Rumors of a new, updated Coffee Lake chipset for Win7

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It isn’t like you’ll be able to install and update Win7 on a fancy new power-mad PC. But it’s looking more and more like Intel and Microsoft may come
[See the full post at: Rumors of a new, updated Coffee Lake chipset for Win7]

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SueW, Karlston, lmacri, Elly, Microfix, satrow, FakeNinja

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I’m planning to build a new computer in November and I was not looking forward to trying to install Windows 7 on it considering all the obstacles, but if this turns out to be true, that would be a miracle. Thanks for reporting this.

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PerthMike

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Is it really worth it for a matter of xx months on W7 until Jan 2020..then what?

I don’t think MS will call off the patching dogs, they are trying to trick, run down W7 users by hook or by crook for their market-share stats. And the patching woes continue..<sigh>

Keep IT Lean, Clean and Mean!

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Intel support forum had a couple questions about this with people wanting to upgrade. The support tech replied said neither Microsoft or Intel has any plans to support newer chips with Windows 7 as per their agreements to move forward with Win 10 support. The support person said this was written in stone and would not change. Probably some wishful thinking on someone’s part, but given Win 7 support ends Jan. 2020 why would Intel or Microsoft change their minds at this stage?

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RTEsysadmin

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Its good news, but not big news. Out of 150 client computers 2 years ago, every one a Win7 install, 2 have opted to buy (or should I say rent) Win10. I used to help my clients buy new PCs. We were buying about 35 new ones each year. I have not bought a new one in more than a year now. We are focusing on extending the life of our existing Win7 computers. For example, I have replaced over 20 hard drives as preventative maintenance so far this year.

I need to add here that we suspended all Microsoft updating May 2017. Adopted Chrome as our standard, Uninstalled Flash Player, Adobe Reader and Java, and run BitDefender antivirus +. And please note that these are non-enterprise installations.

The only value to this new offer, would be for clients who need to replace their PCs and still continue to refuse Win10. By my assessment, most of my clients have PCs in good enough shape to run another 5 years.

The big impact of this will be in the enterprise scene. There are tens of thousands of them that will not accept Win10 and will do something like we have done. This will enable them to continue that strategy for a long time to come.

CT

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lmacri, Kirsty, SueW, BobbyB, wdburt1, Microfix

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So MS does not want me to install W7 on any box I build. I have a very simple solution, install Linux on it. Intel or AMD gets money but MS does not and I have a box. MS loses as I will not use W10.

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bruce.chaser, Bill C., Ascaris, Cybertooth

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lurks about, that’s fine for a client who can/will use Linux. However, in my experience, those are few and far between. I have shown, at least for my kind of client, that using Win7 in its end state as I have defined it, is a perfectly viable platform.

CT

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Microfix

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By building my own box, I have to buy hardware from someone including a CPU chip. Thus the hardware manufacturers get my money. But since Linux is a viable option for me, I do not need to install any version of Windows on my new box. If I do not, for whatever reason, MS does not get any money. The underlying point is hardware makers will get money for any new box no matter what OS is installed (Mac, Chrome, Windows, Linux, etc.) but OS makers can only get money when someone buys a box with their OS or installs it on a box.

By alienating technically adept users (like many here at Askwoody.com), MS risks destroying the Windows brand and the eventually the Windows ecosystem. We can help the less adept to migrate away from Windows if necessary. With the rise of SaaS via the Cloud the underlying OS is much less important for many so the OS ecosystem is also less important. If the OS is not important for many then buying a new Windows box is often more a case of inertia.

A couple of days ago I was at Best Buys and wandered around the computer section. They had Chromebooks, Window boxes, and Macs for sale. I think Windows had the largest display (about half the total) with Macs and Chromebooks having about 25% each. So it is very easy for someone to walk into a retailer to buy a laptop and walk out with a Chromebook or Mac.

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Elly

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Not falling for this one. One reason…
CLOUD FIRST – WaaS (W10). Caesar said so.

I can not see Intel, AMD or any component manufacturer bucking Microsoft on this. Microsoft is the T-Rex in this alliance and the others are mere scavengers.

