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  • Revisited: How to update an old copy of Win7

    Home Forums AskWoody blog Revisited: How to update an old copy of Win7

    This topic contains 67 replies, has 21 voices, and was last updated by  anonymous 3 months, 3 weeks ago.

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    • #168851 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      Kevin Beaumont just tweeted: https://twitter.com/GossiTheDog/status/965908161101271040 Barry Dorrans replied with a reference to this advice from @Swi
      [See the full post at: Revisited: How to update an old copy of Win7]

      3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #168859 Reply

      MrJimPhelps
      AskWoody MVP

      I have a sneaky suspicion we’re going to see lots of Win7 (re-)installs this year.

      Keep up with your backups. I advise people to backup Windows once every one or two months, and backup their data more regularly than that.

      Group "L" (Linux Mint)
      with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
      6 users thanked author for this post.
      • #168925 Reply

        Noel Carboni
        AskWoody MVP

        I run System Image backups every night on my Windows systems.

        I wonder how many folks know System Image backups are actually incremental (via the Volume SnapShot subsystem aka VSS) and pretty unobtrusive when done regularly.

        And that when you opt to restore (e.g., out of the WinRE bootup environment) a System Image backup, you’re given a choice of restoring any of the incremental backups all the way back to the last full backup that it did, limited by backup disk space.

        And that you can use any of those backups as a System Restore point or to retrieve files using the Previous Versions feature.

        Windows 7 (and others sporting VSS) are quite sophisticated. The VSS subsystem is an under-appreciated professional feature.

        And, speaking of older versions people might want to keep running… Incremental System Image backups can be invoked on a schedule from Win 8.1 as well, even though Microsoft removed the backup scheduling GUI (a bad move IMO; they claim it’s because only a few tens of millions of people use it). The command line I run on Win 8.1, to back up my critical partitions (e.g., the system volume) to my external permanently connected USB MyBook G: drive, is:

        wbadmin start backup -allCritical -vssFull -quiet -backupTarget:G:\
        

        Now and again, depending on the available space on your backup media, a regular System Image backup will re-do a full image backup, then afterward it starts depositing incremental snapshots again. For me, with a 2 TB system drive and 3 TB backup media it’s about once a month. When that happens it runs longer (in my case about 10 hours – still doable overnight). The incrementals only take an hour or less.

        There are even free 3rd party tools for accessing files in System Image snapshots (e.g., for restoral), such as Z-VSSCopy.

        Maybe this kind of thing is only something a geek could love, but it really works.

        System Image backups are now considered “deprecated” since Windows 8.1. Tell me again why I should want Windows 10? Microsoft has been removing valuable features, because presumably it’s better to have people feel less secure about their computing environments than to teach them to use them better. Insecurity locks people in. Definitely not the “Star Trek” future we envisioned; more like “Idiocracy”.

        -Noel

        12 users thanked author for this post.
        • #168942 Reply

          MrJimPhelps
          AskWoody MVP

          I don’t use System Image Backup for two reasons:

          1. It’s hard to understand how to use it properly.

          2. You can’t do a restore unless Windows is already installed. Or at least that’s how I have always perceived it.

          I believe you when you say that it is a good, effective way to backup your system. But Microsoft does a woefully inadequate job of explaining how to use it, and that’s why I think more IT people don’t use it.

          Group "L" (Linux Mint)
          with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
          • #169047 Reply

            Noel Carboni
            AskWoody MVP

            You can indeed install a System Image backup to bare metal after having booted up the system from the Windows CD. I replaced a workstation that way once. Power on the replacement hardware, plug in the USB backup drive, then boom – up and running with the familiar, productive environment in just a few hours. Windows needed activation, but it was functional in the interim and Microsoft had procedures to follow to activate (basically, I just had to explain that I had restored a backup to replacement hardware).

            -Noel

          • #169068 Reply

            OscarCP
            AskWoody Lounger

            And I do not use disk image backups because my machine refuses to burn disks (see my full posting, several down from here.)

            I am still hoping that someone might have a helpful suggestion, or two, about how to solve this worrying problem.

            With my heart-felt thanks to those who might try to help.

