• Patch Lady – seriously Gordon, Windows 10’s aren’t dropping like flies

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    • #2240744

      Amen and amen.  The sky is not falling.  I have drive images freshly created yesterday, three well-practiced, tried and true ways to get at restoring them should that ever become necessary after a Windows Update (never, so far), and I will be installing tomorrow’s patches as soon as they become available to me, since I have absolutely no good reason to postpone their installation.

      Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!
      We were all once "Average Users". We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems, we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2252533

        For over a year now, I’ve read w/ interest your descriptions of your partitions, 3x backups of said partitions, each verified 3 x and kept in 3 different safe locations. You use a myriad of utilities to prove, show, verify, and inform most every aspect ever posted here, and after each install and run and reboot I’m guessing you have to go thru your 3x routine again. Now, I have to wonder do you sleep? Do you DO anything with your systems besides backup, verify etc etc? For instance spreadsheets? Checkbooks? Games? Read for fun?

        If your partition setup is for real, I am truly envious of your perseverance, not to mention you have all these apps(I call em programs) loaded on an OS that ONLY you seem to be able to use with absolutely no issues. Every update, rollup,patch and memo msft ever released is on your system and nary a burp.

        Back to your partition schematic, that in itself should get you the Gates version of the Nobel !

        Seriously, do you USE your computers for anything that is productive? I know this may sound snarky but I do not intend it to be. I am really interested…..and envious….I think….



    • #2240748

      That’s a preview anyway.  Why would anyone install it.

    • #2240750

      Most tech journalists post something in their bio’s to lend credibility to their writing.

      This one?  Quote:  “. . . switched to covering consumer technology as the iPod began to take off.”

      That’s the single tech reference in his bio . . .  and that’s all I need to know about his “expertise.”

      Move along – literally nothing to see there.

      ~ Group "Weekend" ~

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #2240761

      Seems like there is a lack of common sense these days.

      Willie McClure
      “We are trying to build a gentler, kinder society, and if we all pitch in just a little bit, we are going to get there.” Alex Trebek
      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #2240767

      I’m reasonably certain Forbes accepts comments, queries, or letters regarding their articles. Have any efforts been made to address this article’s statements directly?

      On permanent hiatus {with backup and coffee}
      offline▸ Win10Pro 2004.19041.572 x64 i3-3220 RAM8GB HDD Firefox83.0b3 WindowsDefender
      offline▸ Acer TravelMate P215-52 RAM8GB Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1265 x64 i5-10210U SSD Firefox106.0 MicrosoftDefender
      online▸ Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1992 x64 i5-9400 RAM16GB HDD Firefox116.0b3 MicrosoftDefender
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      • #2240777

        I’m reasonably certain Forbes accepts comments, queries, or letters regarding their articles. Have any efforts been made to address this article’s statements directly?

        One could do that. But to what end? I’ve corresponded with Kelly about his ‘coverage’ of iOS issues on his  facebook page. I followed his iOS coverage for a while. He doesn’t often pull his punches if there any which should be thrown. But he’ll also encourage his readers to buy the next, shiny, sparkly things whether or not they’re actually needed.

        He writes not like a knowledgeable computer tech expert, but instead a clever journalist who is selling his own restaurant’s soup du jour so he’ll continue to have his writing gig. Not that I begrudge him that. It’s unlikely that he’ll get rich from his tech writing alone. But like most other journalists these days his primary product seems to be the churnings of fear. Comparatively few journalists these days trade in thoughtfully expressed facts.

    • #2240768

      One minor nit:

      Don’t use cccleaner. Registry cleaners do more harm than good especially on Windows 10.

      I agree with this, but there is a nuance. Beyond the registry cleaner, CCleaner is a useful tool; in particular, that would be the tool for cleaning browser caches and temp files, as well as the capacity of exporting the list of installed software to a file that can be imported into a spreadsheet.

      However, the CCleaner registry cleaner (and all other similar tools, including ones that compact and defrag the registries) should be assigned to the lowest levels of Dante’s Inferno. Registry tools may have had a measure of usefulness in the era up through XP, but there were enough changes introduced with Vista that they’re no longer needed, or even appropriate in Windows 7 and later.  Even if not problematic, the effect of registry cleanups is nearly entirely cosmetic, and will do nothing to improve performance or stability.  Although CCleaner’s approach is traditionally conservative, it’s not going to do anything useful, and there is a risk of damaging a system.

    • #2240773

      In her post, Susan wrote:

      Don’t use cccleaner. Registry cleaners do more harm than good especially on Windows 10.

