October updates – here comes Copilot

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Here we go again with the monthly updates for Windows. Just a reminder that end of life for Server 2012 and 2012r2 is hitting. You can opt for 0Patch,
[See the full post at: October updates – here comes Copilot]

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

6 users thanked author for this post.

Jan-E, WCHS, pmbinc, lmacri, Lars220, creem

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AKB 2000003 has been updated for Group B Win7 and Win8.1 on Oct 10, 2023.

See #2593086 and #2593087 for information on Win7 and Win8.1 updates (Logged in Member access required).

3 users thanked author for this post.

SueW, Pim, abbodi86

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Last patches for Windows Server 2012 R2 as ESU begins from November 2023.
too busy with crashtestpilot?

Win8.1/R2 Hybrid lives on..

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Hardened Windows user:

KB5031354 Cumulative Update for Windows 11 Version 22H2 for x64-based Systems
KB5031323 Cumulative Update for .NET Framework 3.5 and 4.8.1 for Windows 11, version 22H2 for x64
KB890830 Windows Malicious Software Removal Tool x64 – v5.118

No hiccups.  Copilot had been rendered impotent prior to the update, and remains so.

Now running Windows 11 Pro Version 22H2 (OS Build 22621.2428)

 

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We were all once "Average Users". We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems, we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

Computer Specs

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Note to others reading this – he has removed Edge and because Copilot depends on Edge it won’t launch.  https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/uninstall-microsoft-edge-windows-11

Note I leave edge in my deployments and just get rid of the icon.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

3 users thanked author for this post.

deuxbits, 280park, creem

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NAS and Dell Latitude E54520 both updated with the same KB’s, no hiccups, impotent Copilot.

Both now running Windows 11 Pro Version 22H2 (OS Build 22621.2428)

Microsoft continues to update Windows 11 Pro on my unsupported hardware.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We were all once "Average Users". We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems, we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

Computer Specs

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No security updates for Office MSI (2013, 2016)
https://support.microsoft.com/help/5002093

2 users thanked author for this post.

joni1eye, PKCano

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I am running in VirtualBox a Virtual Windows 11 Enterprise edition version 22H2, Build 22621.2361. I was experimenting with removing Copilot from the Virtual operating system (i.e. not just hide the icon).

I found that none of Ms Bradley’s ways of accomplishing same would work for me. The only way for me to successfully remove Copilot was to use vivetool.exe and execute the command “vivetool /disable /id:44774629,44776738,44850061,42105254,41655236” from within the vivetool folder.

Does anyone know why the Group Policy and the Registry solutions wouldn’t work in my situation?

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They should work.  I would apply the October updates and see what happens then.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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Well, I installed KB5031354, which updated my build to 22621.2498. Rebooted. Then I changed the group policy per instructions. Rebooted again. Copilot still there. I was thinking it might have something to do with the fact that the Virtual Windows 11 was an Enterprise edition, but I am guessing.

This whole exercise is to satisfy my curiosity, not something important.

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Did you enable the “let me see early stuff” in the Windows update section?

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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Made a Macrium Reflect image as usual.

PC1 in my signature. Using Windows Update Manager (wumgr).

Couple of .NET updates which I installed first then rebooted. Then I had .NET 4.81 offered which I installed followed by one or two (can’t remember which) .NET updates.

Rebooted and then installed the monthly cumulative update. Rebooted again and I immediately saw that Search had been “helpfully” put back on the Taskbar with what looked like a giant ad for something alongside the box full of various nonsense that popped up above Search on the taskbar.

It asked “Do you want to keep this?” and I of course clicked “NO”. I have it hidden for a reason and I want it to stay hidden.

Checked to see Windows Update was “locked down” again and also checked my ShutUp10 settings to see if anything had been changed (it hadn’t).

Phew, this whole exercise took nearly an hour. Thank goodness I only have one Windows machine to bother with now, PC2 in my signature now has Linux Mint installed. So, I have one desktop PC and 2 laptops now running Linux Mint and my one remaining Windows PC would probably be joining them if it wasn’t for a couple of Windows specific programs that I use.

PC1: Gigabyte B560M D2V Motherboard, Intel i5 11400 CPU, 16GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1650 Graphics Card, 1x Samsung 870 EVO 250GB SSD, 1x Samsung 860 EVO 250GB SSD, Windows 10 Professional 22H2 64bit.
PC2: Asus H81M-PLUS Motherboard, Intel i3-4160 CPU, 16GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Graphics Card, 1x Samsung 870 EVO 250GB SSD, 1x Samsung 860 EVO 250GB SSD, Windows 10 Home 22H2 64bit.

1 user thanked author for this post.

deuxbits

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Something else I noticed when installing this month’s updates.

When I rebooted the PC after installing the cumulative update I saw the message “Installing Features”.

What “features” would they be, I wonder? I was under the impression Windows 10 was not going to be having any more new “features” right up to end of support in 2 years time. Yes, I know MS ‘sneaked’ Windows Backup into last month’s updates (and I’m still annoyed that the icon cannot be removed from the Start Menu at least).

Unless :”Installing Features” had something to do with the Search box reappearing on my taskbar when I had it hidden? People who don’t hide the Search box may not have noticed anything different after installing this month’s updates?

PC1: Gigabyte B560M D2V Motherboard, Intel i5 11400 CPU, 16GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1650 Graphics Card, 1x Samsung 870 EVO 250GB SSD, 1x Samsung 860 EVO 250GB SSD, Windows 10 Professional 22H2 64bit.
PC2: Asus H81M-PLUS Motherboard, Intel i3-4160 CPU, 16GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Graphics Card, 1x Samsung 870 EVO 250GB SSD, 1x Samsung 860 EVO 250GB SSD, Windows 10 Home 22H2 64bit.

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I haven’t installed the October updates yet but I did notice that Microsoft is pushing the .Net Framework 8.1 install to Windows 10 22H2 systems.  I’m guessing that this new version is a “Feature Update”.

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EricB wrote:

I did notice that Microsoft is pushing the .Net Framework 8.1 install to Windows 10 22H2 systems

Hi EricB:

I can’t find any information about a new MS .NET Framework v8.1 for Win 10 v22H2.

Is it possible you were thinking of the MS .NET (Core) Runtime v8.0 offered at https://dotnet.microsoft.com/en-us/download/dotnet or the KB5011048 Microsoft .NET Framework 4.8.1 for Windows 10 version 21H2 update I mentioned in my post # 2593310?
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Dell Inspiron 5584 * 64-bit Win 10 Pro v22H2 build 19045.3448 * Firefox v118.0.2 * Microsoft Defender v4.18.23090.2008-1.1.23090.2007 * Malwarebytes Premium v4.6.4.286-1.0.2163 * Macrium Reflect Free v8.0.7279

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deuxbits

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EricB wrote:

I did notice that Microsoft is pushing the .Net Framework 8.1 install to Windows 10 22H2 systems.

Do you mean .Net Framework 4.8.1?

On my Win10/Pro 22H2, I got:
* 2023-10 Cumulative Update for .NET Framework 3.5, 4.8 and 4.8.1 for Windows 10 Version 22H2 for x64 (KB5031224)

and

* Microsoft .NET Framework 4.8.1 for Windows 10 Version 22H2 for x64 (KB5011048)
——-
*titles come from the MS Catalog

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deuxbits

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In my post above, I reported on Oct 11 that I had received both KB5031224 (for 3.5, 4.8, and 4.8.1) and KB5011048 (for 4.8.1 alone). I promptly hid them with WUSHOWHIDE.

I don’t intend on installing any Tuesday Patches released that day until MS-DEFCON changes to 3+. But I checked WUSHOWHIDE today (to see if the problematic KB5031356 was still in the queue — it is) and found that KB5011048 is no longer there.

Just to be sure it hadn’t been surreptitiously/silently installed, I checked Update History (even ‘Other updates’) and ‘Installed updates.’ There is no listing of it in any of those places.

Microsoft says that KB5011048 was released on June 27, 2023, but at that time availability was throttled. That explains why I didn’t get it in June or July. Now, in October, the Microsoft catalog reports it as being new (it has not been replaced and it replaces nothing) and that “It will be offered as a recommended update on Windows Update on applicable configurations.”

Evidently, MS determined on Oct 11, when it was delivered in my Windows Update queue, that my configuration was applicable. But, today, I looks like MS changed its mind and took it back.

