News, tips, advice, support for Windows, Office, PCs & more
Home icon Home icon Home icon Email icon RSS icon

We're community supported and proud of it!

  • Norton 360 adds crypto mining

    Home Forums AskWoody blog Norton 360 adds crypto mining

    • This topic has 64 replies, 33 voices, and was last updated 1 week ago.
    Viewing 39 reply threads
    • Author
      Posts
      • #2368796
        Susan Bradley
        Manager

        Once upon a time we all bought IBM 8088 computers. To that we all added the yellow box better known as Norton antivirus. Over time we moved away from
        [See the full post at: Norton 360 adds crypto mining]

        Susan Bradley Patch Lady

        6 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2368800
        OscarCP
        AskWoody Plus

        Susan: I am not a fan of cryptomining: it uses huge amounts of electricity, the generation of which, mostly in China, where most cryptocurrency is mined,  is made using steam turbines with the water heated by burning coal. It is destabilizing of the World Economy, bad for trade, good for tax evasion, and the reason for the existence of cryptomining botnets, where the infected computers get greatly slowed down by the parasitic computational burden they are made to take on. The Chinese government recently banned cryptomining and cryptocurrencies for these reasons and some major corporations, including Tesla, the luxury electric cars maker, stopped accepting Bitcoin in payment for their products:

        https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56012952

        Bitcoin consumes more electricity than Argentina“:

        Fun facts: according to the University of Cambridge Bitcoin Energy Consumption Index, the energy used these days in mining Bitcoin in one year could heat all the water for tea in Europe for 3.8 years and in the UK for 25:

        https://cbeci.org/cbeci/comparisons

        And also:

        https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/13/why-elon-musk-is-worried-about-bitcoin-environmental-impact.html

        • Elon Musk said Tesla has halted purchases of vehicles with bitcoin due to concerns over the “rapidly increasing use of fossil fuels for bitcoin mining.”
        • The cryptocurrency uses more energy than entire countries such as Sweden and Malaysia, according to researchers.
        • [US] Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen has also warned about bitcoin’s environmental impact, saying it uses a “staggering” amount of power.

        For an application software meant to protect its users’ computers and data and keep them safe of being used by black hats for their own profit, that Norton is going to make the users of its software into cryptominers, if they accept to use it in this way?, it is not just a bad idea, but can be best described using not really the kind of language acceptable in polite society, in my opinion.

        I left Norton AV for other antimalware applications years ago, chased away by the bloating of its software and  by its various incompatibilities with other software I needed to use.

        Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group W (ex B) & macOS Mojave + Linux (Mint)

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #2368840
          Save_Us_from_MS
          AskWoody Lounger

          – Advanced civilizations use energy. The greenest way is to live in mud huts.
          How much energy do you think is wasted by the banking industry with their skyscrapers and pointless staff?! or by Elon Musk’s private jets and yachts…

          – Corporations usually do not lift a finger out of the goodness of their hearts and for the greater good. Bitcoin mining can incentivize and speed up the transition to renewable energy.

        • #2368876
          BobT
          AskWoody Lounger

          It uses huge amounts of electricity, the generation of which, mostly in China, where most cryptocurrency is mined, is made using steam turbines with the water heated by burning coal. “
          So? So does the entire current world banking system. All those banks with servers, data centers, backups, employee’s PCs,the employees themselves, the offices need to house those employees, etc. etc. Bet it adds up to a lot more. Also certain cryptos (such as Ethereum, which is what Norton is currently adding) are moving away from the “Proof of Work” (electricity) method, to “Proof of Stake”, which won’t require nearly as much electricity.

          It is destabilizing of the World Economy
          So? Not all disruptors are bad things. If the world economy is so fragile, maybe it’s time for a change..

          You also can’t just “print” more crypto (of certain types) at will, as we’re encountering with hyper inflation.

          bad for trade
          ????
          Crypto transactions can be made worldwide, anywhere at any time, and usually faster than banks will process international payments, with a LOT less red tape involved (next to none). The point is the network is trustless, and verified by consensus. If someone sends you a crypto transaction, you KNOW they actually have the money, as the network verifies it. They also can’t just rescind it. Crypto is immensely secure in this way, which was one of the main points of it.

          It also can’t be “controlled” like banks and so on can. Annoy a dodgy government? Prepare to have all your assets frozen and be made unable to trade anything.. Good luck stopping that with crypto.

          good for tax evasion
          Sounds like you’ve been reading too many mainstream news articles. Only certain cryptos are fully anonymous. The point of the likes of Bitcoin is that it is FULLY traceable, if anything it’s EASIER to tax as it is a PUBLIC LEDGER! You know what’s good for tax evation? Cash. Those dollars in your pocket you use every day. Trillions go “missing” quite regularly, don’t they.