      I use CCleaner for easy-to-operate cookie management, among other things. I can understand the part about not using the registry cleaning function, but the program has other useful functions. Moreover, there are other registry cleaners out there and yet, unlike CCleaner, they don’t get singled out. How about avoiding the blanket statement against CCleaner and saying simply, “Don’t use registry cleaners. They do more harm than good, especially on Windows 10.” (BTW, why “especially” on Windows 10?)


      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #2240783

      I use Windows extended Cleanmgr.exe, have done so for a couple of decades, now.  For about 5 years I did a running comparison between Ccleaner and the extended Disk Cleanup.  I kept Ccleaner updated throughout this period.

      I would run my extended Disk Cleanup, then run Ccleaner in its default setting.  All Ccleaner ever found were temporary internet files, always between 450MB and 550MB.  Unless one completely stays off the internet all together, those temporary internet files quickly build back up, so there’s no net gain.

      I finally uninstalled Ccleaner, and have not used it since.  That years long comparison was enough to convince me.  YMMV.

      Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!
      We were all once "Average Users". We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems, we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

      4 users thanked author for this post.
    • #2240794

      Well, let do the experts install updates and tell us the issues, as for me I won’t risk my computer. after all its not like there is an urgent situation to update yet.

      I would like to add, that I prefer to be safe than sorry, that’s why I never update in day 1 since sometimes I prefer to have a stable computer instead of a safe one.

      Just someone who don't want Windows to mess with its computer.
    • #2240799

      I’ve read quite a few articles by “Gordon” over the last 6/7 months. The “Sky” is usually falling for windows and he has really been pushing Linux hard with a number of articles when he isn’t bashing W10. To each his own, I guess.

      Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does 🙂
      All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #2240804

      If one looks at the links provided in his articles, the majority of them point to other Forbes articles – usually of his own writing.  To me, this type of self-referential “documentation” raises at the least yellow flags for me — and an accompanying several large grains of salt. 😉

      Win10 Pro x64 22H2, Win10 Home 22H2, Linux Mint + a cat with 'tortitude'.

      3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #2240806

      BTW, why “especially” on Windows 10?

      I’ve created a new thread to (hopefully) answer your question instead of going off-topic with a lengthy post.

      7 users thanked author for this post.
    • #2240847

      I’m curious why I’ve had posts mentioning him deleted with no explanation here, yet his articles (and him) keep being brought up. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #2240873

      while SOME people will have issues the vast majority of us will be fine and see absolutely no side effects whatsoever.

      Some of the SOME people are small businesses with $tens of millions in damages and SOME are corporate with $Billion in damages after the havoc created by Microsoft updates.

      I don’t see Microsoft, who declares full ownership of their installed OS, jumping to compensate them for damages.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2240897

        You often pull big numbers out of thin air to make a point. How about backing those claims up with verifiable articles and sources?


        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2240898

        The answer is simple : you gave up those rights in the Windows 10 EULA you accepted by checking the box and clicking Next…

        Your only recourse is one-on-one mediation. And you specifically gave up your rights to class-actions!

        Yes, I do read EULAs…


        • #2240901

          Where EULAs do not conflict with federal and state laws they are enforceable but there was that woman whose business was affected by GWX  messing up her business computer/computers that won damages.


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          • #2241423

            Yes, but at that time, you didn’t need to accept the license to have the machine trashed by an unwanted Windows 10 install.

            The lady was under the previous license, which didn’t have that clause, likely the Windows 7 EULA. Her machine was trashed by the unrequested installation, after which the license was shown. That would compare to the “By breaking this seal, you agree to the license enclosed (that you cannot read without breaking the seal)”. Which is illegal in many places.

            The case about updates breaking Windows occurs AFTER you accepted the mediation and forfeiting of your class-action rights. Not the same.

            I’m not a lawyer, but I read about the case a while ago,
            Stay safe!

    • #2240885

      News media has become the Chicken Little’s of the world anymore. I guess its the only way to get attention these days. As my Mom used to say, “Your making a mountain out of a mole hill”. I do think many times people simply have minor issues but have no skills to properly triage the problem. Or they simply go to forums and rant rather then provide helpful information so others can help them. For them, I guess you wait for a solution and hope it comes sooner then later.

    • #2240919

      Here at the office I even keep a spare SSD drive because so often they can just die spontaneously.

      Please back that up, or retract it!

      By spreading FUD like this, you are at least as bad as Gordon…….

