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  • Patch Lady – a new default I’m not fond of

    Posted on Susan Bradley Comment on the AskWoody Lounge

    Home Forums AskWoody blog Patch Lady – a new default I’m not fond of

    This topic contains 37 replies, has 20 voices, and was last updated by  carpintero 4 months, 2 weeks ago.

    • Author
      Posts
    • #1857023 Reply

      Susan Bradley
      AskWoody MVP
    • #1857050 Reply

      Alex5723
      AskWoody Plus

      If you hate that new default in 1903 as much as I do, go into view, group by and select none.

      The ‘None’ setting doesn’t stay and reverts back to ‘by date’.

      • #1857051 Reply

        Susan Bradley
        AskWoody MVP

        Mine is staying?

        Susan Bradley Patch Lady

        • #1857085 Reply

          Alex5723
          AskWoody Plus

          Mine is staying?

          Feedback to the article say it is not staying.

          Liz
          JUNE 4, 2019 @ 9:46 PM

          I do this, but it never stays like that. I come back 20 minutes later and they’re grouped again. It’s a pain because I use my downloads folder all the time.

          Do you know how to permanently set grouping to “none”?

          REPLY
          Venkat
          JUNE 5, 2019 @ 4:29 PM

          After seeing your comment, we checked downloads folder, yes they’ve grouped again, we’ll definitely provide an update here if we find a fix to this. Thanks.

          • #1860689 Reply

            schwabel_ronald
            AskWoody Lounger

            I was also dismayed to find the grouping action on the Downloads folder.  Thanks for pointing out the way to get rid of it.  I tried it and sure enough it wasn’t permanent.  I then tried closing the File Explorer after making the change and it seemed to respect my choice for a while but the groups did come back – maybe after a reboot.

            Way, way, way back in the past there was a trick to save options that had been changed on Windows system dialogs.  If you would hold down the Alt key when closing the dialog it would save the things you had changed.  I just tried that and it did seem to save the none-grouping option when I reopened the Downloads folder, but I can’t say for sure that it will be permanent.

    • #1857102 Reply

      cptomes
      AskWoody Plus

      almost as good as users using the “recycle” as file storage…

      Hey look! Another Feature Update!

      You mean I shouldn't click Check for Updates?

      Why does it keep saying "Something Happened"?

      3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1857443 Reply

        anonymous

        Identical I’d say. My download is in a custom location – cloud – where it is accessed by three computers and forms a ‘library’ of installed programs.  anything that empties that without my say so is REALLY going to hiss me off. However, I am sure the cloud service will prompt something like, ‘do you really want to delete all those’ and has an option to restore. Ability to recover aside, Downloads is a folder that Microsoft should not decide by default contains garbage. That’s an end-user decision.

        • #1857562 Reply

          warrenrumak
          AskWoody Plus

          Identical I’d say. My download is in a custom location – cloud – where it is accessed by three computers and forms a ‘library’ of installed programs.  anything that empties that without my say so is REALLY going to hiss me off. However, I am sure the cloud service will prompt something like, ‘do you really want to delete all those’ and has an option to restore. Ability to recover aside, Downloads is a folder that Microsoft should not decide by default contains garbage. That’s an end-user decision.

          I find this a curious attitude. The name of the folder is “Downloads”, which is a word used to describe the mechanism by which the file arrived on the machine, not a description of the contents of the files themselves.  It is, in effect, a pre-sorting area. Always has been.

          You should be sorting your files by what they are.  That’s why we have directories like “Pictures”, “Videos” and “Documents”.  Windows doesn’t come with a folder called “Software” or “Installers”, so if you want to store such things, make that folder and move such files there.

           

          3 users thanked author for this post.
          • #1857915 Reply

            GreatAndPowerfulTech
            AskWoody Lounger

            The typical user has no idea how to do what you recommend. Some of our customers don’t even know that they have a Downloads folder and that there are important files they need still in it. They open them from the last used location, which is the Downloads folder. Also, they don’t want to change what they’re doing. I move mine to where I want them to be. Many, possibly most, users do not.

            GreatAndPowerfulTech

          • #1858213 Reply

            anonymous

            Why would I need a staging area? If I must keep things that well organized, then I’d just have my program prompt me for where the file goes, rather than waste time having to go put it up later.