          You can see EXACTLY where money is on the crypto network, and get the full end-end trail with a simple query. This was one of the other main points of the system.

          “The reason for the existence of cryptomining botnets, where the infected computers get greatly slowed down by the parasitic computational burden they are made to take on.”
          Botnets have existed LONG before Crypto, and will exist for a long time afterwards, too. This is not a crypto unique problem.

          Realise that the BBC and the likes just want to write articles for clicks, and half the time don’t know what they’re on about themselves. They wrote similar stuff about the early days of the internet, how it was “bad”, “would never take on”, “would never surpass the typewriter” (lol), etc. etc. We’re still in early days yet.

          Some valid criticisms would be that as crypto is still in its early days, it is extremely user unfriendly, there’s little global understanding (then again, how much do you truly understand how your banking systems work?) and that to acquire some often relies on dealing with dodgy exchanges. These are all issues that are being worked on over time.

          The main problem I can see with a company like Norton adding it, is that it will open a complex subject to a user base that doesn’t know what they’re doing. I can see Norton opening themselves to a deluge of user support issues where some derp has sent it to the wrong address, the value has fluctuated more than they expect, or they’ve gone and worn out their computer components, as they didn’t realise they were having their personal PC act as a server. They’re going to have to be VERY clear in their T&Cs. As I said, early days.

          Another thing is that it’s just a plain weird thing to add to an antivirus / security app. Why not just make a separate application for it? Having that on EVERYONE’S systems who has Norton 360 is opening their computers to exploitation by activating the mining capabilities if that security is bypassed. Should be a choice whether you have that sort of thing on your machine or not. Sounds like a quick cash-in on the current hype to me, which will inevitably be removed later.

          2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #2368902
            OscarCP
            AskWoody Plus

            It looks like the main pro-mining argument is that, since bad things have been happening all along, having more of the same is no big deal.

            Conclusion: I takes all sorts to make a world

            Although I would hope for a world that is better, not worse in the way it is bad already. Innovative bad things are no better, necessarily, than same old, same old bad things. Take murder: it has been around for quite a while. I would go as far as to say that having more murders, using a novel technique, is not an improvement, or something that can be dismissed by arguing that killing people is not a new thing.

            But have it your way.

            Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group W (ex B) & macOS Mojave + Linux (Mint)

            2 users thanked author for this post.
            • #2368912
              BobT
              AskWoody Lounger

              More like there has always been, and will always be murderers. It’s not that a new tool will make MORE of them, just that they’ll do it in a different way.

              Should we have never invented the knife, because murderers back in that time were using a stick? Same with the telephone, because we now have the dreaded spam callers?

              Just because someone will use something in a negative way, shouldn’t stop you from making progress.

              • #2369443
                anonymous
                Guest

                 

                No progress is being made, though. While the blockchain and such may add value as new tech,  the mining itself doesn’t add anything. It’s just a way to create artificial scarcity in order to jack up prices. It doesn’t produce anything that makes people’s lives better. It’s not innovation. It’s like speculating on a company that then never actually produces anything.

                It’s extremely volatile, so it can’t replace any existing currencies. That would be the one value it could have, but no country is going to want to tie their economic output to something so volatile. Stability is what is valued. Plus it scales poorly: the more it is used, the more computation/time it takes per interaction. That’s the same problem using the gold standard had.

                Sure, I wouldn’t mind getting in on it anyways, despite the above, just trying to ride the bubble with money I could stand to lose, and hoping to get out before it bursts. But the fact that it adds more to the environmental problems when we’re currently trying to reduce those to make it another 100 years, and it seems profoundly unethical. It’s morally wrong to benefit oneself at the cost of others.

                Not to mention it is used so often to promote crime. And I don’t mean just the stuff I consider harmless.

                And that’s without considering that this is designed to help Norton make more money without actually improving their product.

                1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #2368964
          anonymous
          Guest

          By printing so much money, the Fed is creating all sort of bubbles, cryptocurrency is one of them.

      • #2368803
        anonymous
        Guest

        Back to business basics, Norton, It is time to ask yourselves some questions: “What is our business? Are we in the business of mining crypto or are we in the business of malware detection?”

        Sadly, they are not the only business that makes the mistake of thinking adding more improves the product.

        5 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2368812
        techweenie
        AskWoody Lounger

        I guess they’re embracing what they do best: ruining your computer.  I haven’t met a computer yet with Norton that didn’t have crippling issues that magically disappeared as soon as Norton was uninstalled.  They may have been good in the early 90s with their Norton Utilities suite, but certainly not since.

