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  • Office Home & Student non-Core Updates

    Home Forums AskWoody support Microsoft Office by version Questions: Microsoft Office Office Home & Student non-Core Updates

    This topic contains 23 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  walker 1 year, 2 months ago.

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    • #201971 Reply

      CBA

      Presumably these questions pertains to all versions of Office Home & Student (I use the 2010 version) that are not Click-to-Run:

      1. Is it safe not to install updates that are not for the core products included with H&S? Feature updates and/or security updates?  As of late, I have only updated Word, Excel and PowerPoint and hidden the rest (like Access, Outlook, Publisher, etc.).

      2. If safe, should (or could) I go back and uninstall all non-core updates?  Or would (could) that mess up my Office 2010 H&S installation?

      Yes, new HDs are cheap, but as I have an older style PATA drive .. it’s not easy to upgrade.

    • #202143 Reply

      RDRguy
      AskWoody Lounger

      Are you sure your running the Office Home & Student 2010 package and not the Office Professional 2010 version? Access only comes as a stand-alone program or included in the Professional and other Volume Licensed Enterprise versions.

      Normally, as far as I’m aware, Windows Update will not offer updates security or otherwise for products that are not installed.

      If you got this from a university, they may have given you access to the Professional version download and/or the key for the Professional version install.

      Usually with MSOffice, in order to save space, during initial install, I believe you can select to fully install only its core components while the others are partially installed still in compressed format in such a fashion that, upon “first use” their full installation will be completed at that time.

      In any event, whether or not you use the additional component features (e.g. Access, Outlook, Publisher, etc.), if they’re really installed or you have the capability to fully install them from your Disk/ISO or other provided downloaded media, I would be hesitant in not installing or removing any or all “security” updates presented within Windows Update for these additional presently unused components of Office 2010.

      As far as “messing up” the core components/updates if you were to uninstall updates for components that you do not use, I would venture to guess that you probably wouldn’t but it’s only a guess as I really don’t know nor would I recommend it or guarantee that it’s OK to do.

      Maybe @sb Susan Bradley or another seasoned expert on MSOffice can offer you further advice on this.

      Win8.1 Group B (Pro) [x64]
      Win7 Group B (Ultimate & Pro) [x64 & x86]
      MSOffice Pro Plus 2010 SP2 (x86 Perpetual)
      MSOffice Pro Plus 2013 SP1 (x64 Perpetual)
      RDRguy

      • #202299 Reply

        anonymous

        Are you sure your running the Office Home & Student 2010 package and not the Office Professional 2010 version?

        Yes, I installed H&S from a licensed CD with SP1.  However, checking under W7’s Programs and Features “Change” I note that the other Office programs are available, but, red-crossed.  Maybe MS wants them available if a user wants to upgrade with a purchased license key…

        Normally, as far as I’m aware, Windows Update will not offer updates security or otherwise for products that are not installed.

        Well, I get them all.  Go figure.  I only have Word, Excel and PowerPoint installed plus some Office 2010 Tools, including a tool (?) for “Office Anytime Upgrade” (linked to promo.exe).  That may explain something…

        I believe you can select to fully install only its core components while the others are partially installed still in compressed format in such a fashion that, upon “first use” their full installation will be completed at that time.

        In my case, that’s seems to apply.  But, why I should get updates for compressed, not used components beats me.  Typical MS thinking, perhaps: we own your HD .. you don’t!

        In any event, whether or not you use the additional component features (e.g. Access, Outlook, Publisher, etc.), if they’re really installed or you have the capability to fully install them from your Disk/ISO…I would be hesitant in not installing or removing any or all “security” updates presented within Windows Update for these additional presently unused components of Office 2010.

        That sound like “Install all updates offered, regardless…”?!  Am I right?  Pretty silly as some are large and they accumulate over time.

        As far as “messing up” the core components/updates if you were to uninstall updates for components that you do not use, I would venture to guess that you probably wouldn’t…

        If the answer to the previous is “install them all regardless” I probably shouldn’t remove anything installed to date.

        It’s crazy, imho, to buy H&S because that’s what I want/need and to get the full MS Office package installed (albeit compressed) on your HD regardless.  Just because it suits MS.