            But, honestly, that’s all rather tedious, and I find that downloads don’t usually need that level of organization. It makes far more sense for the files I download most often (EXEs and ZIPs, as you can’t display them in the browser) to simply stay in that one folder. I’ll right-click and save images, which fortunately means Chrome uses a different default folder. And downloading videos usually involves using a different program, so I set a different default folder there.  Sure, there’s the occasional document I’ll move to Documents, but that’s about it.

            I keep files because there’s little reason to delete things these days. Storage is just so cheap. And even online backup is cheap. So I might as well just keep anything I don’t want to explicitly delete. Sure, most of it is stuff I’ll never actually use again, or could go back and get if I really needed, but, when I do actually need an old file, it’s totally worth it.

            But to proactively organize it rather than just use search is overkill. Organizing is the type of tedium we got computers to do for us.

            1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #1858949 Reply

            Chronocidal Guy
            AskWoody Lounger

            As an oddball (and slightly obsessive/compulsive) addendum.. I actually treat my “Downloads” folder as a third-party partner to “My Documents.”  I take it quite literally.. work that I have done, be it graphics, computer models, programs, or whatever else, goes in My Documents.  (Pictures is a complicated topic on its own, however.)

            If I’ve downloaded something from a third party source, it goes in the Downloads folder, and I keep it just as organized as My Docs.  There will be some scattered recent downloads in the root folder, but utilities and drivers that go through multiple version iterations will get their own dedicated folder, so I can keep track of what version I’m currently running, and revert to the previous one if I find something amiss with the most recent.

            I would really hate for that entire organizational structure to get ripped out from under me because Microsoft decides that that folder isn’t supposed to be used the way I’m using it.

            On the flip side of this though, I’ve never trusted the default “clean up” mechanisms in Windows anyway.  When I need to clear space, I do it manually, folder by folder, to make sure I’m only removing what I don’t need, and backing it up if I might need it later.  I’m anything but the typical user these sorts of features are meant to assist, though.

      • #1858214 Reply

        anonymous

        If you mean that’s what Windows has turned it into, sure. But there’s no reason that any sane person would assume that was the case.

        The Recycle Bin (Microsoft’s name for the Trash folder concept) is where files go that you’ve explicitly said “I don’t want you anymore” by deleting them. So it’s expected that you might not be able to get the files back. The folder only exists in case you accidentally deleted something by mistake and need it back. And doing so takes little work on the OS side, so why not?

        But a Downloads folder is where files go that you’ve gotten online. There’s no reason to assume that you would not want to keep them. And nothing about it suggests that its contents are discarded (like a Trash or Recycle Bin) nor that they are supposed to be temporary (like the various TEMP folders). In fact, files that are downloaded temporarily explicitly go to TEMP or Cache folders, rather that Downloads.

        Sure, you can argue whether or not keeping files in the Downloads folder (or a subfolder) is the best way to organize your files, but still there’s no reason anyone would assume they were in danger of deletion.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #1857105 Reply

      Susan Bradley
      AskWoody MVP

      I saw that but so far it’s sticking on mine.  Note that when you open up downloads it acts like it’s “searching” and takes longer to open up.

      Susan Bradley Patch Lady

      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1857106 Reply

        Susan Bradley
        AskWoody MVP

        “After some searching I found that by right-clicking on a group in either the Downloads or the Open dialogue box (say “Yesterday”) the option Group by (None) appears and sets the option.”

        Susan Bradley Patch Lady

        5 users thanked author for this post.
        • #1860726 Reply

          WildBill
          AskWoody Plus

          Thanks for informing us & keeping us up-to-date. Currently on Win8.1, the View ribbon in File Explorer has the Group By option available. Clicking on the down arrow, None is the default for every folder. That is, no default is already selected for Group By. Glad to know if I ever decide to upgrade to Win10 1903 or any version after it how to set the default to None. BTW, my 2 cents on how to use the Downloads folder & Recycle Bin: Recycle Bin is available if one changes their mind on deleting a file(s). Once you Empty the Recycle Bin, the contents are “deleted”. The Downloads folder is for data downloaded from a remote source. Whether a user chooses to move it to an existing folder, create a new folder for selected data, leave it there, or delete it is up to the user.

          Windows 8.1, 64-bit, back in Group A... & leaning toward Windows 10 V1909. As long as it's a Lot Less Buggy!
          Wild Bill Rides Again...

      • #1857902 Reply

        Carl D
        AskWoody Lounger

        Yes, I found this new Downloads folder setting annoying after a clean install of Windows 10 Professional 1903.

        So far the View > Group by > (None) setting is sticking for me after changing it about a week ago.