        4 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2368827
        CBA
        AskWoody Plus

        How pathetic .. crypto-mining as part of 360! Then again, who needs 360?  What they should do is to concentrate on protecting us from “bad” guys using our computers to crypto-mine.  I agree with Oscar’s comments above.  No need to repeat.

        I’m a Norton fan going back to my IBM 50Z days (Commander, AntiVirus, Systemworks).  Nowadays I use Norton AntiVirus .. plain and simple.  Works great (backed up by MBAE and on demand scanner like RogueKiller, HitmanPro, etc.)!

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2368831
        Pepsiboy
        AskWoody Lounger

        Susan,

        Just one question, what would be the advantage TO ME to have crypto-mining ??I see no reason, financially, to occupy the extra CPU time and electricity to do this. I DON’T need to have my computer slowing down without HUGE monitary return. NO THANKS ! ! ! I’ll just stick with my Vipre Internes Security.

        Dave

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2368833
        BATcher
        AskWoody_MVP

        Peter Norton would be spinning in his grave…

        BATcher

        Plethora means a lot to me.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2368835
        EricB
        AskWoody Plus

        I ditched Norton a long time ago when Symantec decided not to patch a critical security flaw in the installed version but insisted that upgrading to a new, defective, super buggy version was the required remediation.  So long Norton, good riddance!

      • #2368837
        scoobydoo
        AskWoody Plus

        Looks to me like a marketing-driven gimmick intended to reel in new customers by splashing the C-word all over the package.

        Adds no value to the product for me. I’d like them to spend their dev money on security features instead.

        Not to forget: just because a software maker includes a “new feature,” doesn’t mean that it works as promised or expected.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2368844
        spencer.p.lane
        AskWoody Plus

        Why are they introducing this feature now? Ethereum is moving from energy intensive Proof of Work* (PoW), or mining, to Proof of Stake** (PoS). Ethereum 2.0 will come online sometime this summer where the validation process will use PoS. I’m scratching my head over this idea.

        From https://info.etherscan.com/glossary/

        *Proof-of-Work (PoW)
        A piece of data (the proof) that requires significant computation to find. In Ethereum, miners must find a numeric solution to the Ethash algorithm that meets a network-wide difficulty target.

        **Proof-of-Stake (PoS)
        Proof-of-Stake is a method by which a cryptocurrency blockchain protocol aims to achieve distributed consensus. Proof-of-Stake asks users to prove ownership of a certain amount of cryptocurrency (their “stake” in the network) in order to be able to participate in the validation of transactions.

      • #2368848
        Elrod
        AskWoody Plus

        I dumped Norton/Symantec when they insisted on taking over a significant portion of system resources for their activities.  Apparently they felt that they weren’t using enough CPU already.

        At first, I read this story and parsed it as thinking they would be adding additional protection against cryptominers being installed on your machine.  Then I read the actual article and saw that no, they’re actually installing cryptomining as a feature.  This seems like a rather odd choice.  If I want to engage in this activity, I’d add separate software that just does this.

         

        Group "L": Linux Mint

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2368849
        Mariah
        AskWoody Lounger

        I never used Norton because it has always used too many computer resources, without adding more.

      • #2368864
        firstmerk
        AskWoody Plus

        When a software product moves to the state that you need a dual 18-wheel truck to go to the grocery store to buy milk, I make every effort to dump it. Norton went a LONG time ago.

        I hate business that try to be everything to everyone all the time, let alone something that is completely stupid at it’s core. Crypto/Bit is just another made up financial fantasy giving greedy people another way to gamble.

         

        3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2368875
        bbearren
        AskWoody MVP

        I left Norton so long ago that I don’t remember how long ago I left Norton.  I’ve helped a number of folks get rid of Norton to return their machines to usability.

        I have had no interest in cryptocurrency mining, nor do I expect any such interest to develop.

        Create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates, in case you need to start over!
        "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns
        "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware

      • #2368880
        ClearThunder
        AskWoody Plus

        I just downloaded the 137MB product ‘update’ for 360 and have been scouting around the GUI’s nooks and crannies and the only thing I see is they’ve made the ‘Dark Web Monitoring’ feature a little more visible.  But if they’ve added this cryptomining stuff, they sure haven’t tooted their horn about it.   You’d think that there would be a popup of some kind that informed the subscriber of a new ‘feature’  they just downloaded.  As usual, I have to find out these things from askwoody.  Otherwise, I’d have never known.