        As I said, it’s not my HD .. it belongs to MS.  Oh well…

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        • #202310 Reply

          PKCano
          Da Boss

          Many PCs came with complete versions Office preinstalled as a trial. You had to choose to install then buy the version you wanted from MS to keep the components you wanted working fully. People didn’t use/buy from this installed trial, but like you, bought the commercial version they wanted and installed it from the DVD.

          If the trial version was not uninstalled first, all the parts of the suite remained, though not functional. It contained all the possible programs. Perhaps this is why you are getting updates for programs you didn’t have on your commercial version.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #202312 Reply

            CBA
            AskWoody Plus

            Many PCs came with complete versions Office preinstalled as a trial…

            My TP T43 came with XP Pro and a paid version of Office Professional 2003.  When I installed W7 the HD was reformatted in the process so nothing was left of the old stuff.  The Office H&S 2010 I have is a paid retail version and not a trial.  Your scenario doesn’t apply in my case.

            It’s possible that I made a mistake when installing H&S 2010 and clicked on something to install the whole Office Suite (to facilitate easy upgrade), but that was 5 years ago and it is what it is and I have to find a way to deal wit it.

            PS: CBA = I’m the original poster “anonymous”

            1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #202368 Reply

          RDRguy
          AskWoody Lounger

          @cba

          RDRguy posted …

          Usually with MSOffice, in order to save space, during initial install, I believe you can select to fully install only its core components while the others are partially installed still in compressed format in such a fashion that, upon “first use” their full installation will be completed at that time.

          Though not totally incorrect, let me re-phrase by adding …

          Microsoft Office includes a foundation infrastructure (top level program shell) that ties together all the individual office program applications/components (e.g. Word, Excel, Powerpoint, Access, Outlook, Publisher, OneNote, etc.) into one Microsoft Office package.

          The MSOffice foundation infrastructure includes common components/files that are used by one, a few, several or all of the individual office applications pertinent to the office version installed to allow for interface with the Windows OS Kernel, system drivers, etc.

          These common foundation infrastructure components also provide for the office application inter-office interface for data sharing, data input/output, command & control, etc. amoungst all pertinent office applications (whether installed or not) that the foundation infrastructure version is designed to support.

          I suspect that Microsoft, for maintainability & monetary reasons, developed a mostly common office foundation infrastructure that’s used/shared between the various H&S, H&B, Pro, etc. versions of Office 2010.

          Other MSOffice versions: 2003, 2007, 2013, 2016, etc. may use similar or somewhat different foundation infrastructures to accommodate new, modified or deleted office applications and/or features within the other MSOffice versions.

          When you first install MSOffice, the foundation infrastructure is most likely installed in it’s entirety so that it can fully support the subsequently installed default (or user customized) office applications contained within your version MSOffice install media.

          Though I still don’t think that either a security or non-security update would attempt to modify files that really aren’t there because the programs don’t/shouldn’t exist for uninstalled programs but … maybe they do exist.

          Look in your office program file directory at “c:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office14\” to see if files ‘MSACCESS.EXE”, “ONENOTE.EXE”, “OUTLOOK.EXE”, MSPUB.EXE” are there (the file extensions are probably hidden). I’d be surprised if they were if H&S was installed as per Microsoft’s documentation, these programs are not included in this version.

          But then again, if there’s an “in place” upgrade capability via another “product key” all the way up to the office professional version, these files may be there just not installed. If this is the case, this may explain why Windows Update is offering you updates for office programs that are not installed.

          If this is the case, then maybe you can skip installing updates for programs you will never install nor have access to unless you purchase an upgrade key and perform the in-place upgrade though my personal preference would be to install them.

          Though, I’m not sure just how much space you’ll save on your hard drive if you don’t do the updates. While at times the downloaded office update files seem large in size, office mostly replaces existing files with new ones and you should be able to delete the old system files using the disk cleanup wizard. Maybe you could also slightly reduce your Windows restore point storage space settings to further help with this. If you don’t use hibernation, I would also consider disabling it which will save additional disk space equivalent to the amount of ram you have installed.

          Additional info ~
          I’ve also read that another reason Windows update will offer you updates for non-installed office applications is if you had a previous office installation that was uninstalled and subsequently a different version of office was installed. Occasionally, office uninstall doesn’t always fully uninstall/remove all of its registry entries, files/folders or install/uninstall history/directories, etc. As such, when Windows Update runs, it discovers these still present office remnants then subsequently evaluates them and offers updates for them if any are found.

