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  • Once again that … Microsoft

    Home Forums Outside the box Rants Once again that … Microsoft

    • This topic has 58 replies, 18 voices, and was last updated 7 months ago.
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      • #2064852 Reply
      • #2064948 Reply
        Kathy Stevens
        AskWoody Plus

        Sounds as if it is time for you to seriously consider moving  on to an Apple machine vs. an new Windows PC.

        • #2070745 Reply
          BB
          AskWoody Plus

          Am seriously considering that.  Very appropriate suggestion.  Thanks

        • #2070813 Reply
          jabeattyauditor
          AskWoody Lounger

          BB is currently using Microsoft Office in his Windows environment; if he moves to a Mac, what non-Microsoft yet Office-like product do you recommend?

      • #2065005 Reply
        Cybertooth
        AskWoody Plus

        Fortunately, we still have choices, including at least one that offers a high degree of compatibility with MS Office documents: SoftMaker Office.

        I downloaded my copies of SMO when I purchased them, but the last time I looked, it was still possible to buy the program suite on disc. And you don’t need to be “signed in” to anything in order to install it or use it.

         

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        BB
        • #2065075 Reply
          OscarCP
          AskWoody Plus

          LibreOffice?

          https://www.libreoffice.org/

          Some people here swear by it. And it is for free!

          I tried it once and seemed to be OK as a no-cost Office replacement.

           

          Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group W (ex B) & macOS + Linux (Mint)

          3 users thanked author for this post.
          • #2065265 Reply
            Cybertooth
            AskWoody Plus

            LibreOffice is a possibility, depending on BB’s requirements.

            We occasionally receive manuscripts written in LibreOffice and they’ve been a nightmare. In our experience, the worst issue to deal with is soft returns that for some reason get turned into hard returns. If during editing you rewrite a sentence (say, deleting or adding words), you end up with short lines in the middle of a paragraph, unpredictably. Someone has to tediously go through the whole file deleting most of the hard returns–you can’t even do a global search-and-replace because then the entire manuscript turns into one single enormous paragraph.

            SoftMaker Office, on the other hand, offers pretty good compatibility, the only issues cropping up in files featuring unusually complex formatting.

            There may be other office suites out there that also have a high degree of MS Office compatibility, but I don’t know what they might be.

            With any luck, this drawback of LibreOffice relative to MS Office has been improved since the last time we saw a document done in the former.

             

            1 user thanked author for this post.
            BB
            • #2068922 Reply
              Ascaris
              AskWoody_MVP

              We occasionally receive manuscripts written in LibreOffice and they’ve been a nightmare. In our experience, the worst issue to deal with is soft returns that for some reason get turned into hard returns. If during editing you rewrite a sentence (say, deleting or adding words), you end up with short lines in the middle of a paragraph, unpredictably. Someone has to tediously go through the whole file deleting most of the hard returns–you can’t even do a global search-and-replace because then the entire manuscript turns into one single enormous paragraph.

              What version of LibreOffice are they using?  I would hope this kind of thing would be a priority for fixing, and maybe it has been fixed, and the individuals in question are simply using older versions of the software.

              I have LibreOffice installed on my PC, but I have to admit that I haven’t given its word processing bit a good workout, as it has been quite a while since I have had to use a word processor to write anything.  Back when I did use a word processor a lot, the idea was to print the document and make a final hardcopy– no one ever saw the save files but me.  The save file was merely an intermediate step on the way to the final product!

              The idea of using the save file from a given word processor as the final product would have seemed absurd, and to have the world decide on a closed, ever-changing, poorly-documented format as the standard would have been even more absurd.

              Group "L" (Fedora 32 Linux w/ KDE Plasma).

              • #2069571 Reply
                Cybertooth
                AskWoody Plus

                Hi @ascaris,

                We’ve worked with that author twice and the most recent time was a couple of years ago. Unfortunately, I don’t know what version of LibreOffice he was using.

                But I do have LibreOffice on my Kubuntu Linux machine, so maybe I’ll run a test and see how things go.

                Now, I have a question for you. You wrote that

                The idea of using the save file from a given word processor as the final product would have seemed absurd, and to have the world decide on a closed, ever-changing, poorly-documented format as the standard would have been even more absurd.

                I’m not sure what you mean in the paragraph above. Would you elaborate a little on “using the save file from a given word processor as the final product”, and especially on “a closed, ever-changing, poorly-documented format as the standard”? Thanks!