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WCHS wrote:

…I don’t intend on installing any Tuesday Patches released that day until MS-DEFCON changes to 3+. But I checked WUSHOWHIDE today (to see if the problematic KB5031356 was still in the queue — it is) and found that KB5011048 is no longer there.

Same here. After reading your post just above here, I did some digging and found the same thing…KB5011048 was gone from the list of hidden updates and there was no trace of it having been installed.

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https://devblogs.microsoft.com/dotnet/upcoming-availability-of-net-framework-4-8-1-on-windows-update-and-catalog/

4.8.1 correct?

That’s not a feature release.  Nor are we “seeking”

“The .NET Framework 4.8.1 is now rolling out gradually to customers seeking the latest content on Windows Update.”

Microsoft after a time does push out their later versions of .NET so I think that’s what’s going on.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

3 users thanked author for this post.

lmacri, deuxbits, WCHS

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racorbin2010 wrote:

The only way for me to successfully remove Copilot

You can’t remove Copilot just disable/hide.
Copilot is part of Windows OS.

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Windows 10 22H2 Installed Oct. 23 updates
Everything is OK

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deuxbits, lmacri

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Alex5723 wrote:

Windows 10 22H2 Installed Oct. 23 updates

Hi Alex5723:

Just an observation, since it might tie in with a comment made by EricB in post # 2593279.

Your image shows that WuMgr installed two separate for your .NET Framework (i.e., the “expected” KB5031224 2023-10 Cumulative Update for .NET Framework 3.5, 4.8 and 4.8.1 for Windows 10 Version 22H2 and the KB5011048 Microsoft .NET Framework 4.8.1 for Windows 10 version 21H2).  The release notes for KB5011048 state that “If you have already installed .NET Framework 4.8.1, you do not need to install this update.”
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Dell Inspiron 5584 * 64-bit Win 10 Pro v22H2 build 19045.3448 * Firefox v118.0.2 * Microsoft Defender v4.18.23090.2008-1.1.23090.2007 * Malwarebytes Premium v4.6.4.286-1.0.2163 * Macrium Reflect Free v8.0.7279

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deuxbits

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The Cumulative Update for .NET Framework, KB5031224 is a “Rollup” that contains KB5030841 (.NET 3.5/4.8) and KB5030649 (.NET 3.5/4.8.1) and will install one or the other depending on the combination installed on the computer.

KB5011048 is only for .NET 4.8.1 and not necessary if KB5030649 is installed from the “Rollup” KB5031224.

Correction: KB5011048  is the installer for .NET 4.8.1 if you do not have it installed. So you will need KB5031224 for the update to .NET 4.8.1 if it is installed by KB5011048.

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WCHS

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PK or Susan, I need your help. It appears that I have not installed either KB 5031224 or KB5030649. (Net 8.0 was installed in May 2020.) Do I do a separate install of .Net 8.1 from the MS download page

or, do I download 8.1 from the update that was just offered to me. All my apps that utilize .Net 8.0 seem to be working well. My OS is Win 10 Pro 22H2 (Build 19045.3448).

Peace, CAS

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After the passage of more time than I ever spent installing updates, I finally installed the missing updates relating to .Net 8.1 as well as this months updates . My OS is now Win 10 Pro H2N2 (Build 19045.3570.) I was able to easily disable the large search box that gratuitously arrived.

Peace, CAS

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PKCano wrote:

Correction: KB5011048 is the installer for .NET 4.8.1 if you do not have it installed. So you will need KB5031224 for the update to .NET 4.8.1 if it is installed by KB5011048.

I usually install the patches one by one, starting with the monthly CU first (this time it would be KB5031356 for Win10/22H2) , then the Framework update, and then the .NET 6.0.x after that — to avoid any chance of restarting before they are all downloaded and installed. I don’t have 4.8.1 and do want it, so I should
download/install KB5011048 first so it will supersede 4.8.0?
And then install KBKB5031224 to update it?

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WCHS wrote:

so I should download/install KB5011048 first so it will supersede 4.8.0? And then install KBKB5031224 to update it?

Yes.
Not sure it uninstalls 4.8. If it doesn’t, you can have several versions simultaneously. Trust Windows Update to handle whatever you need for .NET Framework correctly and leave the selection alone ,to whatever it thinks you need.

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WCHS

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A few Hiccups this time … KB5011048 Net Frmwk 4.8.1 FAILED (chgd to 4.8.09037 from .04084 after WU completed on 10/11)… 10/10 WU start: Frozen on 3/4 Installed (14 hours) and 3 was Net Frmwk in WuMgr – and with 3 Macriums – Re-Start 10/11 – Run WuMgr again … a 9/12/23 Net Frmwk KB5030180 (Security issue) repeated for OCT in this 2nd list (was NOT in 1st Oct WuMgr) and all installed OK after the new Downloads.

Tues 10th: MSRT & KB5031224 NetFrmwk.. / Wed 11th: KB5030180 NetFrmwk & KB5031224 repeat from yesterday MSRT – KB5031356 OCT CU

Since KB5011048 Net Frmwk 4.8.1 NOT Offered in 2nd WuMgr run, should I just move on, or What? Thanks as always!

W10 Pro 22H2 / Hm-Stdnt Ofce '16 C2R / HP Envy Desk-Ethernet - SSD-HDD/ i5(8th Gen) 12GB / GP=2 + FtrU=Semi-Annual + Feature Defer = 1 + QU=0

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See the Correction in #2593312 above. The update for .NET 4.8.1 is contained in KB5031224, so you don’t need KB5011048.

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PKCano wrote:

See #2593312 above. The update for .NET 4.8.1 is contained in KB5031224, so you don’t need KB5011048.

Thanks! & Sorry I didn’t read B4 posting… I actually thought it was to Update to 4.8.1 …..

W10 Pro 22H2 / Hm-Stdnt Ofce '16 C2R / HP Envy Desk-Ethernet - SSD-HDD/ i5(8th Gen) 12GB / GP=2 + FtrU=Semi-Annual + Feature Defer = 1 + QU=0

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EricB wrote:

I did notice that Microsoft is pushing the .Net Framework 8.1 install to Windows 10 22H2 systems.

I didn’t get it. I got security updates for .net 6.0.23 and 7.0.12
.net 8.0.0-rc.2 is beta. There is no .net 8.1

https://dotnet.microsoft.com/en-us/download/dotnet/8.0

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https://devblogs.microsoft.com/dotnet/upcoming-availability-of-net-framework-4-8-1-on-windows-update-and-catalog/  I think he’s talking about 4.8.1

I was on a computer remoting in yesterday (windows 10 22H2) and 4.8.1 was being installed. I need to see if it’s showing up on other “unmanaged” PCs.

 

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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deuxbits, lmacri

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Susan Bradley wrote:

I was on a computer remoting in yesterday (windows 10 22H2) and 4.8.1 was being installed.

Hi Susan:

I’m still confused. I have not installed my Oct 2023 Patch Tuesday updates and ASoft .NET Version Detector 22R2 says I currently have .NET Version 4.8 …

==== Installed .NET Frameworks ====
.NET FW 4.6.2 Windows 10 May 2020 Update(CLR 4.0)
.NET FW 4.7 Windows 10 May 2020 Update(CLR 4.0)
.NET FW 4.7.1 Windows 10 May 2020 Update(CLR 4.0)
.NET FW 4.7.2 Windows 10 May 2020 Update(CLR 4.0)
.NET FW 4.8 Windows 10 May 2020 Update(CLR 4.0)

(see attached .txt file for full report)

… but my Windows Update history implies that v4.8.1 has been included in my .NET Framework cumulative updates since KB5017500 was installed on my system in Sept 2022.

I guess I’ll have to wait until this Friday when my Oct 2023 Patch Tuesday updates are scheduled to be installed and see if this month’s KB5011048 (Microsoft .NET Framework 4.8.1 for Windows 10 version 22H2) is installed and/or if ASoft .NET Version Detector 22R2 detects .NET Framework 4.8.1.
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Dell Inspiron 5584 * 64-bit Win 10 Pro v22H2 build 19045.3448 * Firefox v118.0.2 * Microsoft Defender v4.18.23090.2008-1.1.23090.2007 * Malwarebytes Premium v4.6.4.286-1.0.2163 * Macrium Reflect Free v8.0.7279

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lmacri wrote:

but my Windows Update history implies that v4.8.1 has been included in my .NET Framework cumulative updates …

Which of the “children” of the parent KB5017500 shows up in Installed updates? Ever since 2022-09, in Installed updates, I will see the current 4.8.0 “child”, and not the current 4.8.1 “child”, because I have 4.8.0 installed, not 4.8.1. For me, the current 4.8.0 child is 2023-09 KB5029923 (I haven’t installed the October patches yet.)

