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  • Patch Lady – okay Microsoft, how about you help?

    Posted on Susan Bradley Comment on the AskWoody Lounge

    Home Forums AskWoody blog Patch Lady – okay Microsoft, how about you help?

    This topic contains 22 replies, has 17 voices, and was last updated by  Chronocidal Guy 4 weeks, 1 day ago.

    • Author
      Posts
    • #1984908 Reply

      Susan Bradley
      AskWoody MVP

      So the other day the only place I could find solid actionable information about the risk of attacks from the IE zero day was on a Microsoft 365 ATP E5
      [See the full post at: Patch Lady – okay Microsoft, how about you help?]

      Susan Bradley Patch Lady

      Total of 25 users thanked author for this post. Here are last 20 listed.
    • #1985052 Reply

      Geo
      AskWoody Plus

      They are describing in a long drawn out  explanation wanting everyone to be in Group A.

    • #1985078 Reply

      Geoff King
      AskWoody Lounger

      Susan, we mere users have to accept the fact that Microsoft listens to no-one.

      If not for you, Woody and the other MVPs, we would be in a constant state of bewilderment at Microsoft’s pathetic treatment of its users.

      Thanks to you guys, I’m managing to avoid most of the disasters that MS regularly imposes on us.  :-/

      10 users thanked author for this post.
    • #1985091 Reply

      Fred
      AskWoody Plus

      Anyone hopes MS will give attention to? Mrs Susan correctly describes “Quote start:

      You have a responsibility to all of your customers, and not just those with premier support contracts. : End quote”.

      Will Microsoft change without being sued for ‘many billions of billions of dollars’?

      And to whom of all the critics is MS listening?

      After all.. Just because we're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get us.
      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #1985144 Reply

      Pepsiboy
      AskWoody Lounger

      Anyone hopes MS will give attention to? Mrs Susan correctly describes “Quote start:

      You have a responsibility to all of your customers, and not just those with premier support contracts. : End quote”.

      Will Microsoft change without being sued for ‘many billions of billions of dollars’?

      And to whom of all the critics is MS listening?

      Fred,

      In a word, NO ONE ! ! ! The only thing they listen to is THEIR bottom line.

      Again, “Many thanks” to Woody and EVERYONE ELSE on the team at Ask Woody for all the help and insight as to what is going on and keeping us and our machines safe.

      Dave

      6 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1985369 Reply

        Fred
        AskWoody Plus

        “Funny” , my reply to you was not approaved. *Weird* …. I think there are ways to inform one and another. This site is one of them aswell as ghacks.net is .

        After all.. Just because we're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get us.
        • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  Fred.
        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #1985246 Reply

      Tex265
      AskWoody Plus

      With Windows 7 EOL in less than 3 months

      The Windows 10 mess – especially ver 1903 which everyone is being pushed to

      When will the user public co-ordinate and bring a class action lawsuit?

      No other company could produce, sell, and cause as many problems with a nationally utilized product not performing as intended and advertised without being held accountable!

      Seriously – when?

      Windows 10 Pro x64 v1803 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64
      4 users thanked author for this post.
    • #1985264 Reply

      WildBill
      AskWoody Plus

      Good post, Susan… & way to Stick It to M$! What Microsoft’s forgotten is that people talk… even us consumer peons. A looong time ago, M$ responded to not only business users, but consumers. Proof for Win7 users was the Service Pack 1. Proof for Win8 users was Win8.1 & its Update. Proof for Win10 users that M$ is listening & responding to complaints? Version 1909… maybe. We’ll see how that rolls out in November, whether most or all of the 1903 bugs are fixed, & how many new bugs 1909 will be infected with. Sadly, relying on testing in virtual machines, & telemetry from “Insiders” & suckers who haven’t turned it off yet, isn’t nearly as good as in-house testers providing results & communicating regularly with coders. Also sadly, M$ doesn’t care about that, or intensely listening to outside sources (AskWoody, ghacks.com, Gunter Born, & other independent sites).

      Windows 8.1, 64-bit, back in Group A... & leaning toward Windows 10 V1909. As long as it's a Lot Less Buggy!
      Wild Bill Rides Again...

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #1985288 Reply

      Chris B
      AskWoody Plus

      Hear hear, Susan. I have many complaints, that I will not repeat here, about how hard it is for an individual user to patch safely. The bland mandate of “implement automatic updates and suffer whatever bugs we may impose on you” is simply not acceptable.

      Chris
      Win 10 Pro x64 Group A

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #1985326 Reply

      agoldhammer
      AskWoody Plus

      I run Win10 Pro and defer updates for two weeks and wait for things to be sorted out.  So far the strategy is working.  Breaking printer pipelines is the worst thing as some of us rely on printing (I’m a photographer and need to always be able to print on demand).