            • #169077 Reply

              Ascaris
              AskWoody MVP

              The size of hard drives has outpaced available optical storage so much that I don’t consider any burnable discs to really be a viable option for backups anymore.  An external USB hard drive will do the job… I have a few of these that I use periodically for redundant backups, but my main day to day backups are done on my “NAS” (really just a PC that has a lot of hard drives in it attached to my network).

               

              1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #169128 Reply

              OscarCP
              AskWoody Lounger

              Ascaris,

              I do back up my Win PC data, but not the whole system, to an external disk.

              The Mac has a nicer system that makes automatic incremental back ups, called “Time Machine”. For that I do use a 4 TB disk pack, a Seagate Backup Plus, which is actually quite small, smaller that a smartphone, and was not all that expensive when I bought it, some months ago — so plenty of storage can be had these days quite easily, as you have pointed out. At the present rate, I estimate it will take the better part of ten years to fill it up.

            • #169132 Reply

              anonymous

              @ OscarCP

              Windows System Restore Tool works similarly as MacOS’s TimeMachine and Linux’s Timeshift.

              To restore an unbootable Win 7 system using the System Restore Tool, boot the Win 7 Repair Disc/CD or Win 7 Install DVD/USB or Win PE Restore CD and access the System Restore points stored on the internal hard-drive through Advanced options.

              1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #169089 Reply

              anonymous

              @oscarcp

              Macrium Reflect Free and Acronis True Image allow you to store a Win 7 System Image on a USB Flashdrive.
              ___ Remember to also create a Win PE Restore CD which will be needed to restore the System Image to the borked computer system.

              Win 8.1/10 have a built-in Tool to create a Recovery USB Flashdrive which can also contain a Factory System Image.

              1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #169125 Reply

              OscarCP
              AskWoody Lounger

              Anonymous: Thanks for the advice and tips.

              However:

              ” Remember to also create a Win PE Restore CD which will be needed to restore the System Image to the borked computer system.”

              Can that be done, instead, on a flash drive or an external hard disk?

              Because ‘writing CDs’ is another name for ‘writing disks’, which my machine doesn’t want to do anymore. It has decided it is beneath its own dignity, or something.

            • #169130 Reply

              anonymous

              @ OscarCP

              AFAIK, it is possible. First, use a Disk partitioning Tool to create 2 partitions on the USB Flashdrive, ie the 1st partition = about 1GB for the burning/writing of the Win PE Restore ISO, and a 2nd partition = about 20GB for storing a Win 7 System Image.

              Or use 2 USB Flashdrives, ie one small one for the Win PE Restore ISO and another bigger one for the Win 7 System Image.

              1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #169306 Reply

              OscarCP
              AskWoody Lounger

              Anonymous,

              Thanks for the advice. Does one have to do anything different to prepare the machine for the eventual use of a USB flash drive, instead of a DVD?

              Elly, Thanks for trying to help, but I must confess to being a really boring old guy that does not play computer games. My PC is a games-free desert, I’m afraid.

              Canadian Tech, the PC in question is a laptop, and I am really squeamish when it comes to performing major and, perhaps, dangerous surgery on anything, particularly if it is not clear that it is the indicated treatment for the disease. And, most particularly, when it is not even clear just what the disease might be. Besides, I might go along with one DVD drive failing. But two at the same time, the built-in and an external one?

               

              • This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by  OscarCP.
              1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #169429 Reply

              anonymous

              @ OscarCP

              You can use the Imgburn program to burn the Win PE Restore ISO file on the DVD and make it bootable.
              Similarly, you can use the Universal USB Installer or Rufus or Etcher to burn/write the Win PE Restore ISO file on the USB Flashdrive and make it bootable.

              1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #169206 Reply

              Canadian Tech
              AskWoody MVP

              CD/DVD drives are one of the most common failure points in PCs. In desktop PCs, the solution is usually quite simple. Replacement drives are about $20 and very easy to install. In laptops, the problem is more expensive because the drive is a proprietary part.

              CT

            • #169265 Reply

              Elly
              AskWoody MVP

              Hello OscarCP,

              It could be that your CD/DVD disk drive is broken… but…

              Something to check out… older games that used SecurROM DRM protection disabled CD/DVD drives, on purpose, to stop attempts to pirate them. If you, or someone else on your computer, were using an older game like that, it doesn’t uninstall without completely uninstalling any games that use it, and then using a special tool, https://support.securom.com/removaltool.html

              If that is on your system, it will break any replacement CD/DVD disk drives that are installed… they will play disks, but you will not be able to burn anything, until the tedious steps to remove SecuROM are followed. Playing the disk with SecuROM on it will immediately reinstall it again. I managed to use an external drive without problems.

