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  • Seven Semper Fi: Three months to go; here’s what to do.

    Posted on Tracey Capen Comment on the AskWoody Lounge

    Home Forums AskWoody blog Seven Semper Fi: Three months to go; here’s what to do.

    This topic contains 58 replies, has 32 voices, and was last updated by  LHiggins 3 days ago.

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    • #1986010 Reply

      Tracey Capen
      AskWoody MVP

      WOODY’S WINDOWS WATCH By Woody Leonhard Time’s running out! Microsoft’s still scheduled to deliver its last Windows 7 security patches on January 14,
      [See the full post at: Seven Semper Fi: Three months to go; here’s what to do.]

      7 users thanked author for this post.
    • #1986045 Reply

      OscarCP
      AskWoody Plus

      Quoting from the Newsletter article: “As Amy explains, any business can buy an ESU subscription through a Microsoft Cloud Solution Provider — although the process might be somewhat complex. We’re working on a way to get ESUs out to normal, individual users in a way that doesn’t require a Ph.D. in Microsoft licensology. Would you pay $50 or so to get an extra year of Win7 security patches?

      Great idea, to help those of us who want to keep Windows 7 (perhaps along with some other OS). I have a small, one-person business. So, if  there is a way to simplify the purchase of an ESU subscription for small businesses, I definitely would like to hear about it. According to what I have read, in this context, the concept of “business” includes those with just one employee.

      Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group B & macOS + Linux (Mint) => Win7 Group W(?) + Mac&Lx

      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1986162 Reply

        woody
        Da Boss

        That’s the goal – to get official Win7 patches for individuals.

        Two big questions – cost and confusion. As Amy explains, getting a small business (even a business of one) signed up is complicated. I’m hoping that Amy and Susan will be able to come up with a simple step-by-step method for normal people to take advantage of Microsoft’s extended support.

        I’m not at all convinced it’ll be possible. But if anyone can untie the Gordian knot, they’re the ones.

        5 users thanked author for this post.
        • #1996905 Reply

          RM
          AskWoody Plus

          I would be interested in paying $50 for the first year.  From a cost/benefit perspective, $50 is a lot cheaper than buying a new computer or upgrading my computer to Win 10 and learning the Windows 10 world.  The extra time would allow me to analyze the options (Yes, I realize that I could have done that already but that is water under the bridge–already looked for a win 8.1 machine but have not found one yet) and not be in the rush of people to go to Win 10 when last Win 7 update occurs.

    • #1986062 Reply

      AJNorth
      AskWoody Plus

      Hopefully, before January there will be a deeper-delve into “0Patch”:

      Worth considering: 0patch for Win7 after January 2020

      https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/worth-considering-0patch-for-win7-after-january-2020/

      Perhaps there could also be a how-to on running Windows 7 (and other versions, for that matter) in virtual environments, including under Linux.

      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1986164 Reply

        woody
        Da Boss

        0patch is an excellent choice, but I don’t recommend it because it’s hard for me to recommend installing third-party fixes into Windows binaries.

        As for a string of 0patch patches after Win7 goes belly-up… that’s certainly worth considering, but I’m not sure how we’d be able to cover it in advance.

        4 users thanked author for this post.
        • #1987003 Reply

          Can ØPatch be worse than the muck MSFT has been rolling out lately?

          Win7 Pro SP1 64-bit, Dell Latitude E6330, Intel CORE i5 "Ivy Bridge", Group "Wait for the all-clear", Multiple Air-Gapped backup drives in different locations, "Don't check for updates-Full Manual Mode."
          --
          "...All the people, all the time..." (Peter Ustinov ad-lib from "Logan's Run")

          2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1990488 Reply

        LHiggins
        AskWoody Plus

        I’ve been looking into 0patch, too and emailed the 0Patch Help Center about it. Here’s some of what they said:

        Q: Do I need to have a Pro version of Windows 7 to purchase a Pro subscription – or will those patches work on the Home version as well?
        A: You don’t need Windows 7 Pro – all Windows 7 versions including Home will be receiving our post-EOS micropatches.

        So – this will work on any version of Windows – an 0patch Pro subscription will work on Win 7 Home.

        But…

        Q: Would I need a paid Pro subscription to receive the EOL patches after Jan 2020, even though I am a home user?
        A: Correct, you will need a paid PRO subscription to receive the EOL patches.

        OK – so that means everyone who wants to get patches through 0patch will need to pay for them.

        I also asked about how the patches will work if you are not online continually, and also about how long they plan to provide Win 7 0patches.

