News, tips, advice, support for Windows, Office, PCs & more
Home icon Home icon Home icon Email icon RSS icon

We're community supported and proud of it!

  • Patch Lady – what PC should I get?

    Home Forums AskWoody blog Patch Lady – what PC should I get?

    Viewing 24 reply threads
    • Author
      • #236501
        Susan Bradley

        So remember those old news shows that would do those Point/Counterpoint discussions?  I’m going to counter Woody’s recommendation to move to a Chromeb
        [See the full post at: Patch Lady – what PC should I get?]

        Susan Bradley Patch Lady

      • #236504

        Re: your last sentence – I sure hope we are NOT moving to a browser based world because for anything other than consuming static or minimally interactive content, it is a positively awful platform!   All browser based applications offer sub-standard user interfaces hamstrung by slow, inefficient, and severely limited functionality.  I have yet to encounter a web based application interface that works well and isn’t a jumble of compromises.  And we won’t even touch on the fiasco that is material design.

        Lest you think me simply a crotchety old guy, the many people I support seem to have one thing in common…  They all curse the web based apps they are forced to use.

        No thanks, I want my applications to be efficient and fast, with real user interfaces that aren’t dictated by “web page think”.  So although I may use a browser for many things, it will not be to run applications.

        4 users thanked author for this post.
        • #236570
          AskWoody Plus

          I use one desktop computer for the web and another (the same make and model) for my work.  Many times over the last 25 years this has saved my bacon.  No way will I concentrate all my activity on one web-connected device.

          By using two computers I also have the freedom to consider alternatives like a Chromebook for web access, while continuing to use Windows 7 offline.

          2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #236505

        I agree with Susan…there’s something about having so much of the functionality in “The Cloud” it would make me uneasy. (See for some pun fun.)

        I have built my last three PC’s according to my own specs; for the fourth, I chose all the separate components just like the last three, but had a PC shop do the assembly and testing for me. (I got a 1 year parts and labor for that, and it wasn’t that much more.)

        I deliberately chose to over-spec just about everything using the “MIL-Spec Field Tech’s Rule of Thumb”:  🙂

        “Spec it all out, and then beef everything up by 50%.”

        The resulting 5-fan workstation has been running for 8 years with XPSP3 (offline) very few hiccups. (But I DID have to take it back to the custom shop twice to get the job done right.)

        You can save a ton of money this way, IF you get a good shop to do it, and have the knowledge of separate components and the time to do research on them.

        …and make sure the shop has a good number of business accounts, and check their refs and BBB!

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #236518
        Bill C.
        AskWoody Plus

        Great article! I especially like to see the warnings about too small HDDs or SSDs and the 8 or 16GB of RAM. Those items ‘may’ cost a bit more, but many laptop machines today are NOT end-user upgradable (for most users) and some not at all. Cheap out or choose unwisely and you will regret it, or you you will learn expensively (probably more than buying it up front).

        I have been told 8 Gigs minimum RAM since at least 2011. My rule of thumb was always double what ever the OS maker said it would run on since they want you to buy their bright and shiny new OS. With spinning HDD prices for huge 2-4 TB+ drives so low, you should not skimp on storage. That said, I still recommend an SSD for the boot drive, and if it is your only drive, 512GB is the smallest SSD I would consider. For the desktop user, especially if you or a family member might game, think not only of what video card you are buying, but also the power supply. Any future video card upgrades will be useless if your machines power supply is optimied for a low end card.

        With those two issues out of the way I find your recommendations for what you want to be very reasonable and prudent and cannot emphasis enough to do an inventory of what software or “apps” you actually use before switching OS on a whim or from a state of frustration. In any case I recommend buying or at least testing your preferred choice, BEFORE you need to actually switch so you can get used to it.

        I also echo, for those with the curiousity and interests, your recommendation on refurbs. For true flexibility (on laptops) get the manufacturers’ off lease business-grade product and OS (for Windows flavors, 64Pro). The business lines will give you all types of hardware ports and flexibility as well as a certain amount of redundancy and usually user upgradeability (some laptops will not not even allow end user battery replacement). If giving presentations have at least a VGA, DVI and HDMI on the laptop. It will save you when something is not present or not working in the auditorium or conference room, and also when you want to use a larger monitor, not to mention if your screen dies, you may be able to use a TV or external monitor hardware to at minimum, backup or remove your files before it hits the shop or is replaced.

