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  • Patch Lady – Panos we need transparency

    Posted on Susan Bradley Comment on the AskWoody Lounge

    Home Forums AskWoody blog Patch Lady – Panos we need transparency

    This topic contains 19 replies, has 17 voices, and was last updated by  dmt_3904 2 days, 20 hours ago.

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    • #2135577 Reply

      Susan Bradley
      AskWoody MVP

      Earlier today two things happened.  Thing one:  Panos Panay was named in charge of Windows both in terms of hardware and software. The second thing oc
      [See the full post at: Patch Lady – Panos we need transparency]

      Susan Bradley Patch Lady

    • #2135589 Reply

      Kirsty
      Da Boss

      By way of background, from zdnet.com:

       
      Microsoft to combine its Windows client and hardware teams under Chief Product Officer Panos Panay
      It’s reorg day in Microsoft’s Experiences and Devices unit. Here’s what’s happening, including what’s happening with Windows client and Surface.

      By Mary Jo Foley | February 5, 2020

       
      The biggest and boldest move in the Feb. 5 reorg being announced internally today involves the Windows Experience (client) and the hardware teams. Microsoft is going to roll up these two businesses into a single team, known as Windows and Devices — reporting to Chief Product Officer Panos Panay, I’ve confirmed with a person familiar with the changes who asked not to be named. The move takes effect on Feb. 25.

      Corporate Vice President Joe Belfiore, who currently heads the Windows Experience business under Jha, is going to move over to the Office side of the house. Belfiore and Ales Holecek will be leading the Office Experience Group (OXO) team as a product/engineering team. Belfiore will continue to lead EPIC (Essential Products Inclusive Community), which includes the mobile apps on Android and iOS and Microsoft News.

       
      Read the full article here (as @sb linked)

    • #2135623 Reply

      RDRguy
      AskWoody Lounger
        Susan Bradley said:

      An entry in wikipedia now list Office 365 as a browser hijacker.

      Just checked & apparently all references to “Office 365” have been scrubbed. The Wikipedia page was last edited:

      This page was last edited on 5 February 2020, at 22:29 (UTC).

      I guess Panos Panay has read your post Susan.

      • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 6 days ago by  RDRguy.
      3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2135700 Reply

        WildBill
        AskWoody Plus

        I read Susan’s post this morning & clicked the Wikipedia link. Searches for “Office 365” & “Microsoft Office” came up empty, so the info was scrubbed. At least by a Micro$oft fan, if not by a paid minion. I’ll leave the “troll” interpretation to others…

        Windows 8.1, 64-bit, back in Group A... & leaning toward Windows 10 V2004. As long as it's a Lot Less Buggy!
        Wild Bill Rides Again...

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #2135626 Reply

      honx
      AskWoody Lounger

      An entry in wikipedia now list Office 365 as a browser hijacker.   It saddens me to see that.  This isn’t how software should be written and deployed.  And this REALLY isn’t how Microsoft should be deploying software in 2020.

      yeah, some troll is removing this entry although it’s the truth. i guess, this troll is employee at microsoft or at least paid by microsoft.

      PC: Windows 7 Ultimate, 64bit, Group B
      Notebook: Windows 8.1, 64bit, Group B

      • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 6 days ago by  honx.
      • #2135798 Reply

        b
        AskWoody Plus

        It was removed at least twice by someone who apparently works for Qualcomm, who used to be a Wikipedia administrator, but it’s back for now.

        Windows 10 Pro Version 2004: Group ASAP (chump/pioneer)

    • #2135643 Reply

      Cee Arr
      AskWoody Plus

      Panos Panay from the Berklee School of Music.  Oh well I guess he could give us a sympathetic rendering of Nearer My God to Thee as the good ship Microsoft flounders from one lee shore to another.  Seriously, it appears to me that no matter what managerial team MS plonked into Windows 10, things have generally not improved. Case in point the current Search debarcle. Managerial musical chairs is not the answer.  IMO just STOP – and get whatever is on the go running correctly.  Then leave everything be for an extended period – no more fancy updates, no more trying to keep up with the Googles, no more of anything at all. Just let the data dust settle and concentrate on the “existing version” of  Windows 10.  If MS were to do this I would be more than pleased.  Instead month after month I waste countless hours chasing buggy updates.  Maybe, just maybe, since version 3.1 it’s time for this 73 year oldtimer to find an alternative to MS  which is no longer the pleasure it once was.  Amen and pass the spuds.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2135784 Reply

        b
        AskWoody Plus

        Panos Panay from the Berklee School of Music.