              My kids loved The Sims 2…but EA Games deliberately destroyed the ability to burn anything to disk… They didn’t reimburse anyone for destroying the ability to use their CD/DVD drive… or even admit it at the time… and I was less techy then than I am now… It took endless hours of my time to problem solve, and I blamed myself, until I found out about the SecuROM. It is from that experience (techy types will laugh at the Sims games) that a lot of the outrage I have about Microsoft trying to take over my computer sparked from… and I’ve had plenty of time to work through these corporate malware issues… and the bad actors have grown from there… It is probably more profitable to produce and sell malware, than to try and sneak it onto a system…  There may be other DRM ‘protections’ that interfere, not really knowledgeable about that, but it may be a place to look for unexplained problems.

               

              Win 7 Home, 64 bit, Group B

              2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #168975 Reply

          Microfix
          AskWoody MVP

          Yup, System Image Backups are the number 1 thing to do once patched up and programs installed. Once a month (pre-patch Tuesday) is a nice comfort/ re-assuring data point to have.

          In W7 I’ve encountered past issues where the image backup (on a second primary drive) has saved a lot of time, effort and care from being lost! (and all work files are also on the second primary drive so, nothing was lost, all work files still intact separate from the system image taken)

          Never had to use it in W8.1 yet, albeit the process of restoring an image is a bit more querkier than W7. I think this to be a more secure technological advancement in W8.1

          | 2x Group A W8.1 | Group A+ Linux Hybrid | Group A W7 | Group W XP Pro |
            No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT - AE
        • #169026 Reply

          Jan K.
          AskWoody Lounger

          Have a faint recollection of a failing System Image restore and haven’t had faith in it since… must have used Acronis for the past decade or more.

          And don’t really have much faith in incremental backups either…

    • #168860 Reply

      WildBill
      AskWoody Lounger

      Love the turtle (tortoise?) pic… Windows 7 may be slow updating after 4 years, but it should update. It will be stable when it’s finally running, too. Shortcuts are fine if you can’t wait another day… or 3… or more?

      Wild Bill Rides Again...

    • #168863 Reply

      PKCano
      AskWoody MVP

      There used to be a link to the “speedup” website on the “Links” list on the right – it’s not there anymore. That had the latest wua and servicing stack listed.

      As best I can remember:
      Win7————————-Win8.1
      KB3020369—————–KB3021910
      KB3138612—————–KB3173424
      KB3177467—————–KB3172614
      KB3172605

      • This reply was modified 3 months, 4 weeks ago by  PKCano.
      • This reply was modified 3 months, 4 weeks ago by  PKCano.
      • This reply was modified 3 months, 4 weeks ago by  PKCano.
      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #168873 Reply

      VulturEMaN
      AskWoody Lounger
      1. Navigate to http://wu.krelay.de/en/ and scroll down to ‘Solution to the issue’
      2. Download KB3177467 for the machine’s architecture
      3. Download and install KB3172605
      4. Reboot (do it!)
      5. Check for updates – it should take about 2-10 minutes
      6. Only check the following:
        1. IE11
        2. Whatever .NET 4.x full package it offers you (likely KB3102433 for 4.6.1)
        3. KB976932 (Win7 SP1 finalization from windows updates – usually about 9mb)
        4. KB890830 (malicious software removal tool)
      7. Reboot again
      8. Patch Normally after that
      • This reply was modified 3 months, 4 weeks ago by  VulturEMaN. Reason: fixed formatting
      • This reply was modified 3 months, 4 weeks ago by  VulturEMaN.
      4 users thanked author for this post.
    • #168877 Reply

      PKCano
      AskWoody MVP

      These are my most recent recommendations for a fresh install of Win7. For Win8.1, the pre-install offline patches should change to KB3173424 and KB3172614. The telemetry patches to avoid are listed in AKB2000003.

      Recommendations for a fresh install of Win7.