          “Microsoft Update and Windows Update offer updates for Office programs that you do not have installed” talks about this and other scenarios and though office versions from 2003 thru 2013 are listed in the “applies to” section, version 2010 is not. But it may be of some help.

          But your post above #202312 indicates that this is not the case as you performed only 1 office installation – this one on a freshly formatted drive.

          Finally, though I realize that you have a relatively small capacity drive compared to today’s standards, I would also maybe consider picking up a larger capacity IDE/PATA drive of 250GB – 320GB. Though used, you can still find them at reputable 3rd party hardware resellers for a reasonable price.

          Edit: typos x 4

          Win8.1 Group B (Pro) [x64]
          Win7 Group B (Ultimate & Pro) [x64 & x86]
          MSOffice Pro Plus 2010 SP2 (x86 Perpetual)
          MSOffice Pro Plus 2013 SP1 (x64 Perpetual)
          RDRguy

          2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #202534 Reply

            CBA
            AskWoody Plus

            Great write-up and indeed explanation!  Many thanks.

            I suspect that Microsoft, for maintainability & monetary reasons, developed a mostly common office foundation infrastructure that’s used/shared between the various H&S, H&B, Pro, etc. versions of Office 2010.

            Whereas this is understandable and indeed makes sense from a Microsoft business standpoint, as a simple end user, it’s sort of crazy.  It’s a bit like buying a low-end car having all the fancy options installed, but not activated/usable, in case I decide to upgrade later.

            Look in your office program file directory at “c:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office14\” to see if files ‘MSACCESS.EXE”, “ONENOTE.EXE”, “OUTLOOK.EXE”, MSPUB.EXE” are there…

            As far as I recall, OneNote is part of H&S, but (as I don’t use it) in my case it’s red crossed.  No, these files are not in the Office14 directory.  However, they are all available as .MSI installers in the MSOCACHE directory.  In fact, in that directory there are 10 folders with .MSI installers for pretty much every Office 2010 component available (almost 650MB)!  That may be why Windows Update pushes out everything too…

            …you should be able to delete the old system files using the disk cleanup wizard. Maybe you could also slightly reduce your Windows restore point storage space settings… If you don’t use hibernation, I would also consider disabling it…

            I use the cleanup wizard on a regular basis, as, without, I would run out of HD space fairly quickly.  And, I switched off the restore point feature a long time ago in favor of Macrium Reflect for all backups.  No, this is not brand name dropping, it’s a good backup.  Period.  As for hibernation, I never use it and it’s disabled on all my computers.

            I would also maybe consider picking up a larger capacity IDE/PATA drive of 250GB – 320GB…

            Agree.  I’m reluctant to buy a used HD, but if I can find a new WD Blue 250GB or 320GB I may do just that.  The T43 is old, but it has the ports I need and a good keyboard.  But, on the other hand, I may go for a refurbished X220 or T42, as both have the real keyboards!

            Again, thanks for this write-up.  Excellent.

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            • #202552 Reply

              RDRguy
              AskWoody Lounger

              @cba
              You hit the proverbial “Nail on the Head” buddy … we now know why this occurs to so many people complaining about this.

              The additional updates for the uninstalled office apps are being offered by Windows Update because their .MSI installers are in the MSOCACHE. Hum, I wonder if removing them would break the H&S Office apps functionality already installed? I’ll leave that up to you as I’m NOT recommending you do that, just letting my mind wonder.

              I’m surprised these additional apps are part of the official MS H&S Office install disk as the different versions have different DVD labels & I just expected it would only have the needed installers specific to office version. But, I didn’t take into account that’s it’s probably done not only for in-place version upgrades but also production cost savings as they only need one software data pattern when generating the DVDs.

              You are correct sir, OneNote is included in H&S, just a silly mistake on my part trying to do this from memory.

              As far as used HDs vs. new, new is always better of course if they’re still available and not cost prohibitive. I’ve previously purchased used IDE/PATA & SATA drives from eBay for 2 Thinkpad z61t’s, a z60m, an old HP XP Media laptop, 2 very old Compaqs and nine 3.5″ WD 7200 Blacks for an old Gateway desktop server I’ve modified/rebuilt to modernize it.