        These previous paragraphs are for those that need or do work on a PC. (They also are from a person who likes to get their money’s worth from a purchase.) I do not buy a new car due to dirty floormats, get a new phone because of a new color, or dispose fo working equipment (yeah, it IS a generational thing 🙂 ). If you are only going to do email or surf, many can get by, but Susan’s comments about printing, getting files off the device, and emailing clients are often forgotten, until you are in an area without connectivity and need that item.

        3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #236520
        AskWoody MVP

        Bottom line you have to ask yourself how married you are to Windows or if you want to start the divorce proceedings.  It will be messy.  Things will be different.  Prepare yourself for yelling at your computer.  (I do realize you may be doing that to your Windows computer now)

        Having solved my Windows update issue, I now am mainly angry at what I read with my browser. 😀

        All good tips. (Typical from Susan)

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #236680

          Just remember: It is NOT Microsoft that will be paying the alimony…..

      • #236528
        AskWoody Plus

        Susan gives a lot of sage advice in her post; however, I do have one quibble. She writes that

        I don’t think it’s as mandatory to purchase Word or Outlook unless you are married to those platforms.  Libre Office is honestly so close to Word to be easily moved to.

        I agree on the first part, that you don’t have to buy Word or Outlook to perform the functions those programs provide. But I disagree on the LibreOffice part. We have had to exchange edited manuscripts back and forth with authors who were using LibreOffice, and it’s a nightmare. These were not highly complex files, and yet we ran into problems such as soft line breaks turning into hard breaks, such that paragraphs would end in the middle of a sentence, with the next “paragraph” starting mid-sentence; and files edited in Word coming back with both the deleted text and the new text showing (that is, change tracking didn’t work) when the manuscript came back from review by the author. It created a lot of extra work at our end.

        For people looking for an alternative to MS Office, I recommend SoftMaker Office, which in our experience is much more highly compatible with MS Office than is LibreOffice. In fact, I’m happily using the Linux version of SoftMaker Office in the Kubuntu box to which I’m transitioning our work.

        There may be other office suites that are highly compatible with MS Office, but SoftMaker is the only one I’m aware of.


        3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #236532
        Paul T
        AskWoody MVP

        Free or paid version of Softmaker?

        cheers, Paul

      • #236536
        AskWoody MVP

        DO not consider ANY computer less than 150 gigs to 200 gigs of hard drive. Anything less and you will be fighting windows bloat.

        I’d highly recommend an SSD (solid state drive) or alternatively an SSHD (solid state hybrid drive) and use HDD’s as a backup device based on higher storage volumes. For a primary boot storage device, 256Gb or greater volume SSD’s provide quicker access and overall snappier system responsiveness.

        DO not consider ANY computer less than 150 gigs to 200 gigs of hard drive. Anything less and you will be fighting windows bloat.

        DO not consider ANY laptop or computer without a SSD drive. Windows 10 is just happier (and you are too) with a SSD drive.

        these two considerations kind of contradict?

        | Quality over Quantity |
      • #236539
        AskWoody Lounger

        DO be prepared to NOT use registry cleaners, minimize the use of third party antivirus software.

        That sentence is as clear as mud.  Do you mean rely on Defender?  You don’t ‘minimise the use of third party antivirus software’, you either use it or you don’t.

        Edit: HTML within quote

      • #236538

        Yes, I agree to highest extent with most findings of Patch Lady. EXCEPT that innuendo, to get a MS Surface, cmon, you all read what Woody have said about it, you saw what iFixit experienced, so on so forth. DONT get a Surface, but a decent machine or laptop.

        • #236552

          I’m beginning to think that the latest Surface devices are OK. Pricey, yes, but not riddled with the bugs that shook, say, the Surface Pro 4 to its roots.