      • #2240937


        Susan is doing what any good professional office IT admin does — keep spares.

        Yes, SSD failure rates are low, especially the newer ones from Samsung and the like. But the failure rate isn’t zero.  SSDs and HDDs are the components with the longest recovery times since you can’t just swap in a new unit like you would with a power supply, motherboard, monitor, or whatever.  Having an extra on-hand saves valuable hours (or days) and gets the user back up and running sooner.


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      • #2242882

        Dear Anon:

        I’ve had several SSD’s fail spontaneously over the years.  Some old, some new, some in workstations, some in server arrays.

        Unlike spinning rust, they don’t always give much warning before going splat. (Some brands are better at warning in advance, some not.  All assume that we actually monitor them with tools that can see SMART errors before the OS does.)

        Also unlike spinners, when an SSD dies it’s frequently impossible to recover useful data from them.  They often brick, where HDD’s usually allow quite a lot of usable data to be extracted after losing – say – their boot or MBR sector.  My track record of recovering data from HDD’s is pretty good, not so good for SSD’s even with the most advanced recovery software and tools.

        So two things:

        1)  Always have backups and know how to restore them (corollary: test restore processes) . . . and . . .

        2) Be like Susan and have spares on hand unless you fancy waiting for shipping or have a reliable local store with the ones you want in stock . . . (those are getting rare.)


        ~ Group "Weekend" ~

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    • #2240932

      Really really old software should be installed on really old systems. Meaning that if you install something where the drivers aren’t signed, or you have to jump through all sorts of hoops of application compatibility to get it installed, that’s not a good sign.

      The one exception I would make to the above is if you have a must-have software package that is old. One of my customers has two such software packages, one old and one really old. I installed both using Compatibility Mode; I used Windows XP sp3 rules for the really old one, and Windows 8 rules for the old one. Both of them work perfectly fine in Windows 10-1909 when I do it this way.

      If that wouldn’t have worked, I would have tried the Hyper-V route, which is essentially the same as installing the really old software on a really old system.

      I’m not disagreeing with Susan; it would be better if they would upgrade to newer software. But they aren’t going to upgrade; they’re going to stay with what they have. Rather than try to upgrade, they have employed me, the IT expert, to make it work.

      Quite frankly, I enjoy the challenge.

      Group "L" (Linux Mint)
      with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
    • #2240933

      I get the feeling, after reading Gordon’s article, that he has never troubleshot or repaired a computer; he merely quotes what others say.

      Nothing is said in his article about the age of the computers which got bricked from Windows updates – those computers could be years old, which would make them more susceptible to problems with updates. Nor does he state the amount of memory or hard drive space of those computers which went to 100% memory or hard drive utilization – for all we know, those computers could be the woefully underpowered cheap laptops that are sold in department stores such as Walmart.

      Group "L" (Linux Mint)
      with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #2240936

      The fact that Gordon gets paid to write this trash is an embarrassment to the whole tech journalism industry.


      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2241046

        When I read his article, I was reminded of the Windows 8 “wars” – so many people were posting bad things about Windows 8, and many of them obviously hadn’t ever used W8, they were simply going by what others were saying about it. I caught myself doing a bit of that, so I installed W8 and used it “as-is”, with no add-ins to make it more like Windows 7, so that I could speak knowledgeably about it. After a month, I had had all I could take from Windows 8, so I installed Start Is Back, giving me a Windows 7 style start button. Once I did that, I grew to like Windows 8. Best of all, I could speak knowledgeably about it, because I had actual experience with it, rather than just reading what others wrote.

        Gordon needs to roll up his sleeves and get some actual tech experience, rather than simply quoting others. In all fairness, this is the only article of his I have read, so I may be way off in my opinion of him.

        Group "L" (Linux Mint)
        with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
        • #2241196

          Lucky you!  Gordon’s been on the scene for a long time… at least 15 years by this point.  The thing is, he has a Literature degree — not journalism, not science, not engineering — and has spent pretty much the whole time writing about tech, instead of actually…. y’know… being responsible for it.

          Contrast this with someone like Tom Warren from the Verge, who has actually walked the walk in the IT world before years before taking up writing about it at WinRumors.  Or Mary Jo Foley, who has had her share of controversial statements over the years but has always been grounded in journalistic practice — and the degree to prove it.

          And you have guys like Woody, who has written a huge stack of technical and “for Dummies” books in his career, which requires a vast amount of research, dedication, and deep understanding.  That counts for a lot, too, when it comes to knowing who to trust to give you good information.