        No, not that one, but his cousin:

        “His first cousin, also named Panos Panay, is an executive at Microsoft.”
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panos_Panay

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panos_Panay_(Microsoft)

        Windows 10 Pro Version 2004: Group ASAP (chump/pioneer)

        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2138520 Reply

        dmt_3904
        AskWoody Plus

        Maybe, just maybe, since version 3.1 it’s time for this 73 year oldtimer to find an alternative to MS  which is no longer the pleasure it once was.  Amen and pass the spuds.

        Been thinking this same thing for a long time!  Maybe just abandon MS machine, save for history, and use IOS devices (which suffer from some of the same problems, maybe to a lesser degree).  I can’t seem to make the cut – too much time and effort invested in MS!  But I am gradually using windows machine less.  Need a good, safe alternative to quickbooks for finances and a push out the window to make the jump!  Maybe MS will provide that push soon……

    • #2135691 Reply

      anonymous

      Thank you for standing up for us frustrated Windows 10 users, Susan! It’s evident that Microsoft doesn’t listen to the smallest and weakest of its customers, so we need prominent faces like you to remind Microsoft that they have a responsibility for keeping their software safe and secure.

      4 users thanked author for this post.
    • #2135730 Reply

      Kathy Stevens
      AskWoody Plus

      At this  point, having  a choice between a Microsoft product and a competitor’s I go with the competitor due to our experience with Windows 10 and Office 365.

      5 users thanked author for this post.
    • #2135789 Reply

      LoneWolf
      AskWoody Plus

      Thank you, both @sb and @woody for this.

      Fat lot of good it will do, but I tweeted both Susan’s article and Woody’s ComputerWorld article to Panay discussing the frustration and pain of thousands of IT admins around the globe (if not more). It has been 4-5 years since I have seen good QA coming out of Redmond with Windows (and to a degree, Office), and Microsoft has been entirely apathetic at best, and deaf at worst.

      I hope that “changes gonna come” -but I’m not holding my breath.  Still, I thank you for expressing the frustration we all share with more weight than those of us also behind enemy lines.

      We are SysAdmins.
      We walk in the wiring closets no others will enter.
      We stand on the bridge, and no malware may pass.
      We engage in tech support, we do not retreat.
      We live for the LAN.
      We die for the LAN.

      • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 6 days ago by  LoneWolf.
      3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #2135800 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      See Liam Tung’s take on Susan’s call, here on ZDNet.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #2135801 Reply

      warrenrumak
      AskWoody Plus

      For what it’s worth, Panos doesn’t own the entirety of Windows.  He’s only got the user interface / “client” part.

      The “core OS” piece is still owned by the Mark Russinovich and the Azure group, and that’s the place where most of the security vulnerabilities exist in Windows.  They also own the Windows Update infrastructure.

      Someone at Microsoft told me recently that it’s a little bit like how a Linux distribution is composed…. you’ve got the “Linux kernel”, which is done by the Linus Torvalds and the kernel team…. and then the shell and user interface, which is done by Ubuntu.

       

      • #2135813 Reply

        LoneWolf
        AskWoody Plus

        That may be so…but right now, I’m trying to reach anyone who listens.

        During Ballmer years (no matter how anyone feels about him), I had engagement.  Microsoft TechNet Briefings held here in town. Demonstrating new product, but also people who listened to the admins who showed up, and had the ability to relay concerns, or needs.  A group of Microsoft folks who liked the tech folks in my (300k in a county of 1mil) city and who kept their finger on the pulse.

        I haven’t seen that in the Nadella years. I’ve heard silence, and seen a Microsoft whose rush to embrace new tech has displayed a decidedly reticent attitude towards those who keep their platform running on a day-to-day basis.  It seems sometime as if Microsoft’s long-term goal is to become a very large, very badly-managed MSP that replaces IT deparrtments as a whole.  Having worked with Microsoft at the (extremely painful) Level I and the somewhat better but harder-to-get-to Level II, I don’t see that going well.

        It’s harder to manage systems where it’s clear the vendor doesn’t really care about the clients, and is surviving on monopoly inertia. I can easily see the difference in quality in this area from my other partner vendors and Microsoft and it pains me, because IT admins *want* to be evangelists for Microsoft like they once were, but are finding it difficult to be more than “yeah, that’s what people use” themselves.

        We are SysAdmins.
        We walk in the wiring closets no others will enter.
        We stand on the bridge, and no malware may pass.
        We engage in tech support, we do not retreat.
        We live for the LAN.
        We die for the LAN.

        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #2136200 Reply

          fk5353
          AskWoody Plus

          “It seems sometimes as if Microsoft’s long-term goal is to become a very large, very badly-managed MSP that replaces IT departments as a whole.”

          With this statement, I think you nailed it. My (and many other Windows sys admins) sentiments EXACTLY!

