• One problem with self-driving cars: they aren’t, but drivers believe they are.

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    • This topic has 13 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 2 weeks ago.
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    #2456743

    This article in the Washington Post today seems not to be paywalled, so everyone can read it.

    According to this report: the problem with self-driving cars? Many don’t drive themselves.
    But their drivers are lulled into believing that they do.

    Actual autonomous cars are a long way off, but those loosely described as such these days actually require a human competent driver at the ready to intervene effectively at any time in hazardous situations that may suddenly occur.
    That is a very hard thing to do well, specially without training for it.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/06/26/problem-with-self-driving-cars-many-dont-drive-themselves/

    Excerpt:

    The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration released a report this month on crashes involving vehicles with automated technology. Self-driving cars may not really be the problem — the problem is cars that don’t drive themselves but manage to convince the drivers that they do.

    The report includes data collected over a 10-month period following an order last summer that required automakers to report incidents that included cars with advanced driver-assistance systems. Fully autonomous vehicles such as Google spinoff Waymo or General Motors-controlled Cruise LLC ended up in 130 crashes, most of them occurring when the car was struck from behind, 108 of which resulted in no injuries and only one of which resulted in a serious injury

    Those and other numbers in the article may be misleadingly low, because the number of “fully” and “semi” “autonomous cars” out on the roads is small as well.

    Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

    MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
    Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
    macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

    • This topic was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by OscarCP.
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    • #2456750

      PBS recently aired “Look Who’s Driving” on it’s Nova program.  It was very informative and enlightening.  I watched it on June 22, 2022.  There are five levels of driver assistance with five being the car driving itself.  That level is far from being ready for current use.

      We're getting Sticker Shock everywhere now, not just car dealers.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #2456757

      It’s hardly like the manufacturers are making an effort to educate drivers as to the limits of their systems; Tesla, for example, calls its driver assistance system (the one that turns off just before crashing to make its crash statistics look good) ‘Autopilot’, a name that makes it sound like it drives itself, so it’s no surprise that people are tricked into believing that the car would do so.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #2464974

      Apollo RT6 with Level 4 autonomous driving capability. Steering wheel is an option.

      $36,000

      During its Baidu World 2022 technology conference today, the Chinese technology company unveiled its sixth-generation fully-autonomous vehicle – the Apollo RT6. With a detachable steering wheel, Baidu has created a production-ready EV with Level 4 autonomous driving capability that is expected to join the Apollo Go robotaxi fleet next year…

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0-fKvpW_3E

      • #2465117

        Color me very skeptical and also glad it might, perhaps, who knows, happen somewhere else and as far away as China. No freeways from there to here. So not much of a chance of meeting one of those cars when I’m driving around here. Where traffic is already bad enough as it is, and adding to it cars without drivers does not look like a likely improvement.

        Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

        MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
        Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
        macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

    • #2465218

      Color me very skeptical and also glad it might

      You are underestimating the Chinese.

      Cruise self-driving cars stopped and clogged up San Francisco for hours

      Weeks after Cruise launched its autonomous, driverless taxi rides to the public in San Francisco, numerous vehicles mysteriously piled up and blocked several lanes of incoming traffic downtown…

      At least seven cars were spotted milling around a spot in San Franscico’s Civic Center neighborhood at night. The driverless vehicles had stopped for some reason, preventing nearby traffic from moving. It’s not clear why or how these cars seemingly suffered a technical glitch…

      * shoot the programmers.

      • #2465230

        They went on strike until they got the bumps and scratches on their bodies fixed.     🙂

        We're getting Sticker Shock everywhere now, not just car dealers.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #2465232

          Here is another idea:

          What we need is not having ever more cars, driven or driverless, gas or electric. What we need is:

          (1) Much better public transport, including both urban and long-distance passenger and cargo trains (the latter so as to have less big trucks on the road), as well as  long-distance bus services that include both cities and villages throughout the nation.
          (2) Much better urban planning and zoning.
          (3) Much more determined switch over from internal combustion to electric vehicle engines.

          All this with with a view to make more cities pedestrian, cycling and environment-friendly, as well as to have street traffic of an intensity human drivers can handle better and more safely than at present. And a country in which where one lives is not a serious limitation on how one can go elsewhere and also get around simply by taking a bus, a train or driving there.

          Anything else concerning transportation that is Silicon Valley and car companies and their like-friendly, is just an inconvenient and, to me personally, also very annoying waste of precious time.

          Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

          MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
          Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
          macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

          3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #2465376

      And a country in which where one lives is not a serious limitation on how one can go elsewhere and also get around simply by taking a bus, a train or driving there.

      You must live in a city Oscar. Even here in Westchester getting around requires a car. Now having selfdriving taxis is an idea, at least we would need less cars overall.
      I look forward to selfdriving cars, there are quite a few folk that just should not be put behind a steering wheel.

      But we are not there yet. IMHO much better for us to have the beta testing done in China.

      🍻

      Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.
      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2465460

        Wavy, My point, as you could see if you read what I wrote more carefully,  is that everywhere in this country people should be able to move around, because there should be proper public transport available, short and long distance, everywhere. This is not so because car companies, politicians and city planners have made the mess that our cities and  countryside are today, where everybody needs to own a vehicle and be able to drive it to get anywhere to have many necessary things done.

        And driverless cars are no solution for that basic problem, only for making more money for Silicon Valley “geniuses” and car companies that push this fancy novelty as if it were necessary and inevitable progress. Self-driving cars are not a practical reality: they are an updated version of those useless but showy rocket-like car tail fins and big shiny chrome radiators of the 50’s.

        Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

        MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
        Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
        macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

        • #2465464

          My point was that those in rural areas are more dependent on non pedestrian transport. But I do most assuredly agree (I think) with your main premise for urban and suburban areas.

          🍻

          Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.
      • #2465463

        Don’t live in a city and don’t want to. Does anyone really expect public transportation to be available to rural residents? Impractical! Yes. maybe some buses to take the elderly to medical appointments but not much more. Cost prohibitive.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #2465468

          Is not impractical: those who doubt this, please go live for a while in Western Europe and find out for yourselves.

          Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

          MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
          Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
          macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

        • #2465471

          No where is any real distance from any where there. Europe is built up and no way the same as the US.

          🍻

          Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.
          1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #2465483

          So, shall we raise our taxes another 20% or so to do this? Blah!

    • #2465478

      I have lived there for a number of years and do not agree. But that is the way many people think here. Well, enough already. Time to move on to something else for me.

      Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

      MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
      Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
      macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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