                 

              • #2170025 Reply
                Ascaris
                AskWoody_MVP

                Would you elaborate a little on “using the save file from a given word processor as the final product”, and especially on “a closed, ever-changing, poorly-documented format as the standard”? Thanks!

                Sorry it took me so long to reply… I didn’t see this message until just now.

                Back when I used word processors fairly often, the goal was to create a paper document.  That was the thing people were going to see.  The writer of the document would be the only one who would ever have access to the save file.  The format used by that save file didn’t matter… it was the hardcopy that mattered.  How that hardcopy came to be was of no one’s concern other than its writer.  Word processors were meant to produce paper documents; anything else was just a means to an end.

                If this was still the way people used word processors, it wouldn’t matter whether LibreOffice could correctly render Microsoft Office documents.  If you used LibreOffice, it was good if it could render LibreOffice documents, as that was all it needed to do.  If you used a given program to create a file, you’d use that same program to edit, view, or print the file, and that was its only purpose.

                Somewhere along the line, the save file started to be the important bit rather than the hardcopy.  That’s never what word processor save files were meant to be.  There are other document formats if the desire is to electronically send documents… but just about any format would be better than the MS Word format, which is a completely proprietary format that MS changes whenever it feels like it, and whose specifications (like so much else in Microsoft-land) are not fully documented, but have to be discovered through reverse engineering if they’re to be deciphered by someone like the LibreOffice developers.  If the MS Word format were publicly documented, LibreOffice would have no trouble rendering it correctly, but MS doesn’t want its captive audience escaping to other, less user hostile products, so that doesn’t happen.  So much of the interoperability that does exist with Microsoft only exists at all because of reverse engineering (a few examples being Linux’s ability to communicate with Windows networks with Samba and to run Windows programs using WINE, and to make those Windows programs run well graphically using DirectX.

                All of those had to be reverse-engineered, as MS deliberately keeps the details secret to prevent interoperability and flexibility.  They want you locked in to Microsoft… once you’ve got a bunch of stuff that requires Microsoft, they’ve got you, and they can do pretty much whatever they want.  That’s been Microsoft’s way from the start… and that means that people voluntarily exchanging Word save files (back before the save file was the goal!) voluntarily shackled themselves to Microsoft when it would have taken almost zero additional effort to be free.

                There are open formats that don’t leave you beholden to the likes of Microsoft, that are more suited to the task of sending preformatted documents electronically, and I’d even bet that MS Office can read and write them without any issue, so it wouldn’t mean those Office users would have to change software.  It would have taken no more extra work than using the format dropdown and saving in some other format.  It’s too late now; MS Office save files are the standard, and everyone worries about having to use this proprietary, MS-controlled format, which means they’re locked in to Office as long as MS can keep hiding the ball to prevent competitors’ products from being truly interoperable.

                Group "L" (Fedora 32 Linux w/ KDE Plasma).

                1 user thanked author for this post.
              • #2170066 Reply
                JohnW
                AskWoody Plus

                Here’s a 2015 Microsoft article listing the differences in formats:

                Differences between the OpenDocument Text (.odt) format (LibreOffice native format) and the Word (.docx) format

                https://support.office.com/en-us/article/differences-between-the-opendocument-text-odt-format-and-the-word-docx-format-d9d51a92-56d1-4794-8b68-5efb57aebfdc

                More about the OpenDocument format:

                https://www.fsf.org/campaigns/opendocument/

                1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2065024 Reply
        OscarCP
        AskWoody Plus

        … you have no disagreements from me.

        And moving to a Mac is not necessarily all that bad. I have one of these myself and, as yet, in my score card I have Apple graded significantly lower in the ‘evil’ column than MS. You might also like to consider Linux.

        Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group W (ex B) & macOS + Linux (Mint)

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        BB
      • #2065210 Reply
        BrianB
        AskWoody Lounger

        I bought Office 2010 on ebay with a download that can be used to install NO account needed.

        • #2065311 Reply
          OscarCP
          AskWoody Plus

          I think BB is looking for an upgrade to Office 2010. For example, to Office 2019. And you are probably a lucky one. Personally, I would use a very long pair of tongs, a thick apron, security glasses and heavy rubber gloves to handle software that an unvetted source offers through e-Bay, let alone install it on my PC.

          Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group W (ex B) & macOS + Linux (Mint)

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #2070786 Reply
            BB
            AskWoody Plus

            Hi

            MS is stopping support for MS 2010 this year, thus the reason I was looking to upgrade. I guess I have just been dumb and happy with my Win 7/Office 2010 setup for many years. And now recently I have been looking and researching upgrading to Win 10, etc., I am appalled at the privacy violations through out.  Equally surprised by acceptance of this by so many.

            1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2065763 Reply
        Kathy Stevens
        AskWoody Plus

        While I use MS Office Home and Business 2016 I also have Corel WordPerfect Office X9 on my computer.

        I have been using WordPerfect since the 1980’s and find that it is excellent. Its document files are fully compatible with MS Office. In fact, WordPerfect is used by large law firms because of some of its advanced editing and formatting features. It also has great spelling and grammar checkers.

        The only reason I continue to use the MS Office suite is that it is comparable with Dragon Naturally Speaking (dictation software) while WordPerfect is not. However, I frequently open MSWord documents in WordPerfect for final review and editing before publication.

        In addition, the WordPerfect suite does not have a component similar to Outlook

        The WordPerfect Office package includes:

        • WordPerfect – a word processor,
        • Quattro Pro – an excellent spreadsheet program,
        • Presentations – a slideshow creator,
        • An eBook Publisher,
        • Paradox – a database management system (in some packages),
        • Corel ScreenCap,
        • Roxio Secure Burn, and
        • AfterShot – a photo-editing and management application

        The package also includes:

        • 900+ TrueType fonts,
        • 10,000+ clipart images,
        • 300+ templates,
        • 175+ digital photos,
        • Training videos,
        • The Pocket Oxford English Dictionary,
        • WordPerfect Address Book,
        • Presentations Graphics – bitmap editor and drawing application, and
        • WordPerfect XML Project Designer

        WordPerfect Office is not a lightweight alternative to MS Office. It is a a proven and powerful alternative to its Microsoft counterpart and has a strong track record of performance gained over the decades.

        5 users thanked author for this post.
        • #2065932 Reply
          Kirsty
          Da Boss

          There are a couple of small things I like to do that WordPerfect (and QuattroPro) doesn’t, but I tend to only use MS Office now when I will be needing those – otherwise, it’s my Corel suite by preference. I find it is much easier to control formatting in WordPerfect.

          As an example, in Excel, using Ctrl+D gives you a copy of the above cell, a similar shortcut is not available in QuattroPro.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #2067939 Reply
            Fred
            AskWoody Plus

            quite right. as far as I can remember from the early days (when all was right, haha) WordPerfect was thé editting program

            ~ ~ ~
          • #2068733 Reply
            OscarCP
            AskWoody Plus

            Back in 2011 I bought some software for watching DVDs on Windows 7 from Corel. I had been using the previous version with XP and liked it very much. To my considerable disappointment, it was not a good upgrade. In fact, it was pretty awful. I had it on a free-trial, so I did not buy it when the free-trial period run out. Looking around the Web on the subject of Corel and the quality of its wares, the reports were pretty consistent in that the Corel of 2011 was no longer the Corel of old. It pretty much had gone to the dogs: such was the consensus then, as far as I was able to empirically assess it.

            So I read, with some considerable surprise, the reports, from usually well-informed and sensible people, that they are using WordPerfect even as I write this (with some poetic license). Has Corel come back from its dark moment? Or is, perhaps, WordPerfect an exception and the only thing Corel now has that is worth getting and keeping? I hunger for answers! Please, don’t leave me like this, with this terrible uncertainty! I have to know!

            Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group W (ex B) & macOS + Linux (Mint)

        • #2070810 Reply
          BB
          AskWoody Plus

          HI

          Thanks, that was a very good reply and description of WordPerfect. I did use it many years ago at work and then they went to Office and so I did too. No doubt, time to look again at WordPerfect in a serious way.

        • #2072347 Reply
          Kirsty
          Da Boss

          The only reason I continue to use the MS Office suite is that it is comparable with Dragon Naturally Speaking (dictation software) while WordPerfect is not.

          Dragon does have the ability to work with WordPerfect (depending on your versions):
          Products that work with Corel WordPerfect Office
          Which Versions of WordPerfect Does Dragon Work With?