        And, as Susan has noted, the Downloads folder seems to do some sort of indexing or whatever which takes several seconds when you open it for the first time – only seems to happen the one time when you turn the computer on or reboot it.

    • #1857262 Reply

      b
      AskWoody Plus

      The worst part of this new default is that it hasn’t been documented by Microsoft anywhere.

      Knuckle dragger Cannon fodder Chump Daft glutton Idiot Crazy/Ignorant Toxic drinker Blockhead Unwashed mass Seeker/Sucker "Ancient/Obsolete" (Group ASAP) Win10 v.1909

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #1857268 Reply

      Mr. Natural
      AskWoody Plus

      I haven’t run into this, perhaps because my 1903 install was an update and not a clean install. First thing I always do on a new install is set windows explorer view to details and go over folder options to uncheck things like “hide extensions for known types”. I hate that setting and why does Microsoft continue to use and enable that unsafe setting?….

      Anyway…. I’ve never had to mess with the “group by” setting. Currently it’s set to group by “type / ascending”. And that’s the way is was when I upgraded my work pc from 1809 to 1903.

      Red Ruffnsore reporting from the front lines.

      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1857495 Reply

        Susan Bradley
        AskWoody MVP

        Mine was update, not clean.

        Susan Bradley Patch Lady

        • #1857903 Reply

          Mr. Natural
          AskWoody Plus

          WSUS or media creation tool? My work pc was WSUS.

           

          Susan replied at 4:20! Awesome!

          Red Ruffnsore reporting from the front lines.

    • #1857270 Reply

      anonymous

      There is a “Folder Options” dialog box which can be opened by opening the Explorer ribbon, click the “View” tab and click “Options”; there are probably other ways to get there.

      If you click on the “View” tab in this dialog box, there is an “Apply to Folders” button. I am on 1809 so I can’t test this, but if you set grouping to “none” as discussed above and then get to and click the “Apply to Folders” button, does it now remember the setting? I know this as worked on previous Windows versions to set new folder defaults.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #1857447 Reply

      BobT
      AskWoody Lounger

      The worst part of this new default is that it hasn’t been documented by Microsoft anywhere.

      They think they don’t need to, lol.

      Microsoft will tell you what you will use, and you WILL like it! No questions! Use it how the developers specify!

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #1857645 Reply

      warrenrumak
      AskWoody Plus

      The worst part of this new default is that it hasn’t been documented by Microsoft anywhere.

      Microsoft did announce the switch to sorting by date back in December. The argument being — how do you locate files you just downloaded, given that you didn’t choose the filename?

      • #1857677 Reply

        b
        AskWoody Plus

        The worst part of this new default is that it hasn’t been documented by Microsoft anywhere.

        Microsoft did announce the switch to sorting by date back in December. The argument being — how do you locate files you just downloaded, given that you didn’t choose the filename?

        Yes, I know, here’s a quote from:

        Announcing Windows 10 Insider Preview Build 18298

        “Updating the default downloads folder sorting: More often than not, when you download a file, you don’t change the name before downloading it. Because of that, the names aren’t always very memorable (cake_134_small_red.jpg anyone?). This makes sorting by name less optimal since it’s hard to find the file you’re looking for, so we’re updating the default sorting to show the most recently downloaded file at the top of the list” instead.

        “Note: If you’ve already altered the current sorting from the default in any way, we will not change it – this is only for people who haven’t changed it. If at any point you want to switch sortings, you can do so from the View tab in File Explorer. Some Insiders have had this change for a little bit now, and based on positive feedback we’re now rolling it out to 100% of Fast.”

        That lasted for a few months until 1903, which changed it again to Group by Date; which hasn’t been announced anywhere.

        Knuckle dragger Cannon fodder Chump Daft glutton Idiot Crazy/Ignorant Toxic drinker Blockhead Unwashed mass Seeker/Sucker "Ancient/Obsolete" (Group ASAP) Win10 v.1909

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #1858216 Reply

        anonymous

        I can find it because it will be in the downloads list of whatever program I used to download it. And it will have told me the file name when I downloaded it. And I will have changed it if it was stupid.

        If I’m checking the actual folder, then it’s because it’s been long enough that I don’t remember when I downloaded it. So keeping it organized by name is more useful.

        In the rare cases when I do need it organized by date, I am capable of right-click > Sort By > Date. But I always wind up changing it back later. (And this applies to every folder, as I occasionally need to sort by Date in many places, not just Downloads.)