      • #2135839 Reply

        lurks about
        AskWoody Lounger

        There is key difference between Linux and Windows that allows Linux to have multiple groups working on different parts. The coupling between major parts such as the kernel to the windowing system is much looser in Linux than in Windows. This allows many parts to be more independent of each other and makes each part easier to maintain as bugs are more isolated.

      • #2135848 Reply

        johnf
        AskWoody Lounger

        “Someone at Microsoft told me recently that it’s a little bit like how a Linux distribution is composed…. you’ve got the “Linux kernel”, which is done by the Linus Torvalds and the kernel team…. and then the shell and user interface, which is done by Ubuntu.”

        I’m not going to knock Microsoft for trying to emulate the Linux model, but there’s a real problem doing this with closed source software (and possibly turning the culture around at Redmond).

        1. As has been discussed ad nauseam before on Ask Woody, Microsoft is not doing enough internal testing and beta testing of software because of the pressure to get rapid releases out. Much of that is economic (since W10 is now “free”), but the real issue is the over reliance on telemetry to fix issues. People need to tell Microsoft that telemetry does not work, since you’re fixing beta software but releasing more beta software. It simply cannot keep up, and isn’t as good as user testing.
        2. I’m NOT saying Linux is perfect, by the way. However, Linux, because it’s open source, allows better, clear documentation of what’s happening with your operating system. It would allow power users like Mary Jo or Woody to offer suggestions, or at least explain why things go wrong to their users.
        3. Microsoft is not going to yield on going back to the old way of selecting user updates. I think the reason is that they have to enforce telemetry, since they won’t do proper beta testing/quality testing. I don’t expect them to respond back to Mary Jo, by the way, and that’s part of the culture that needs turning around.
        4. Microsoft NEEDS to offer more choices to users if they want to use the Linux model. Linux gives you multiple UI’s (XFCE, KDE, Cinnamon, Gnome, LQXT, Mate, etc), some of which are more “bleeding edge”, and some like XFCE that are extremely stable since it takes years for a new version to come out. I’m not saying that Microsoft needs to offer as many, but they could offer a power user, business user, game user and a lightweight home user UI, each with it’s own rating of “bleeding edge” and “stability”, for users to choose.
        5. Lastly, MS needs to also offer a stable long term version like Ubuntu does with LTS, that only has security fixes for the most part. There’s no reason to keep changing basic things like search every 3-4 months, that’s asking for disaster. Rapid releases should only be for beta software.

        I hope Microsoft takes this to heart, and there are some positive things happening there, but until they listen and respond to their users, it’s going to be a mess. I know there are proprietary things in Windows, but perhaps they need to start getting rid of as much as possible and really go to a more open source model, as well as being more accountable and open to users. We’ll see.

        • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 6 days ago by  johnf.
        2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #2136034 Reply

      Steve S.
      AskWoody Plus

      I wish MS would actually do more of what they suggest their large business clients do.

      While reading the MS page about this Bing Search “browser hijacker” for Office 365 ProPlus users (https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/deployoffice/microsoft-search-bing), I came across the following sentence:

      If you decide to deploy Microsoft Search in Bing in your organization, we recommend that you at least send an email to your users to explain the reason behind the upcoming change…” Hmmm…

      An just below that is a link to some tools that businesses could use to “ensure adoption” which included the following advice:

      Understand what your users need and want. When it comes to finding information and getting answers, knowing your user’s needs and pain points is key.”  Hmmm, again….

      Physician, heal thyself, I say.

      Win7 Pro x64(Group B), Win10 Pro x64 1903, Win10 Home 1903, Linux Mint + a cat with 'tortitude'.

      • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 6 days ago by  Steve S..
      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #2136795 Reply

      Kirsty
      Da Boss

      Windows 10 Warning: Anger At Microsoft Rises With Serious New Failure

      By Gordon Kelly | Feb 6, 2020
      (EDITORS’ PICK | 242,039 views)

       
      Windows 10 may now be essential but users new and old have had a rough ride in recent weeks. And it has just gotten a lot worse after a new, high-profile Windows 10 failure has left more questions than answers and some seriously angry users.

      Popular Microsoft pundit Woody Leonard led the charge, writing: “If you believe that yesterday’s worldwide crash of Windows 10 Search was caused by a bad third-party fiber provider, I have a bridge to sell you.”

      In an open letter to new Windows head Panos Panay, Susan ‘Patch Lady’ Bradley was similarly sceptical, noting that today “we all found out that our local search boxes are somehow dependent on some service working at Microsoft.” She attacked the company for a lack of transparency and gave it a maximum ‘Pinocchio score’ for a lack of trust.

       
      Read the full article here

      1 user thanked author for this post.

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