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #2077563 Reply
            Kathy Stevens
            AskWoody Plus

            Yes, some versions of WordPerfect and Dragon NaturallySpeaking play well together. Unfortunately, I recently upgraded my WordPerfect Office from X8-Home & Student to X9-Professional and X9 is not compatible with Dragon.

            I upgraded to WordPerfect X9 Professional – during a Corel promotion at a substantial discount – to gain access to the Paradox database management system and at the same time I upgraded the dictionary from The Pocket Oxford English Dictionary to the full Oxford Dictionary.

            It was only after I completed the installation of X9 that I found out that it is not compatible with Dragon. And, for now, I am not inclined to go back to WordPerfect Office X8 right now.

            1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #2076300 Reply
          Bill C.
          AskWoody Plus

          To me, Wordperfect Office was like the Betamax tape format. The superior format does not always win in the marketplace. MS Office had the support of the PC makers with a pre-installed installer or starter version, plus deals with employers for DEEP discounts for employees in business or Pro Office Suites.

          I loved WP, but work has MS Office. Even after 25 years the “reveal codes” feature of WP allowed for much easier formatting. You never had the “ghost formatting” issue where a tiny change in MS Word would have effects in the whole document, and sometimes would not be evident immediately. I have had to copy the entire document to Notepad or pother text editor to actually start from a truly clean sheet to fix a ‘ghost format’ issue.

          I am now testing LibreOffice in depth to see if it is a true replacement. I know it will be fine for me, but I am going to throw some spreadsheets and Powerpoints to see how they fare when used on an MSOffice machine.

          On accounts, my main issue is not specifically privacy, but I prefer to limit my exposure to the inevitable hack, where the corporation having custody of my info, gets off with a ‘we are so sorry” and yet the corporation of the mismanagers face no real penalties for their negligence.

          • #2076528 Reply
            OscarCP
            AskWoody Plus

            If you liked working with the underlying code governing the display of a text document (perhaps with tables and figures, some even in color) I wonder if you ever tried working with LaTex:

            https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/LaTeX

            https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/LaTeX/Importing_Graphics

            Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group W (ex B) & macOS + Linux (Mint)

          • #2077734 Reply
            Kathy Stevens
            AskWoody Plus

            Give some thought to WordPerfect Office X9-Home and Student that includes the: WordPerfect word processor, Quattro Pro spreadsheet program, and Presentations slideshow creator for $89.99.

            You can download a trial version to tryout before making a decision.

      • #2066598 Reply
        Ascaris
        AskWoody_MVP

        It’s good to be able to vent your frustration about how Microsoft now sees fit to behave, and I’ve certainly done this a lot.  It’s also understandable that people would keep airing their grievances in the forlorn hope that MS will someday “get it,” which I’ve also done a lot, but ultimately, it comes down to either tolerating Microsoft doing whatever they want or getting off of the pain train, even if it’s difficult, as it often will be.  MS has made it really clear that all of our objections mean nothing, and that they will just keep doing whatever it is they feel like doing, often serving their own needs instead of those of the customer in software that the customer has to pay for.  It’s not getting any better… if anything, it’s only likely to get worse.

         

        Group "L" (Fedora 32 Linux w/ KDE Plasma).

        4 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2067766 Reply
        woody
        Da Boss

        I’ve moved on and, for several years, almost exclusively use Google apps and GSuite. Works like a champ.

        Of course, I need a Google account in order to use it, and that brings up an entirely different can of worms.

      • #2068006 Reply
        joep517
        AskWoody MVP

        A Microsoft account is required for the license agreement, download, and activation. But it is not required to use the software. You can logout of the account. Periodically, you may be required to sign-in to verify your eligibility. This account does not have to be used with Windows 10. Yiu may use a local account or a different Microsoft account for Windows 10.

        --Joe

        • #2068426 Reply
          OscarCP
          AskWoody Plus

          BB’s complaint was not about Windows 10, but Office. Office, until not so long ago, was bought in the usual way: you paid x dollars, euros, or whatever your currency might be, and got a file to download and a disk (if you so preferred and did not mind paying extra for it), but there was no need to open accounts and provide whatever personal information is required to give MS, in this case, in order to do that. It used to be like waking into a shop, picking up an item off a shelf, then taking it to the counter, paying for it, getting a receipt and walking out of the shop taking the purchased item with you. At most the shopkeepers would get your credit card number that, by law, they were not supposed to use for any purpose beyond securing payment — assuming you did not pay with cash. Some shops might ask for your telephone number or your email address, but you have no obligation to give that information and it is OK to refuse to do so (I should know: I always refuse to give that information and never have had problems completing a purchase). The principle, in law, is simple: anything on display on a shop is up for sale and cannot be refused to a customer able and willing to pay. Obnoxious people might be shown the door, instead, but that is not what BB’s complaint was about.