              Of the 16 or so used disks purchased, only one of the used laptop drives turned out to be bad and it was the one with Thinkpad’s part# on it. But I got my money back and saved money by not having to send it back. And best part is, after all these years (a few bought in 2004), they’re all still humming along great.

              Finally, as you, I don’t want to be a name dropper but if you’re still working with old HD spinners, take a look at GRC’s Spinrite Disk Recovery, Repair & Maintenance software here. I’ve had it since 2006 and still use it now & then and credit it for keeping the old drives alive for this long. If you’ve never been to GRC’s site, poke around as he’s got a lot of good utilities & tools, mostly all free.

              Edit: typos

              Win8.1 Group B (Pro) [x64]
              Win7 Group B (Ultimate & Pro) [x64 & x86]
              MSOffice Pro Plus 2010 SP2 (x86 Perpetual)
              MSOffice Pro Plus 2013 SP1 (x64 Perpetual)
              RDRguy

              1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #202558 Reply

              CBA
              AskWoody Plus

              The additional updates for the uninstalled office apps are being offered by Windows Update because their .MSI installers are in the MSOCACHE…

              I never checked the registry for non-core references, but if the .MSIs  in the MSOCACHE are indeed the cause of the forced update offerings for programs I didn’t buy/need, I may try to rename that folder to see if it makes a difference.  As far as I know, it can be removed as long as you have the install CD handy in case of need.

              …if you’re still working with old HD spinners, take a look at GRC’s Spinrite Disk Recovery, Repair & Maintenance softwar…

              I used Spinrite for years back then when HDs were rated in MB rather than GB.  Today I have the impression that Spinrite takes too long to test very large GB drives and that the drives have to work too hard in the process.  But, that’s a subject for a different thread.  I’m a fan of GRC’s utilities though…

              2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #202537 Reply

            CBA
            AskWoody Plus

            …maybe you can skip installing updates for programs you will never install nor have access to unless you purchase an upgrade key and perform the in-place upgrade though my personal preference would be to install them.

            As an addendum: noted!

            1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #202283 Reply

      Paul T
      AskWoody MVP

      Are you sure it’s a PATA disk – that’s nearly 20 years old?
      What is the PC?

      cheers, Paul

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #202291 Reply

        anonymous

        Are you sure it’s a PATA disk – that’s nearly 20 years old?
        What is the PC?

        Yes!  It’s a legacy Thinkpad T43.  I have a 120GB Hitachi PATA drive installed.  Upgraded from the original 40GB HD (if I recall correctly).  My first IBM PC had a 30MB HD and, at the time, I thought I’ll never fill that one up…

         

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    • #202527 Reply

      Paul T
      AskWoody MVP

      As it’s a laptop you can’t install a new HDD controller so all you can do is backup regularly.

      cheers, Paul

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #202528 Reply

        CBA
        AskWoody Plus

        As it’s a laptop you can’t install a new HDD controller so all you can do is backup regularly.

        Which I do to an external USB drive, which in turn is backed up to another external USB drive set up for RAID.  If I can find a reasonably priced WD Blue 250GB or even 320GB PATA drive I may get one .. as the T43, although old, has all the ports I need/use (parallel included) plus a good IBM keyboard!

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    • #202618 Reply

      walker
      AskWoody Lounger

      @cba:  I am looking for my reference I had to UNINSTALL updates, in particular KB2952664, and I cannot locate it.   Any and all advice will be appreciated.  I try to keep references such as this so I can utilize it when necessary and (as usual) I cannot locate the information.   Thank you to anyone who can provide this information for me!!

      • #202683 Reply

        CBA
        AskWoody Plus

        @cba:  I am looking for my reference I had to UNINSTALL updates, in particular KB2952664, and I cannot locate it.   Any and all advice will be appreciated…

        I think you are posting in the wrong place.

        KB2952664 is a telemetry “snooping” update for W7 I personally wouldn’t install.  Suggest you try post here: https://www.askwoody.com/2018/july-2018-security-patches-are-out/

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #204813 Reply

          walker
          AskWoody Lounger

          @cba: I was referring to UNINSTALLING,  not installing, and I have been noting the references I’ve seen to the KB2952664.  It has been “ages” I’m, sure since the KB2952664  was first installed, and I have noted several references which reflect the possibility of deleting any and all of the KB2952664 installations.  I intend to pursue that avenue of approach.   Thank you for your reply.