          • This reply was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by warrenrumak.
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    • #2241007

      You often pull big numbers out of thin air to make a point. How about backing those claims up with verifiable articles and sources?

      I will tell you from my experience.
      Years ago while working at a big bank our servers were hit by a c*** Windows update and all ~5000 servers crashed.
      It was on Thursday. The bank had to close all its branches to customers and its online banking web site, and we worked through Saturday night to bring all servers on again.
      The damage was in $tens of Millions stopping all customers and bank’s activities.

      This is happening now to other businesses every patch Tuesday.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2241425

        Shouldn’t internal testing find this before roll out to production?


        2 users thanked author for this post.
        RockE, b
      • #2241433

        Why didn’t the update get tested before being pushed out, you’d think a big bank would do this! Maybe they learnt something…

        • This reply was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by Mattchu.
        • This reply was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by PKCano.
        • This reply was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by PKCano.
        2 users thanked author for this post.
        RockE, b
      • #2242538

        This is happening now to other businesses every patch Tuesday.

        How do you know?

        Windows 11 Pro version 22H2 build 22621.2361 + Microsoft 365 + Edge

    • #2241354

      I’ve begun to see his articles as click-bait. Been burned (wasting time researching a supposed major issue) by his breathless emergency take on issues too many times. He/Forbes clearly have Google News fooled. Sad.

      I know Microsoft has bugs in their Windows updates, pretty much every one, but only some are severe. Best course of action has become to follow a middle of the road path, delay the updates a little for the cannon fodder to test, unless there is a genuine critical update needed.

      And yes, follow the general advice from Susan Bradley listed in her post.

      I’ll admit it’s a bit nerve wracking to be caught between hackers and Microsoft’s poorly tested “Quality” & Security updates.


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    • #2242534

      This question relates to the advice items in Susan’s article, specifically #5 about booting from a flash drive and more specifically from a Microsoft Surface Pro 4. I was able to find an on-line article article on this subject which goes into great detail about how to configure the Surface and then how to start from a USB. The configuration instructions require changing the boot order by dragging the USB Storage selection to the top of the Boot Configuration list.

      My question is if I make this change will it affect the normal boot process if I don’t have my Recovery Drive USB mounted?



      • #2242536

        If the USB device is at the top Boot Configuration list, the PC will attempt to boot from the USB port first.
        If your Recovery Drive USB is inserted, it will boot from that.
        If there is no USB device in the USB port, or the USB device that is inserted is not bootable, it will attempt to boot from the next device in the list (your OS drive, if that is next).

      • #2242659

        The reason we don’t put external devices first in the boot order is to prevent viruses on external media infecting machines pre-boot.
        As long as you have secure boot enabled this should not be an issue, so it would be OK to leave the USB as the first boot device.

        cheers, Paul

    • #2242775

      After reading Susan’s article, I thought to create a System Restore point.
      I do not recall ever having read “Cannot detect” in this spot:  systemrestore

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #2242816


      Sorry to be so uninformed, but how does one know if “secure boot” is enabled and, if not, enable it?

    • #2252069

      Unlike spinning rust, they don’t always give much warning before going splat.

      Danke je for that. I’ve only been running SSDs since 2018. So your observation makes me happy that I have my data stored in four additional locations besides my SSD system drives. Two copies in the cloud. Two local copies on spinning drives.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2252080

        I can confirm SSDs sometime fail without warning. I had one fail during a scheduled backup. The failure email tipped me off. The next morning, the user called me, the machine had crashed during the night, and wouldn’t boot after being reset.

        Got another one, restored the most recent system image, then restored the newer data backup, and off it goes! (I update the data backup twice a day, and update the system image every night. Both night backups, data and system, had failed.)

        That NAS paid for itself more than once!


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    • #2252121

      tools that can see SMART errors

      I (unknowledgeable of SMART specifics) would imagine that some monitored conditions/events are inapplicable to SSDs.  Anyway, some others no doubt are applicable, and I would like recommendations of such tools;  light weight ones.

    • #2252133

      My choice is https://www.hdsentinel.com/

      It works with SMART and the newer NVMe metrics and can trigger emergency actions on failing hard disks. The author is responsive, the software great. I have paid licenses for my family machines so I can check the disk health and be warned of failure.

      But sometimes, disks give no warning!


      P.S. Wasn’t there a newsletter with a list of SMART tools lately?

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2252139

        For small critical systems I also like HDSentinel!

