Reinstalling Windows – Performance Gains

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Hey Y’all,

Happy New Year!

Around this time every year you hear all kinds of “Typing Heads” (they aren’t talking are they) espousing the benefits of reinstalling Windows and all of your applications to reap performance gains. What I’d like to know is does anyone have Actual DATA to support this perennial admonition?

Inquiring Minds want to know…and so do I BTW!

 

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
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Just antidotal evidence.  My main home Lenovo laptop would always hang/be slow in using rdp. I finally bit the bullet/reinstalled clean and it’s a much speedier process.  It slowed down after a feature release a few versions ago.  Also the hard drive is much cleaner.  I don’t want to do the EVERY year, but there are times that your machine finally tells you it’s time to start over.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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Dual booting and drive imaging make that a simple question, but the answer is not quite as simple.

In a word, no.  But there’s a couple of “if” parts involved.  If one keeps up with routine maintenance such as disk cleanup (Cleanmgr.exe), disk fragmentation/trim, uninstalling no longer used or needed programs/apps, the performance reducers don’t accumulate.  Run sfc /scannow when its use isn’t indicated.  I have Revo Uninstaller Pro and it has an excellent “Junk Files Cleaner” that will scan every drive/partition on your PC and delete what you select.

I have, in the past, compared a fresh installation on one side of my dual boot to a regularly-maintained multiple-upgraded installation on the other side, with no discernible difference.  Having determined no difference in performance, I restored my regular installation.

@RetiredGeek this is something you can do for yourself fairly easily, being a practitioner of drive imaging.  If you can temporarily free up a drive bay and a drive, create a dual boot and see.  Nothing tells the tail better than using the same hardware to perform tests such as these.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We were all once "Average Users". We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems, we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

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RetiredGeek, RockE

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IMO the largest benefit is by not reinstalling most apps, only the ones that are useful to you now.  Don’t install it until you need it.  One nice thing about this is it makes the Start Menu short to scroll through.  Another option is to do a clean install and dump the OEM’s bloatware.   Use a Windows ISO, not the recovery disk that came with it.

I found no benchmarks of the same operating system before and after a reinstall.  I didn’t even find anyone testing before and after removing bloatware.  A well done test made into a website or a video might be popular.  -BB

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wavy

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Reinstalling an operating system, applications, and reloading all pertinent files is a time-consuming process. In my opinion, it is the option of last resort when all else has failed to correct a recurring, persistent problem and no other recourse is available.

On permanent hiatus {with backup and coffee}
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geekdom wrote:

In my opinion, it is the option of last resort when all else has failed to correct a recurring, persistent problem and no other recourse is available.

If one has developed methods and habits for a good drive imaging regimen, reinstall is unnecessary.  I recovered from a house fire with protected drive images for two PC’s.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We were all once "Average Users". We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems, we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

Computer Specs

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Do you do daily drive images? If not, do you have another backup to restore recently updated files? In my business once a week or once a day backups/images don’t suffice.

Never Say Never

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I create monthly images and daily file backups. The only thing I am likely to lose is a recent Windows update or new program and they are easy to reinstall.

If you find daily backups are not sufficient you could consider a NAS with snapshots and save / duplicate data to it.

cheers, Paul

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cyberSAR wrote:

Do you do daily drive images?

Weekly, with the exception mentioned in my first signature line.

cyberSAR wrote:

If not, do you have another backup to restore recently updated files?

Indeed.  Task Scheduler copies my data daily to three local locations, one being my NAS.  OneDrive keeps up admirably with files being updated, and also distributes them to my NAS (which gives me three copies).  Between Task Scheduler, OneDrive and my NAS, I’m covered and completely up-to-date.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We were all once "Average Users". We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems, we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

Computer Specs

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Gamers especially value the added performance for clean installing Windows OS every ~6 months. Many others do so too.
Clean install removes all temp files, creates a clean/lean registry, removes bloat accumulated, software not used for long, and the users usually re-install only currently needed software.

https://www.howtogeek.com/168528/htg-explains-do-you-really-need-to-regularly-reinstall-windows/

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From the linked article: “The main reason people reinstall Windows is that it slows down over time. But why do Windows systems slow down over time?”

…..

“In other words, the leading cause of a Windows system slowing down over time is installing junk software.”

bbearren wrote:

I have, in the past, compared a fresh installation on one side of my dual boot to a regularly-maintained multiple-upgraded installation on the other side, with no discernible difference.

Having been there, done that and collected the T-shirt, I’ve found the “necessity” of reinstalling Windows periodically is just an old wives’ tale.