In Update history, it’s the parent. In Installed updates, it’s the child.

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lmacri

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WCHS wrote:

For me, the current 4.8.0 child is 2023-09 KB5029923 (I haven’t installed the October patches yet.)

Hi WCHS:

Thanks for the hint.

Windows Update installed KB5029923 (Cumulative Update for .NET Framework 3.5 and 4.8 for Windows 10 Version 21H2 and Windows 10 Version 22H2; rel. 12-Sep-2023) with my Sept 2023 Patch Tuesday Updates, which matches my ASoft .NET Version Detector 22R2 scan result shown in post # 2593461.

I suppose I’m just curious why the cumulative .NET Framework for 3.5, 4.8 and 4.8.1 for Windows 10 updates listed in my Windows Update history (e.g., like the Sept 2022 KB5017500 I used an an example in post # 2593461) date back to Sept 2022 when .NET Framework v4.8.1 wasn’t available via Windows Update or the Microsoft Update Catalog until  late June 2023 per the MS blog post <here> that Susan referenced. Perhaps Windows Update was being used to  deliver feature and security updates for early adopters / beta testers of .NET Framework v4.8.1 as far back as Sept 2022?
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Dell Inspiron 5584 * 64-bit Win 10 Pro v22H2 build 19045.3448 * Firefox v118.0.2 * Microsoft Defender v4.18.23090.2008-1.1.23090.2007 * Malwarebytes Premium v4.6.4.286-1.0.2163 * Macrium Reflect Free v8.0.7279

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WCHS

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lmacri wrote:

I suppose I’m just curious why…

I look at it this way: the parent decides which child to favor, and the parent also decides how it will favor that child. And the parent can change its mind on who and how, but it might not need or want to or know to explain why. But, go ahead and psychoanalyze!! 😊

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Sorry for the typ0.  I meant to say .Net Framework 4.8.1

2 users thanked author for this post.

WCHS, lmacri

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On a system where they had closed the search box and only made it a magnifying glass, after the October updates the full search box was back.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/hide-and-unhide-your-search-box-in-windows-6d8252b7-864f-c1b6-6a56-3eea0cda08dc#WindowsVersion=Windows_10

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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The reports I’ve seen on this also mentioned there was an automatic prompt whether to keep or revert. Strange nonetheless!

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From https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/september-26-2023-kb5030300-os-build-19045-3516-preview-9d43fdfb-71a1-4a40-b217-4a43d4bd84db.  “New! This update brings back an improved search box experience on the taskbar. If you have a top, bottom, regular, or small icons taskbar, you will see the search box appear. You can use it to easily access apps, files, settings, and more from Windows and the web. You will also have access to the latest search updates, such as search highlights. If you want to restore your previous search experience, you can do that easily. Use the taskbar shortcut menu or respond to a dialog that appears when you use search.”

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

1 user thanked author for this post.

lmacri

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lmacri wrote:

the KB5011048 Microsoft .NET Framework 4.8.1 for Windows 10 version 21H2).

I am on 22H2 and I trust Microsoft to update the proper .Net versions.

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Alex5723 wrote:

I am on 22H2 and I trust Microsoft to update the proper .Net versions.

Hi Alex5723:

Is it possible that WuMgr and Windows Update handle the supersedence chain of the MS .NET Frameworks updates differently?

I haven’t installed my Oct 2023 Patch Tuesday updates yet, but perhaps WuMgr didn’t check to see if you already had a Cumulative Update for .NET Framework 3.5, 4.8 and 4.8.1 for Windows 10 Version 22H2 installed before it offered the (unnecessary) KB5011048 Microsoft .NET Framework 4.8.1 for Windows 10 version 22H2.
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Dell Inspiron 5584 * 64-bit Win 10 Pro v22H2 build 19045.3448 * Firefox v118.0.2 * Microsoft Defender v4.18.23090.2008-1.1.23090.2007 * Malwarebytes Premium v4.6.4.286-1.0.2163 * Macrium Reflect Free v8.0.7279

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Alex5723

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PKCano wrote:

Correction: KB5011048  is the installer for .NET 4.8.1 if you do not have it installed. So you will need KB5031224 for the update to .NET 4.8.1 if it is installed by KB5011048.

I did have 4.8.1 installed and I got both KBs #2593274

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PKCano wrote:

Correction: KB5011048 is the installer for .NET 4.8.1 if you do not have it installed. So you will need KB5031224 for the update to .NET 4.8.1 if it is installed by KB5011048.

Do we definitely Want 4.8.1? Conflicting Install Histories … A Nirsoft WU History app says KB5011048 Failed while requd KB5031224 shows instd twice — BUT…Control Panel History shows KB501148 INSTALLED 10/11 but NO KB5031224 .. and Regedit shows — 4.8.09037 –. SO, should I TRY KB501148 Again to net 4.8.1, or leave As Is? Thanks!

W10 Pro 22H2 / Hm-Stdnt Ofce '16 C2R / HP Envy Desk-Ethernet - SSD-HDD/ i5(8th Gen) 12GB / GP=2 + FtrU=Semi-Annual + Feature Defer = 1 + QU=0

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I’m running 4.8.1 on my computers and have had no problem.

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2023-10 Cumulative Update for .NET Framework 3.5 and 4.8.1 for Windows 11, version 22H2 for x64 (KB5031323)

2023-10 Cumulative Update for Windows 11 Version 22H2 for x64-based Systems (KB5031354)

2023-10 .NET 6.0.23 Security Update for x64 Client (KB5031900)

2023-10 .NET 7.0.12 Security Update for x64 Client (KB5031901)

Windows Malicious Software Removal Tool x64 – v5.118 (KB890830)

All were installed with no problems.

Now running Windows 11 Pro Version 22H2 (OS Build 22621.2428)

--Joe

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FYI

2 Windows 10 Home v22H2 systems (one x64 and another x86 system)
————————————————————————
After Macrium Reflect System Image backup were completed, resumed updates via Windows Update and installed the following:

-Windows Malicious Software Removal Tool x64 (x86) – v5.118 (KB890830)
-2023-10 Cumulative Update for .NET Framework 3.5 and 4.8.1 for Windows 10 Version 22H2 for x64 (x86) (KB5030649)
-2023-10 Cumulative Update for Windows 10 Version 22H2 for x64 (x86)-based Systems (KB5031356)
-2023-10 Update for Windows 10 Version 22H2 for 22H2 for x64 (x86)-based Systems (KB5001716)

For the x64 system, Windows Update installed the 2023-10 CU .NET Framework 3.5 and 4.8.1 for Windows 10 Version 22H2 (KB5030649) and 2023-10 Update for Windows 10 Version 22H2 for 22H2 for x64-based Systems (KB5001716) first and duly prompted for a restart. The other 2 patches were held under the status “Pending Download” due to the “metered connection” status. After the restart, Windows Update proceeded to download and install the other 2 patches after I hit the “Download” button.

For the x86 system, Windows Update also installed the same first 2 patches but this time there was no restart prompt. Hit the “Download” button to complete the install of the rest of the patches. Only 1 restart required.

New OS Build 19045.3570

1) Clarification : 2023-10 Cumulative Update for .NET Framework 3.5 and 4.8.1 for Windows 10 Version 22H2 is listed under the parent Knowledge Base heading (KB5031224) and is recorded in Settings > Windows Update> View Update History as such. However, the actual CU installed is (KB5030649) which is for .NET Framework 3.5 and 4.8.1 for Windows 10 Version 22H2 and is listed under Control Panel > All Control Panel Items > Programs and Features > View Installed Updates instead.

2) For context, the KB5001716 patch recent discussions in Askwoody Forum can be found here : KB4023057 vs KB5001716 – Update for Windows Update Service components and 2023-10 Update for Wndows 10 Version 22H2 KB5001716

3) I had to set the Search Box under the tashbar back to “Show search icon” again as it was reset automatically to “Show search box” after patching.