          Quality of the latest Surfaces is, without doubt, better than what has come before. What’s still an open question, to my mind, is whether the organization supporting Surface has improved. Jury’s still out on that one.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #236541

        While it may be true that it is better to “have” a PC with a SSD, it is not necessarily most cost effective to “buy” a PC with a SSD.
        The additional cost of buying the otherwise same PC with SSD already built in can be more than or similar to the cost of buying that same PC with HDD and also buying a separate SSD of type and manufacturer of your choosing (and if necessary an external USB connected enclosure to connect it to your PC) to allow you to “clone” the PC’s HDD to the SSD.
        Later after cloning and swapping HDD and SSD over, your now spare HDD can be used to store a “clone” of your PC’s SSD e.g. as a weekly/monthly/pre-Windows Update backup, or as a spare disk for long term storage e.g. photos, music etc.
        Just a thought. Garbo.
        PS: More support for Softmaker Office here, but be aware that it has no MS Outlook equivalent (I use Thunderbird anyway) and beware of their “NX” yearly subscription, rentware version which is their equivalent of MS Office 365 and may not be the version you want.

        4 users thanked author for this post.
        • #236543

          Ooops! Hit submit before I had finished typing.

          Wrt Softmaker I meant to add that there are often giveaways of earlier versions of their paid for product out there (to tempt customers to buy their latest version) often at reduced prices, so it is worth while searching (hint: I just tried searching “free softmaker 2012” using StartPage). I started with a 2008 giveaway and later bought a cut-price 2012 via this route. (BTW: Softmaker 2008 used ~80MB compared to MS Office 2003 using ~1.2GB at that time, so if you are short of disk space …)


        • #236619
          AskWoody Lounger

          @anonymous yep you nailed it in one there and that’s just what I have found over the years: if your not afraid to go under the Hood or you know a good local repair shop/guy who does good work without “gouging” then even @susans suggestion that its not cheap is actually quite doable and on a Budget too 🙂

      • #236553


        Well put.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #236602
        AskWoody Plus

        [See the full post at: Patch Lady – what PC should I get?]

        DO not consider ANY laptop or computer without a SSD drive.  Windows 10 is just happier (and you are too) with a SSD drive.

        DO not consider ANY laptop or computer with less than 8 gigs, 16 gigs preferably.

        DO be prepared to buy a computer with Windows 10 pro or upgrade to it to be able to control and push off updates.

        I absolutely have to agree 100% with those 3 points.  I have 2 PC’s that fall on each side of that coin, and my opinion is based on personal experience.  The one with Win 10 Home, 4GB RAM, and a spinning drive is a [pain].  It was a cheap laptop, and it serves it’s purpose as a mobile office when on the road, but I do not enjoy using it.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #236914
          AskWoody Plus

          I do agree with the first two points regarding minimum RAM and HD capacity (I have written much the same elsewhere), but not with the third. I already control updates to my Windows 7 Pro PC, my newly acquired Mac, and assume people running Windows 8.1 or LINUX can do that too. So, if installing Window 10 is necessary, it could not be just for that reason.

          Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group W (ex B) & macOS Mojave + Linux (Mint)

      • #236623

        Might be better to switch to Reactos that keep using Windows.

        Reactos works with most programs and is more like Windows than anything else. MS even sued them to stop them from making a better Windows.

      • #236627
        AskWoody Lounger

        The advice about not using “registry cleaners” is VERY good advice.

        Programs like CCleaner, even when they do find a lot of stuff left over from a lot of poor software, will end up clearing out significantly less than 1% of the Registry.  You aren’t going to notice the difference.  Just like how you can’t tell the difference between a 99% defragmented HDD and a 100% defragmented HDD.

        It’s all snake oil and placebos.

        Also, CCleaner is now in the business of disabling Windows Defender and replacing it with Avast AV without telling you.  I found out about this the hard way — by looking at the “Startup items” in CCleaner and discovering to my shock that Avast was installed!


        5 users thanked author for this post.
      • #236647
        AskWoody Plus

        Considering Linux Mint for the breakup; doing research & looking at replacement apps for the Windows-based ones. Staying with Firefox for browsing, just moving to the Linux flavor. VLC media player for Linux is being considered for music & video. I’m attached to Android & Google apps on my phone, but that’s more than enough data going to Alphabet. Won’t give them more via a Chromebook. As for macOS & Apple’s walled garden, if the Supreme Court decides the App Store is a monopoly for iOS, does Apple also have a monopoly for Mac apps? Not sure about this…

        2 Machines for Now!
        #1: Windows 8.1, 64-bit, back in Group A.
        #2: Getting close to buying a refurbished Windows 10 64-bit, recently updated to v1909. Have broke the AC adapter cord going to the 8.1 machine, but before that, coaxed it into charging. Need to buy new adapter if wish to continue using it.
        Wild Bill Rides Again...