Alex5723 wrote:

… creates a clean/lean registry …

Another old wives’ tale.  Windows uses a binary search of the registry (it is a database, after all), and the registry would have to double in size to increase that binary search by one iteration.  The way regedit.exe works is entirely different and unrelated to the way the registry is actually used by Windows.  It still baffles me that registry snake-oil remains a thing.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We were all once "Average Users". We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems, we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

Computer Specs

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wavy

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HNY to you and yours RG..
On my W10 test device it’s just too much time and hassle from scratch versus using the most recent Feature Update build image post installation with drivers and activated.
I nuke the primary partition, re-image and apply the newest CU on 8.1/10 tweak and adjust (although I like to C&P GPedit settings from a backup for quickness)
I know it’s clean and see no defining reason to start from scratch…whether quicker or not??
Note secondary partition is only used only for portable apps/utils etc.. which makes things faaaaar easier keeping installations to a minimum.

No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT- AE

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Two cases that show a noticeable improvement from uninstalls or clean installing Windows.  First – a computer was unusably slow, some tasks like opening a browser would take literally 60 seconds.  It had an expired version of Norton antivirus installed, but no viruses.  After uninstalling Norton, the computer worked as normal.

Second – a computer had been upgraded from a previous Windows to Windows 7.  Sometimes the machine would blue screen.  Sometimes printed documents would not print.  Cleanly installing Windows fixed everything.

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I’ve never had to reinstall or reset Windows, but I did have to do it a couple years ago with an Android phone. It maybe ran slightly faster after the factory reset, but a few days in the performance gains weren’t there anymore.

So if resetting Android doesn’t speed it up, I don’t see why Windows (or any other modern operating system) would be any different.

If I wanted my Windows machine to see some performance gains, I’d upgrade the hard drive to an SSD, rather than waste my time reinstalling Windows. Alternatively (and I am not joking when I say this), I could just restart the machine, since I usually just hibernate it rather than shutting it down. Last time I used it, it had an uptime of 40 days before I restarted it. After a restart, performance had improved a bit.

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Myself I have so little data it’s insignificant and hardware so old it’s WHQL so I just bag an ISO and make a recovery media with the main versions.

Thus all this generally refers to reinstalling, not fixing, repairing.. starting from bare metal..

That said despite their defined lifetime, SSDs offer a real boost to almost any machine with a platters based drive- investigate if the BIOS on and old crate had UEFI and RAID capabilities as a sensible system can be made using a couple of SSDs “too small to be useful” or “just big enough for an installation but older and slower” on an older platform which none the less can reach the specification the drives are best run at.

I found ACHI is a minimum, UEFI is much better (mainly the drivers “in firmware” pay ball from the moment setup starts so there is seldom any massive gain in installing newer mass storage drivers from that start, and the display drivers mean you can see the desktop properly to sort things out, and these are updated via BIOS updates also), and in clanky old RAID implementations the RAID1 versus RAID0 differences may be the opposite of what sense dictates so in the unlikely event you’re using two bargain basement SSDs to just get enough space for a slick install copy of Windows to work, it’s worth trying both.. a machine same hardware, BIOS based RAID, with 2x30GB as RAOD0 is actually significantly faster than same with a 2x60Gb RAID1, the SSDs are even the same manufacturer and series.. 30s and latterly 60s were available.. the only difference is the latter RAID1 machine has a (technically OK and on a par in interface speed) mechanical drive as well which makes me wonder if that is somehow upsetting things.. so what I’m saying here is be prepared to tinker and try new configurations when reinstalling. That of course reveals a good backup of your data files, software installers, licensing and email/internet credentials is key, as you would expect.

BIOS updates. It would seem prudent to do this before reinstalling to help Windows setup optimise the install for any changes made by an update. Any takers as to if that’s worth the effort?

The recent fiddling whereby the servicing stack update had to be prised from the cumulative update and installed before the update itself is a bit of a new thing so I haven’t tried that yet as basically my PC hasn’t broken (yet). Microsoft indicate the method on the cumulative update pages but have changed the update, it was use the package in the cumulative update in March (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/march-29-2021-kb5000842-os-builds-19041-906-and-19042-906-preview-1a58a276-6a0a-47a5-aa7d-97af2d10b16d) and in December you need the package from August (https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/topic/december-14-2021-kb5008212-os-builds-19041-1415-19042-1415-19043-1415-and-19044-1415-b46200db-74c3-450e-b200-51013957312a) but they don’t even offer a SSU pack for 21H2 on ADV990001 but August for supported versions below that so I’m thinking 21H2 just doesn’t need a SSU presently? They could make that clearer, maybe? Is that “performance”? – well in the long term as it cuts the chances of something nasty getting in while you update defender and get the rest of the updates on line, and of you’ve performed the command offline with DISM you can specify the \scratchdir target to another drive completely (which can be the one you have the update downloaded to..) to cut down on temporary rubbish and fragmentation on the Windows drive if you haven’t the luxury of a SSD, so the base install is at least that bit less messy to start with. The last thing you needs is large fragments (defrag won’t move) of a large update cluttering up the Windows drive. Maybe if reinstalling you care to see if and how it works (or doesn’t) and let the world know?