4) So far nothing untoward to report. Both Windows 10 Home systems are running stable since patching a day ago.

5) Additional info, just my previous experience when both my systems were upgraded in July 2023 via Windows Update from .Net framework 4.8.0 to 4.8.1 and their monthly 2023-07 CU for .Net Framework installations : Post 2573642

HTH.

 

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Jan-E

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Susan,
Could you tell us more about KB5001716? It’s not in the Master Patch List, although I’ve read here that it first showed up for some Home users in July, 2023. And that it’s showing up again in the October patches. Do Pro users not get it? If we get it, should we avoid it?

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FYI

Additional Info – Forgot to add under Item 2 above :

KB5001716 appears under both “Control Panel > All Control Panel Items > Programs and Features” and “Settings > Apps > Apps & Features” as a program under “Update for Windows 10 for x64 (x86)-based System (KB5001716) version 8.93.0.0”

HTH.

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FYI

Additional Info relating to Item 1 above :

.NET Blog – .NET Framework October 2023 Security and Quality Rollup Updates posted later on 13Oct2023 has the table of releases of the .NET framework Oct 2023 CU and their respective Windows Product Version.

It list and link the parent KBs and their .NET Framework version-specific updates e.g. NET Framework 3.5, 4.8 or .NET Framework 3.5, 4.8.1.

HTH.

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lmacri

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I installed the October updates on a clean Server 2022 VM as a test. After a reboot I was greeted with Azure Arc installed in the Start menu, with no way to remove. Even has a tray icon!

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Remove thru server manager > manage > remove roles and features. It will be listed under features, requires reboot to remove.

1 user thanked author for this post.

steeviebops

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Updated last night, to KB5031356, DOT NET KB5031224, latest MRT.

Took about 20 minutes on an SSD drive, everything went fine, system appears to be running well. Nothing about this Co-Pilot app talked about did I see when I checked, I do have latest version of Edge, but do not use any 365 apps I think what it is used for?

Overall, pretty normal update process, all running well. Just wanted to share how things went.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Jan-E

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KB5031356 is for Windows 10 so no Copilot.

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joep517 wrote:

2023-10 Cumulative Update for Windows 11 Version 22H2 for x64-based Systems (KB5031354)

This one failed to update on my Tiny11 installation. So sadly, I’m saying good bye to Tiny11. I’ve reloaded my Win10 Macrium Reflect image and all is well.

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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lmacri wrote:

perhaps WuMgr didn’t check to see if you already had a Cumulative Update for .NET Framework 3.5, 4.8 and 4.8.1 for Windows 10 Version 22H2

Wumgr doesn’t check. Windows update does the checking.
Both KB..224 and KB..048 were installed.

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Just got 09.2023 CU for .Net after installing 10.2023 updates. Got notified of new updates (notify=2) and security updates deferred to 14 days.
Update ran for 25min (i7, 32GB RAM) and needs restart !!.
“Getting Windows Ready…” took 15 min !

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Hi All:

Calamity!  I received the October updates for Windows 11 and installed some of them, but I left KB5031354 uninstalled to see how things shook out.  I use WUMgr to update, and I mistakenly left the automatic update option on, thinking it was off.  That app should have clearer instructions.  I also had InControl on, and that apparently didn’t work.

I log in the next day, and I find that the update was installed automatically, and that I don’t like it.  It changed my wallpaper, and other things.  I tried to change things back, but I couldn’t change everything, like Windows Explorer.  So then I tried to uninstall it.  No dice.  It looks like I will have to roll back to a previous backup.

BTW, the other updates installed without problems.

Mark

 

 

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Mark wrote:

I also had InControl

InControl doesn’t stop security updates only feature updates.

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Alex5723 wrote:

Mark wrote:

I also had InControl

InControl doesn’t stop security updates only feature updates.

In my experience, it doesn’t do much of anything.  Seems to be a worthless piece of …. 🙂  But, you get what you pay for.

Mark

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If you have it set for 22H2, it will keep you from being updated/offered to 22H3. That is what it’s intended to do. It doesn’t control monthly updates.

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PKCano wrote:

If you have it set for 22H2, it will keep you from being updated/offered to 22H3. That is what it’s intended to do. It doesn’t control monthly updates.

I think that it should, PKCano.  Microsoft gets around installing these updates by calling them security updates, when they are both.  What we need is a AI version of InControl or similar, that would know the difference and act accordingly.

As for 22H3, that’s not a Windows 11 feature update, it’s a another kettle of fish.  It could be Windows 12.

Mark

 

 

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I think you have the wrong information.

Win11 23H2 IS a Feature Update that is the next to come out this fall (shortly). InControl can prevent the update from 22H2 to 22H3, or allow the offer of the that nesx Feature Update. That is what it is meant to do.

InControl DOES NOT control monthly Cumulative Updates (ex. Build 22621.2283 for Sept, Build 22621.2428for October) and it isn’t supposed to.

Windows 12 is the next VERSION of Windows, NOT a Feature Update and NOT a monthly update.

3 users thanked author for this post.

Andy M, WCHS, Alex5723

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That’s what the other tools are for.  Granted it may be better named “InControloffeatureupdates” to be more descriptive.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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Susan Bradley wrote:

That’s what the other tools are for.  Granted it may be better named “InControloffeatureupdates” to be more descriptive.

Hi Susan:

What other tools?  I have WUMgr.  It sort of works, but needs a user manual.

Mark

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• BlockAPatch — Tools to help you hide or block updates

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

1 user thanked author for this post.

Mark

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Mark wrote:

Susan Bradley wrote:

That’s what the other tools are for.  Granted it may be better named “InControloffeatureupdates” to be more descriptive.

Hi Susan:

What other tools?  I have WUMgr.  It sort of works, but needs a user manual.

Mark

There is nothing simpler that WUmgr. I use it for years.

https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/60002-guide-to-using-wumgr-for-windows-10-updates/

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Hi Susan:

Windows Update successfully installed the following five October 2023 Patch Tuesday updates on my Win 10 Pro v22H2 laptop and I haven’t observed any negative effects so far.

• KB5031356: 2023-10 Cumulative Update for Win 10 Version 22H2 for x64 (OS Build 19045.3570)
• KB5031224: 2023-10 Cumulative Update for .NET Framework 3.5, 4.8 and 4.8.1 for Windows 10 Version 222H2 for x64
• KB5031900: 2023-10 .NET 6.0.23 Security Update for x64 Client
• KB5011048: Microsoft .NET Framework 4.8.1 for Windows 10 Version 22H2 for x64 **
• KB890830 : Windows Malicious Software Removal Tool x64 – v5.118

** Listed in Windows Update history under “Other Updates” with MSRT

The ASoft .NET Version Detector 22R2 utility now detects that MS .NET Framework 4.8.1 is installed (see attached .txt file) and Control Panel | Programs | Programs and Features shows the KB5031224 Cumulative Update for .NET Framework 3.5, 4.8 and 4.8.1 actually installed the bundled KB5030841 (Cumulative Update for .NET Framework 3.5 and 4.8 for Windows 10 Version 22H2).

My Local Group Policy Editor is configured so that Windows Update should only offer .NET Framework updates that include a security patch so I was not expecting to receive KB5031224 (2023-10 Cumulative Update for .NET Framework 3.5, 4.8 and 4.8.1 for Windows 10 Version 22H2) since the release notes <here> state “There are no new security improvements in this release.” Perhaps this was an odd month because of the installation of Microsoft .NET Framework 4.8.1.

As usual, I observed the early “Restart Now” glitch this month that always occurs when Windows Update delivers a .NET Framework update with my other my Patch Tuesday updates (see attached image and TechTango’s 02-Oct-2023 post # 2591028 in bsfinkel’s Where is Window Update?).

As usual, after Windows Update showed all updates had a status of “Pending Restart” and I clicked the “Restart Now” button the final installation / configuration re-booted my system at “Working on updates – 30% Complete. Don’t turn off your computer” before running to 100% completion, performing the final cleanup, and displaying my login screen.
————
Dell Inspiron 5584 * 64-bit Win 10 Pro v22H2 build 19045.3570 * Firefox v118.0.2 * Microsoft Defender v4.18.23090.2008-1.1.23090.2007 * Malwarebytes Premium v4.6.4.286-1.0.2163 * Macrium Reflect Free v8.0.7279

2 users thanked author for this post.

