disk space requirement for Windows 10, version 1903 applies only to OEMs for the manufacture of new PCs. This new requirement does not apply to existing devices. PCs that don’t meet new device disk space requirements will continue to receive updates and the 1903 update will require about the same amount of free disk space as previous updates.”

          Also from the same article:

          “Reserved storage sets aside disk space to be used by updates, apps, temporary files, and system caches. It improves the day-to-day function of your PC by ensuring critical OS functions always have access to disk space. Reserved storage will be enabled automatically on new PCs with Windows 10, version 1903 pre-installed, and for clean installs. It will not be enabled when updating from a previous version of Windows 10.”

          Looks like good news for those who have a device with small disk storage.

          --Joe

    • #1765834 Reply

      b
      AskWoody Plus

      Enterprise and Education users have the same deferral policies as Pro users. Additionally, there is a 36-month servicing period for some versions.

      I think the 36 there is a typo by Ed, as he later refers to 30 months twice.

      Knuckle dragger Cannon fodder Chump Daft glutton Idiot Crazy/Ignorant Toxic drinker Blockhead Unwashed mass Seeker/Sucker "Ancient/Obsolete" (Group ASAP) Win10 v.1903

    • #1765974 Reply

      Berton
      AskWoody_MVP

      My up-t0-date Win10 Home does allow a longer-than 7 days delay.

      Pause-updates-W10Home-2019-06-02-112723

      Before you wonder "Am I doing things right," ask "Am I doing the right things?"
      Attachments:
      • #1766611 Reply

        woody
        Da Boss

        Win10 1903 Home DOES allow “quality update” (read: cumulative update) deferrals up to 35 days. What’s not so obvious is that you only get one chance: Once the alarm goes off, you get all available updates. You can’t go in and reset the clock.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #1766619 Reply

          anonymous

          I therefore come to the following 2 possible conclusions that

          1. We are all seekers now.

          or

          2. If you don’t click search, you only get B updates.

    • #1766551 Reply

      Smithdoor
      AskWoody Lounger

      Tpday I just install v1903

      Works great it only took 4 hours

       

      Dave

       

       

    • #1766610 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      It is unclear whether the current Feature delay of 365 days will be overridden.

      Yep.

      As things stand, we have no idea (a) when Microsoft will override the Windows Pro Advanced Options feature update deferral settings or (b) once they’re overridden, if you’ll be asked to Download and install.

    • #1766613 Reply

      doriel
      AskWoody Lounger

      I really do not understand, why this has to be so complicated. So many people wasting their time and so many people lost their data. There is also lot of people that lost their faith, and I dont blame them.
      So this flowchart is not valid anymore, or what? If I defer updates, this process tree starts anyway (regardless my defer updates setting) if microsoft wants?

      windows-automatic-update-flowchart-600x661

      I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.
      --- Thomas A. Edison

      Attachments:
    • #1824754 Reply

      Smithdoor
      AskWoody Lounger

      My update to Windows 10 v1903 64-bit is working great after week (6/2/2019)

      The only thing that took was a old PDF Print. The Windows PDF does display the save as box on Autocad LT2000.

      This was fix by downloading a new a PDF printer.

      I change the background color using Regedit (need to reboot for changes]

      Dave

      • This reply was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by  Smithdoor.
      Attachments:
    • #1846866 Reply

      glnz
      AskWoody Lounger

      On my Win 10 Pro 64-bit, I updated to 1903 this past weekend from 1803 (with a very brief stop in 1809) and got it settled down.

      However, in Update & Security, there are NO LONGER separate options (a) to defer “feature” updates by up to 365 days or (b) to defer “quality”updates by up to 30 days.  There are only (a) an immediate option to “Pause updates for 7 days” and (b) under Advanced options, an option to “pause updates” by up to 35 days.  That’s all!

      I thought from AskWoody there would be a new-fangled option that would give us greater control, but NOT.  Or am I missing something?

      Reminder – I’m on Pro, not Home.  I just re-confirmed that in About.

      • #1846867 Reply

        PKCano
        Da Boss

        We’re all missing something. There has been an ongoing discussion about all the setting disappearing in the Patch Tuesday Thread and the DEFCON threads on the Main Blog. You must not have read them.

        Microsoft either made a big mistake that needs to be corrected OR they did it on purpose and sold us a bill of goods. There’s something to be said for waiting to update till the Guinea pigs are through finding all the bugs! 🙂

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #1846868 Reply

          glnz
          AskWoody Lounger

          Thanks, PKCano!  Relived I’m not suffering delusions by myself again, and happy to share them with you !!

    Please follow the -Lounge Rules- no personal attacks, no swearing, and politics/religion are relegated to the Rants forum.

    Reply To: New Windows 10 Windows Update explained

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