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Microfix

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How about Spectre/Meltdown?

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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AlexEiffel

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Good question! None of this is fixed at hardware level so why buy hardware that is going to slow W7 down due to Meltdown/ Spectre mitigations (and subsequent variations found or STILL to be found) and not have that much more of a system performance boost.

Have intel got excess stock they can’t shift? Wow the $ implications in loss. WinTel – I’ll scratch your back, if you scratch mine..

Keep IT Lean, Clean and Mean!

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Intel has repurposed some of their Xeon chip designs for the consumer (or pick a buzzword for the name) market by disabling of features meant for use in server hardware. They have also created obtuse configurations with certain chipsets, so making a weird new Coffee Lake chip would not be a difficult task.
Although rumors run rampant these days…

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The big open question is whether Microsoft plans to call off the patching dogs and let Win7 security patches go through on these updated chips.

from Woody’s article.
The pessimist in me says very probably not! M$ seems to have the attitude “Win 7 must Die” not really what I want nor many around here but then again when do they ever listen to us? but we live in hope maybe they may call a cease fire in their war of attrition on us devotees of Win 7.

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The trick is, in addition to allowing W7 updates, that all motherboard chips have W7 drivers. Not just for the chipset and the CPU built in graphics, but also for all MB peripheral chips like USB, LAN, audio, etc.

Hopefully it will also support W8.1, fingers crossed. I’m dreading replacing a couple of older friends’ 7 year old W7 PC’s with new ones running W10.

Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

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I don’t think this is a rumor anymore.

On the Gigabyte website, for example, if you choose to view the motherboards with the H310 chipset, you will see a number of “2.0” motherboards. For example :

H310M DS2V 2.0 : https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/H310M-DS2V-20-rev-10#kf

There is also the original H310M DS2V (rev 1.0) :
https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/H310M-DS2V-rev-10#kf

If you attempt to download drivers for the original motherboard, you will only see Windows 10 drivers available. But for the 2.0 motherboard, Windows 7 drivers, including chipset, LAN, audio and USB 3 drivers (but apparently not the CPU graphics drivers) are all available. So it is evident that these new 2.0 motherboards do support running Windows 7, using a supported discrete graphics card.

Of course, whether we can actually get them is another matter altogether.

Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst.

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lmacri

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I was able to get the Intel integrated graphics driver installed in 8.1 (with the configuration utility working perfectly) in a Kaby Lake gaming laptop.  I had to edit an .inf and temporarily disable driver signature enforcement, but that’s really pretty easy.  The hard part in getting a MS-unapproved PC running in 8.1 or 7 comes when the 10 driver truly won’t work with other versions of Windows (as with my Acer Swift laptop and the Intel I2C drivers).

Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/16GB & GTX1660ti, OpenSUSE Tumbleweed

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Karlston

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James Bond 007 wrote:

I don’t think this is a rumor anymore. On the Gigabyte website, for example, if you choose to view the motherboards with the H310 chipset, you will see a number of “2.0” motherboards. For example : H310M DS2V 2.0 : https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/H310M-DS2V-20-rev-10#kf There is also the original H310M DS2V (rev 1.0) : https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/H310M-DS2V-rev-10#kf If you attempt to download drivers for the original motherboard, you will only see Windows 10 drivers available. But for the 2.0 motherboard, Windows 7 drivers, including chipset, LAN, audio and USB 3 drivers (but apparently not the CPU graphics drivers) are all available. So it is evident that these new 2.0 motherboards do support running Windows 7, using a supported discrete graphics card. Of course, whether we can actually get them is another matter altogether.

Interesting. I looked at your  links. I downloaded the the BIOS flash utilities for the older Gigabyte H310M DS2V (rev. 1.0) motherboard, and for the newer Gigabyte H310M DS2V 2.0 (rev. 1.0) motherboard.

The older motherboard version only supports Windows 10.

The newer motherboard version supports both Windows 7 and Windows 10, yet apparently not Windows 8.1.