        But after reading the doom and gloom posts above, I haven’t noticed any extraneous or excessive CPU usage (unless you consider 1% every few minutes as excessive) from the Norton module, so maybe that’s an isolated issue. I don’t do crypto myself, so it’s a feature I’ll never use. But I still, every month, complain that I have been waiting a year for Norton to put a ‘block internet’ option in the system tray menu.  So when I leave the machine unattended for long periods, I guess I’ll just still have to keep unplugging the Ethernet cable. (sigh)

         

        "Censorship is thought control" ----- Ronald Reagan

        • #2368908
          anonymous
          Guest

          Almost as good as “Block Internet” tray option… I have a “control panel/network connection” desktop shortcut…  right click & choose ‘open network connection”… right click the active internet connection & choose ‘disable’. done…  when ready to reconnect, choose ‘enable’. done…   SOMETIMES enable/disable option appears with just a double-click of the desktop icon! However, that is annoyingly and puzzlingly inconsistent. Usually I just click ‘network connection’ option and disable & enable from there. Also have “control panel” in my pop-up start menu. Too confusing and too much work trying to find it using “Settings”/”Network and Internet”. Been using this method since December 2009 when I got Win7. Still using that machine daily, but also have Win10 for products & product features that aren’t supported in Win7.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2368874
        anonymous
        Guest

        Peter Norton

        Not dead yet.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #2368911
          BATcher
          AskWoody_MVP

          Peter Norton

          Not dead yet.

          I was speaking figuratively!

          BATcher

          Plethora means a lot to me.

        • #2369169
          anonymous
          Guest

          BATcher wrote:
          Peter Norton would be spinning in his grave…

          > Not dead yet.

          And a real good thing too…

          if LifeLock thought Peter Norton was spinning in his grave they’d try to monetize it, probably dig the poor bloke up with a plan to sell tickets. 🙁

          1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2368886
        BobT
        AskWoody Lounger

        I just downloaded the 137MB product ‘update’ for 360 and have been scouting around the GUI’s nooks and crannies and the only thing I see is they’ve made the ‘Dark Web Monitoring’ feature a little more visible.  But if they’ve added this cryptomining stuff, they sure haven’t tooted their horn about it.   You’d think that there would be a popup of some kind that informed the subscriber of a new ‘feature’  they just downloaded.  As usual, I have to find out these things from askwoody.  Otherwise, I’d have never known.

        But after reading the doom and gloom posts above, I haven’t noticed any extraneous or excessive CPU usage (unless you consider 1% every few minutes as excessive) from the Norton module, so maybe that’s an isolated issue. I don’t do crypto myself, so it’s a feature I’ll never use. But I still, every month, complain that I have been waiting a year for Norton to put a ‘block internet’ option in the system tray menu.  So when I leave the machine unattended for long periods, I guess I’ll just still have to keep unplugging the Ethernet cable. (sigh)

         

        As it says in the article, it’s being made available only to a select number of users in the test group, as of right now.

        Also something like that is hardly going to be turned on by default, is it.

        Still a daft thing to add to an anti-malware app though. Shameless cash-in / marketing bumf.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2368888
        krism
        AskWoody Plus

        If a company has a good software product, they will make it very easy to remove that product to test other products.

        Those that don’t, don’t.

        Unfortunately the world is still filled with folks who click on popups, who just can’t comprehend that a company is not out for their good.  But, it is what it is. Listen and hopefully learn. That used to be “live and learn” but with todays’ communication it is fairly easy to google (or whatever) and learn, without necessarily having to try it yourself.

        It’s a bad product for me. Move on.

        Group W (windows, current)
        - ThinkPad T570-20HA, i7-7600U, 2.8GHz, UEFI/GPT, Win10 21H1 Pro x64, 16GB, Sammy 256GB M.2 NVMe PM961. -

      • #2368889
        ClearThunder
        AskWoody Plus

        Thanks BobT.  I guess I’m not one of their ‘select’ users (Boy! Would I love to know who they consider ‘select’ and the criteria they use) then.  I do hope that when I attain that exalted status of ‘select’ user that the crypto feature is indeed user-selectable, or if set on by default, can be ‘turned off.’

        Since downloading the big update an hour ago, there have been two, very small (238kb and 138kb) product (not definition) updates.  So I’m guessing they’re fixing little bugs that have turned up. I only do manual updates, so I’ll be checking for new ones and keeping my eye on what they’re shoveling down the pipe.

         

        "Censorship is thought control" ----- Ronald Reagan

      • #2368895
        Kathy Stevens
        AskWoody Lounger

        On the topic Internet Security Providers at   https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/internet-security-providers/  it was established that, of the 21 voices contributing to the thread, ESET Internet Security received the most positive response followed by Bitdefender Internet Security, Norton 360 Deluxe, and then Windows Defender.

        Avast Premium Security and AVG Internet Security were nonstarters.

        I suggest that if you have questions related to a replacement for Norton you look at the thread’s postings.