          When it comes to online sales, the applicability of bricks-and-mortar principles is, right now, not clear (thank governments and lawyers for that), so it might be perfectly legal to sell things and require the opening of an account to get them, but this is not an indisputably good way of doing things, BB does not have to like it and, as a free individual, he is allowed to complain accordingly — especially here, in “Rants”. And he has.

           

          Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group W (ex B) & macOS + Linux (Mint)

          2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #2068556 Reply
            OscarCP
            AskWoody Plus

            Oh, and I almost forgot: according to BB, one can no longer get the installation disk of Office. If so, then this is not a very nice way to do business, no matter how legal it might now be. And Office is not a small purchase, like a candy bar. So one may feel entitled to expect a little more attention to one’s desires — and interests — from the minders of a store that sells Office, whether it operates on line or not.

            Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group W (ex B) & macOS + Linux (Mint)

            2 users thanked author for this post.
            • #2069392 Reply
              jabeattyauditor
              AskWoody Lounger

              The “no disc with purchase” deal is because the majority of new systems sold don’t have optical disc drives. Why bundle a physical media (and make delivery a physical thing) when people have ways to get the product that are more useful to them?

              Who DOES ship a CD or DVD these days?

              • #2069626 Reply
                OscarCP
                AskWoody Plus

                Who ships CD or DVD these days? Those companies that are gracious enough to allow us to pay extra for sending them, that’s who. For example, some that make and sell things such as antivirus; also Linux distros. Who uses optical drives? Those that must, now and then, exchange large datasets and have no better way of doing it without having to jump through all sorts of hoops. Like yours truly. Those who need to burn ISO images, installation files and other necessary files to DVD and read them back, when necessary (as that is also discussed here). Those, again like Yours truly, that have a large collection of movies and TV shows on DVD and like to take a watch, now and then, at some of the titles in it, just for fun. And, although laptops are so “cool” these days that don’t come with them anymore, there is this fantastic invention known as the external optical drive…

                Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group W (ex B) & macOS + Linux (Mint)

                1 user thanked author for this post.
              • #2069761 Reply
                jabeattyauditor
                AskWoody Lounger

                And, although laptops are so “cool” these days that don’t come with them anymore, there is this fantastic invention known as the external optical drive…

                I have a few of them myself… but the market has turned elsewhere. Software delivery via the Internet is the norm, and consumption of entertainment has followed suit.

              • #2070091 Reply
                OscarCP
                AskWoody Plus

                I guess the market you speak of is not my market. Could it possibly be that there are more things in Heaven and Earth than are dreamt of in your marketing philosophy?

                Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group W (ex B) & macOS + Linux (Mint)

              • #2070174 Reply
                jabeattyauditor
                AskWoody Lounger

                It’s not my “marketing philosopy” – it’s the world as it is today.

                Why is Amazon investing billions of Dollars to make same-day delivery the norm for Prime?

                People don’t want to leave their homes for anything, but they don’t want to even wait hours for delivery.

                In the words of Veruca Salt, they want it “now!”

                Software is no exception.

              • #2070877 Reply
                OscarCP
                AskWoody Plus

                OK: then “those people” are not “my people” and your “world today” is not my “world today”. Nor is the world of many actual people I happen to know and work with. The tendency to dismiss people’s interests and needs with broad and vague arguments reflect an unfortunate way of thinking increasingly common these days, particularly when it comes to “technology”, a term only recently, in historical terms, appropriated by the Silicon Valley crowd for their on glorification (last time I checked, bridge and ship building are also technologies. As is fabric and clothes-making — I much rather would go clothed than naked and with a cell phone hanging from a cord around my neck, for lack of pockets.)

                Also: the billions invested by Amazon are Amazon’s look out, not mine.

                Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group W (ex B) & macOS + Linux (Mint)

              • #2069806 Reply
                Kathy Stevens
                AskWoody Plus

                My work is dependent on using a desktop (Intel Core i7-8700 processor, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 for graphics, 16 GB DDR4-2666 SDRAM, 2TB ATA M.2 SSD, 2 TB 7200 rpm SATA, and a DVD-Writer).