WCHS, Jan-E

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lmacri wrote:

Control Panel | Programs | Programs and Features shows the KB5031224 Cumulative Update for .NET Framework 3.5, 4.8 and 4.8.1 actually installed the bundled KB5030841 (Cumulative Update for .NET Framework 3.5 and 4.8 for Windows 10 Version 22H2).

That is strange, I think. I would expect the installed child to be KB5030649 (for 4.8.1), since you installed KBKB5011048 for 4.8.1.

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WCHS wrote:

… I would expect the installed child to be KB5030649 (for 4.8.1), since you installed KBKB5011048 for 4.8.1.

Hi WCHS:

Mystery solved. My Windows Update history shows that two additional .NET Framework updates were installed by Windows Update on 13-Oct-2023 (i.e., the day after my Patch Tuesday updates were installed). As far as I know these updates installed silently (I did not see a “Restart Now” notification in my system tray) and Control Panel | Programs| Programs and Features | View Installed Updates  now shows that KB5030649 (Cumulative Update for .NET Framework 3.5 and 4.8.1 for Windows 10 Version 22H2; released September 26, 2023) is now installed.

I’m guessing that KB5011048 (Microsoft .NET Framework 4.8.1 for Windows 10 Version 22H2 for x64) was a pre-requisite and needed a system restart to finish installing before Windows Update would install KB5030649.
————
Dell Inspiron 5584 *64-bit Win 10 Pro v22H2 build 19045.3570 * Firefox v118.0.2 * Microsoft Defender v4.18.23090.2008-1.1.23090.2007 * Malwarebytes Premium v4.6.4.286-1.0.2163 * Macrium Reflect Free v8.0.7690

1 user thanked author for this post.

WCHS

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lmacri wrote:

My Windows Update history shows that two additional .NET Framework updates were installed by Windows Update on 13-Oct-2023 (i.e., the day after my Patch Tuesday updates were installed).

Your list shows that 2023-09 KB5030180 was installed Oct 13. Had you installed it previously when you did the September patches, i.e., it’s a re-install??

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WCHS wrote:

Your list shows that 2023-09 KB5030180 was installed Oct 13. Had you installed in previously when you did the September patches,

Hi WCHS:

No, as far as I know the KB5030180 (2023-09 Cumulative Update for .NET Framework 3.5, 4.8 and 4.8.1 for Windows 10 Version 22H2, released 12-Sep-2023) was never offered to my system before 13-Oct-2023.

I assume that KB5030180 was not offered in September 2023 because KB5011048: Microsoft .NET Framework 4.8.1 for Windows 10 Version 22H2 for x64 ** has to be installed first, which didn’t occur until after my Patch Tuesday updates were delivered on 12-Oct-2023 and my system was restarted to complete the installation.

** NOTE: If installed,the Microsoft .NET Framework 4.8.1 (KB5011048) will be listed in the Windows Update history under “Other Updates” with the Malicious Software Removal Tool (KB890830) updates, not under Quality Updates with the monthly cumulative .NET Framework updates.

I normally delay my Patch Tuesday update a few days on my Win 10 Pro machine (Windows Update | Advanced Settings | Pause Updates Until) and monitor online feedback just to make sure there are no serious bugs reported by early adopters, but I leave it up to Windows Update to check the supersedence chains of my installed updates and determine what updates are appropriate for my system.  I don’t bother hiding updates like KB4023057 (Microsoft Update Health Tools) or KB5005463 (Windows PC Health Check) or using third-party Windows Update management tools like WuMgr.
————
Dell Inspiron 5584 * 64-bit Win 10 Pro v22H2 build 19045.3570 * Firefox v118.0.2 * Microsoft Defender v4.18.23090.2008-1.1.23090.2007 * Malwarebytes Premium v4.6.4.286-1.0.2163 * Macrium Reflect Free v8.0.7690

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lmacri wrote:

I assume that KB5030180 was not offered in September 2023 because KB5011048: Microsoft .NET Framework 4.8.1 for Windows 10 Version 22H2 for x64 ** has to be installed first,

Interesting. I have not installed any W10 October Tuesday patches yet; they were all hidden by WUSHOWHIDE on Oct 10, the Oct Patch Tuesday release date — including KB5011048. But, I noticed today that KB5011048 is no longer in WUSHOWHIDE. And today, ASoft .NET Version Detector 22R2 shows no evidence of 4.8.1, so it hasn’t been installed silently. (and isn’t in ‘Other updates’, either)

In addition, KB5030180 (2023-09) was in the Sept 12 WU queue, hidden then, and later installed on Oct 7 — just before the October releases. So, KB5030180 was installed in the September cycle and happened without KB5011048 having been installed first.

And I can’t install KB5011048 in the October cycle when MS-DEFCON is 3+, b/c it’s no longer in the queue.

So, how I will get 4.8.1 (and its child) remains a mystery.
—————
everything I’ve said here is true of both of my machines, not just one of them.

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WCHS wrote:

…And I can’t install KB5011048 in the October cycle when MS-DEFCON is 3+, b/c it’s no longer in the queue. So, how I will get 4.8.1 (and its child) remains a mystery.

Here’s a link directly to the download for KB5011048 for Windows 10 22H2 x64 from the Catalog:

https://catalog.s.download.windowsupdate.com/c/msdownload/update/software/ftpk/2023/09/windows10.0-kb5011048-x64_411d40ab5705c99f2bdb576ad3dc3e6ec0f3902e.msu

If you need the 32 bit version, here’s the link for that version:

https://catalog.s.download.windowsupdate.com/c/msdownload/update/software/ftpk/2023/09/windows10.0-kb5011048-x86_74a24b713a0af00a9d437c06904e2f5237fd96c9.msu

Since these are from the Catalog, I would presume that they’re the full installers and will install any part of .NET 4.8.1 that may be needed. The only thing I’m not sure of is if this will create a parallel installation of 4.8.1 alongside the existing installation of 4.8 or if it will replace the installation of 4.8 with 4.8.1.

1 user thanked author for this post.

WCHS

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Bob99 wrote:

The only thing I’m not sure of is if this will create a parallel installation of 4.8.1 alongside the existing installation of 4.8 or if it will replace the installation of 4.8 with 4.8.1.

Take a look at @Imacri ‘s post at #2593792. There’s a .txt file attached that shows the results of ASoft .NET Version Detector 22R2. Both 4.8 and 4.8.1 are present after the installation of WU ‘s KB5011048 (i.e., not from the MS Catalog, but from the WU queue).

Can you assume that the WU delivery and the MS-catalog download are one in the same?

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Thanks for the refresher about the image in Imacri’s post. Since both 4.8 and 4.8.1 are shown, it means that 4.8.1 will be installed alongside 4.8 rather than taking it’s place.

I firmly believe that the same will happen no matter if it’s installed via WU or via the stand-alone installer available from the Catalog (i.e. 4.8.1 will be installed alongside 4.8 instead of replacing it).

Now that I think about it for more than just a moment, I seem to recall that the same thing happened on Windows 7 with .NET 4.5…the newer versions (except one, 4.6 or 4.7 maybe?) installed alongside the existing versions that came with Windows 7. When 4.8 was released for Windows 7, it also installed alongside whatever version of 4.7 was installed on the machine if I recall correctly.

@PKCano , what say you, since you’ve gone through this with Windows 7 IIRC?

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Before replying to my post above (post #2595980) please see my reply to @abbodi86, below here.

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I installed the October 2023 updates on a Win10 22H2 test VM .  At that time, KB5011048 for the .Net Framework 4.8.1 was offered and installed.

Installed updates are –

After installing, I followed Microsoft’s guidance at Detect .NET Framework 4.5 and later versions for verification.  The registry information verified that the installed version was 4.8.1 –

I don’t know how third-party utilities determine installed versions of the .Net Framework but based on Microsoft’s guidance  4.8.1 was an in-place update for 4.8.  Only 4.8.1 is installed.

 

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EricB wrote:

… I don’t know how third-party utilities determine installed versions of the .Net Framework but based on Microsoft’s guidance 4.8.1 was an in-place update for 4.8. Only 4.8.1 is installed.

Hi EricB:

I know very little about the inner workings of Microsoft .NET Frameworks and CLRs (Common Language Runtimes) so someone will have to correct if my assumptions below are incorrect.

