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  • Paul Thurrott on that fabulous new Win10 Start menu, currently in testing

    Home Forums AskWoody blog Paul Thurrott on that fabulous new Win10 Start menu, currently in testing

    • This topic has 26 replies, 17 voices, and was last updated 4 weeks ago.
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      • #2277177 Reply
        woody
        Da Boss

          Paul Thurrott nailed it again. Talking about the minor tweaks in the Start menu that were released yesterday in the beta Fast Ring, er, Insider
        [See the full post at: Paul Thurrott on that fabulous new Win10 Start menu, currently in testing]

        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2277179 Reply
        agoldhammer
        AskWoody Plus

        Do people really use the Start menu all that much?  I have the main programs pinned to the task bar and everything else that I regularly use as desktop icons.  I use the Start menu maybe once a week, if that.

        • #2277186 Reply
          BobT
          AskWoody Lounger

          Yes. I even still use Classic Shell.

          Depends how many programs you have! If you do nothing but web browse & use office, of course you can pin a few.

          If you have several programming environments, diagnostics packages, settings tweaking apps, games etc, good luck pinning all that or having a clean desktop!

          I have my Start Menu set up like good old XP. Start > Programs, then folders categorised by use:

          Security Tools (Antivirus / malware, scanners, cleaners etc)
          DVD Tools
          Backup Tools
          Design Tools (Photoshop, etc)
          Diagnostic Tools (Temperature monitors,
          Webcam Tools
          Printer Tools
          Microsoft Office
          Programming Tools
          Misc Programs
          Games

          and so on.

          People probably don’t use the Start Menu nowadays because it’s a disorganised mess, that requires searching for absolutely everything, and knowing the exact name of the program that you’re looking for.

          Once again, mobile-based “app” menus & interface styles spoiling everything else.

          5 users thanked author for this post.
          • #2277291 Reply
            Ascaris
            AskWoody_MVP

            Yes. I even still use Classic Shell.

            I have my Start Menu set up like good old XP. Start > Programs, then folders categorised by use:

            At first, when I read that line, I thought of when I used XP (which was over ten years!), but then, I remembered that not everyone switched the menu to Classic style in XP.  The unnecessary removal of the Classic start menu was why I moved to Classic Shell back when I first migrated to Windows 7.  I kept using it when I moved to 8.1, and its successor, Open Shell, is on my Windows 10 setups, even though I don’t use them for anything other than testing purposes.

            In my main OS, KDE Neon, I still use the closest thing to the Classic start menu, which for me is the KDE Application Menu (not the default Kickoff menu, but it is included with the base install).  It has the same cascading flyout menus that worked so well for me from 1995-2015.  I have too much stuff to have much patience for trying to scroll a menu constrained to a small corner of the screen!

            I don’t always use the menu. Sometimes I just type the first few letters and grab it from the search results. It’s nice to have both.

            Group "L" (KDE Neon User Edition 5.19.4).

            1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #2277464 Reply
              BobT
              AskWoody Lounger

              It’s nice to have both.

              This is exactly what Microsoft needs to get through their heads. STOP removing functionality. Instead offer a default environment, then let users choose the rest.

              I still use W7 with Classic Shell, and also used it on W10. My work productivity increased substantially with having everything categorised. However anytime someone else sat with me at my desk & used the start menu, (or just if I felt like it, too!) all I had to do was middle-click the button and up popped the default menu, where I could type-search like everyone else.

              Best of both worlds!

              Now if Classic Shell can offer that, why can’t Microsoft?

              • This reply was modified 1 month ago by BobT.
              3 users thanked author for this post.
              • #2277768 Reply
                Ascaris
                AskWoody_MVP

                Now if Classic Shell can offer that, why can’t Microsoft?

                I think a clue can be found in the removal of the classic start menu from Windows 7. When MS announced it was to be removed, lots of people asked them to keep it as an option, but MS told them that the classic start menu was more than a dozen years old, and it was time to move on.

                That’s the wrong attitude.  It’s not time to move on if your customers still want it!  You should be listening to them, not telling them to move on.  Clearly, the classic start menu looked like the one in the by-then antiquated Windows 95, and MS didn’t want their new OS associated with something so uncool and dated. Branding!