So, what is going on? First, the embedded microcode shows that that that that there are new CPUIDs. All CPUID codes are known. Second, the newer motherboard’s BIOS actually adds some older CPUIDs. Third, the newer motherboard’s BIOS actually reverts some drivers to earlier versions which are compatible with Windows 7.

You all read in between the lines, in terms of what you perceive to be Gigabyte’s marketing strategy. Personally, I think that Gigabyte realizes that Windows 7 isn’t going do die anytime soon.

Below, I list the details of the older motherboard’s latest BIOS. I then list the details of the newer motherboard’s BIOS. In the following lists, I highlighted newer versions of drivers and CPU microcode in BOLD text, and I highlighted drivers which have been reverted older driver versions (for Windows 7 compatibility) in ITALIC text.

For the newer version motherboard which uses the same chipset, I additionally highlighted in ITALIC text, older CPU microcode files which were added within the newer motherboard’s BIOS.

Motherboard Model: H310M DS2V (rev. 1.0)
Manufacturer: Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd.
Lastest Available BIOS Download: mb_bios_h310m-ds2v_f5.zip
BIOS file name: 310MDS2V.F5
BIOS platform: AMI Aptio V
BIOS Version: F5
BIOS Notes: Improve CPU compatibility
First Release BIOS Date: 2018-03-05
Latest Version BIOS Date: 2018-07-31
Driver versions in BIOS file:
1 – Disk Controller
EFI IRST RAID for SATA     – 16.5.0.3487
OROM IRST RAID for SATA    – 16.5.0.3487
EFI AMI NVMe Driver present
2 – Video OnBoard
EFI GOP Driver SKL-CFL     – 9.0.1079
3 – Network
OROM Intel Boot Agent CL   – 0.1.13
EFI Realtek UNDI           – 2.042
OROM Realtek Boot Agent GE – 2.66
Extracted CPU microcodes:
cpu906EA_plat22_ver00000096_2018-05-02_PRD_730E6662.bin
cpu906EB_plat02_ver0000008E_2018-03-24_PRD_26138472.bin
cpu906EC_plat22_ver00000084_2018-02-19_PRD_F3514131.bin

Motherboard Model: H310M DS2V 2.0 (rev. 1.0)
Manufacturer: Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd.
Lastest Available BIOS Download: mb_bios_h310m-ds2v-2.0_f1.zip
BIOS file name: 310DS2V2.F1
BIOS platform: AMI Aptio V
BIOS Version: F1
BIOS Notes: First Release
First Release BIOS Date: 2018-07-31
Latest Version BIOS Date: 2018-07-31
Driver versions in BIOS file:
1 – Disk Controller
EFI IRST RAID for SATA     – 16.5.0.3492
     OROM IRST RAID for SATA    – 16.5.0.3492
EFI AMI NVMe Driver present
2 – Video OnBoard
EFI GOP Driver SKL-CFL     – 9.0.1080
3 – Network
OROM Intel Boot Agent CL   – 0.1.10
     EFI Realtek UNDI           – 2.034
     OROM Realtek Boot Agent GE – 2.61
Extracted CPU microcodes:
!New_cpu906EC_plat22_ver00000096_2018-05-08_PRD_9EF46607.bin
cpu906EA_plat36_ver000000C2_2017-11-16_PRD_328B43AF.bin
cpu506E8_plat22_ver00000034_2016-07-10_PRD_57D53E7A.bin
cpu906E9_plat2A_ver00000084_2018-01-21_PRD_A1B7222B.bin **
cpu906EA_plat22_ver00000096_2018-05-02_PRD_730E6662.bin
cpu906EB_plat02_ver0000008E_2018-03-24_PRD_26138472.bin

** This Meltdown and Spectre mitigating microcode, dated 2018-01-21 and for this given CPU model, can result in data loss.

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RTEsysadmin, columbia2011, Karlston, Canadian Tech

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Bobby B, what you may be seeing is the beginning of a tempered backoff from MS. Intel did this because of the huge number of important enterprise customers they have that are demanding this. MS has the same customers. We have seen this before. I would not be surprised to see MS make some announcements to cool the angry enterprise heads who are rejecting Win10. In the end, IF they have any smarts left, MS is going to have to keep those customers from going elsewhere. Even if they stay with Win7, MS can still make money from some of them.