    • #1985325 Reply

      anonymous

      When Windows 98 EOL approached I couldn’t afford a new computer so I bought a windows-like Linux distro called Xandros and dual booted. Linux for online activities and Windows for games and some programs I needed for my volunteer work.

      When I finally got a new computer I decided to stick to Windows XP and now use Windows 7. I wondered why I never went back to Linux. Well, the distro I used was discontinued and Windows did what I needed.

      I have been away from Linux for 10 years and have started thinking about it again. I am not a fanboy of any OS but I am not confident about  having to switch to Windows 10 in a few months.

      -firemind

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #1985370 Reply

      bbearren
      AskWoody MVP

      When will the user public co-ordinate and bring a class action lawsuit?

      Think of the numbers here.  How many users are actually having the problems being discussed here on AskWoody?  How many users are not noticing any problems at all?  Which group is a subset of the other, and by what percentage?  The Windows 10 user base is huge.

      I’m one of the MVP’s here, I’m running older hardware, I have 5 installations of Windows 10 Pro, a networked HP All-in-One, and I’m a Seeker (cannon fodder).  I click Check for updates almost every day, yet I haven’t had any of the problems that have been encountered by others here.

      This morning beginning at 1:00 AM, Task Scheduler had Image For Windows create drive images of my three main partitions/logical drives.  At the moment, I’m using a Robocopy batch file to copy those images to a 3TB HDD in the drive dock in my NAS.  All my data is in triplicate on different machines/drives, plus OneDrive in the cloud.  I can afford to be fearless.

      I have a different question.  Does anyone here think that Microsoft is putting out patches on Patch Tuesday for PC’s that are only partially up-to-date with Windows patches, or for PC’s that are fully updated with all pertinent patches?  My guess is that Windows updates are written for fully updated Windows installations.

      What I do know is that I have 5 fully updated Windows 10 Pro installations, I have no issues with any of them, and I have had no issues with them.

      Create a fresh drive image before making system changes (Windows updates are system changes), in case you need to start over!
      "The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Jack Sparrow
      "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns
      "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Dew

      • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  bbearren.
      • #1985418 Reply

        anonymous

        bbearren asks some intriguing questions. How many users are actually having any of the problems being discussed on AskWoody and how many are not? I am among those who have not been having any of these problems. But for me, the real question is how many problems have I avoided by paying attention to the advice being given on AskWoody? I don’t know and never will, but I feel much better spending some time here to keep up with what is going on and maintaining my system in the most prudent way I can.

        I also don’t see that what I am doing is so much in accordance with Microsoft’s notion of “social responsibility” as it is in protecting myself from their irresponsibility towards their users.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        LH
        • #1985987 Reply

          Chronocidal Guy
          AskWoody Lounger

          Unfortunately, it’s often impossible to prove a negative. There is no way to know how many errors have been avoided, or how many people have been utterly whalloped by the assorted updates with known issues.

          Does it make sense to be cautious? Absolutely. There is rarely any reason at all to push updates at the speed Microsoft dictates. Unfortunately, that model falls apart if everyone delays, because then no one is testing anything. But it still pays to be very cautious, and back up everything obsessively.

          After all.. Just because we’re paranoid doesn’t mean they aren’t out to get us.

    • #1985497 Reply

      gpmartens1
      AskWoody Plus

      I’m in a category similar to bbearen.  I have 8 computers (3 with 1903 18362.418, 3 with 1909, and 2 on Fast Ring).  Three are homemade desktops, a Surface Pro 3, a 12 yr old Netbook, and a 12 yr old laptop, the rest are recent laptops.  I keep them all updated, and other than the PIN problem 6 weeks ago, have had almost no problems.  I don’t have HP printers.  Two HP laptops that didn’t have Intel video driver problems. How many people, out of all the Win 10 users, are having problems, and are they avoiding updates?

    • #1985504 Reply

      pHROZEN gHOST
      AskWoody Lounger

      They are making Notepad better.

      Byte me!

      • #1985541 Reply

        Charlie
        AskWoody Plus

        I thought the better version of Notepad was … Wordpad.

        Win 7 Home Premium, x64, Intel i3-2120 3.3GHz, Groups B & L

    • #1985507 Reply

      GoneToPlaid
      AskWoody Plus

      Hmm…

      “© Microsoft 2019. All rights reserved. Reproduction or distribution of the content of this site, or any part thereof, without written permission of Microsoft is prohibited”

      Well, this legally implies that posting a link to any MS web page which displays the above warning is prohibited since a link could legally be argued to be a form of distribution.

      Nadella and MS are making sure that they are “lawyer-ed up” six ways from Sunday.

