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  • Patch Lady – KB 4103718 and the “third party problem”

    Posted on Susan Bradley Comment on the AskWoody Lounge

    Home Forums AskWoody blog Patch Lady – KB 4103718 and the “third party problem”

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      • #194608 Reply
        Susan Bradley
        AskWoody MVP

        You remember when I posted the other day that KB 4103718 removed the “we’re researching” note from Microsoft?  Well later that day it changed… again
        [See the full post at: Patch Lady – KB 4103718 and the “third party problem”]

        Susan Bradley Patch Lady

        6 users thanked author for this post.
      • #194614 Reply
        KarenS
        AskWoody Lounger

        Susan (AKA Patch Lady)….I am not sure this is related to this topic but as I know next to nothing about computers I always follow the experts advice here on Woody’s on when and what to patch. I am Windows 7 x64 Group A. I still have all my May updates sitting and waiting for the go ahead. Now it is interesting that this “third party driver” is mentioned because I have an update that I have no idea what it is or why I am being offered it, I have never seen it before. It doesn’t have a KB# but it is listed as “Microsoft-HIDClass 5/14/2018”, the description says it is it a “driver update”. Can you explain what it is for and advise me on what to do with it.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #194615 Reply
          Cascadian
          AskWoody Lounger

          Hi KarenS, recently Woody had a Computerworld article:
          https://www.computerworld.com/article/3273550/microsoft-windows/lots-of-little-microsoft-patches-but-nothing-for-this-months-big-bugs-and-no-previews.html

          and here is a link to the discussion thread about that article:

          Lots of little patches, but nothing that puts a dent in this month’s big bugs

          I’ll go do some more reading to see if I can give any better details. Wanted to get you started first though.

          from the midst of Woody’s article linked above:

          Ends up that the “Surface — HIDClass” driver is for Microsoft USB keyboards. It has nothing to do with Surface.

          Are you seeing any usability problems with USB ports in general or user input devices in particular?

          Also, I recognize the possibility you are describing an entirely new Microsoft offering. They seem to come on any given day these days. Is there any other details that may show this to be different from what is already described?

          2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #194629 Reply
            KarenS
            AskWoody Lounger

            @Cascadian, Thanks for those links. In reading both I remember having that Surface HIDClass driver update back on 2/8/2018 and I hid it because I didn’t have anything surface related to my laptop (I don’t own a desktop). As far as the second link goes they discussed this exact update but there was no definitive answer as to what it was or whether those who have it should install it.

            I am not experiencing any difficulty with my USB ports that I can tell. The only thing I have plugged into my laptop is a Microsoft mouse (can’t stand a touch pad). I am not sure what a “user import device” is so I can’t give you an answer on that.

            1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #194636 Reply
              Cascadian
              AskWoody Lounger

              The usual advice for drivers in general is to update from the manufacturer, not through Windows Update. In cases where Microsoft is the manufacturer, or they have broken previous driver’s function, there may be an exception.

              This case appears to fall into the ‘Aint broke, don’t fix’ category. You have not identified a need for a new driver, so I do not advise to accept a new driver. When you have a failure that points to a Human Interface Device, I would reconsider that advice.

              A user input device is a keyboard, mouse, trackball, joystick, touchpad, &c. The term is outdated apparently, from a time when we figured all users were in fact human. Microsoft has decided that term is not accurate enough. As DrBonzo notes these are now labeled Human Interface Devices or HID’s.

              If all of the hardware you use to give directions to your computer are operating as they were last week, then I would do the same as you have done before. Ignore or hide this update at your pleasure.

              2 users thanked author for this post.
            • #194644 Reply
              OscarCP
              AskWoody Plus

              Have you tried using a printer?

               

              Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group W (ex B) & macOS Mojave + Linux (Mint)

              • #194739 Reply
                KarenS
                AskWoody Lounger

                Yes, I have used my printer several times over the past week and that is working fine.