CT

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BobbyB, PerthMike, Kirsty

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This is what I suspected, yet I did not want to start a rant about my suspicions.

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Kirsty

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AHA!

Dare I mention it but, EPOS hack for Windows 7 in the future perhaps?

Keep IT Lean, Clean and Mean!

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Microfix, I have not installed any patches or even BIOS updates to deal with this problem. Woody’s position on this is its all about the browser. I have opted to ignore this “issue” and move instead to the Chrome browser which deals with it, albeit with some performance hit, but I have not been able to measure that.

CT

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Microfix

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Thanks CT, Just followed your installation method up to May 2017 recently for W7 and it still works perfect! I went beyond that to Dec 2017 with the last .Net roll-up installed being Sept 2017 and everything runs sweet.
No Bios updates or meltdown/ spectre patches with only the strict FW rulesets, FF-Quantum browser, MBytes Anti-malware and Anti-exploit and well configured routers as protection. Still using it online with NO ill effects.

BTW: Thanks for the Installation Walkthrough 🙂

Keep IT Lean, Clean and Mean!

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Wow Microfix. Thanks for the feedback. Nice to know that I am not alone.

CT

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wdburt1

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Hello Canadian Tech!

I, too, used your directions for updating a clean install. I’m enjoying Windows 7 without Diagtrack and CEIP. It has worked well for me, and friends and family.

Thanks, because your instructions are very clear and d0-able… and has resulted in my computer being stable and secure. If I do run into any problems I’ll share, but basically have a good computing experience day in and day out.

You are not alone… and this non-techy appreciates the work and thought you’ve put into finding a system that works, and sharing it with the rest of us.

Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter

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wdburt1, Kirsty, Canadian Tech

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Thank you so much, Elly

CT

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Elly

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James, it will be interesting to see if Dell and others offer these systems. I suspect they are waiting for MS. But, I also suspect that they are the folks who actually pressured Intel into doing this.

CT

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Again, I suspect the same since I cannot fathom a reason why Gigabyte is reverting to older Windows 7 compatible drivers within the mentioned motherboard rev2 BIOS.

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Canadian Tech wrote:

…I need to add here that we suspended all Microsoft updating May 2017. Adopted Chrome as our standard, Uninstalled Flash Player, Adobe Reader and Java, and run BitDefender antivirus +. And please note that these are non-enterprise installations…

Hi Canadian Tech:

Are your instructions in the MS Answers thread Windows Update in 2018 for creating a “final-state Windows 7 installation” the same Win 7 SP1 instructions referenced in this thread by Microfix and Elly?
——-
32-bit Vista Home Premium SP2 * Firefox ESR v52.9.0 * Norton Security v22.15.0.88

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Imacri, I really have no idea.

This is a process I spent many months working on and have perfected it. It is what I use every day for my clients. I have never seen a problem result in 15 months now on about 140 Win7 systems. Since I have done this, my support work load has fallen off by at least 50% and maybe much more. Instead of untangling messed up systems (which just does not happen), I focus on hardware maintenance with the objective of making their systems last at least another 5 years. I have replaced over 20 hard drives so far this year.

CT

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lmacri, Microfix, Elly

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@Imacri-

Canadian Tech has posted on AskWoody on the same topic, but your link contains the same information, just posted on another site.

I’ve followed his directions on my computer, and in restoring Windows for family and friends… and all were successfully updated. Even the computers that looked like they were broken because of W10 updating were successfully returned to their original operating systems and continue to function without problems. Every time I get tech-phobic and stare at the machine in fear, sure it is going to fail… take a deep breath, and follow Canadian Tech’s instructions… and it has always worked…

Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter

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@imacri, The method I used is actually here on AskWoody in a reply created by Canadian Tech in AKB2000007: Post#188268 I just printed off the reply and followed it. I already had Group B patches offline along with my system oem drivers which saved a lot of time. You can download all the required group B patches from AKB2000003 up to May 2017 as per instructions. You will also need to track down your systems oem device drivers and store them offline for installation later.