      4 users thanked author for this post.
    • #168881 Reply

      anonymous

      I think the difference in advice is due to the convenience rollup (KB3125574: Security and non-security fixes since the release of W7 SP1) that was released shortly after Swift on Security’s instruction that addressed the Windows Update Client problems.

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #168885 Reply

      anonymous

      woody you said “I have a sneaky suspicion we’re going to see lots of Win7 (re-)installs this year.”
      Why?
      why do you think there be lots of w7 re-instalation and this year 2018?
      Something bad coming down the pipe???
      Thanks 🙂

      If serious enough I wont hasitate to disconnect for the whole year
      or get ready to switch to FULL Linux-only onwards forever

      If we never learn from the past – there is no future

      back to fishing for better dreams

      • #168894 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        In Jan and Feb, Microsoft has issued some really bad updates, affecting all versions of Win, but particularly Win10. It has been difficult for the average User, but particularly so for Enterprise where continual functionality is a must. Beta testing by the public is not acceptable.

        People, even in Enterprise, are starting to throw up their hands and say “I’m going back to Win7.”

        8 users thanked author for this post.
        • #168934 Reply

          Noel Carboni
          AskWoody MVP

          Not to mention the seriously significant number of people (literally hundreds of millions worldwide) who are continuing to keep an older version of Windows running, still waiting for better Windows 10 dreams.

          That reminds me, it’s probably about time to make a new System Recovery disc (USB) for each of my hardware systems running Windows 7 and 8.1.

          -Noel

          4 users thanked author for this post.
          • #168943 Reply

            MrJimPhelps
            AskWoody MVP

            So Noel, how is your evaluation of Linux coming?

            Group "L" (Linux Mint)
            with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
            • #169048 Reply

              Noel Carboni
              AskWoody MVP

              Still staged in the starting blocks. I will get to it, i will get to it…

              -Noel

              1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #169183 Reply

              MrJimPhelps
              AskWoody MVP

              Once you do, you will wonder why you waited so long.

              Group "L" (Linux Mint)
              with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
      • #168923 Reply

        Geo
        AskWoody Lounger

        It`s because 7  is simple to use for the basic customer compared to 10.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #168900 Reply

      MrBrian
      AskWoody MVP

      The @SwiftOnSecurity advice from April 2016 is outdated.

      3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #168913 Reply

        MrBrian
        AskWoody MVP

        Two of the updates in the @SwiftOnSecurity advice are older Windows Update clients than KB3172605 contains; see Windows Update Agent Build Numbers for Windows 7. As far as I know, what one currently needs for good enough update speed is a new enough Servicing Stack Update, and a new enough Windows Update client. See http://wu.krelay.de/en/ for recommendations for each.

        • This reply was modified 3 months, 4 weeks ago by  MrBrian.
        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #168914 Reply

        woody
        Da Boss

        Yep. I should probably drop Kevin a line and tell him.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #168901 Reply

      Canadian Tech
      AskWoody MVP

      As a supporter of roughly 150 client Win7 machines, I do this quite often. I have created a detailed step by step for my own use and will share.

      Before I list it, I must discuss the question of updating post December 2014, September 2016 and post May 2017.

      MS ended all development work on Windows 7, December, 2014. All updates, other than security are therefore highly questionable since they are 99% likely to include updates that significantly change your Win7 OS in ways that you would not choose, if you had a choice. At the same time, they fired the quality control staff in Windows Update. The result has been an ever worsening parade of defective updates, sometimes rendering PCs useless. Even MS published descriptions of individual updates has become worthless.

      October 2016 was the beginning of the rollups that include all manner of guck, much of which you would refuse to use, if you knew what was in it or had a choice.

      PKcano authored AKB2000003. which provides direct links to “Security only” updates from October 2016 onwards.

      June 2017, MS issued the first instance of fixing a defective “security only” patch as part of roll-up, thereby making Security Only patching a highly questionable practice.

      In my practice, I recommended, with the full support of my clients, that we discontinue using Microsoft updating from June 2017 onwards. Our conclusion is that the risk of MS making a mess of our computers was far greater than the risk we undertake by NOT applying the security patches embedded in rollups. I must tell you that from June 2017 onwards, we have not experienced a single instance of any kind of a problem. In fact, demand for my assistance has fallen off by at least 50%.