I have a Win 10 v22H2 OS and the MS .NET Framework v4.8.1 (KB5011048) was installed with my Oct 2023 Patch Tuesday updates. My registry shows that my version of .NET Framework is v4.8.1 (Release = 533325)  based on the lookup table in the MS Learn article at How to: Determine Which .NET Framework Versions are Installed …

… which is the same version shown in the top panel of the  ASoft .NET Version Detector v22 R2 interface.

I don’t know how ASoft .NET Version Detector creates the list of “Installed .NET Frameworks” (CLR versions?) in the “Extra Details” panel ** but I assume it has something to do with the fact that .NET Frameworks are backwards compatible (i.e., if you have software specifically requires .NET Framework v4.7.1 then it will still run correctly if .NET Framework v4.8.1 is the installed version). This means that Microsoft only has to patch the highest .NET Framework version while maintaining compatibility with older .NET Framework releases.

This is different from MS .NET (Core) Runtimes. If you have software that requires .NET Runtime v6.x then you must install that specific version (i.e., not .NET Runtime v7.x).

EDIT:

** I should add that entering the command reg query “HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Net Framework Setup\NDP” /s into an elevated command prompt to display my .NET Framework versions (CLR versions?) creates a long list of output collected from other areas of my registry. Here’s a partial list :

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Dell Inspiron 5584 * 64-bit Win 10 Pro v22H2 build 19045.3570 * Firefox v118.0.2 * Microsoft Defender v4.18.23090.2008-1.1.23090.2007 * Malwarebytes Premium v4.6.4.286-1.0.2163 * Macrium Reflect Free v8.0.7690

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Bob99 wrote:

Here’s a link directly to the download for KB5011048 for Windows 10 22H2 x64 from the Catalog:

Hi @Bob99
In reply to your post about where KB5011048 is in the MS catalog, see my post <here>; I’ve decided to leave things as they are and not download KB5011048 from the catalog. I’ll wait until MS tells me that I need it.

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WCHS wrote:

And I can’t install KB5011048 in the October cycle when MS-DEFCON is 3+, b/c it’s no longer in the queue. So, how I will get 4.8.1 (and its child) remains a mystery.

Hi WCHS:

If v4.8.1 is like past MS .NET Framework versions then it’s not really something you have to worry about. If you install new software that requires the latest .NET Framework v4.8.1 as a minimum system requirement and you don’t already have it then v4.8.1 should be offered as a bundled download during the software installation.

I doubt I have any software on my Win 10 system that currently requires Microsoft .NET Framework v4.8.1 (KB5011048), and it’s being rolled out gradually as Susan noted in post #  2593374, so perhaps that’s why it’s disappeared from your Windows Update queue.
————-
Dell Inspiron 5584 * 64-bit Win 10 Pro v22H2 build 19045.3570 * Firefox v118.0.2 * Microsoft Defender v4.18.23090.2008-1.1.23090.2007 * Malwarebytes Premium v4.6.4.286-1.0.2163 * Macrium Reflect Free v8.0.7690

1 user thanked author for this post.

WCHS

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lmacri wrote:

If v4.8.1 is like past MS .NET Framework versions then it’s not really something you have to worry about.

Hi Imacri,
The interesting thing is that MS rolled it out to both of my devices, but since I did not install it right away, MS took it back.

I won’t worry about it, though. I’ll just install whatever Oct 10 patches are still there in WUSHOWHIDE when MS-DEFCON is raised to 3+ (i.e., before the November patches come down the pike) and call it a day, i.e., I won’t force it with a download from the MS catalog; I’ll just wait until/if/when I hear about it from the WU queue again.

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FWIW: On my Win10 Pro 22H2 system KB5030180 was offered and installed on Sept 26th. See https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/october-updates-here-comes-copilot/#post-2593903

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Win10 22H2 build 19045.3448 constantly fails installing KB5031356, the cumulative update. It seems to install OK, but reboots twice at 26% and 27% (in stead of the usual 30%). After the first reboot the font changes and the message becomes ‘Updating your system (27%). And after the 2nd reboot at 27% it cannot complete the updates, undoing changes and fails with error 0x800719e4. The Update troubleshooter, dism Restorehealth, sfc /scannow all completed without errors. The .NET 3.5, 4.8 and 4.8.1 update (KB5031224) and before that the 2023-10 Update for Win10 22H2 (KB5001716) and a couple of other updates installed fine. System: Lenovo X220 i7. Any ideas?

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Do a repair install over the top.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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Jan-E wrote:

and before that the 2023-10 Update for Win10 22H2 (KB5001716)

Is your Win 10, 22H2 a Home edition? or a Pro edition? Some posters say they have installed KB5001716, but WU never delivered this one to my Win 10/Pro. I am wondering why, and conjecture that it is delivered only to Home editions.

KB5001716 is not on the Master Patch list. I also wonder why it’s not there.

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Win10 Pro with a lot of Visual Studio versions (2008, 2010, 2012, 2015, 2017, 2019, 2022), so I am hesitant to do a repair install over it. I will probably do a full clone of my 1TB SSD before trying to do that.

1 user thanked author for this post.

WCHS

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WCHS wrote:

Some posters say they have installed KB5001716, but WU never delivered this one to my Win 10/Pro. I am wondering why, and conjecture that it is delivered only to Home editions.

Hi WCHS:

See Gunter Born’s 07-Oct-2023 blog post at https://borncity.com/win/2023/10/07/windows-10-update-kb5001716-for-update-service-components-oct-2022/ which states in part :

“Microsoft has released the update KB5001716 for machines with older Windows 10 versions on Oct. 3, 2023. The package updates the Update Service components so that the machine can be updated to a newer Windows 10 build…The purpose of this update is to get machines that have failed a Windows 10 feature update, and have support expiring or expired, to upgrade after all…Once this update is installed, Windows checks to see if support for the currently installed version of Windows is about to expire or has already reached the end of support. If this is the case, Windows 10 will attempt to download and install a feature update to the device. This is to ensure continued support for the machine running Windows 10.”

If you have the latest Win 10 v22H2 Feature Update and your monthly Quality Updates are installing as expected then it sounds like you don’t need KB5001716.
—————
Dell Inspiron 5584 * 64-bit Win 10 Pro v22H2 build 19045.3570 * Firefox v118.0.2 * Microsoft Defender v4.18.23090.2008-1.1.23090.2007 * Malwarebytes Premium v4.6.4.286-1.0.2163 * Macrium Reflect Free v8.0.7690

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The Feature update to Windows 10/Pro, version 22H2 was installed on Oct 19, 2022 on my laptop. I do not have failed feature or quality updates and still got KB5001716. Weird.

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Is your device eligible for Windows 11, i.e., it has the hardware and chip(s) to support Windows 11?

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No. So, that might be the reason for getting KB5001716. But it does not explain the failing of KB5031356. On a machine with even lower specs (Lenovo X220 i5 in stead of i7) the cumulative update of this month installed flawlessly:

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As part of a test group at work, installed the October Cumulative Update KB5031356 on my Windows 10 Enterprise 21H2 work PC. The update was downloaded from the Microsoft Catalog as is usually the case when manually installing updates like this, instead of SCCM (System Center Configuration Manager) normally used to push out updates by our IT Dept.

The install completed without error, but it took just over 1 hour to complete despite nothing else being done on the PC. Noticed in Task Manager, the Windows Modules Installer was using a constant 30-40% CPU the entire time along with frequent disk activity on the SSD. Then the required reboot was longer than past months. Not sure why it took so long this time as previous cumulative updates would complete in 30 minutes or less. Nothing has changed on the PC and it’s always kept highly optimized to run at peak performance. At least the October Cumulative Update for .NET Framework 3.5, 4.8 and 4.8.1 KB5031223 completed within a few minutes followed by a normal reboot.

However after the whole process I couldn’t help but think how bloated Windows seems to be and the underlying architecture needs an overhaul so updates never take so long. As a comparison, for the same amount of time (or less) that this process took just to update Windows, I could have done a complete clean install of Linux Mint as well as installed all needed updates/patches for it.