                I have several thousand dollars of software on the system and decades of data.

                My preference is to take delivery of software on DVD’s. If a boxed version is not available I download and then burn a DVD.

                Once the program is installed, I store the disks knowing that if things goes bump in the night I have media available to permit a program repair or a fresh installation. I also store various versions of Windows, System recovery media, and backup recovery programs.

                Yes, I also back up my system to its second drive at the end of each day and to an external drive weekly.

                I can not afford to lose a PC for more than a day.

                • This reply was modified 8 months, 2 weeks ago by Kathy Stevens.
              • #2070869 Reply
                BB
                AskWoody Plus

                HI

                Quite a few “still” ships disks. I just ordered Turbo Tax, Paragon, Spot Mau and the list goes on. I have been researching buying a new computer “because of Win 7, etc”  looking mostly at HP ( which I may not pull the trigger, you know, my severe dislike for Communist, slave labor, dictators, etc…..) hope I did not break any rules…. But to the point, all have DVD or optical drives, whichever you prefer, except their gaming laptops. And they offer external. So yes, getting an optical drive is quite common.

                2 users thanked author for this post.
              • #2070958 Reply
                OscarCP
                AskWoody Plus

                There is a rule that says that Woody (and the MVPs, by natural extension)  can delete, in part or whole, any comment for any reason. This is necessary as a blanket statement to cover all objectionable cases not considered in the other rules, but should be used cogently. I might not share your strong opinions on political economy and its application to governing, but I can’t see any compelling reason for deleting them, this being a section dedicated to ranting about such subjects. Everything has been quite thoughtful and informative, so far, in this thread you have started and we should be grateful to you for it and not wipe out selectively, instead, some things you have written that (as I see them) should be quite tolerable to grown ups (eight-year olds should not be reading comments in the “Rants” section anyway, parents: do you hear me?).

                Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group W (ex B) & macOS + Linux (Mint)

                2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2068838 Reply
        RetiredGeek
        AskWoody MVP

        BB,

        A quick Amazon search turned up this.

        MSOffice
        Granted no DVD/CD but also No MS Account, at least so they claim!

        HTH 😎

        May the Forces of good computing be with you!

        RG

        PowerShell & VBA Rule!
        Computer Specs

        Attachments:
        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #2069025 Reply
          anonymous
          Guest

          Nice find. However, according to a verified purchaser who left a brief review, the product license doesn’t work in the U.S.  I clicked on the star rating to see the reviews, and that’s where I found the review stating the license doesn’t work in the U.S.  🙁

          From the sound of the original post, I believe that @BB is in the U.S.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          BB
        • #2069102 Reply
          OscarCP
          AskWoody Plus

          Thank you. Facts are always good to know, RetiredGeek (although, while still writing this, anonymous has popped up (above) with new information implying that these facts might not be of universal validity). Even so, a big question now would be, I think, whether one can download Office 2019 (where so offered) and burn the file to a DVD before installing it, creating a proper installation disk, always good to have, or one cannot do that and has no other way to reinstall Office in the same PC, if necessary, other than buying it again from that … MS.

          Also, I wonder why there is, according to the ad, no need to open an “Office 365” account, when the software in question is plain old Office 2019, not its mostly “Cloud” based version. Have unfounded rumors been circulating that one has to open a 365 account to buy Office 2019? And that one must subscribe to it, because there is no longer a way to buy it? Or has the Amazon employee who wrote this ad got those rumors wrong? Probably that would be the same person who wrote “100% audited for an audit by Microsoft”, which looks like something that, perhaps, might have been written better, so I could understand what it means.

          Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group W (ex B) & macOS + Linux (Mint)

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          BB
      • #2069574 Reply
        Kathy Stevens
        AskWoody Plus

        One more reason to use WordPerfect is its Reveal Code feature that allows the user see and edit formatting codes within a document.  I am also a frequent user of its Make It Fit feature that permits the user to automatically adjust a document or block of text to fit within a specified number of pages. Law firms are partial to WordPerfect because of its ability to create tables of authority as well as redacting text.

        I use WordPerfect X9 Professional that is available on the Corel site for $359.99 but it is far more than most users require.