      New Hard Drive

      -The hard drive has failed. You will have to replace it. Replace with a 500 G or more rotating 7200rpm drive. 500G drives can be found for around $70. Typically quite easy to replace. Now you will need a complete Windows 7 install.
      -I do this all the time. I have done hundreds. This is likely to take an elapsed time of around 12 hours.
      -First go to your computer’s OEM support site and find and download the drivers for your computer and store them on a USB stick.
      -From this point onward, I am providing you with the process to install Windows 7.
      -You may be able to take your data off first. Remove the failing hard drive and put it into a USB external drive housing. Connect to a working PC, copy the data off. You may need a friend to do this part for you, but the rest is not really very technical or difficult for most people.
      Install the new hard drive.
      -Do not do any formatting or partitioning.
      -If you made a set of disks for recovery or an image copy at the time your computer was new. This is the time you need them.
      -Start your computer on the first of the disks as instructed and in an hour or so, your computer will look exactly as it did then.
      -If you do not have that set of disks. You will need a legal reusable Microsoft Product Key. You will need a Windows 7 install disk. The win7 disk must match the edition of your product key, and its bitness (32 or 64). If you do not have the original Windows 7 install disk, borrow one from a friend. Hopefully, the disk you use will be labeled SP1 (Service Pack 1), because that will save you an additional 4 hours or so.
      -Place the Windows 7 install disk in the disk reader and start your computer.
      -Once the install process is started, choose CUSTOM. Ignore the check box about drivers, unless you can not proceed further.
      -When you get to the place where it asks you where to put the installation, click Advanced and delete all partitions.
      -When the installer asks about Windows update, choose Ask me later
      -Do NOT install any program
      -Reset Windows Update setting to Never…..
      -Hopefully, you started with a Win7 install disk that was SP1 (Service Pack 1). If not, run Windows Update until you get to the point that SP1 has installed itself as part of this procedure. It entails multiple Windows Update passes and restarts which you keep updating until you get there.
      -Once Windows 7 SP1 is installed, install the following:
      -KB3020369 Win-7 32 https://download.microsoft.com/download/C/0/8/C0823F43-BFE9-4147-9B0A-35769CBBE6B0/Windows6.1-KB3020369-x86.msu
      -Win-7 64 bit https://download.microsoft.com/download/5/D/0/5D0821EB-A92D-4CA2-9020-EC41D56B074F/Windows6.1-KB3020369-x64.msu
      -KB3138612 Win-7 32 bit, https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=51208
      -Win-7 64 bit,https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=51212
      -Open Windows Update, change Windows Update setting to Never check for updates
      -Do not install anything else at this point – NOTHING. Not even an antivirus program
      -Start the update process. It is likely to include about 200. It will take some time.
      -Install all offered security updates. Install .net, but do not install any updates that do not come pre-checked. Do not install any “Optional” updates.
      -Once you have a list of updates, you need to prevent certain specific updates from being installed.
      -Click once on each Windows Update that is NOT labeled SECURITY and check the date of issue on the right. If that date is after January 1, 2015, Right-click on it and hide.
      -ALL updates issued after September 2016 should be hidden as well
      -Click install updates and wait for it to finish. Restart when asked to do so.
      -After re-start is complete and you see a desktop, start Task manager – Right-click on task bar. Look at the % at the bottom. Do NOT attempt to use the computer for any purpose until you see that % fall to and stay at 10% or less. Windows Update is still working and has a lot of work to do.
      -Keep running Windows Update again and again till it offers no new ones.
      -Start Internet Explorer, click the gear (upper right) in IE11 and select Compatibility settings and enter Microsoft.com in the list
      -Start Windows Update and click the link to include updates for other Microsoft software.
      -Reset Windows Update setting to Never…
      -Run Windows Update again and again until you are satisfied you have all the updates you want.
      -Install security only updates from PKcano’s page for October 2016 through May 2017.
      -After the install is complete, check Device Manager. Type device in the text box above the start globe when you click it and choose Device manager from the list to find out if Win7 was able to supply the drivers you need. You should get drivers only from the maker of your computer or Intel. Its best to get all the drivers at this point. Win7 install may have installed all of them or nearly. Do NOT use any of those driver download sites. They are all bogus, have bad drivers, and install malware.
      -Install your Microsoft Office software and then run Windows Update again and again till no more are proposed.
      -Defragment your drive. Type defragment in the text box above the start globe when you click it once. Choose the Defragmentation link. Wait till it completes all passes..