    • #1858055 Reply

      OscarCP
      AskWoody Plus

      I have everything in all my folders set up to group things by type. As to the sorting of the contents of a folder after they are so grouped, it varies with what I keep in a given directory: I choose whatever order makes it easier for me to find what I need there.

      Also, I have never used the prepared folders (“Downloads”, “My Pictures”, “My Music”, etc.) I have things set up so everything I download goes to a “Downloads” folder of mine put conveniently in evidence on the desktop, and then I drag things from there to their final destinations in folders of my own that I also keep on the Desktop. I have folders within those folders, so there are not many of those on the desktop, because those there are like Matryoshka dolls inside, with folders nested within other folders nested within yet other folders… After years of using this system, I am comfortable with it. It is a labyrinth, I suppose, but it is my labyrinth, and I’m like a happy rodent comfortable nesting in my own familiar burrow of a filing system. Note to MS: it takes all kinds to make a world.

      I mention the above, because the development discussed here strikes me as a forcible attempt to dumb down the system come what may. Note to the MS Higher Up In Charge of Making Dumbing-Down Decisions: I do not work for you, I shall never work for you, you are not my boss, you shall never be my boss, so just go away and leave me and my stuff alone.

      Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group B & macOS + Linux (Mint) => Win7 Group W(?) + Mac&Lx

      • This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by  OscarCP.
      3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #1858091 Reply

      Noel Carboni
      AskWoody_MVP

      Thanks for the tip on Disk Cleanup clearing the Downloads folder.

      I use Disk Cleanup rarely, and when I do I always go through the individual entries before issuing any commands to delete anything, but this does sound like a gotcha waiting to happen.

      Turns out for the first time ever with my new install of Win 10 v1809 early this year I chose to use one of the system-defined folders, the Downloads folder, to store my library of downloaded data. I figured hey, usually the default folder for a download would be closer to where I want to drop things – into subfolders.

      This kind of potential gotcha is why in general I have avoided conforming to the way “they” want us to do computing in the past. I don’t like magic behavior. Now I need to consider whether to undo the decision or just try to remember that the gotcha is there if I choose to use Disk Cleanup. I have backups, of course.

      -Noel

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #1858093 Reply

      Alex5723
      AskWoody Plus

      I always download to the desktop and move the files to the appropriate folders. I don’t use Windows “Downloads”, “My Pictures”, “My Music”, “My Documents”,etc. These are created on my D drive out of reach from Windows updates…

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #1858526 Reply

      MWmC
      AskWoody Plus

      I really appreciate this post. I had noted the new default, but i’ve been too lazy to poke around and find the setting. I’ve set it back to un-grouped. And thank you also for the reminder to clear out my Downloads folder. I *am* guilty of letting it fill up a bit, even when i’ve otherwise handled the files properly, such as copying them into Evernote or into some other, more appropriate directory. I’ve set myself a recurring task in Todoist to keep an eye on Downloads.

    • #1858541 Reply

      HarryH3
      AskWoody Lounger

      This makes about as much sense as the default “Hide Known Extensions” (STUPID DECISION, MICROSOFT!!!) or the default “Don’t underline Hotkeys” (Does that really confuse the unwashed masses?!?!?), forcing me to turn it on via Ease Of Access every time I sign on to a different computer.  (Yeah, I prefer the keyboard over the mouse for many things).  Who is in charge of this stuff at MS these days?  The idiocy has gone over the top.

      Don’t even get me started on the $&^!-show that Control Panel Vs. the Settings app has become.  Probably not a big deal to Aunt Martha and Uncle Ed, but those of us that support lots of users find it maddening to try to decipher where some settings have disappeared to!  (It is interesting that we had “Add or remove programs” in Control Panel pre-Vista, then the setting became “Programs and Features”, and now it’s still “Programs and Features” in Control Panel, but “Add or remove programs” in the settings app.)  The main consistency from MS these days is INconsistency.  🙁

      My theory is that as the MS old-timers retire, the younger crew is coding with reckless abandon.  They seem FAR too focused on quantity of code rather than quality of code.  🙁

       

      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1858586 Reply

        b
        AskWoody Plus

        (It is interesting that we had “Add or remove programs” in Control Panel pre-Vista, then the setting became “Programs and Features”, and now it’s still “Programs and Features” in Control Panel, but “Add or remove programs” in the settings app.)  The main consistency from MS these days is INconsistency.  🙁

        There’s no “Add or remove programs” in Settings.