Keep IT Lean, Clean and Mean!

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Elly, lmacri

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Microfix. Suggestion. I have been doing this for years now and it has paid off handsomely many times over.

After Windows 7, system drivers and all updates are installed and any stable applications like Microsoft Office are installed and updated, and before any data or dynamic applications are installed such as antivirus software, create a system image. It will take 3 or 6 DVD +Rs (not -Rs) and about an hour. When you are done you will have a very nice bit of insurance. Should you ever again need to re-build a corrupted system or replace a hard drive, you will have a precise duplicate of your system as it was at this point. You can restore that image to a hard drive in about 20 minutes. Creation of System Image is found in your menu under Maintenance, Backup and Restore.

Another great feature about using the image is that you do not need an install disk or a product key to do the re-install the next time, and you will have saved yourself all the time you put in this time.

I emphasize the need for PLUS R DVD blanks. Do not use the more common MINUS R DVD blanks.

CT

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Elly

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Thanks CT, I prefer to use HDD’s within the desktop PC (isolated once done) or USB HDD’s for laptops nevertheless valuable info for anyone! That’s exactly what I’ve done for all our PC’s, using system images saves hours of time should there be an issue as well as generating a startup-disk which is all dated and stored. I also use a hard-drive with all the updated programs since installation separately which I keep up-to-date for each device, keeping the older drivers a version or two back from current.

1st rule in computing, backup, backup and backup which certainly makes life easier should an SSD or HDD fails.

Keep IT Lean, Clean and Mean!

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Elly

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Imacri, I had same question.  Microfix or Elly, can you shed light on the CT recommendation?  Is it the link Imacri posted; or is it just an accumulation of things? 
It does seem at CT has been periodically updating that post that Imacri linked for us: edited 8 times from April to July of this year.

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I can’t tell you about the changes, because I just follow his instructions step by step, each time… but in June I used the OEM recovery disk and reinstalled Windows 7, and updated without any problems, using his system, although I go further and update Group B style to December 2017. My laptop has been humming along happily ever since…

Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter

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anonymous, FYI, I do updates when I find typos or errors. I have found several over the time since I originally wrote that piece. I think there might have been one edit I did to make something clearer that had caused some confusion.

I have not copied anyone. I developed that process myself and clarified and verified it many times over by using it many times.

CT

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Microfix, Elly

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OscarCP wrote:

How about Spectre/Meltdown?

Actually, this might be the point of the new Gigabyte motherboard with its internal reversions to lower versions of BIOS networking drivers for compatibility with Windows 7, and with these four microcodes which prevent Meltdown/Spectre:

!New_cpu906EC_plat22_ver00000096_2018-05-08_PRD_9EF46607.bin
cpu906E9_plat2A_ver00000084_2018-01-21_PRD_A1B7222B.bin
cpu906EA_plat22_ver00000096_2018-05-02_PRD_730E6662.bin
cpu906EB_plat02_ver0000008E_2018-03-24_PRD_26138472.bin

In other words, a release of a newer version of a motherboard which now is additionally compatible with Windows 7 instead of only being compatible with Windows 10, and which has the the above four microcodes to prevent Meltdown/Spectre on these four Coffee Lake CPUs. Note that the raid and video drivers in BIOS were also updated, probably for the same reason.

Perhaps we might soon see new “refresh” version of the 906EC CPU? The following two forum threads talk about this, about Meltdown/Spectre, and possibly about Intel wanting to stick it to AMD’s Ryzen. See:

https://www.overclock.net/forum/6-intel-motherboards/1640168-asus-z370-motherboard-series-official-support-thread-220.html

At the top of the page in the above link, there is a link to Intel’s July 13, 2018 Microcode Revision Guidance PDF document. The link is working again, yet just like the March 6, 2018 Microcode Revision Guidance document, the latest PDF has no mention of the 906EC CPU. Only the older flavors of the 906E(x) CPUs are mentioned. This is interesting since MSI also has BIOS updates with May 2018 906EC microcode to “Support New Generation CPU”, as seen in the following link:

https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/8ylcms/z370_to_support_the_new_generation_of_cpus/

 

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Elly

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Ha, I knew there was life in the old girl yet.