            • #194649 Reply
              Kirsty
              Da Boss

              Aha!

              Don’t panic if Microsoft offers you a “Surface – HIDClass” driver on your non-Surface PC

              by Anmol | @anmol_112
              May 15, 2018

              The “Surface” in the software is not Microsoft’s PC brand. Instead, this just a way Microsoft identifies where your keyboard is housed in the device.

               
              Also, there’s a report of a fan issue after installing the May 14th update, on borncity.com

              3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #194620 Reply
        DrBonzo
        AskWoody Plus

        Here’s a link that might be helpful, although for me, at least, it’s above my paygrade.

        https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/hid/

        HID is short for Human Interface Device, which in turn are things like keyboards, mice, etc. Basically how a human interacts/interfaces with their computer. It doesn’t appear to have anything to do with Network Interface Cards (NICs) which seem to be the current issue with the Rollup patch (KB4103718). But again, I could very well be missing something. Hopefully Cascadian or an MVP can help out.

        I, too, am interested because I’m a WIN 7 x64 person waiting to see if the patch issues clear up.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #194634 Reply
          KarenS
          AskWoody Lounger

          @DrBonzo, thank you for that link, it is also above my knowledge or experience but the only thing that relates to me in that article is that fact that I have a Microsoft mouse connected to my laptop via one of my USB ports.  So if the update is related to that mouse I am not interested in it as I am having no issues with my mouse. As the saying goes “if it isn’t broke, don’t fix it!”. 🙂

      • #194625 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        Please correct hyperlink to comments in header of article on the main Ask Woody page.  Currently it points to https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/patch-lady-kb-4103718-third-party/

        but should be to

        Patch Lady – KB 4103718 and the “third party problem”

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #194641 Reply

        @Susan:

        “…, but come on, stop tip toe-ing around your business partners and remember that you have a responsibility first and foremost to your customers.”

        Well said! Good show! Hear, hear!

        Name names!

        Win7 Pro SP1 64-bit ESU, Dell Latitude E6330, Intel CORE i5 "Ivy Bridge", Group "Patch List", Multiple Air-Gapped backup drives in different locations, "Don't auto-check for updates-Full Manual Mode." Linux Mint Greenhorn
        --
        "A committee is the only known form of life that has at least four legs and no brain."

        -Robert Heinlein

      • #194779 Reply
        Jan K.
        AskWoody Lounger

        Now it says that a “third party driver” is the cause of the loss of networking, yet it doesn’t say which third party driver is at fault. With my deepest respect…

        Why on earth should that statement be considered even remotely true?

        Of course people using true genuine through-and-through Microsoft products never experiences any problems, so perhaps…

        Erh… wait… perhaps not.

        Sorry, I just don’t buy it. Microsoft didn’t even care to read and transfer the old settings from the perfectly fine working network driver, when they replaced it. Looking back the past years, the list of this exact behaviour is pretty long… half thought through, half baked updates is the norm of today.

        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #194814 Reply
          lurks about
          AskWoody Plus

          My translation of the weasel words is MS screwed up but is trying to avoid admitting it. They have a history of blaming others such Avast when there are problems with an update whether the fault is third party or not. So by not pointing the finger it would imply MS has screwed up something big time.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #194983 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        It’s not only KB4103718 (May 8, 2018—KB4103718 (Monthly Rollup)) that has been updated last friday with the missing oem<number>.inf issue. The problem seems to date back to the March 2018 Security-Only and Monthly Rollup updates.

        All of the folloying knowledge base articles have been updated friday May 25, 2018:
        KB4088875: March 13, 2018—KB4088875 (Monthly Rollup)
        KB4088878: March 13, 2018—KB4088878 (Security-only update)
        KB4088881: March 23, 2018—KB4088881 (Preview of Monthly Rollup)
        KB4093118: April 10, 2018—KB4093118 (Monthly Rollup)
        KB4093113: April 17, 2018—KB4093113 (Preview of Monthly Rollup)
        KB4103718: May 8, 2018—KB4103718 (Monthly Rollup)
        KB4103713: May 17, 2018—KB4103713 (Preview of Monthly Rollup)

        Also, there is a new never heard before issue with the March 2018 Security-only update (KB4088878):

        Symptom: A 32-bit (x86) computer won’t boot or keeps restarting after applying this security update.