        4 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2368905
        anonymous
        Guest

        Seems like Norton 360 feels it needs yet another feature to sell its suite. Personally I have not bought a security suite in eons. I certainly am not going to tie up my PC’s doing crypto mining. I think eventually cryptocurrency will go the way of world bank regulations and it won’t be attractive anymore and will fade away. Seems to me its a speculators dream right now but is so volatile it just doesn’t seem like it fits in with a security software company?

      • #2368913
        Microfix
        AskWoody MVP

        The only good norton I know is a UK built motorbike 🙂
        Have come across Norton/symantec many years ago with home clients groaning about how slow their PC was with Win98/ME/2000 and XP. Remove and replace worked wonders for them, enough said..

        | Quality over Quantity |
        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2368926
        anonymous
        Guest

        ? says:

        you are correct about the “good norton, ” Microfix. i had bad Norton NIS in the late ’00’s and it was truly bad. also had a good Norton a black 850 Commando, and i wish i still had it today…

      • #2368937
        sahalen
        AskWoody Plus

        My experience with Norton was many years ago using SystemWorks on WindowsXP. I had a series of problems running SystemWorks. One particular problem I decided to contact Norton technical support. I could only do this with email and the support department was located in India.

        They supplied me with a few resolutions which did not correct the problem. I wrote back to them stating that their solutions did not work. They again replied with the exact same set of solutions. When I told them I already tried their solutions from their first return email, they got back to me again with the exact same set of solutions. This went around and around 6 times. I then removed Norton’s product never to use any of their product again.

      • #2368942
        KB6OJS
        AskWoody Plus

        I’m with you, I’ll take a pass on this one.

        First, I don’t want <span style=”text-decoration: underline;”>anything </span>to do with cryptocurrencies. I’m more than happy with “dead presidents” and don’t need anything else.

        Second, I don’t need anything impacting the performance of my system or my network. My system isn’t a barn-burner to begin with, and I’ve maxed out the installed memory as far as it will go. (I didn’t know until after I got my newest system that it only had space for one memory module, and that can only be up to 16Gb, so that’s what I have. All the other Dell laptops I’ve ever had allowed two, so silly me for assuming that this one was the same! Lesson learned, next time I’ll ask!) Anyway, it’s sufficient for what I need to do, but I don’t want to put any more of a load on the system than is necessary. And crypto-mining is most assuredly not “necessary.”

        Third, I already have a more-than-sufficient security program (IObit Malware Fighter) combined with the Windows Defender program. Between the two of them, plus the firewall I have in place at home, I believe I’m well protected. (Now that I’ve said that, I’m daring Mister Murphy to smite me….)

        // Steve //

         

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #2369462
          Noel Carboni
          AskWoody_MVP

          As one who has optimized his workstation for productivity, I’m with you. The computer resources (not to mention electricity) I spent $$$ on are there to do my bidding on demand.

          -Noel

      • #2368965
        Tom
        AskWoody Plus

        Here’s an interesting article about this.

        https://www.theregister.com/2021/06/03/norton_crypto/

        I like the comments about storing wallets. Norton stores the coins it mines in the Norton cloud. Is anyone actually going to have access to the coins they mine?

      • #2369041
        blueboy714
        AskWoody Plus

        I’ve been using Norton/Symantec since Norton Utilities version 1.0 and every time it comes up for renewal – esp. the past years – I look for a replacement but always seem to come back to Symantec.

        Bit Defender is made in Romania, Kaspersky in Russia, ESET (which my employer used) is in Slovakia.  Symantec is headquartered in Arizona but they certainly don’t have many people there and are silent on where the development and support is done anymore (it seems to be a State secret).  The others I don’t have any interest in for reasons that have been already discussed.

        My local IT guy has been telling me for years to stay away from Norton – and Windows Defender is adequate.  I disagree with Windows Defender and just can’t decide on what to replace Norton with, so I am really curious to hear what other Ask Woodyites think.

        Thanks for letting me rant.

        • #2369115
          techweenie
          AskWoody Lounger

          Kaspersky was programmed by a russian, but has no ties to Russia. They moved out of that country. They are my number one pick. I’ve deployed it to over 1000 computers and have never had a virus problem with it. Other products like Symantec, Trend Micro, Comodo, and McAfee were all disappointments. For the customers that can’t use Kaspersky due to government restriction I started using Panda. Watchguard owns them now, and so far it’s working great. Very easy to deploy and manage.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #2369117
            Alex5723
            AskWoody Plus

            I use Kaspersky anti-virus (paid) for ages. Never accoutered a problem, virus…

      • #2369042
        Paul T
        AskWoody MVP

        I use Defender with occasional manual MalwareBytes scans.

        cheers, Paul

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2369138
        ClearThunder
        AskWoody Plus

        LOL…. I must be the only one in the whole forum who hasn’t had any issues with Norton.