      • #236714

        About half our systems (desktops) are dual boot now: Win 7 and Ubuntu (or Mint).  For the last 4 years we use Linux 99.9% of the time.  Heck, for the last couple years the only time we boot Windows is to run updates – then it’s back to Linux.  The other half of our systems (desktops and servers) are Linux only.

        Chrome is nice for desktops & relatively trouble free – but I can’t commit to it because I’d just be trading Windows’ aggressive telemetry/tracking system for Google’s.

        The last laptop I purchased included an option to have Ubuntu pre-installed instead of windows.  Selecting that option dropped the price  – which acted as an incentive to select a better 6 core CPU over the default 4 core.


        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #236724

        In our shop, our workflows have historically relied on a few Windows-only applications.  However, Windows 10 has brought way too much uncertainty.  We are now at the point where switching 100% to Linux and completely changing our apps and workflows is the LEAST painful and less risky to us.  I am amazed that (for us) things have come to this.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #236727
        AskWoody Lounger

        I’ve enjoyed the process of customizing and building my desktop PC for years. But I’m not going to build a laptop, and finding a quality Windows laptop that isn’t loaded down with bloatware or some cheap components has gotten tougher. All the well-known laptop brands seem to have a lot of really unhappy customers–as in 20%+ in online reviews.

        For any other committed Windows dinosaurs who want to find the kind of laptop Patch Lady is talking about, check out Eluktronics ( No I have no connection to them other than as a happy customer. Their laptops are not cheap. They don’t try to compete on price with all the other brands you know–that’s a feature, not a bug–because the margins are too small at $500. Their laptops start at just over $1000, and the kind Susan is talking about with Win 10 Pro, a big SSD, and lots of RAM will probably be at least $1500, but their laptops are well worth it. Their customers including me love the results. They don’t cut corners on components, and at least as of the last laptop I bought from them two years ago, added no bloatware. Tricked out like this, they perform as well as a new bloatware-free desktop. Eluk builds to order in the US and ships direct in a few days and will support if needed, but it probably won’t be necessary.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #236732
        AskWoody Plus

        I`m old school.  Acer desk top  with modem only.  No problems.  With the Chromebook i’d have to get a new wireless printer and router.  I use a connected cheapo $25 HP printer, good enough for me.

      • #236747
        AskWoody Lounger

        I should also add to my comments above, I can’t agree with Patch Lady more:  if you want to be happy, an SSD with plenty of storage space (as opposed to any disk-based hard drive), and as much RAM as you can afford are good upgrade values and will give you a PC that runs rings around cheaper solutions and is fast enough to last through years of upgrade cycles. Even if money is tight, Just Don’t try to cut corners on those two hardware elements, because the bang-for-the-buck is high on these features and will make you happy two or three years down the road, not just six months.

        Also be sure to plan an (at least) daily onsite backup and (at least) monthly offsite backup strategy–and more often if losing that much data would cause a serious recovery problem for you. All hard drives, SSDs or disk, will eventually fail, and any onsite backup or cloud-only solution is vulnerable to a number of disasters.

        Also if you’re going to use Win 10, pay for Pro if you have to in order to get it, because it gives you much better control over the upgrade cycle than Win 10 Home. As Woody and Patch Lady keep reminding us, Win 10 Home users have signed on for the Civil War equivalent of cannon fodder duty. You don’t want to be that volunteer.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #237382
          AskWoody MVP

          be sure to plan an (at least) daily onsite backup and (at least) monthly offsite backup strategy–and more often if losing that much data would cause a serious recovery problem for you.

          At least daily? Do you honestly think that most people are going to do backups every day?

          I assume you mean a daily incremental backup and a monthly full backup.

          Where will you store all of these backups? And how long will you retain the backups? You’ll need a huge amount of storage space for all of that.

          I apologize for throwing cold water on the idea of doing daily backups; I’m just trying to ask some relevant questions that aren’t often asked.

          In my last job, we backed up about 200 servers every night. We did incremental backups every night except for Fridays, when we did Level 7 backups. We did full backups once a month. That was only for the Windows and Linux data. For SQL databases and for Exchange, we did full backups every night.