          • #204928 Reply

            CBA
            AskWoody Plus

            I have noted several references which reflect the possibility of deleting any and all of the KB2952664 installations.

            If you follow the link provided by Elly you should be okay.  Just go to “Installed Updates”, find KB2952664 and click on Uninstall.

            As I stated previously, your topic (albeit important) is totally off-topic for this thread, which concerns if and how to deal with “non-core” updates pushed out by WU for Office H&S 2010.

            For any casual reader, the resolution I (personally) have found to the thread subject is here: https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/office-home-student-non-core-updates/#post-203827

            Mileage may wary and other H&S users may chose a different path.  This one works for me!

            1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #205030 Reply

              walker
              AskWoody Lounger

              @cba:  Thank you for your reply and for the link you provided for the best topic  for this information on the KB2952664.  It is sincerely appreciated, and will be utilized to pursue the deletion of this miserable update which has caused so many problems.   Thank you once again for the help.    🙂

      • #202706 Reply

        Elly
        AskWoody MVP

        @Walker- Is this the link you are looking for? Turning off the worst of Windows 7 and 8.1 Snooping

        Win 7 Home, 64 bit, Group B

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #204811 Reply

          walker
          AskWoody Lounger

          @elly:  Thank you for the reference you provided.    I haven’t been able to get to this website for almost a week now, so the messages are a mess.  I see one other that I should reply to as well, and I appreciate the information you sent.    The information I receive can be studied and utilized “if and when” I have the opportunity.    Thank you once again!   🙂

          1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #203481 Reply

      CBA
      AskWoody Plus

      As the OP, let me try to clean up some loose ends!  Removing or renaming MSOCache won’t, I’m sure, stop WU from pushing out all those non-core H&S updates I don’t want.  Here is why:

      In the Registry at this key location there are references to the complete Office 2010 H&S Suite (including the “non-core” components):  HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Uninstall\Office14.SingleImage

      For example, under PackageRefs:

      AccessMUI.en-us
      ExcelMUI.en-us
      OfficeMUISet.en-us
      SingleImageWW
      OfficeMUI.en-us
      WordMUI.en-us
      Proofing.en-us
      Proof.en-us
      Proof.es-es
      OutlookMUI.en-us
      OneNoteMUI.en-us
      PublisherMUI.en-us
      AccessMUISet.en-us
      Proof.fr-fr
      PowerPointMUI.en-us

      Another reference in the Registry leads to here: C:Program FilesCommon Filesmicrosoft sharedOFFICE14Office Setup Controller.  Look at the JPG attached to see what’s in that folder.  Speaks for itself.

      If I made a mistake during the original installation, some 4-5 years ago, it seems I have to live with it or uninstall/reinstall Office 2010 using custom install (which I think I did, actually).

      Here is a support article from MS on Office 2010: https://support.office.com/en-us/article/install-office-2010-1b8f3c9b-bdd2-4a4f-8c88-aa756546529d

      Important: You can’t remove Office programs individually after the suite has been installed. You must uninstall Office completely, and then reinstall it using a custom installation following the steps outlined above.

      So, I suppose this is the end of this (my) story.  Live with it and move on…

      Attachments:
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    • #203516 Reply

      CBA
      AskWoody Plus

      My above summary does of course not answer the queries raised in my 1st post #201971.  So, if that continues to be a bother I have to experiment (with a current backup at hand) or try to find a larger PATA HD to accommodate all updates (including non-core).  We’ll see…

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #203827 Reply

        CBA
        AskWoody Plus

        So, if that continues to be a bother I have to experiment (with a current backup at hand)…

        Which I decided to do with an amazing-surprising result!  I uninstalled all normal and security updates for Access, Outlook and Publisher.  And OneNote (part of H&S but not used by me).

        It took some time as every update was replaced by an older update (multiple times) until they were all gone.  Everything went smoothly and I didn’t have to reboot once.

        Upshot: I saved more than 500 MB on my C: drive.  Not bad for an amateur!

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