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You could clean install windows 10/11 in the same amount of time.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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A clean install AND installing all updates/patches (ex. via Windows Update) can be done within 1 hour or less? Not including the required reboot(s) and “Working on updates… Don’t turn off your computer”. 🙂

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Successful updates:

x2 Win11 Pro in Parallels VMs on Apple Silicon Macs update to Build 22621.2428
KB5031355 2023-10 CU
KB5031323 .NET Framework 3.5/4.8.1

x1 Win11 Pro on HP AMD Desktop update to Build 22621.2428
KB5031355 2023-10 CU
KB5031323 .NET Framework CU (3.5/4.8.1)

x2 Win10 Pro in Parallels VMs on Intel Macs update to Build 19045.3570
KB5031356 2023-10 CU
KB5011048 .NET Framework 4.8.1
KB5031224 .NET Framework 2023-10 CU (3.3-4.8.1)

x1 Win10 Pro on old Dell Laptop Inspiron XPS1340 update to Build 19045.3570
KB5031356 2023-10 CU
KB5011048 .NET Framework 4.8.1
KB5031224 .NET Framework 2023-10 CU (3.3-4.8.1)

I have successfully removed Edge from all the above using AveYO’s Edge_Removal script and disabled Copilot on the Win11 machines using the WindowsCopilot Policy Definitions (.admx.adml) and through Registry entries.

2 users thanked author for this post.

WCHS, Microfix

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PKCano wrote:

I have successfully removed Edge from all the above using AveYO’s Edge_Removal script

It’s a beauty of a script which also needs surgery thereafter 😉

October report:
Three of four x64 W10 devices updated this month which already had .NET4.8.1
One of which won’t accept the security update kb5031356 CU../sigh
After 30% reboot, fails at 99% and rollsback.
Tried thrice, 1st via WUmgr then WU and Catalog patch, still no go.
Softwaredistribution folder was cleared between efforts.
2nd & 3rd attempt, AV was off, GUI skin off on that device.
All prerequisits were met by each device and all have edge removed using Aveyo’s script a year ago. Go figure..?!
Win8.1 using Win Server 2012 R2 patching was a breeze.

Win8.1/R2 Hybrid lives on..

2 users thanked author for this post.

abbodi86, WCHS

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Microfix wrote:

One of which won’t accept the security update kb5031356 CU../sigh
After 30% reboot, fails at 99% and rollsback.

Does running Dism /online /cleanup-image /RestoreHealth as administrator fix the problem so that KB5031356 will run again successfully?

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In my case it did not not. I ran the update troubleshooter, reset the Software Distribution folder, ran dism Check / Scan and Restore health, checked sfc /scannow (no errors). KB5031356 kept on failing with error 0x800719e4.

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Jan-E wrote:

… KB5031356 kept on failing with error 0x800719e4.

Hi Jan-E:

The solution in the MS Answers forum at Windows Update Fails with Error Code 0x800719e4 is the same solution suggested to you by Susan Bradley in post # 2593825 – do an over-the-top repair install as instructed in the TenForums tutorial How to Do a Repair Install of Windows 10 with an In-place Upgrade. As noted in those instructions, “You will keep all apps, programs and personal data, just as when you upgrade, as an in-place upgrade repair uses the same basic mechanism as when you upgrade.”
————
Dell Inspiron 5584 * 64-bit Win 10 Pro v22H2 build 19045.3570 * Firefox v118.0.2 * Microsoft Defender v4.18.23090.2008-1.1.23090.2007 * Malwarebytes Premium v4.6.4.286-1.0.2163 * Macrium Reflect Free v8.0.7690

1 user thanked author for this post.

Jan-E

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Last device CU kb5031356 is IN! 🙂

Within an elevated cmd prompt I ran the following:

DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth

followed by:

sfc /scannow

Then I checked Reserved Storage, this was OFF on the device which would not take the CU kb5031356. I switched it back ON by inputting the following within an elevated cmd prompt:

To check reserved storage status:

DISM /Online /Get-ReservedStorageState

To Enable:

DISM /Online /Set-ReservedStorageState /State:Enabled

Restarted device and started the CU installation using WU as intended by OS.
1/2hr to install, then restart, 15 mins later SUCCESS!!!

4th time lucky, no errors thereafter but some services changed. biometrics and others I had disabled. HUGE searchbar with Win11 style panel and Edge returned, but not for long 😉

So what I can digest here is to check that Reserved Storage is ON before commencing the October CU otherwise it won’t stick on some devices.

That System is now imaged post Oct patching, as I don’t want to go through that again..

Win8.1/R2 Hybrid lives on..

3 users thanked author for this post.

WCHS, lmacri, Jan-E

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Susan Bradley wrote:

• BlockAPatch — Tools to help you hide or block updates

Thanks for replying, Susan.

I was using WUShowHide, but I learned from Microsoft that it was being deprecated, so I switched to WUMgr.  I haven’t tried Windows Update Mini Tool.  Would you recommend it?

Mark

 

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Mark wrote:

I was using WUShowHide, but I learned from Microsoft that it was being deprecated

All they deprecated was the download link for it.

The actual WUShowHide tool (wushowhide.diagcab) can still be downloaded from various non-Microsoft sites like How to Hide or Show Windows Updates in Windows 10 on the Windows Ten Forums and it still works just fine.

Of course, like many others, I find the WUmgr interface much easier to use to hide things since it displays what’s hidden or not all at once.

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<cough>  Or the link on Blocking Windows Updates That Trigger Issues – Blocking Windows Updates That Trigger Issues (blockapatch.com)

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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Also checkout Askwoody Newsletter WUshowhide is back!  from 2021.

HTH.

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WCHS wrote:

Jan-E wrote:

and before that the 2023-10 Update for Win10 22H2 (KB5001716)

Is your Win 10, 22H2 a Home edition? or a Pro edition? Some posters say they have installed KB5001716, but WU never delivered this one to my Win 10/Pro. I am wondering why, and conjecture that it is delivered only to Home editions.

KB5001716 is not on the Master Patch list. I also wonder why it’s not there.

Apart from the monthly Malicious Software Removal updates, a driver update for HID Global – Biometric and the daily Defender definition updates these are my Quality Updates. With KB5031356 failing 3 times by now. Note that KB 5001716 is there as well.

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see if this guidance from MS helps with your failing update

2 users thanked author for this post.

lmacri, Jan-E

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Mark wrote:

I use WUMgr to update, and I mistakenly left the automatic update option on, thinking it was off. That app should have clearer instructions.

You might look into WAUManager.

We’ve used it for several years and never had an issue.

 

 

1 user thanked author for this post.

Mark

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Microsoft is using KIR to recall KB5031356 update.

Microsoft’s solution :

Run command Prompt as Administrator. To do this, you can open the Start menu and type ‘cmd’. From the right-side panel of the search results, select the option ‘Run as administrator’

In the window that opens, type the following to execute a restore command: Dism /online /cleanup-image /RestoreHealth

Wait for it to complete successfully, then close the windows. You can now search for updates again from the Windows Updates from the Settings view.

3 users thanked author for this post.

WCHS, oldfry, lmacri

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I actually think it’s more than just dism restorehealth.
Check Reserved Storage is ON, otherwise infinatum awaits for some older devices. UEFI installations are fine but legacy MBR run into issues.
See #2594277 on how to check and change if required.
CBS.log was huge as well as frustration of a failure without Reserved Storage active behind my back at some point.

Win8.1/R2 Hybrid lives on..

2 users thanked author for this post.

WCHS, Jan-E

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No luck here. ReservedStorage was already enabled:

D:\>DISM /Online /Get-ReservedStorageState

Deployment Image Servicing and Management tool
Version: 10.0.19041.844

Image Version: 10.0.19045.3448
Reserved storage is enabled.
The operation completed successfully.

D:\>DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth

Deployment Image Servicing and Management tool
Version: 10.0.19041.844

Image Version: 10.0.19045.3448

[===========================84.9%================= ]
[==========================100.0%==========================]
The restore operation completed successfully.
The operation completed successfully.

After a reboot:

D:\>sfc /scannow

Beginning system scan. This process will take some time.

Beginning verification phase of system scan.
Verification 100% complete.

Windows Resource Protection did not find any integrity violations.

KB5031356 kept on failing. My laptop is using UEFI boot.

 

1 user thanked author for this post.

WCHS

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Does anyone have any experience with the Windows Update Minitool?  I looked at it but it seems to have a Russian origin.  I am suspicious of things Russian.  I would use it if other people had no ill effects from it.

Thanks.