          We had a huge room in which we stored all of the backup tapes – yes, tape. You can store a whole lot more for the money on a tape than on any other media.

          The once a month full backups of everything were retained FOREVER. We recycled all other tapes every three months.
          Not very many people will need to do all that I have listed above. But everyone should do some sort of backups regularly, so that they can recover in the event of data loss.

          The best way I have ever thought of for doing backups is to keep your data on a separate drive. Then do nightly / weekly / monthly backups of your data – whatever you are comfortable with, and whatever you can get yourself to actually do. If you have Word, Excel, etc. set to do automatic saves to a separate drive of whatever you are working on, and if you do IMAP email, you can probably recover most things. In that case, a monthly backup of your data should be sufficient. Best of all, you can probably get yourself to actually do a backup once a month; whereas if you tried to do a daily backup, you would quickly run out of steam and would quit doing backups altogether. Also, you won’t need as much storage space for your backups.

          As long as your data is kept on a separate hard drive, you don’t need a daily, or even a monthly, backup of your main hard drive. Every few months will be sufficient. All you are trying to accomplish with this backup is the ability to get back up and running. A backup that is a few months old will accomplish this. Again, you can probably get yourself to actually do this, and you won’t need so much room if that’s the only backups you are doing.

          Group "L" (Linux Mint)
          with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
          • #237389
            Chris B
            AskWoody Plus

            I think you can get reasonably close. I am a home user with 2 PCs. I run Acronis True Image on both, backing up to a NAS. On my main machine, I run a daily incremental backup of all my data areas using Acronis’s version chain automated system, so it is all automated, as is the housekeeping of deleting old backups. Monthly I run an incremental backup of the full system, again using the version chain. On my wife’s machine I use a similar system, but with less frequency. I then backup the NAS manually once a month to an external disc stored in a fireproof safe. It all works well with little intervention by me.

            The only thing I don’t do often enough is to check the backups, but then, life is short.


            Win 10 Pro x64 Group A

      • #236773

        More people are moving away from Windows to Linux, and MAC. Plus other OS seems to be rising as well like Reactos that has seen more usage in the last few months.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #236797
          AskWoody MVP

          More than what?

          Windows 10 Pro version 21H2 build 19044.1149 + Microsoft 365 (group ASAP)

      • #236779
        AskWoody MVP

        Hey Y’all,

        Ok, I’m going to take the position of a Dell apoligist (slings and arrows expected).

        I’ve been using Dell computers for years w/o issue. I currently have 5 running at the house.

        Dell Inspiron 530 (oldest of the bunch) purchased 2/11/2008 I used it as my main machine till 7/15/2013.

        I then gave it to my brother and just recently got it back. He had upgraded it to Win 10 Home and it ran fine but slow. I put an AData 940Gb SSD in it and it was now an acceptable Win 10 machine. I’ve since loaded it with Linux Mint Cinnamon and it could now almost be called a screemer! I had it maxed out on memory (4 Gb) when I gave it to my brother.

        Dell XPS8700 7/15/2013. This came pretty well loaded with 12 Gb and a 1Tb spinner but of course I eventally installed a SanDisk 240Gb Extreme SSD as the boot device and moved the spinner to secondary storage eventually replacing the spinner with a  SanDisk Ultra II 960GB SSD and used this as my main machine until 8/5/2017. I continue to use this as my Win 10 upgrade it NOW machine, e.g. Test Machine.

        Dell XPS8920 8/5/2017. Again this came with tons of memory 16Gb and a 1tb spinner. I immediately installed two Samsung 850 Pro 256Gb SSDs. Since I’ve added a 960 Evo 960 NvMe M.2 drive as the boot device. Couldn’t initially get it to boot from this device, one of the main reasons I upgraded, but a subsequent BIOS update fixed the problem.

        Note: Both of the XPSes have received BIOS updates to address the Spectre/Meltdown issues!

        I’ve never had problem one with any of the machines that I haven’t caused…the reason I’m so religious about Image Backups!

