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  • Repeated Modem & Router Failures

    Posted on Kathy Stevens Comment on the AskWoody Lounge

    Home Forums AskWoody support Windows Windows 10 Questions: Win10 Repeated Modem & Router Failures

    • This topic has 27 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 2 months ago.
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      • #2312061
        Kathy Stevens
        AskWoody Lounger

        Over the last two months we have experienced repeated modem and router failures.

        The equipment involved includes:

        ARRIS Surfboard SB8200 modem,

        ASUS Wireless – AC31100 Dual Band Gigabyte router, and

        NETGEAR AC1750 Modem Router

        All of the equipment is less than two years old.

        All of the computers connected to the routers are running Windows 10 and in most cases Version 1909.

        The ARRIS modem and ASUS router have failed and cannot be reset by pressing in their reset and/or WPS buttons.

        In the case of the NETGEAR AC1750 Modem Router we are able to make ethernet connections but have been unable to set up the wireless component. In this case it is probably a matter of sorting through the jungle of wireless setup options.

        All of the modems are connected by coaxial cable directly to our internet service provider.

        In all cases the modems and routers are plugged into a CyberPower 685 AVR battery supported uninterruptible power supply.

        In each case the router/modem failures followed power outages and a switch to backup generator supplied electricity. The power failures have been occurring repeatedly, sometimes two or three times a day, and effecting over 900 of our neighbors.

        Moving forward, the uninterruptible power supply will be teamed with a Tripp Lite ISOBAR2-6 1410 Joules Isobar Surge Suppressor.

        I would appreciate any thoughts on how to recover the ARRIS Surfboard SB8200 modem and/or ASUS Wireless – AC31100 Dual Band Gigabyte router. Are their problems simply power related or could the equipment been attacked by malware or viruses?

        Any thoughts on how to set up the NETGEAR AC1750 Modem Router’s Wi-Fi feature.

        Fortunately, our practice is to have backup equipment on the shelf so that we do not experience an interruption of business.

        Thanks for your help.

      • #2312066
        cyberSAR
        AskWoody Plus

        Kathy, I would suggest you get a qualified electrician to check your system, especially the grounding. Way too many failures in such a short time. Also your coax should be grounded. Living where I do, I deal with power outages often and sometimes for months, so I feel your frustrations.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #2312070
          Kathy Stevens
          AskWoody Lounger

          @cybersar

          Thanks for getting back.

          I do not think that our problem is related to defective grounding of the electrical system serving our facility. It has been tested and shown to be okay.

          In addition, all of our equipment’s power is fed through a Tripp Lite ISOBAR and/or CyberPower uninterruptible power supply. And all of the indicator lights on the power filters are properly lit.

          Good idea to ground the coax! I will do that through our existing CyberPower 685 AVR battery supported uninterruptible power supply.

          I would focus more on power surges if our outages were associated with thunderstorms. But all the outages occurred during periods of rain that were not accompanied by lightning and/or thunder.

          Our outages are more likely equipment related failures. When the power goes out, we are seeing that the same number (905) of the utilities customers being affected. Normally, with storm and tree related outages the number of customers impacted will vary from a few neighbors to several hundred – but never the the exact same number repeatedly as has been occurring lately.

          Thanks again

          • #2312085
            CADesertRat
            AskWoody Plus

            I would focus more on power surges if our outages were associated with thunderstorms. But all the outages occurred during periods of rain that were not accompanied by lightning and/or thunder.

            Unfortunately power surges can happen whether there is lightning or not. A few years ago on a clear day out here in the desert, we had a surge due to the power company. The surge toasted my (at the time) APC UPS so it didn’t get any further towards my router, computer etc.

            Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does 🙂
            4 Win 10 Pro at 1909 (3 Desktops, 1 Laptop).

            2 users thanked author for this post.
            • #2312338
              Kathy Stevens
              AskWoody Lounger

              CADesertRat

              Thanks for getting back.

              I am afraid that like yours, a power surge from within our power distribution company – one of our clients – was the culprit.

              I just downloaded and installed the most recent version of CyberPower’s POWERPANEL and it indicates that are UPS is working normally.

              Do you recommend replacing the UPS?

              Or is it sufficient to put a triplet surge suppressor ahead of the UPS?

              • #2312353
                CADesertRat
                AskWoody Plus

                Kathy,

                On my old APC UPS, it got fried and wouldn’t work at all after the surge. APC wouldn’t replace the new UPS when it died so I went to CyberPower. I now have CyberPower units on each computer with the PowerPanel installed on all.