        Knuckle dragger Cannon fodder Chump Daft glutton Idiot Crazy/Ignorant Toxic drinker Blockhead Unwashed mass Seeker/Sucker "Ancient/Obsolete" (Group ASAP) Win10 v.1909

        • #1858588 Reply

          HarryH3
          AskWoody Lounger

          (It is interesting that we had “Add or remove programs” in Control Panel pre-Vista, then the setting became “Programs and Features”, and now it’s still “Programs and Features” in Control Panel, but “Add or remove programs” in the settings app.)  The main consistency from MS these days is INconsistency.  🙁

          There’s no “Add or remove programs” in Settings.

          So that apparently goes back to my preferred use of the keyboard, rather than the mouse!  To see what I mean, hit the Start key on your keyboard and type pro.  This brings up “Add or remove programs” with a subheading of System Settings at the top of the list.  :-O

          Attachments:
          1 user thanked author for this post.
          b
    • #1858542 Reply

      anonymous

      The setting is not “reverting” back to group view. There are two places this setting must be changed. If you change the setting in one place and open the other location, it will still be group by. They show the same files, but apparently these two are unique locations.

       

      C:\Users\*\Downloads

      This PC > Downloads

      • #1858622 Reply

        carpintero
        AskWoody Lounger

        No, C:\Users\*\Downloads and PC > Downloads are one location.

        “File Explorer” should be a file explorer;  so, MS, rename this thing to “Symlinks Menagerie”,
        and make a separate file explorer having name “File Explorer”

        MS oldtimers never were any better than their clones who do Windows UI currently.

        ——-
        Returning to thread topic:
        my 1903 (upgraded) Explorer changes my grouping setting as Susan’s does.
        And, as forever, Explorer also whimsically reorders user-ordered columns, removes user-added colums, changes type of view (at nearly every refresh of the window contents)

        • #1858637 Reply

          b
          AskWoody Plus

          No, C:\Users\*\Downloads and PC > Downloads are one location.

          … but can have different view settings.

          Knuckle dragger Cannon fodder Chump Daft glutton Idiot Crazy/Ignorant Toxic drinker Blockhead Unwashed mass Seeker/Sucker "Ancient/Obsolete" (Group ASAP) Win10 v.1909

    • #1858874 Reply

      mngerhold
      AskWoody Lounger

      Identical I’d say. My download is in a custom location – cloud – where it is accessed by three computers and forms a ‘library’ of installed programs.  anything that empties that without my say so is REALLY going to hiss me off. However, I am sure the cloud service will prompt something like, ‘do you really want to delete all those’ and has an option to restore. Ability to recover aside, Downloads is a folder that Microsoft should not decide by default contains garbage. That’s an end-user decision.

      I find this a curious attitude. The name of the folder is “Downloads”, which is a word used to describe the mechanism by which the file arrived on the machine, not a description of the contents of the files themselves.  It is, in effect, a pre-sorting area. Always has been.

      You should be sorting your files by what they are.  That’s why we have directories like “Pictures”, “Videos” and “Documents”.  Windows doesn’t come with a folder called “Software” or “Installers”, so if you want to store such things, make that folder and move such files there.

       

      Wait a minute!  Are you (on MS’ behalf) telling me/us what we should be doing?  I shall do what suits me, and keeping files in sub-folders under Download (eg installed, removed, test etc) suits my way of working.  No way are downloads something transient that MS can decide need cleaning up.  Not that I’ve been caught out, because I noticed the tick in the box the first time.  I will credit MS with leaving it unticked so far.

      Now to read the rest of the posts, to discover I am merely repeating what others have said…. (and find out how to only quote the bit I wanted)

      • This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by  mngerhold.
    • #1859091 Reply

      Mele20
      AskWoody Lounger

      The worst part of this new default is that it hasn’t been documented by Microsoft anywhere.

      Microsoft did announce the switch to sorting by date back in December. The argument being — how do you locate files you just downloaded, given that you didn’t choose the filename?

      I use a browser to download and I simply click on the download page in the browser after the download finishes and choose “open containing folder”.

      I hate the stupid name “downloads”. The proper name would be Downloaded Programs so I always create such a file on the Data drive and point all my browsers to save downloads of any kind there (mostly .exe and .RAR). My C drive is an SSD 500 GB while my D drive is 2 TB.

    • #1861157 Reply

      carpintero
      AskWoody Lounger

      … but can have different view settings.

      Good point

      proper name would be Downloaded Programs

      Misleading name.  Other files also go there.

      • This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by  carpintero.

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    Reply To: Patch Lady – a new default I’m not fond of

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