                Concern over branding is the same reason MS tried to block aftermarket Windows themes by requiring a MS signature on each one (the ones that used the compositor, aka “Aero” themes, even though many had no transparency effects).  It’s necessary to install a service to patch the theming DLLs in memory, or to patch them on the disk (only has to be done once), to install custom themes. At least MS chose to let that be rather than act to break the signature breakers.

                MS doesn’t want to give people the best of both worlds or allow flexibility in things like the start menu because they want to use your PC to “model” Windows for others.  Even if it is your PC, it has to look like Windows, whatever that means at the moment, in order to comply with their branding efforts, and if that means forcing a theme with an intolerably bright background that can’t be changed or removing the start menu that you want to use (but that looks outdated, in Microsoft’s view), they’re more than willing.

                The trend of MS using Windows to serve their own interests directly clearly did not start with 10.

                 

                Group "L" (KDE Neon User Edition 5.19.4).

                2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #2277338 Reply
          Chris Greaves
          AskWoody Plus

          I have ***nothing*** on my desktop.

          I have Nine items on my taskbar.

          I have Seven items on the Start menu.

           

          Mind you, I am blessed, for I am for the next few days, still using Win7HP.

          Cheers

          Chris

          Untitled

          "Almost works" means it doesn’t work.

          Attachments:
        • #2277344 Reply
          anonymous
          Guest

          I never use my desktop. The Start menu in Windows 10 is my go-to whenever I need to launch a program. I only keep Chrome and File Explorer pinned to my taskbar; everything else is accessed from the Start menu so it stays out of sight and is still there when I need it.

          For me, I’m liking the change, because the coloured tiles are honestly a little jarring and haven’t aged well. Also, the inconsistencies with the coloured tiles grinds my gears a lot.

      • #2277227 Reply
        woody
        Da Boss

        I’m also blown away by the fanboi reaction to the Windows CoolSwitch – Alt+Tab – now cycling through tabs in Chredge.

        Be still my beating heart. These are two of the new features we can expect in 2021.

        • #2277471 Reply
          doriel
          AskWoody Lounger

          CTRL+TAB is working well for me at this moment. Sorry I missed this topic and created nearly similar in the rant forum. (another useful feature which everybody needed)

          I found that at bleepingcomputer.com today

          Dell Latitude E6530, Intel Core i5 @ 2.6 GHz, 4GB RAM, W10 1809 Enterprise

          HAL3000, AMD Athlon 200GE @ 3,4 GHz, 8GB RAM, Fedora 29

          • #2277482 Reply
            woody
            Da Boss

            Who needs this stuff? Who needs this “functionality” and shiny new coat, when there are far more important issues?

      • #2277234 Reply
        Cybertooth
        AskWoody Plus

        Seems like the biggest difference is that the icons (in both panels) are no longer enveloped in  blue squares. It looks less garish to me.

        Still, the tile panel on the right continues to take up too much screen space, and the redesigned Start menu still lacks the useful (and more discreet) right panel of the Vista/7 Start menu.

        OpenShell or StartIsBack have nothing to fear on my Win10 systems.

         

        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2277253 Reply
        lurks about
        AskWoody Lounger

        About the only difference I could tell is the new color scheme might be easier on older eyes. Something that should be an option already in the themes and should have been there from the start.

        • #2279343 Reply
          rc primak
          AskWoody_MVP

          No, it’s not easier. The font is smaller and much less readable. And I am not all THAT old.

          -- rc primak

      • #2277270 Reply
        Bill C.
        AskWoody Plus

        At my first glance I thought it looked very similar to my wife’s Linux Mint 18 Mate desktop start menu on her laptop. However when I enlarged the image I noticed it was just the Mate default coloring of the tiles.

        I like a combination of pinned to the taskbar, a start menu (as in Win7), and now the docks that I use in Linux Mint 19.3 Cinnamon.

        I do prefer it over its Win10 predecessor, but it is not enough to draw me into the Win10 universe.