        Yet.

        We’ll see if that changes when this new ‘feature’ rolls out.

        "Censorship is thought control" ----- Ronald Reagan

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #2369220
          Myst
          AskWoody Plus

          I use Norton Deluxe and not the 360 version (I’ve posted once I use Norton 360 but it’s just the standard Deluxe version. I don’t need all the bells and whistles of an AV. It junks up the system). Have been a long time user of the AV throughout all my years of various system usage. Never encountered a problem that buckled up my machine. Runs smooth as a baby’s butt.

          Win7 Home x64 MacOS Chromebook

      • #2369142
        Kathy Stevens
        AskWoody Lounger

        Our go to place when looking for product reviews is the nonprofit Consumer Reports because they do standardize bench testing of the products they evaluate.

        The following is Consumer Reports’ rankings of its top 10 paid antivirus suites for Windows:

        1. ESET Internet Security
        2. Avira Antivirus Pro
        3. Kaspersky Internet Security
        4. Avast Premium Security
        5. AVG Internet Security
        6. Norton 360 Deluxe
        7. Bitdefender Internet Security
        8. Trend Micro Internet Security
        9. F-Secure SAFE
        10. BullGuard Internet Security
      • #2369153
        blueboy714
        AskWoody Plus

        Almost everyone says they stopped using Norton – but they are saying what they are using NOW.  It would nice to know.  Thanks

        • #2369230
          anonymous
          Guest

          I cannot compare it with Norton (I’ve never used Norton), but my current AV of choice which is rarely mentioned here (for example it is not in Kathy’s list above) is the Panda AV.

          I maintain 2 old PCs (just as spares these days) which cannot run Windows 10 comfortably with Windows Defender. As an experiment I installed Panda, their RAM usage reduced significantly (I no longer have the numbers, sorry) and the PCs just felt more responsive (again no numbers).

          Panda usually performs better than Defender in the AV-Comparatives independent testing (although to be fair to Defender it is closer to the pack these days than a few years ago when it was well off the pace). See https://www.av-comparatives.org/comparison/ . Select “by value”, not “by vendor” and hover your mouse pointer over the columns to get the actual numbers. I notice in the latest “Performance Test”, Panda is best and Microsoft worst in the ranking.

          The argument for Defender is that it is by Microsoft (MS) so you are less likely to have compatibilty issues with the constantly changing Windows 10. This is a fair point assuming the left hand at MS knows what the right hand is doing.

          On the other hand MS are a “jack of all trades, master of none” software developer producing OK, adequate, 6-ish out of 10 software across a range of software applications. If you want something better in a specific area, you can probably find a better 3rd party solution in that specific area. But there might be compatibility issues.

           

      • #2369251
        wavy
        AskWoody Plus

        Our go to place when looking for product reviews is the nonprofit Consumer Reports because they do standardize bench testing of the products they evaluate.

        The following is Consumer Reports’ rankings of its top 10 paid antivirus suites for Windows:

        I lost faith in Consumer Reports more that a decade ago. A good place to start for cars MAYBE, but they seem to have their own biases and IMHO do not represent real life uses. And no I am not gonna even try to defend tha statement. It is Only MHO. Anything computer\tech related I would ignore them entirely. Again IMHO

        🍻

        Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.
        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #2369281
          Kathy Stevens
          AskWoody Lounger

          We find Consumer Reports to be a good starting point when trying to understand our buying options.

          Once we have defined our options, we go onto other sites, including AskWoody, to narrow down our search.

          Thus, the reason we started the thread On the topic Internet Security Providers at   https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/internet-security-providers/  .

          It is interesting that of the 21 voices contributing to the thread, ESET Internet Security received the most positive responses thus confirming Consumer Reports’ top rating of the ESET virus software.

           

          1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2369253
        lmacri
        AskWoody Plus

        From Lawrence Abrams’ 02-Jun-2021 BleepingComputer article Norton 360 Antivirus Now Lets You Mine Ethereum Cryptocurrency:

        As the difficulty of mining Ethereum by yourself is very high, Norton users will likely be pooled together for greater chances of mining a block. If Norton is operating a pool for this new feature, they may take a small fee of all mined Ethereum as is common among pool operators, making this new feature a revenue generator for the company.”

        I used Norton for over a decade but removed it from both my machines a few years ago when NortonLifeLock began forcing customers who purchase their Norton yellow box from an authorized retailer like BestBuy or Staples (paid in cash or by debit card) to provide NortonLifeLock with their credit card number and automatically enroll in auto-renewal before they can activate the product key they’ve already paid for. NortonLifeLock justifies this policy by telling users that they can log into their Norton Account, disable auto-renewal, and then remove their credit card number from their billing information once their product key is activated.