This is just the news I was hoping for. Hope Microsoft don’t throw a tantrum but accept what is inevitable. January 2020 is not an acceptable cut-off date given the amount of corporate customers still on Windows 7.

In our office, we just refreshed our PC fleet with, what was then, the last Windows 7-supported small form factor model from Dell. Our staff are almost all older-generation people (35-70) who don’t deal well with change, and who love the Windows 7 stability and interface. For us, a 6-monthly (or even 18-monthly) upgrade cycle would be a nightmare, especially given the legacy and special-purpose software we use.

So, hurrah from me on the IT support (work) angle, and also for my home PC looking like it’ll remain on Windows 7 a little longer. I was seriously looking at moving to an alternative to Linux, except the one MMO I play only works on Windows and PS4, so I was stuck.

No matter where you go, there you are.

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GoneToPlaid, bassmanzam

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PerthMike wrote:

Ha, I knew there was life in the old girl yet. This is just the news I was hoping for. Hope Microsoft don’t throw a tantrum but accept what is inevitable. January 2020 is not an acceptable cut-off date given the amount of corporate customers still on Windows 7. In our office, we just refreshed our PC fleet with, what was then, the last Windows 7-supported small form factor model from Dell. Our staff are almost all older-generation people (35-70) who don’t deal well with change, and who love the Windows 7 stability and interface. For us, a 6-monthly (or even 18-monthly) upgrade cycle would be a nightmare, especially given the legacy and special-purpose software we use. So, hurrah from me on the IT support (work) angle, and also for my home PC looking like it’ll remain on Windows 7 a little longer. I was seriously looking at moving to an alternative to Linux, except the one MMO I play only works on Windows and PS4, so I was stuck.

It pleases me that you picked up on what I was trying to communicate. I agree that January 2020 is unacceptable. Perhaps we need to petition our local congressional legislators to force MS to support Windows 7 beyond the January 2020 cutoff date, in terms of security infrastructure throughout the corporate world an in terms of our nation’s physical infrastructure (power grids, DOD, et cetera) world? This seems like a really good idea to me. In other words, we need to wake up our congressional legislators to the potential and looming security issues of Windows 7 becoming unsupported after January 2020, especially since Windows 10 has nowhere close to the needed stability of Windows 7.

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Grond, bruce.chaser

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I will state my opinion and to my knowledge many of my colleagues who I talked to.

At my company we have about 200 Win7 clients that we never plan to upgrade to Win10.
This may change if MS opens up the Win10 to be more transparent and less intrusive but I don’t see that happening like never.
When the support for Win7 ends and the patching stops we plan to tighten up security around the potentially new exploits and continue to provide security that way.

I personally will never switch to Win10 unless it gets more “personal” again.
I belive that in the future MS will start to lose the battle on the OS front as it will be replaced by some sort of Android based OS for PC’s that will be free and simple to use as are the smartphones of today.
Already MS has lost many home users as they are moving away from the traditional desktop/laptop to a simpler and faster usable device like the Android/iOS tablet.
Only PC gamers are still the main users of new operating systems like Win10.

MS in my opinion is headed in the wrong way for years now and I think soon they would have past the point of no return.

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johnf, Grond, GoneToPlaid, Cybertooth, Canadian Tech

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I suspect that many other small to medium sized companies will follow the same path, as in batten down the hatches as best as one can.

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There’s more to this than just the chipset. For example, a Skylake processor combined with a 100-series chipset works with Windows 7. A Kaby Lake on the same chipset does not. So even if you have Windows 7 driver support for the chipset, Microsoft will have to relax or remove the CPU block.

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Anonymous, if you follow my strategy, Microsoft’s block is meaningless. That is no Microsoft updates.

The really annoying issue is that once you have a system like that you bought from Dell, if you ever have to re-build it, the standard Win7 install disk will not work because it does not have USB 3 drivers. There is a way to stream them into a Win7 ISO, but that is not easy and so far, Dell is not supplying that.

CT

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