                If your CyberPower unit shows that it is functioning normally then I would guess that it’s ok. I have model CP1350AVRLCD’s which have never had a problem other than replacing the battery’s.

                On mine, I can run a self test. Is that available on your model?

                Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does 🙂
                4 Win 10 Pro at 1909 (3 Desktops, 1 Laptop).

                1 user thanked author for this post.
              • #2312542
                Kathy Stevens
                AskWoody Lounger

                The units in question are supplied through a CyberPower 685 AVR battery backup and Power Panel shows that the unit is working normally.

                 

          • #2312104
            cyberSAR
            AskWoody Plus

            Do you get a brief dimming/flickering of lights when something like your A/C kicks on? It could be a neutral/ground defect on the utility company’s side. I’ve seen it before. I’ve also noticed some electricians are shaky on ground/neutral wiring. Had an electrician once tell me “Not totally sure how this stuff works, it’s freaky”.

            Also your coax should be grounded where it comes into the residence/business into your ground rod.

            2 users thanked author for this post.
            • #2312339
              Kathy Stevens
              AskWoody Lounger

              cyberSAR

              Thanks for getting back.

              No, we do not get dimming or flickering of lights when the A/C or other high demand power drains – such as are well pump – kicks in.

          • #2312309
            wavy
            AskWoody Plus

            When the power goes out, we are seeing that the same number (905) of the utilities customers being affected

            Bad step down transformer serving a cluster maybe ?

            And it takes a VERY competent engineer with the right equipment to see flakey grounding (neutral/ return line as well). How big is your facility? Are the others that are having the problem big facilities?

            BTW online ups would be the best way to go, though several times as expensive but maybe worth it, if you are having problems

            🍻

            Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.
            1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #2312342
              Kathy Stevens
              AskWoody Lounger

              @wavy

              Thanks for getting back.

              We are in 1800 ft.² standalone facility in a semi-rural residential/commercial neighborhood.

              The step-down transformer serving us is on the telephone pole one house down from ours.

              The 900 other utility customers that are experiencing frequent outages are primarily residential.

              • #2312366
                wavy
                AskWoody Plus

                Probably not big enough to worry about weird multiple ground points. And I see cyberSAR already gave that answer, this weird threaded forum style can be treacherous in that regard. 😉
                That step down comment was just a guess as I was looking for a common point of failure. A GOOD electrician or maybe a utility tech might have an idea if directed towards that source. My condo had an undiagnosed problem for many years because of a neutral line problem. It only became evident as a ‘grounding’ problem when we realized the return was going through the ground rather than the neutral as designed after a flood in our equipment room. We are lucky the first one one the sight is still alive. The first ConEd tech/electrician ‘thought’ we had a grounding problem, out own electrician ‘thought’ so too but needed special equipment to be sure. Con ED (our utility) ran an above ground neutral line from the transformer to our utility room and that stood for a half year until Con ED finally came when the ground was not frozen solid. They managed to ‘correct’ the problem but said “we are not sure what we did” to fix it.
                After the above ground line cured problems we had been having for years: GFI triggering for ‘no reason’, dimming dimmable lamps, and my microwave exhaust fan spontaneously turning on.

                I do wish you the best of luck with your problem.

                🍻

                Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.
                1 user thanked author for this post.
              • #2312545
                Kathy Stevens
                AskWoody Lounger

                We have tested our system and the plug supplying power to our backup power supply feeding the computer, modem, and router, and establish that the neutral line is not the problem.

        • #2312549
          NetDef
          AskWoody_MVP

          When the network stack dies like this, it’s almost always a return ground loop through the ethernet cables.

          Some other piece of equipment is improperly or weakly grounded, using the network cable as an easier ground return back into the router.  I’ve seen this so many times.

          The part that will fool you is the self diagnostic light on your surge protectors is likely showing that you’re fine . . .

          Another cause is a split ground in the building wiring . . .

          ~ Group "Weekend" ~

          2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #2312578
            wavy
            AskWoody Plus

            A neutral line problem with the current routed though the ground return. Again not something easy to diagnose or locate the exact fault.

            🍻

            Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.
      • #2312088
        alphacharlie
        AskWoody Plus

        A few weeks ago, I learned that there is a device called a Whole House surge protector, also called  Home Electronics Protective Device (HEPD).  The one I installed (next to my breaker box on the outside of the house) is made by Schneider Electric and rated 80 kA.  I see today that it is priced $108 at Amazon vs. $73 at Home Depot.

        I have no way to tell if my equipment is better protected than before, and I still have surge strips and surge protected outlets.  But I figured it might be a little extra insurance.  If the green light ever goes out, the HEPD must be replaced.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2312092
        DrBonzo
        AskWoody Plus

        By all means get a whole house surge protector and get a qualified electrician to check things out.