        WordPerfect X9 Home & Student, the product that will meet most people’s needs, includes: the WordPerfect word processor, Quattro Pro the spreadsheet program, and Presentations the slideshow creator. The Home and Student edition is available for $89.99 and is available in either boxed or download versions.

        And the Standard Edition is available as a download trial. Try it – you may like it.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #2070911 Reply
          BB
          AskWoody Plus

          Thanks again

          I have unfortunately become partial to Outlook over the last number of years. Does WP have something similar. Funny how one gets used to something, I used to really like Outlook Express..

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #2071947 Reply
            Kathy Stevens
            AskWoody Plus

            An interesting question, if not Microsoft Outlook how do manage your email?

            Quite frankly, I have used outlook for year. That said, I receive email via ATT, Xfinity, and Runbox.

            For my ATT and Xfinity addresses I have been using Outlook.

            For Runbox, for security and privacy reasons, I log into their server to recover my email.

            However, the question piqued my interest and I did a quick internet search and found Thunderbird.

            Apparently, Thunderbird is Mozilla’s mail client and is a frequently used as an Outlook alternative. Thunderbird is an open source solution and is available free of charge.

            I am a committed user of Mozilla’s Firefox browser and may adopt Thunderbird for my “non-secure” email.

            Looks as if I may be experimenting later this evening.

            Thanks for the question.

            1 user thanked author for this post.
            BB
      • #2071027 Reply
        b
        AskWoody Plus

        I’m curious as to why you don’t want a Microsoft account (which has many advantages).

        What do you regard as the disadvantages of having a Microsoft account?

        • #2071140 Reply
          anonymous
          Guest

          Privacy. Or the lack there of.

        • #2071855 Reply
          BB
          AskWoody Plus

          Hi b

          Fair question. I guess from the beginning I would have to blame Woody. 🙂  I began on this path because of Win 7, no support etc…  So I started with Woody’s book Window 10 all in one, I think it is the first edition. Well I read it cover to cover with many post it flags on pages and many, many, many sentences highlighted in yellow. And I and now rereading it! Woody really did a good job. But Woody pointed out to his credit how Win 10 can spy on you and even key log all your keystrokes. He also pointed out how to limit this in settings. I am using now a win10 laptop I borrowed from my sister. Yet, again to his credit, he pointed out although you can block a lot, there is a limit. So I have continued researching, asking questions, searching Google and yes Win 10 is very bad for privacy. I guess in a nut shell that would answer your question. But may I add, I really blame our Congress, they do not protect the American people at all. NEITHER PARTY! It is sad to say that in this area, the EU does a much better job of protecting their people than Congress by a long shot. And when it comes to privacy, I do believe its getting worse, ie.. MS, Facebook, Google, etc.. And you know, I know that we do not have to use MS, and I admit it is very tough not to, but that doesn’t mean that our elected leaders should let them do whatever they want because they are corrupt and these companies donate huge sums of money to them. Sorry, they have no integrity or honor in this area, and perhaps other areas. 🙂 Again, sorry, had to add my two cents.

          3 users thanked author for this post.
          • #2072346 Reply
            OscarCP
            AskWoody Plus

            “…But may I add, I really blame our Congress, they do not protect the American people at all. NEITHER PARTY! It is sad to say that in this area, the EU does a much better job of protecting their people than Congress by a long shot.”:

            And I say: Amen to that! Except that, sometimes, after some slightly more enlightened senator or representative struggles mightily to get one of these there, some protections are enacted, o at last sent to the president for signing them into law. The anti robocall law now awaiting the presidential signature to be put into effect being one of the few recent examples worth mentioning I can think of. Maybe others here might add to the list? I fully expect it to be a short one, taking no space at all in the servers of this Website.

            Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group W (ex B) & macOS + Linux (Mint)

        • #2072470 Reply
          Ascaris
          AskWoody_MVP

          I’m curious as to why you don’t want a Microsoft account (which has many advantages). What do you regard as the disadvantages of having a Microsoft account?

          The disadvantage, if you do not wish to have one, is that you do not wish to have one and you’re forced to anyway.

          It’s the same situation we had when people asked Microsoft for a master OFF switch for all Win 10 telemetry, and what they got instead was a list of reasons about why they should not mind that the telemetry is in there… you know, the usual stuff.  “It’s only to improve Windows security and stability,” “We’re not collecting your personal data,” stuff like that.