        Workaround:
        Before applying this security update and subsequent security updates, uninstall the following external drivers until they are fixed by the vendor that owns them:

        – HASP Kernel Device Driver (a.k.a. Haspnt.sys)
        – Hard Lock Key Drivers (a.k.a. hardlock.sys)

        3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #195003 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        I’m running a Dell Win 7 x64 system with a Realtek PCIe GBE Family Controller NIC. Installed KB4103718 without any issues … so maybe we can scratch Realtek off the 3rd party list?

        • #195136 Reply
          anonymous
          Guest

          Can confirm. Realtek NIC, KB 4103718 installed, no network issues. Didn’t I read somewhere that it was mainly an Intel NICs-problem?

          ~ Annemarie

        • #195144 Reply
          Jan K.
          AskWoody Lounger

          Marvel chip here, no problems.

          Problem isn’t third party, it’s the main “party”….

          1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #195477 Reply
          anonymous
          Guest

          Win 7 x64 system

          I think they’re not affected. I have some x64 and x86:
          x64+Realtek NIC – OK
          x86+Realtek NIC – NOT OK

          I cannot apply monthly rollups on 3 PCs with Win7 x86 since march.

        • #195481 Reply
          anonymous
          Guest

          Homebuilt Win 7 SP1 x64 PC here. Have not installed KB4103718 as yet.

          Under Device Manager I have:
          Atheros AR8161/8165 PCI-E Gigabit Ethernet Controller, and Kaspersky Security Data Escort Adapter.

          Again, I haven’t yet pulled the trigger on KB4103718 yet, but I’m nervous as a long-tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs. It is, after all. the Friday after Fifth Tuesday.

          Has anyone heard anything about Atheros cards Being on the hit list?
          Thanks mucho.

        • #196813 Reply
          EP
          AskWoody_MVP

          Speaking of Realtek PCIe GBE Family Controller NIC, get the latest Win7 driver from Realtek’s web site, which has been recently updated for Win7. Realtek does a very good job updating their NIC drivers for Win7, 8.x & 10.

          2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #195014 Reply
        columbia2011
        AskWoody Plus

        After three months, critical level errors are detected (sudden reboots or a system boot error) and didn’t solve yet. Keep it up, Microsoft ! More mess and complete incompetence of Microsoft specialists! Will stay on updated PC with December 2017 updates.

      • #195156 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        Please note – the KB specifically says “third-party software” NOT driver

        • #195235 Reply
          Jan K.
          AskWoody Lounger

          Erh… all my drivers are software?

      • #195230 Reply

        @Patch Lady:

        Under my Device Mangler it says under Network Adapters, it says:

        1. Dell Wireless 1540 2.4/5Ghz made by Broadcomm.

        2.  Intel 82579LM Gigabit Network Connection, and

        3. MSFT Virtual WIFI Minport Adapter #3,

        …as well as a  Dell DW5802 4G/LTE 3G device I never use.

        Do any of the Win 7 devices you installed 3718 to have the same NIC (s)?

        It’s the Dell Wireless card (#1) that’s the NIC we’re concerned with, right? Or is it any one of the above?

        Thanks!

        Win7 Pro SP1 64-bit ESU, Dell Latitude E6330, Intel CORE i5 "Ivy Bridge", Group "Patch List", Multiple Air-Gapped backup drives in different locations, "Don't auto-check for updates-Full Manual Mode." Linux Mint Greenhorn
        --
        "A committee is the only known form of life that has at least four legs and no brain."

        -Robert Heinlein

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