        But if you and 900 other neighbors experience 2 to 3 power outages per day, something is wrong with the entire grid infrastructure in your neighborhood. You and your neighbors need to get your power company out there. I would be amazed if they didn’t know it was happening, but unless it’s some kind of strategy to, for example, prevent forest fires, they need to fix it.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2312105
        PaulK
        AskWoody Lounger

        You MAY be able to get some help from the fora at https://www.dslreports.com/forums/all . About half way down the page, right column, is a Section: “Hardware By Brand”. Select your Brand. There is a Search box at the right end of the Topic-header panel. One need not have an account to read anything . But a free account (which is to the entire DslReports site) is required in order to Post.

        While you are on the [linked] page, note that one can look at discussions on one’s ISP too – and on many other topics.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2312159
        anonymous
        Guest

        ? says:

        i feel your pain, K.S. i;m currently in a new build home area at the end of the line where the backhoe digs up the juice and fiber on a regular basis. i suppose a battery backup would help retain settings but i don’t know how to keep the internet going when the fiber is severed. quite a pain with everything running through wi fi. the ring has been spinning white for a while and can’t reset it since the iphone with the control panel is 900 miles away until thanksgiving…

      • #2312195
        Paul T
        AskWoody MVP

        As you have both the modem and router fail at the same time I suspect your UPS is defective. It is a “line interactive” meaning it only provides power after the mains has failed. If the delay in providing power is too long it may upset your electronics.

        I always recommend an “online” UPS for difficult sites or corporates.
        The CyberPower OL1000RTXL2U is an example.

        cheers, Paul

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #2312539
          Kathy Stevens
          AskWoody Lounger

          Paul T

          We have not experienced  modem and router failures at the same time.  We have simply had ongoing power outages, sometimes two or three a day, but the equipment is failing at separate times.

      • #2312266
        anonymous
        Guest

        This higher frequency of power cycling still is a primary cause of early demise for most any appliance as it stresses all the components, starting with the power supplies.

        Are you able to find and try out new power adapters for the ASUS and Arris devices? Not always, but if you certainly smell an acrid metallic odor from the modem, router, original power adapters these may be fried.

        Is it total failure, do you see any blinking lights on the modem or router?

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #2312541
          Kathy Stevens
          AskWoody Lounger

          I will try new power supplies but I do not think they are the problem.

          The modems/routers appear to be receiving power but have ceased to function.

          Pressing the reset buttons have no impact.

      • #2312344
        Kathy Stevens
        AskWoody Lounger

        Alphacharlie

        Several years ago we installed a “whole house surge protector” at our electric panel.

        It burned out a year or so after installation.

        At this point we install Tripp Lite ISOBARs on the plugs of all outlets that feed sensitive electronics.

         

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #2312371
          cyberSAR
          AskWoody Plus

          Several years ago we installed a “whole house surge protector” at our electric panel.

          It burned out a year or so after installation.

          Big clue or coincidence?

          I ran 2 or 3 months on a cheap portable generator a few years back due to a storm. Ran electronics, washer, dryer, window A/Cs, refrigerators and freezers, microwave, well pump (not all at same time of course). Electronics (TVs, stereo, and 4-6 computers) had UPS, nothing else did. Didn’t lose a thing.

          EDIT: Just thought of something else. You say it occurs during rain storms. Could be a ground failure due to moisture.

          • This reply was modified 2 months ago by cyberSAR.
          1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2312409
        Paul T
        AskWoody MVP

        Could be a ground failure due to moisture.

        That wouldn’t stop both devices working as the ground is protective, not operative, and those devices tend to have external power supplies that do not provide ground to the device.

        cheers, Paul

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #2312558
          cyberSAR
          AskWoody Plus

          But she’s running on gen power not ups. Plus the ups should be picking up a ground through the elec system wiring. Your UPS is only as reliable as your grounding system.

          • This reply was modified 2 months ago by cyberSAR.
      • #2312546
        Kathy Stevens
        AskWoody Lounger

        At this point, I think our least cost option is to simply hold back up modems and routers in inventory and bring them out in the event of a failure.

        We will supply them through Tripp-Lite Isobar Surge Protectors.

        Tripp-Lite stands behind their products and over the years has replaced other electronics that have been damaged due to power surges at no cost to us.

         

        • #2312676
          Paul T
          AskWoody MVP

          You have power sag, not surge.
          Are you able to put the units on a temporary online UPS for a week or two – hire a UPS?

          cheers, Paul

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