        I’ve been watching the decline of NortonLifeLock since Symantec sold their enterprise division to Broadcom in November 2019 and the NortonLifeLock home consumer division became a separate company. I consider Norton Crypto just one more nail in the coffin.
        ————
        64-bit Win 10 Pro v20H2 build 19042.985 * Firefox v89.0.0 * Microsoft Defender v4.18.2105.4 * Malwarebytes Premium v4.4.0.117-1.0.1318

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #2369254
          techweenie
          AskWoody Lounger

          I suggest not broadcasting specific build numbers of all your software to the world. Hackers can use that information to target known exploits.

          • #2369400
            Paul T
            AskWoody MVP

            Makes no difference what build you have, hackers are always targeting you. That’s why we have firewalls and AV.

            cheers, Paul

            2 users thanked author for this post.
            • #2369460
              Noel Carboni
              AskWoody_MVP

              And site blacklists. And brains.

              Start with the understanding that any sense of security a software package gives you is false and you’re on the right path.

              -Noel

        • #2369338
          Myst
          AskWoody Plus

          I used Norton for over a decade but removed it from both my machines a few years ago when NortonLifeLock began forcing customers who purchase their Norton yellow box from an authorized retailer like BestBuy or Staples (paid in cash or by debit card) to provide NortonLifeLock with their credit card number and automatically enroll in auto-renewal before they can activate the product key they’ve already paid for.

          I have purchased Norton AV at a retail store all along until last year. The previous years after signing into my Norton account and entering the the product key from the yellow box, my product was activated. I had a choice to set it to auto renewal and always chose not to do that. Each year was the same routine with no issues in having to give away my credit card number for a product I had purchased in Walmart or any other retail outlet.

          When I decided to renew online last year, I did need to purchase the same version and had to give them a payment method. Understandable since I was buying it online and not in a store. Once my AV was set into motion, I had the option to go to my settings and choose to manually renew as opposed to auto renew. It does appear Norton will have auto renewal as the default in order to install. As I said, there’s the choice of going back to my settings and changing it to manual renewal and setting auto to OFF with no problems.

          Win7 Home x64 MacOS Chromebook

      • #2369339
        OscarCP
        AskWoody Plus

        As already mentioned, I moved away from the Norton AV years ago and now I am using Webroot SecureAnywhere, which I find satisfactory and run in tandem with Malwarebytes once or twice a day (or after something comes up that arises my suspicion of a malware infestation.)
        My two main reasons for moving away from Norton were: (1) that it was getting increasingly loaded with software bloat and was taking longer and longer to scan a hard disk with no proportional increase of stored data, and (2) that it was causing frequent conflicts with other software I needed to use. No such problems, ever, with Webroot.
        Of course, Norton might have improved since I last used it, but I have had no need to use it again, so I couldn’t say.
        If I ever decide to move away from Webroot, I’ll do, once more, a careful research over the Internet to find something that is receiving the most credible recommendations for the Mac and for Linux (probably a different AV for each OS).

        Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group W (ex B) & macOS Mojave + Linux (Mint)

        • #2369383
          Cybertooth
          AskWoody Plus

          When Norton announced they would stop supporting Vista systems earlier this year, I searched for an alternative AV solution that would still work on that OS. Eventually I settled on a relatively little-known product named eScan. I chose it over the other leading candidate, Panda, because eScan includes a junk-mail scanner and in general appears to be more business-oriented. It has an old-fashioned, XP-era interface, but that’s not a handicap in my book.  🙂

          1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2369389
        Renee
        AskWoody Lounger

        Norton seems to make a mess of third party software installs, seems to spend too much os time causing slowdowns due to excessive cpu usage or underlying bloat….I would just can Norton. It is bad enough we have to run something for protection. MS defender ( or what ever flavor they like at M$)  seems good enough….quit supporting garbage! move on….and quit visiting those …ummmm “nasty sites”.

        I dumped Norton years ago

        pay attention folks!

         

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2369424
        scoobydoo
        AskWoody Plus

        Guess I am a Norton loyalist. My computer mentors recommended it to me way back when I got my first machine, and I have never had a need to change to another AV.

        I  got spoiled for years buying it for free after rebate at Fry’s. The golden days of free after rebate :). The rebates stopped after the “great recession” as I recall, to make a long story short now I use sales on Amazon and Newegg and it still looks like a good value to me for covering windows, ios, chrome from one license. A day or two before my license expires, the program will ask me for a new key, which I enter and just go on from there. Using this method, I’ve never been asked for a CC number that I can recall.