      New install tip:

      After Windows 7, system drivers and all updates are installed and any stable applications like Microsoft Office are installed and updated, and before any data or dynamic applications are installed such as antivirus software, create a system image. It will take 3 or 6 DVD +Rs (not -Rs) and about an hour. When you are done you will have a very nice bit of insurance. Should you ever again need to re-build a corrupted system or replace a hard drive, you will have a precise duplicate of your system as it was at this point. You can restore that image to a hard drive in about 20 minutes. Creation of System Image is found in your menu under Maintenance, Backup and Restore.

      Another great feature about using the image is that you do not need an install disk or a product key to do the re-install the next time, and you will have saved yourself all the time you put in this time.

      I emphasize the need for PLUS R DVD blanks. Do not use the more common MINUS R DVD blanks.

      NOW, you can begin to install your programs, and not before this point.

      CT

      Total of 23 users thanked author for this post. Here are last 20 listed.
    • #168903 Reply

      zeuswoz
      AskWoody Lounger

      The last time (approx Aug17) I use a modified iso for Win7 installs. It includes all the security updates for the O/S already applied (up to Oct16). Then once the O/S is running (and with the required .NET versions installed), I use wsusoffline to patch .NET, Silverlight, etc to Oct16 patching level. From that point, WU for the rest.

      Rgds, Zeus

    • #168910 Reply

      geekdom
      AskWoody Lounger

      And Linux…

      Group G{ot backup} Win7|64-bit|SP1

    • #168902 Reply

      anonymous

      I have performed the complete repair of win7 install using my full win7 OEM installation DVD image last December, which is surely equal to the clean install of win7 in meaning of getting all or most of all updates then.

      Surprisingly that time there was no need to install two mentioned updates first to get access to further updates download/install. I just got a full list of applicable updates in a few minutes of the regular way updates’ check.  Also there were no any delays with downloading.

      It seems that m$ finally changed something in access to its win7 updating servers to better. At least that time in early December of 2017.

      rgds,

      • #168977 Reply

        anonymous

        @ anonymous #168902

        This likely means someone(M$ ?) had purposely slowed down Windows 7/8.1 Update in 2015 and 2016, in order to push Win 7/8.1 users onto Win 10.
        ___ During that time, those who had to clean reinstall Win 7/8.1 were greatly affected, eg Windows Update did not work. A few Windows experts, on their own, came up with fixes, eg KB3020369 and KB3172605.

        IIRC, I was running Win 7 SP1 from 2011 onwards, rejected the free upgrade offer to Win 10 from 29 July 2015 onwards and only began experiencing a problem with Windows Update(= stopped working) in April 2016 = as the GWX KB3035583 campaign by M$ got more aggressive and sneaky. Thereafter, I had to manually install important updates one-by-one from M$ Update Catalog.
        ___ Fed-up with M$, in Aug 2016, I forced myself to move to Linux Mint by learning how to dual-boot.

        IIRC, the slowdown and non-functioning of Windows 7/8.1 Update mysteriously disappeared in Feb 2017, ie soon after the implementation of monthly Patch Rollups by M$ in Oct 2016. At the same time, Windows Update started working normally again in my Win 7 SP1 laptop.

    • #168905 Reply

      anonymous

      Believing MS hype that Win10 would be “the last OS you’ll ever need”, I purchased a Toshiba Win10 laptop a mere 2 years ago.  The last Win10 version that successfully installed and is supported on this machine is 1607.  This version of Win 10 will no longer be supported soon and I can’t afford to keep buying a new machine every few years.  Seems like the best choice for me is to load my copy of Win 7 [yes it runs on this PC] and I can get a few more years of a supported OS without buying more hardware.  Maybe I’ll have other choices by the time Win 7 support is dropped.  Apple?  Linux?  Chromebook?  Who knows.  A frustrated senior consumer……

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #168967 Reply

        anonymous

        @ anonymous #168905

        Have you tried a clean install of Win 10 Version 1709 via M$’s website ? = directly download the Win 10 Version 1709 ISO file, burn it to a DVD/USB with Imgburn or Universal USB Installer/Rufus and do a clean install, ie no need to use M$’s Media Creation Tool.