          That would have been fine if people had asked for excuses, but they hadn’t.  They asked for an OFF switch.  The reason(s) why they want an OFF switch is none of Microsoft’s concern— the point is,  they want it, and since the sole purpose of an operating system is to serve the owner of the hardware in question in a manner chosen by himself, that’s all the reason that is necessary.

          That’s the whole problem with Microsoft and its PC-related products right now.  They’ve forgotten their role.  Their job is to serve PC owners, whether they be individuals, small businesses, big corporations, schools, governments, or anyone else.  It doesn’t matter if Microsoft can concoct some marketing blurb about any given thing (like having a MS account, or having telemetry, or having forced updates) is actually in the best interest of the users, since Microsoft’s opinion on that matter is utterly and completely irrelevant.  All that matters is the opinion of the hardware owner.

          Microsoft doesn’t need to understand why people might not want to get a Microsoft account.  All they need to know is that they might not want to get a Microsoft account.

          Group "L" (Fedora 32 Linux w/ KDE Plasma).

          9 users thanked author for this post.
          • #2073815 Reply
            BB
            AskWoody Plus

            Well said! And exactly right!

      • #2084121 Reply
        DriftyDonN
        AskWoody Plus

        Hi to all

        I have just learned, I know, almost all of you already knew this, that one can no longer purchase a DVD copy of MS Office. I have been using MS Office 2010 and as I as seriously looking at going to a Win 10 computer I was looking to upgrade my Office. Well dag blasted that [EDITED] Microsoft now FORCES ME TO HAVE A MICROSOFT ACCOUNT JUST TO USE OFFICE. 

        Woody or anyone else, is there something I have wrong here???  DAG BLASTED THIS IS JUST NOT RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Is anyone upset about this as much as I am. Everyone just seems to say, well that is just the way it is. 

        EDITED – this might be the Rants section, but it still need to be appropriate and mind the Rules!

        Open office is FREE and every bit as good as office….

        "Vision without action is a daydream. Action without vision is a nightmare."

        • #2084553 Reply
          access-mdb
          AskWoody MVP

          As is Libre Office, which I believe many think is better as it’s still being developed. But both fall down if you want a real relational database though. As for DVDs, I don’t miss them.

      • #2138196 Reply
        BB
        AskWoody Plus

        Hi to all

        I guess there is no way to install Office 2019 without a Microsoft Account. Someone please tell me I am wrong.  Secondly, is Office 2016 still available and does it require an account. I heard somewhere that only 2019 is “fully” compatible with Windows 10.

         

        Moderator note: This Post edited for content.

        • #2138205 Reply
          BB
          AskWoody Plus

          Hey Guys

          I went to the MS/Office site. Must use a MS account since Office 2013, Microsoft says. I hate Microsoft. One question. If one creates a Microsoft Account to install Office 2019, and one’s PC as a local account, has does that effect everything, anything.  I hope that makes sense. Thanks.

        • #2138229 Reply
          Kirsty
          Da Boss

          If you have the full product activation key, you don’t need to log in to activate/use Office:

          Now, you can start Office and activate it. To activate it, you need a product key. What you got on that little card is not a product key, it is an exchange key, a trick to get you to log with a Microsoft Account to retrieve your product key and associate it to you. You don’t have to log in to Office to get your product key. Go to https://setup.office.com/

          Create a Microsoft Account or use an existing one you have. You will have to enter your exchange key, then you will go through some steps to end up choosing how you want to install your Office. You will have an option to see your product key. If you don’t see it, try selecting something like download to install offline and then you will see an option to show your product key. Save that key. It is your real product key in case you need it for reinstall and you don’t want to go back online.

          Now when you start an Office program and you want to activate it, don’t log in using your Microsoft Account, click that you want to use a product key instead and enter that product key.

          I believe this still works, but it’s worth trying? in the meantime, take a deep, deep breath… 😉

      • #2138232 Reply
        Kathy Stevens
        AskWoody Plus

        Three thoughts:

        1. When you purchase your new Windows machine simply use Laplink’s PCmover Professional to move your existing MS Office software, other apps, and files to the new computer;
        2. We are using Microsoft Office Home and Business 2016 without signing in to an Office Account – I assume that you can disable the user account in Microsoft Office 2019; or
        3. As I recommended earlier, use WordPerfect Office.

        Do not purchase Office 365

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