       

    • #1985535 Reply

      mn–
      AskWoody Lounger

      How many users are actually having any of the problems being discussed on AskWoody and how many are not?

      Yeah, that’s a good question.

      Another would be, how many of the problems we see are actually Windows problems and how many should be blamed on something else – badly written applications etc…

      I’ve got quite a few irregularly recurring issues where no one thinks it’s worth the trouble to dig into specifics that would be needed to determine if it’s Windows, the application, or maybe the hardware.

      Sure, I get asked to help with any number of things, but in many cases a problem is only reported by one person even when it affects several.

      Heh. At least I have some “guinea pigs” at home… I don’t have my children’s gaming/schoolwork PCs plugged into the monitoring / management system at work. And on average they run into some problem or another about every other month…

      • #1986042 Reply

        Chronocidal Guy
        AskWoody Lounger

        Another would be, how many of the problems we see are actually Windows problems and how many should be blamed on something else – badly written applications etc…

        I’ve wondered this myself a great deal. How much of the apparent instability with Windows can be blamed on the hardware or software it interacts with?

        So, as a counterpoint in defense of hardware and software developers everywhere.. You would also have trouble building a stable house if the local housing authority changed the contract and safety requirements continuously.

        I do not how much we can blame hardware and software vendors for unstable products when Microsoft is mucking with the foundations that their products depend on willy-nilly. They seem to have little regard for holding certain aspects of the operating system as standard, and in years gone by, they wouldn’t be making sweeping changes with such a break-neck pace.

        I cannot say this with certainty, because it is beyond my knowledge, but my distinct impression is that Windows’ constantly shifting foundation is forcing both hardware and software developers to adapt to the same reckless pace of development, so their products do not fall behind. Is this perhaps due to developers using shortcuts that Microsoft is eliminating? Quite possibly. Maybe the changes are for the better, but there seems to be no end to them.

        The operating system should be a stable base to build upon, not a constantly mutating baseline for developers to adapt to.

    • #1985538 Reply

      agoldhammer
      AskWoody Plus

      My experience with updates has been good.  I have two Win 10 workstations and a Win 7 HTPC running Windows Media Center.  Updates are installed two weeks after they come out and I’ve not seen any problems with any of the PCs.  I have two HP printers and a Canon Pro-1000 photo printer and no update has ever affected them.  As a couple of people pointed out the installed user base for Win PCs is huge and the number of problems that get reported is rather small.  It also looks like MSFT fixes things pretty fast when a problem occurs.

      For me switching to Linux won’t be an answer as Adobe photo editing is only Win or Mac OS.  My Win 7 PC has to stay as is since it runs Windows Media Center which is not supported in Win 10 (and you can no longer purchase the version that runs under Win 8.1).  Keep system images current just in case disaster strikes.

    • #1985558 Reply

      bbearren
      AskWoody MVP

      There are two points I want to emphasize about this post.  Drive imaging is absolutely essential for me, and I advise it for everyone.  For the past couple of decades I have been delving into the nether reaches of each version of Windows I have used (I never upgraded to Vista), dividing it into its main component system folders to enhance performance, (reading a bunch of related files from three separate drives is much faster than reading those same files from a single drive), reliability, and to facilitate rapid image creation.

      Over that same time period, I have had multiple hardware failures.  I even had a house fire in 2011, but my image files were safe.  I can say without hesitation that in that long time period, I have had far more hardware failures than Windows failures (other than the myriad that I have caused myself with my slicing, dicing and splicing).

      I have gone through multiple upgrades of both hardware and Windows versions, always keeping recent drive images at the ready in the event of mishap.  I have been using imaging software from TeraByte throughout, with which I’m comfortably familiar, and in which I have absolute trust.

      I have no reason to not install whatever update Windows has to offer for my systems, because should something go awry (which has not yet happened) I have quick, reliable and trustworthy recovery at the ready.

      The only issue I have had with upgrades were a couple that didn’t like StartIsBack++, said it was incompatible and got rid of it.  All I had to do was re-install it, and it worked great.  The upgrade to 1903 didn’t even kick it out, and I didn’t have to re-install it.  It still works great; makes Windows 10 desktop and start menu look and work like Windows 7 desktop and start menu.

      Of course the Patch Watch and MS-DEFCON are assets to SOHO IT folks who are running business/collaborative/proprietary software on lots of different machines.  I’m not in that category.  I’m just a user with a home network and a few machines who relies on drive images to bail me out of any given pitfall.

      Create a fresh drive image before making system changes (Windows updates are system changes), in case you need to start over!
      "The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Jack Sparrow
      "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns
      "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Dew

      2 users thanked author for this post.

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