        If you really could not upgrade your 2 years old Toshiba laptop higher than Win 10 Version 1607, this may mean M$ is beginning to make 3 to 4 years old OEM computers obsolete or no-longer-supported through hidden hardware/processor-blocking updates.

      • #168978 Reply

        MrJimPhelps
        AskWoody MVP

        Believing MS hype that Win10 would be “the last OS you’ll ever need”

        What Microsoft really meant was, “Windows will be the last OS you’ll ever need”. They add the “10” just to confuse the issue.

        Group "L" (Linux Mint)
        with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
      • #169239 Reply

        anonymous

        @ anonymous #168905

        I purchased a Toshiba Win10 laptop a mere 2 years ago.  The last Win10 version that successfully installed and is supported on this machine is 1607.  This version of Win 10 will no longer be supported soon

        Why do you say your laptop won’t get a newer version of Win10? I recall reading on zdnet.com last summer that PCs with certain models of Intel Atom won’t get anything after 1607 but they will continue to get security patches for several more years.

    • #168908 Reply

      anonymous

      The KB3102810 update no longer solves the problem. The combination of KB3020369 and KB3172605 has always done the trick for me but it has been a few months since I’ve done any Windows 7 installations, no thanks to Kaby Lake.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #168927 Reply

      Geo
      AskWoody Lounger

      Much to the chagrin of Leo Laporte, Steve Gibson kept running XP long after  the support  was ended.  He`ll probably do the same for Windows 7  giving advice after support ends.

      4 users thanked author for this post.
    • #168952 Reply

      abbodi86
      AskWoody MVP

      KB3138612 should be enough to get WU working properly, since they fixed the metadata supersedence chain from their side

      but KB3172605 is still recommended to prevent any unexpected issue or any newly broken supersedence chain

      4 users thanked author for this post.
    • #168963 Reply

      OscarCP
      AskWoody Lounger

      To create a recovery disk, one needs to be able to burn it. My problem with that, and it is my problem, is that the DVD burner no longer wants to burn: it gets right to the end of the procedure and then quits with the message that the DVD is either too fast or too slow for it to be used. And that with DVDs from the same brand and even the same pack that the drives had no problem burning DVDs in the past.

      This does not happen just with the built-in drive of the laptop, but also with an external one, so it looks like a software problem. These two peripherals have different software drivers, so the issue could be deeper than in those drivers.

      My PC is a laptop ca. 2011 running Win 7 Pro x64, SP1, with an I7 sandy bridge 4-core CPU.

      By the way: I wonder how is possible that the computer of the dog person’s girlfriend could be restarted after being off for four years. I have this idea, maybe a wrong one, that for that to happen a dedicated battery in the machine has to still be working in order to keep some “permanent” BIOS or some such non-volatile memory from, in fact, vanishing? If so, four years might be a bit too long for a battery never used in the interim to still be alive. But not impossible, I guess, just remarkable.

      • This reply was modified 3 months, 4 weeks ago by  OscarCP.
      • #169088 Reply

        Ascaris
        AskWoody MVP

        Can you not create a USB rescue flash drive?

      • #169173 Reply

        MrBrian
        AskWoody MVP

        What software are you using to burn DVDs? I use ImgBurn.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #169171 Reply

        anonymous

        @ OscarCP

        Which DVD-burning program did you use ? I have no problems using Imgburn.

        One time, I got the DVD-drive or burner/writer working again by just unplugging and replugging it from the laptop.

        For ISO burning, burn speed should be not more than 4X, to minimize burning errors. I use 2X, even though it takes longer to burn. DVD+R disc is preferable, ie not DVD-R or DVD-+RW. Be careful not to bend or scratch the DVD during handling.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #169214 Reply

          Canadian Tech
          AskWoody MVP

          Since Win7, I have never used a burn program. The Win7 built-in program has always performed flawlessly for me. The restriction for slower writing is mostly about the limitations of the PC, not the program or the disks.

          CT

        • #169294 Reply

          OscarCP
          AskWoody Lounger

          MrBrian, Anonymous and Canadian Tech:

          I use the DVD/CD burning software that came with Windows 7, not a third-party one; that software worked just fine, burning files on the same brand, make and speed of DVDs where it now refuses to do it, complaining that their speed is not right.