        I think Norton and other AVs took a big sales hit from Microsoft Defender, just because Defender costs nothing. Defender IMO was not a good performer for many years, maybe it is OK now. However I still don’t want to depend on it because of Microsoft’s habit of redefining their business model without warning, and then some product of theirs suddenly becomes expensive, decontented, or just disappears.

        I feared for Norton’s future after they were split from Symantec, but they survived. Then they hooked up with lifelock, not too long after lifelock got done paying off a big fine to the govt for fraudulent sales practices, as I recall. Norton seems to be surviving now too, but in my opinion, Lifelock is malarkey.

      • #2369441
        anonymous
        Guest

         

        This is dumb. I had assumed you meant that Norton was going to add some checks for unwanted cryptominers. That makes sense.

        While some people do like to mine for themselves, no one wants their software doing it. Webpages learned that fairly quickly, when they tried to implement it instead of ads, and saw how few people were willing to put up with it.

        Norton must be doing very poorly if they’re having to resort to the same strategies that malware and badsites use to make money. People must be realizing the free alternatives are sufficient. They were one of the first types of software to justify a subscription model, which would get them more money than direct purchases, but now people just don’t feel the need to have to pay.

        It’s one thing where I’m fine with Microsoft throwing their hat in the ring and driving out the competition. Malware protection is so vital to security that making it paid software just makes the computers in general less safe.

        • #2369459
          Noel Carboni
          AskWoody_MVP

          I’m fine with Microsoft throwing their hat in the ring and driving out the competition. Malware protection is so vital to security that making it paid software just makes the computers in general less safe.

          Sigh. If only they did it well.

          What do I mean? How is it we can add free software onto our browsers to blacklist known bad sites (not to mention ad servers, trackers, etc.) and it really works. You need not subscribe to the “assume the malware is in your computer and try to protect it from itself” school of thought.
          How is it that the OSs haven’t chosen to take the “just keep it out in the first place” strategy at all?

          -Noel

          • #2369469
            b
            AskWoody MVP

            How is it that the OSs haven’t chosen to take the “just keep it out in the first place” strategy at all?

            Er, SmartScreen?

            Windows 10 Pro version 21H1 build 19043.1052 + Microsoft 365 (group ASAP)

      • #2369456
        Noel Carboni
        AskWoody_MVP

        Sometimes a good way to make judgments is to take things to the extreme…

        Here we’re talking about a security program taking on a new task having nothing to do with security, and – depending how you think – even maybe at the Big Picture level contributing to a loss of world security.

        If a program sought to take on EVERY task – to literally become the Jack of All Trades – would it be good at anything?

        Do we prefer to pay for programs that actually DO something particularly well? Or just pay for some software to use up the available CPU and GPU time in our computers?

        I’m betting Peter Norton didn’t imagine his name being tied to this kind of thing.

        -Noel

        • #2369490
          Microfix
          AskWoody MVP

          If a program sought to take on EVERY task – to literally become the Jack of All Trades – would it be good at anything?

          AV companies know exactly what they are doing as mrPlankton keeps them in business, year in, year out, without thought or insight on the NPI.
          snark/ Supplimentary bloat, ‘New Features’ is modern and the most secure to use on your system keeping up with technology..quick, get it! before you are the victim!! /snark 😛

          Distinguishing ‘needs from wants’ during installation setup and configuration is where homeusers trip up. IOW always choose custom installation and take your time reading and ticking/unticking boxes/radio buttons where applicable.
          Seen sssso many default installations where the client does not even know what they have installed, what it does or what it can do which just occupies storage real estate, ignored and sometimes not updated, creating a new vector for miscreants..

          | Quality over Quantity |
          2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2369583
        sahalen
        AskWoody Plus

        I’m trying to unsubscribe to the email updates.

        • #2369624
          Myst
          AskWoody Plus

          Go to the top of this page, below the topic header to your right (in very small print) you’ll see “unsubscribe”. Click/tap on it, you should be all set not to get anymore email notifications for this subject.

          Win7 Home x64 MacOS Chromebook

      • #2370155
        LoneWolf
        AskWoody Plus

        Norton 360 adding cryptomining seems like police departments adding money laundering to their official duties.

        We are SysAdmins.
        We walk in the wiring closets no others will enter.
        We stand on the bridge, and no malware may pass.
        We engage in tech support, we do not retreat.
        We live for the LAN.
        We die for the LAN.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    Viewing 39 reply threads

    Please follow the -Lounge Rules- no personal attacks, no swearing, no politics or religion.

    Reply To: Norton 360 adds crypto mining

    You can use BBCodes to format your content.
    Your account can't use Advanced BBCodes, they will be stripped before saving.