Mark

 

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Mark,

I would do more research…

https://www.thehacker.recipes/a-d/movement/mitm-and-coerced-authentications/wsus-spoofing

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Does anyone have experience uninstalling KB5031354  Windows 11?

I tried, but nothing worked.

Mark

 

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No Group Policy entry on this Win11 Machine!

Edition: Microsoft Windows 11 Pro 64-bit
Version: 2009 22H2
Build: 22621.2428
Installed: 10/15/2023 17:42
Local Account!
Edge Active.

I got the icon on the taskbar. However, when I click on the Bing Icon in the Edge search box I get this:

Seems that not only will you not get CoPilot but also Bing with a Local Account.

Neither my Daily Driver or my Canary have entries in Group Policy Editor for Windows CoPilot!

FYI: I’ve decided to take a week and drive Win 11 on both machines, using StartAllBack, and see if I can live with it.

BTW: the switch to Win 11 via the @bbearren method was almost seemless.

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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For those who wish to keep and use Windows Server 2012 and 2012R2 past this months patch cut-off:   looks like you can install Azure Arc on those servers and provision ESU to it to extend security patches to October 2026.

More info here:

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/azure-arc/servers/prepare-extended-security-updates

 

~ Group "Weekend" ~

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Not without licensing.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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Just had a machine in to the workshop with repeated failure to install KB5031356 but the error code is 0x800719e4 rather than the code suggested by Microsoft. In the process of doing a repair upgrade at the moment on this W10 22H2 machine in the hope that it will fix the issue.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Jan-E

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That is the same error code I am still having. See this post for details. https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/october-updates-here-comes-copilot/#post-2593791
I did not try a repair upgrade yet.

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RetiredGeek wrote:

No Group Policy entry on this Win11 Machine!

Edition: Microsoft Windows 11 Pro 64-bit
Version: 2009 22H2
Build: 22621.2428
Installed: 10/15/2023 17:42
Local Account!
Edge Active.

I got the icon on the taskbar. However, when I click on the Bing Icon in the Edge search box I get this:

Seems that not only will you not get CoPilot but also Bing with a Local Account.

Neither my Daily Driver or my Canary have entries in Group Policy Editor for Windows CoPilot!

FYI: I’ve decided to take a week and drive Win 11 on both machines, using StartAllBack, and see if I can live with it.

BTW: the switch to Win 11 via the @bbearren method was almost seemless.

CoPilot didn’t show up on Group Policy for me at first, but after several restarts, it did and I turned it off.

Mark

Windows 11 Pro current version

 

 

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Paul wrote:

Just had a machine in to the workshop with repeated failure to install KB5031356 but the error code is 0x800719e4 rather than the code suggested by Microsoft. In the process of doing a repair upgrade at the moment on this W10 22H2 machine in the hope that it will fix the issue.

It did fix the issue on my customer machine. Repair upgrade may be the best way to go. There are many tutorials on how to do this and to download the installation media so I won’t repeat what is already out there.

 

2 users thanked author for this post.

WCHS, Jan-E

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Paul wrote:

Repair upgrade may be the best way to go.

Is “repair upgrade” the same thing as “repair over the top” (see Susan’s post at #2593825)?

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Bob99 wrote:

Thanks for the refresher about the image in Imacri’s post. Since both 4.8 and 4.8.1 are shown, it means that 4.8.1 will be installed alongside 4.8 rather than taking it’s place.

Based on Microsoft’s guidance and documentation I don’t believe that FW 4.8 and FW 4.8.1 are installed side by side.  Rather, FW 4.8.1 is an in-place update.

Refer to https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/october-updates-here-comes-copilot/#post-2596096

2 users thanked author for this post.

Bob99, WCHS

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@EricB –

Touché.  🙂

See my reply to @abbodi86 just below.

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EricB wrote:

Based on Microsoft’s guidance and documentation I don’t believe that FW 4.8 and FW 4.8.1 are installed side by side. Rather, FW 4.8.1 is an in-place update.

Hi EricB:

I agree with that statement, but you might have missed the late edit I made to my post # 2596109 about the difference between the installed .NET Framework v4.x version versus the CLR (Common Language Runtime) version(s).

If you scroll down to the bottom of the MS Learn article How to: Determine Which .NET Framework Versions are Installed that you referenced the section titled “Find CLR Verions” states “The .NET Framework CLR installed with .NET Framework is versioned separately.” As I noted in my post # 2596109, I suspect the information shown in the Extra Details panel of the ASoft .NET Version Detector v22 R2 interface that shows the “Installed .NET Framework” clients might be the CLR versions that give .NET Framework v4.8.1 its backwards compatibility with old .NET Framework v4.x versions.

That’s just speculation on my part, however, since I know very little about the inner workings of .NET Framework.  I also have no idea how to interpret the output from the command reg query “HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Net Framework Setup\NDP” /s that can be run from an elevated command prompt, but for now I’m assuming that ASoft .NET Version Detector does that for me and displays some of that information in the Extra Details panel.
———-
Dell Inspiron 5584 * 64-bit Win 10 Pro v22H2 build 19045.3570 * Firefox v118.0.2 * Microsoft Defender v4.18.23090.2008-1.1.23090.2007 * Malwarebytes Premium v4.6.4.286-1.0.2163 * Macrium Reflect Free v8.0.7690

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@lmacri,

I never commented on CLR versions associated with the .Net Framework.

Even so, the “Installed .Net Frameworks” section of the posted image all reference the same CLR version (4.0).  If this enumeration is intended to focus on CLR versions and not .Net Framework versions then it is badly titled and confusing at best.

If the list is intended to enumerate installed .Net Framework versions then I don’t find it to be credible.  Perhaps it is intended to enumerate .Net Framework 4.x versions that can be targeted by an application when 4.8.1 is installed.  But that is only speculation.

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Bob99 wrote:

Thanks for the refresher about the image in Imacri’s post. Since both 4.8 and 4.8.1 are shown, it means that 4.8.1 will be installed alongside 4.8 rather than taking it’s place.

I firmly believe that the same will happen no matter if it’s installed via WU or via the stand-alone installer available from the Catalog (i.e. 4.8.1 will be installed alongside 4.8 instead of replacing it).

Now that I think about it for more than just a moment, I seem to recall that the same thing happened on Windows 7 with .NET 4.5…the newer versions (except one, 4.6 or 4.7 maybe?) installed alongside the existing versions that came with Windows 7. When 4.8 was released for Windows 7, it also installed alongside whatever version of 4.7 was installed on the machine if I recall correctly.

@PKCano , what say you, since you’ve gone through this with Windows 7 IIRC?

All .NET Framework 4.x versions are in-place upgrades, they don’t get installed “alongside”

4 users thanked author for this post.

EricB, Bob99, WCHS, PKCano

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After doing more research, I have found that in-place upgrade is indeed the path stated by Microsoft for all versions of .NET Framework from version 4.5 onwards.

However, I have also found a statement on a couple of MS pages dealing with .NET upgrading and installation that it is indeed possible to have more than one version of .NET Framework installed on one machine. To me, that makes it sound like you can have 4.8 AND 4.8.1 installed simultaneously on one machine, which would explain why @Imacri is seeing ASoft .NET Version Detector report BOTH 4.8 and 4.8.1 as being installed on the computer.

Per MS’s information pages about upgrading and installation of the .NET Framework, each version from 4.5 on up has the same basic runtimes but the assemblies are different (or vice versa) from one version to another. This explains why a program written for version 4.5 of the Framework will work with version 4.8 of the Framework. BUT, MS also states that a program written for version 4.8 WILL NOT work too well with version 4.5, for example.

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However, I have also found a statement on a couple of MS pages dealing with .NET upgrading and installation that it is indeed possible to have more than one version of .NET Framework installed on one machine.

Yes, .NET 2.0 (include 3.0 and 3.5) and .NET 1.x can co-exist with .NET 4.x

.NET 1.x however is deprecated and not installed or used in Vista and later
most of its prgrams can work with .NET 2.0

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Further to the above comment by @abbodi86 – On my Win10 22H2 system .Net Framework 3.5 (including 3.0 and 2.0) is an optional Feature that can installed.

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EricB wrote:

.Net Framework 3.5 (including 3.0 and 2.0) is an optional Feature that can installed.

You may have some old software that isn’t compatible with newer .Net versions.

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