        I also have a Dell Inspiron 1564 Laptop 4/15/2010 15-430M 4Gb again replaced the spinner it came with with an SSD. This is a dual boot Win7 HP & Win 10 Pro Insider machine. Yes it’s a bit slow but not bad. The only issues I’ve had with this machine is the builtin camera failed. Easily fixed with a USB Logitech replacement. The external charger brick also failed also easily fixed with a non-Dell replacement. I’ve even dropped this machine and cracked the plastic at one corner of the screen but the screen still works flawlessly. This machine was my travel machine. It’s been all over the US in our RV and Car with out a problem.

        My wife is currently using an Inspiron 13 7000, i5-5200U CPU, 4Gb, Samsung SSD 850 EVO 250GB (installed by me) Win 10 Home purchased 5/13/15.

        FYI: the wife bangs on her computer almost as much as me, heavy into geneology, photography, among other things.

        When I buy Dell machines I never pay for Ram upgrades or SSDs. I can get them cheaper doing it myself and I’ve never had a problem even with the laptops and the Wife’s is one of those slim things with not much space to work.

        I’ve had other Dells in the past and always sold them off to recoup some of my investment, although as you can see I buy up the chain and hold on to them for litterally years.

        I’ve built a machine or two in the early years, think IBM XT/ATs, but there is no way I can compete with Dell’s prices and I’d still have to build it myself and be responsible for dropping that screw and shorting out the whole works. Ain’t getting any younger and the combination of fat fingers and failing eye sight doesn’t lend itself well to the task.

        Well Y’all that’s my 2 cents worth on the topic.

        May the Forces of good computing be with you!


        PowerShell & VBA Rule!
        Computer Specs

        3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #236805

        I use a good amount of Lenovo’s, some Dells and Asus. In the past, Asus was much higher than others in reliability for many years according to PC Mag for what it’s worth so I recommended them for cheaper laptops and continued the practice, although I never myself buy cheap laptops. Dell XPS, Lenovo T series and X series, always with an SSD and the other recommendations of Patch Lady. I would avoid HP cheap laptops. Those computers lasted for years and still do. They don’t run slow at all, in fact my tweaked 8.1 laptops are probably much faster than bloat ridden cheap laptops you can buy today, even with years almost without touching them after the initial install. Everything is auto updated or almost auto updated, all the time. Our setups ususally imply Office for Word and Excel, Thunderbird and Firefox. I get the occasional question about why does this weird update message appear (BIOS update for the Spectre/Meltdown pushed by Lenovo), but very low maintenance time in general, without any IT management tool.

        I think the question of the software and hardware you use is critical to the choice of an OS. For lots of installations, Windows, as awful as it has become, is still the only choice. For a Facebook machine, though, not at all. For someone who have not too much of a budget issue, Macs offer the best experience that is more typical of a stable desktop OS, with Microsoft Office (not as great as in Windows but usable) for those who really need it. For people that bought cheap laptops and regret Windows 10 for their Facebook machine, installing Linux for them can be a good solution. It all comes down to what you do with the computer. If you mainly consume content online and don’t organize files, a tablet might be great.

        I won’t comment on Chromebooks as I don’t know them, but to me the Google spy tax is too much to pay. Lots of people who don’t care about privacy might like them, though, but when I talk to people about choice, I just make sure they are at least aware of the privacy questions such a buy might imply, while also making sure they know about the new Microsoft.

        For those who had the money, I never heard any serious complaint about Apple users. They often fit even better than Windows users the definition of a user that doesn’t care about computers but just wants it to work well and get out of their way so they can do what they need to do with it. I especially appreciate Apple stance on privacy, even if you can wonder to which extent the commitment goes. It’s still refreshing to hear and certainly much better than Facebook privacy is overrated and for old people attitude and the new can’t trust Microsoft. Voting with your wallet is close to literal there.

        3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #237422
        AskWoody MVP

        A big advantage of buying a name brand PC is that years from now, if you need drivers or specs on your PC, it will all likely be right there on their website.

        Of course, you could get all of that stuff together when you first get the PC, and put it in a safe place, but hardly anyone ever does that.

        Group "L" (Linux Mint)
        with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
    Viewing 24 reply threads

    Please follow the -Lounge Rules- no personal attacks, no swearing, no politics or religion.

    Reply To: Patch Lady – what PC should I get?

    You can use BBCodes to format your content.
    Your account can't use Advanced BBCodes, they will be stripped before saving.