        For servers, we try to buy RAID controllers that allow us to natively monitor and alert via email on all partial and full disk failures.

        In defense of SSD’s (lest folks think I am being too critical of them from my earlier post) over the last several years I have observed fewer SSD failures than spinners overall.  It’s just the nature of those failures – when they happen – that’s different.

        ~ Group "Weekend" ~

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      • #2252161

        P.S. Wasn’t there a newsletter with a list of SMART tools lately?

        Yes there is!

        ISSUE 17.5.0 – 2020-02-03

        Tools for monitoring drive health

        By Lance Whitney

        “Today’s PC storage media — traditional disk-based drives and newer solid-state models — are remarkably reliable.”


        ~ Group "Weekend" ~

        • This reply was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by NetDef.
        • This reply was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by NetDef.
    • #2252167

      I have been using CCleaner for years. Not just on my computers but also my smart phone. Works great for me. I use it on Windows 10 1903 several times a week, never having an issue. I also install all MS security updates as soon as they arrive.

      • #2252273

        You may not have has an issue but does it actually do any good? I suspect you are wasting your time attempting to clean up things that don’t need cleaning up.

        cheers, Paul

        • #2252348

          Not a waste of time at all since the cleanup only takes around 30 seconds or less. Between Revo Uninstaller and CCleaner, I’m doing good and a lot gets cleaned up. I just take issue when people make blanket statements that they think should apply to everyone. Different people have different experiences and in the years of using CCleaner I’ve not had any problems.

          • #2252529

            @Anonymous- Since you’ve been using CCleaner for years, how were you affected by the malware that was delivered in 2017? Yes, it wasn’t the ‘fault’ of CCleaner, but due to a hack, it came through the official channel… people who delay updating, just a little, find out about others experiencing these issues, and are able to avoid them…

            I’m always glad to hear that there are people that aren’t having update issues… but after being severely burned by W10 upgrades that BSOD’d previously well working, but low end computers that my friends and family brought to me to fix, I’d never be cavalier about any kind of updating again, and avoid automatic updates like the plague that they can be.

            Amazingly, Microsoft still allows hardware manufacturers to put W10 on low end equipment that is not suited to the kind of cumulative updating that W10 does, creating disposable computers when the non-techy owners find them failing updates and falling out of support. These are the people that didn’t have money for the higher spec equipment to begin with, are so happy to have finally bought themselves (or their kids, for school) a computer, only to have it fail in a relatively short time. Buyer beware is a thing… but Microsoft and hardware manufacturers shouldn’t be taking advantage of people that don’t have a lot of money to begin with. They didn’t learn, despite all the telemetry, how not to put those people in jeopardy. The digital divide is real, and when one has finally ‘conquered’ it, only to have its value disintegrated because of updating failures… well, that is beyond sad. Too many people I know were kicked back to the ‘not have’ side of the digital divide because of Microsoft… so bless you, @Anonymous, that you’ve never had the hardware that could not tolerate W10… and can blithely accept whatever may come. Would all of us be so lucky.

            I do follow Woody and Susan’s advice. It has allowed me to keep all of those machines, unloved by Microsoft, going (most not on Windows any more)… and my current W10 Pro desktop purring along.

            I’m grateful that Woody and Susan do make recommendations. Notice that they address different areas of the PC market, with different kinds of users, and have slightly different recommendations. It is important to understand who you are getting advice from, and what situations they are addressing.

            I’m thinking that Susan’s advice not to use CCleaner is based on the numbers of people who have messed up their machines by ‘cleaning’ the registry, and that doing so does not really improve anything on modern hardware.

            CCleaner does have other functions, having become much more than a registry cleaner, but that app, and others, could be a vector for mal-ware. Its been proven. Updates do cause problems for end users. Its been proven. Saying otherwise is kind of like calling those of us that have had those issues, liars… blaming the victims. Gordon, and the others who point out the problems, would not have an audience, otherwise. I’m hoping Susan is right, and things aren’t as bad as they are being made out to be… and that I won’t have to do recovery on any more machines.

            (I hate that I’m a sucker for being looked at sadly, as a computer is passed my way, and I’m told that it isn’t working right since it tried to reboot from that last update… but 2020 has been a good year for the hardware… and my family and friends now ask me about the specs before they buy, and I encourage them to look at processor speed and memory, and make sure there is more than enough)

            Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter

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    Reply To: Patch Lady – seriously Gordon, Windows 10’s aren’t dropping like flies

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