        • #2279344 Reply
          rc primak
          AskWoody_MVP

          Based on your brief depiction, thanks for saving me the trouble of trying MATE in Linux. This sort of thing is why I stick with mainstream Ubuntu and suffer through the default Gnome3-Wayland Desktop Environment. At least I know I can customize the standard DE for myself. Definitely worth the effort vs. suffering through someone else’s idea of what DE elements I *should* like.

          -- rc primak

          • This reply was modified 4 weeks ago by rc primak.
      • #2277333 Reply
        lanceboil
        AskWoody Lounger

        I have a pair of those older eyes and I think the before version looks much better to me, not to mention lots easier on these old eyes as well.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #2279347 Reply
          rc primak
          AskWoody_MVP

          Agree totally. Even better would be to ditch the whole Frankenstein’s Monster-Desktop altogether.

          -- rc primak

          1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2277343 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        Just like the Apple device colour changes, its the change you have when you don’t have much else to change.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2277349 Reply
        DRW
        AskWoody Lounger

        Do people really use the Start menu all that much?  I have the main programs pinned to the task bar and everything else that I regularly use as desktop icons.  I use the Start menu maybe once a week, if that.

        Well, I transitioned over from Mac, so I tend to keep my desktop clean and use this for programs I don’t use every day.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2277350 Reply
        OscarCP
        AskWoody Plus

        Some people just can’t appreciate truly disruptive, earth-shaking, breakthrough innovation, that’s all.

        Way to go, MS!

        Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group W (ex B) & macOS + Linux (Mint)

        5 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2277372 Reply
        numike
        AskWoody Lounger

        I use classic shell start menu

        https://sourceforge.net/projects/classicshell/

      • #2277379 Reply
        Cee Arr
        AskWoody Plus

        I’m in the same situation as “lanceboil” (fabulous name) – old mid 70s eyes.  I like contrast. It appears to me to be another useless unproductive change by MS staff who have nothing better to do.   MS aren’t the only culprits in this “lets change something ” scenairo. What happened to “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix (change ) it!?

        4 users thanked author for this post.
        • #2279350 Reply
          rc primak
          AskWoody_MVP

          And then there are all these “Dark Themes” everyone is pushing these days. I can’t use them at all. But I’ve read that young gamers love them and won’t “settle” for anything else. So I guess it’s the old guard slowly fading away.

          -- rc primak

          • #2279390 Reply
            Cybertooth
            AskWoody Plus

            We understand dark themes to mean light-colored text on a dark background. Bearing that in mind, I haven’t used a “dark theme” since the last time I turned off the amber monitor on my MS-DOS machine back around 1995.

            Typing black text on a light background in MS Word immediately felt more natural. Don’t know about others, but in school I didn’t type white letters onto black paper.

             

            • #2279393 Reply
              Alex5723
              AskWoody Plus

              Dark themes are meant to conserve batteries on mobile, laptops…. devices.

      • #2277443 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        OK, so I shouldn’t be worried about my seeing, I thought I was the only one not noticing any changes.

      • #2277469 Reply
        BobT
        AskWoody Lounger

        WHAT, I’ve just seen what they’ve actually changed…

        WHY do they keep going for this low-contrast “everything looks the same” look nowadays? With identifiable graphics & icons being replaced by “line” based versions that you can’t differentiate from eachother.

        This goes against everything I ever learned in User Interface Design. Is it another mobile-focused thing? Can’t have actual “buttons” on touchscreens now, can we, since fat fingers just need to pat a random splodge of pixels..

        But I’M NOT USING A ********* TOUCHSCREEN, I’M ON A PC. WHY CAN’T I HAVE MY PC WORK LIKE A PC?
        (Well, I can, since I’m staying on 7 for now. Still though, arrrrrrrrrrrgh!)

        • This reply was modified 1 month ago by BobT.
        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #2279351 Reply
          rc primak
          AskWoody_MVP

          In a word, YOUTH. Gamers specifically. They’re the ones driving these UI and theming changes.

          -- rc primak

      • #2278759 Reply
        EP
        AskWoody_MVP

        not sure if I like that new Win10 start menu interface though

        unrelated but Mr. Thurrott has this recent article of MS EVP Peggy Johnson leaving Microsoft:
        https://www.thurrott.com/microsoft/237515/peggy-johnson-is-leaving-microsoft

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