Nasty and technologically incorrect suggestion: Windows won’t let me use the GUI disk defragmenting on a SSD / RAID (and TRIM isn’t supported as the firmware predates SSDs). I can still use the command prompt version – it will help if the install is old and messy and you have just lightened it with disk clean-up, though of course excessive use will wear the SSD so I did it once after I finished setting up and tidying up, and after one particularly dopey version upgrade and clean up (may have been 190? to 2004..). You probably won’t read that anywhere else. Wouldn’t undertake it lightly but in the case given the file system was OK but really messy and it was that or reinstall. That said, that done it’s still a hell of a lot faster than the UEFI on single spinning drive installation it replaced.

Finally don’t overlook the initial use of DISM to strip the superfluous apps out of the install having uninstalled the irrelevant applications from add remove programs and disabled Windows features you might not need (pipe result of dism /online /Get-ProvisionedAppxPackages to a file, pick the packages you want (not everything!) and use dism /online /Remove-ProvisionedAppxPackage PackageName – if you want to do a lot, use find and replace in notepad and remove those to keep.. but if you go too far you may need to reinstall. For some reason two attempts are needed to successfully remove some items though. Zune, for one, does that.)

for fresh installations I would suggest enabling the real administrator, and doing the setting up and configuring off line from there, before removing the account created out of box and creating a new one (less junk), and before setting a secure password on the administrator account to make any exploit that bit less likely, and finally disabling the local administrator account (net user methodologies in all cases.) as enabling that usually passwordless account for a “local attack” can be achieved with a bit flip if an attacker can get to the SAM file of the installation and replace it with a modified copy (which is probably one of many reasons Microsoft et al are trying to make bitlocker the norm. I’m not bothered about pointing that out now Serious Sam is in the open.). Remember to log out of all accounts and into the new “clean” account before removing or disabling the others to avoid a “lock out” if you are at all unsure of what you are doing!

You can customise the start to get rid of the “hot tiles” which will reinvoke the installers of  various other items, but it’s a bit of a pain involving editing \Users\Default\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows\Shell\DefaultLayouts.xml  in preparation for creation of the final account, and it doesn’t really affect performance so you can google that if you want it.. I found no safe way of tidying the files they use.

 

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oldguy wrote:

Windows won’t let me use the GUI disk defragmenting on a SSD / RAID (and TRIM isn’t supported as the firmware predates SSDs)

TRIM is not a firmware thing, it’s a Windows thing – W7 and above. Have you tested TRIM via TRIMchk?

You don’t need to defrag an SSD, Windows will do it for you if required.

cheers, Paul

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Trimchk – I don’t have that util and I can’t see a site I would normally get it from – could you indicate a legitimate source?

Due to the age of the hardware it’s supported by the motherboard’s RAID BIOS in UEFI. Obtaining  a digital entitlement licence (using 21H2) involved making a Windows 7 PE, using that booted AHCI from the hard disk (boot partition 3GB to accommodate it, default MSR, Windows, no recovery) to run Windows 7 setup (after manually repartitioning with the right partition geometry) to get around Windows 7 refusing to install from DVD as its setup couldn’t be convinced the RAID was a bootable drive. From there Windows 10 was simple. Rather than do that again I have a FFU image..

For completeness, the attachment is what defrag indicates. I’m not expecting any sort of fix. It works fine and the SSDs I’m using are old stock OCZ ones which cost less as an upgrade than some people spend on a decent keyboard (been using them three years or so).

That’s why I’m wondering why the beef about the non booting dell M2 drives (post https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/custom-modify-bios-in-dell-optiplex-to-boot-from-nvme-m-2/) when you could change the platters drive to a SATA SSD and I suspect it’ll work pretty well though if it’s similar to the models I worked on in the same form factor a RAID (assuming BIOS support) would necessitate some creative mounting solutions and a sata power splitter.  That said they’re a cheap PC, but while the old heap grinds on and when Windows 10 reaches the end I’ll probably look to something similar to these with 11.. I’m certainly not a power user. ( https://cpc.farnell.com/dell/7010sff-i33220-8-250/pc-i3-3220-8gb-250gb-hdd-w10p/dp/SB07776)

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See How to Check if TRIM Is Enabled for Your SSD (and Enable It if It Isn’t) (howtogeek.com)

--Joe

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oldguy

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well, there you have it! (attachment shows a result!). Thanks.

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An indication that TRIM is enabled is not a check that TRIM works.

See this post for a full description and link to the Github TRIMchk page.
https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/ssd-life-new-question/#post-1532492

cheers, Paul

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oldguy wrote:

Nasty and technologically incorrect suggestion: Windows won’t let me use the GUI disk defragmenting on a SSD / RAID (and TRIM isn’t supported as the firmware predates SSDs)

Windows 10 runs scheduled reTrim on SSDs.

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