          And, as I’ve pointed out earlier, this happens with both the built-in CD/DVD/Blu Ray drive and with a CD/DVD external one, that has a different CODEC/driver from the built-in one.

          • This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by  OscarCP.
    • #168962 Reply

      anonymous

      Wouldn’t it make sense to install the latest version of the update that fixes the problem rather than installing an old version first?

      I just did a 7×64 clean install on a computer, installed KB3177467 then KB3172605, then the rest of the updates (minus the separate junk ones and disabling the junk in the latest cumulative update 2018-02). After the reboot from KB3172605 update detection speed was normal and download and install went as expected for the number of updates.

      KB3177467 (supersedes KB3020369)
      KB3172605 (supersedes KB3102810 & KB3138612?)

      • #168968 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        If you look at what got installed, I think you will find KB3138612 got installed anyway. Yes?

        • #169041 Reply

          anonymous

          Looking at it again, yes this update did install afterwards, which is very confusing because KB3172605 (among many other things) contains a newer windows update client.

          What does KB3138612 do when KB3172605 is already installed?
          KB3138612: “Nothing to do nothing to update, KB3138612 is now finished installing”

          • #169044 Reply

            PKCano
            AskWoody MVP

            Installing it as recommended  prevents the confusion.

            Been there, done that ssooooo many times.

            2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #169058 Reply

            abbodi86
            AskWoody MVP

            If KB3172605 is installed, KB3138612 is only needed to satisfy WU search result

            KB3138612 GDR branch / KB3172605 LDR branch

            1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #168969 Reply

      Microfix
      AskWoody MVP

      End Nov and beginning of December 2017, I followed AKB3172605

      Worked flawless for both 64bit and 32bit W7 on physical hardware (no VM’s)

      I skipped the Meltdown MS patches, as the performance trade off wasn’t worth it on my Haswell PC used for CAD /Graphic Design work. I then secured the FF ESR browser, installed noscript, configured the firewall, updated the AV and I’m taking greater care when browsing and download.

      YMMV..

      | 2x Group A W8.1 | Group A+ Linux Hybrid | Group A W7 | Group W XP Pro |
        No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT - AE
      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #169021 Reply

      anonymous

      Fly You Fools

      http://download.wsusoffline.net

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #169065 Reply

      SkipH
      AskWoody Lounger
    • #169090 Reply

      amraybt
      AskWoody Lounger

      @abbodi86 previously extracted the WU components from KB3172605 and KB3172614. IIRC the July 2016 rollups contained telemetry consent. There was also a big issue with KB3172605 and Intel bluetooth drivers on Windows 7 – Intel provided a fix here. I don’t recall if KB3172614 had such bluetooth or other issues.

      I found one of his posts here with more info and download links for the WU patch-only version of KB3172605, which may or may not still be active.

      https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/whats-the-latest-for-speeding-up-windows-7-scans/#post-30155

      I couldn’t find the links for abbodi86’s WU patch-only version of KB3172614, as 1.5 years of posts at MyDigitalLife were lost over a year ago.

      -- Lifelong member of Group B, currently on Group W sidelines --
      Win 7 Pro x64 desktop (Haswell CPU, AMD GPU)
      Win 8.1 Home/Basic x64 laptop (Haswell CPU, Nvidia GPU)

      • This reply was modified 3 months, 4 weeks ago by  amraybt.
      • This reply was modified 3 months, 4 weeks ago by  amraybt.
      • This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by  amraybt.
      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #169109 Reply

      anonymous

      After a clean install of Win 7 SP1 (circa 2011), the users will be presented with about 200+ important updates by Windows Update. It may be advisable to only download and install about 40 updates at a time, so as not to overload Windows Update or the computer.

      Bear in mind that Telemetry updates (hidden or unhidden, eg KB2952664) began in Nov 2015, monthly Patch Rollups began in Oct 2016 and Kabylake/Ryzen processor-blocking updates began in April 2017.

      • #169131 Reply

        abbodi86
        AskWoody MVP

        KB2952664 began in April 2014

        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #169212 Reply

        Canadian Tech
        AskWoody MVP

        I’ve seen that recommendation (install 40 at a time) many places. I have been using Windows Update on hundreds of client computers for years. I have never done that and I seriously doubt there is any good reason to do it.

        CT

        3 users thanked author for this post.

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