        Q:  Will my computer would need to be online continuously, or will it just “catch up” with patches once it goes back online after a patch has been issued?
        A: Micropatches are delivered to your computer automatically when it’s online, but once they’re there, they’re getting applied when needed whether the computer is online or not. So yes, 0patch will “catch up” when you go back online.

        Q: How long will 0patch issue Win 7 patches?
        A: We plan to provide Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 post-EOS micropatches for three years

        Sounds like something worth considering to keep Win 7 alive after Jan and it would be great to get more information on both 0patch and MS’s newest announcement about patches.

        4 users thanked author for this post.
    • #1986165 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      Open question:

      How much would you pay for Win7 extended patches?

      $50 for the first year (recognizing it’ll go up – at least double – in the second year)?

      $100 for the first year?

      • #1986819 Reply

        anonymous

        I’d pay $300 for 3 years until 2023 with no Telemetry included in the W7 Security only patches. But I rather maybe try and get some Windows 8/8.1 Pro OEM Licenses through the retail channels to go along with the One Laptop that’s running Windows 7 Pro Under a Windows 8 Pro license downgrade option and that already has rights to 8.1.

        Also as part of the $300 I really wish that MS would offer up a final Windows 7 Jan 2020 EOL convenience Roll-UP and I’d pay an extra $50 for that if it was guaranteed  Telemetry free. And, If I pay that $300, then I would want any Windows 7 Home machine to get upgraded to at least Windows 7 Pro under any extended W7 security updates purchasing agreement for consumer Windows 7 users. That said all but one of my Laptops is running Windows 7 Pro via an already purchased Pro upgrade license in addition the one Laptop that’s already 8/8.1 Pro Licensed and running W7 Pro via downgrade rights.

        Windows 10 is too Alpha stage currently and too much end user Beta Testing Pain when all that Alpha and Beta should be fixed at the QA/QC stage with only the insiders volunteering as the cannon fodder.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #1987395 Reply

        Ascaris
        AskWoody_MVP

        In my case, if I was still using Windows (7), I wouldn’t be willing to pay much, despite my contempt for Windows 10.  It’s not solving the problem.

        It’s been four and a half years, and while I keep hearing from some parts of the tech press about how much better Windows 10 is than when it first arrived, by my evaluation, it’s not any better, and it probably never will be.  That’s because the things I most dislike about Windows 10 are not bugs or various rough edges, but its very design parameters.  I could see by the end of 2015 that there was no future for me in the WaaS world that Microsoft has planned, and four years’ worth of observation hasn’t changed that a bit.  It’s not that I have incredible powers of prediction… it was really pretty obvious where MS was headed, and they’re still headed that way now.

        MS wants everyone on Windows 10 as soon as possible… we know that.  They’re willing to play the long game, though.  They want people on 10 as soon as possible so they can monetize them as soon as possible, but if they remain on 7 and volunteer to be monetized by paying for updates, that’s good too.  At the end of the extended-extended support, the people who paid all that money will be no better off than they are right now.

        Windows versions have always had limited life spans.  It was never a problem before, at least not to the degree that it is right now, because if one Windows version was a klunker, everyone knew they could wait for the next one, which MS would have made really good to try to make up for the revenue lost on the bad version.  That’s not in play anymore.  Until MS tells us otherwise, I see no reason not to take them at their word about how Windows 10 is the last Windows.  There will be no “good” version coming down the pike, and there’s been no evidence at all that MS aims to change the direction they’re in now for the current version

        A problem like this needs a permanent solution.  The way I see it, you can get used to the dark new reality of being a Windows user, beta-testing software you paid for, having less control over your own property than you should, while being plied with whatever monetization schemes Microsoft can think of, or you can stop being a Windows user.

        Everything else just delays the inevitable, even if you plan to continue to use Windows 7 beyond its supported life forever.  That may be the ideal, but it won’t last that long.  The hardware that Windows 7 runs on will continue to age, breaking down or becoming obsolete, and the software that is developed for Windows will stop working on 7, one program at a time, until 7 is functionally useless with any modern software or hardware.  Even if it was still supported with security updates forever, that would still happen.

        Group "L" (KDE Neon User Edition 5.17.2).

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #1988174 Reply

          anonymous

          Unfortunately, I must agree.  Aside from the things that just don’t work in Win 10, there are all the design flaws that are technically not bugs, but are architectural failures.  Cortana, telemetry, the user interface (flat design, no defined borders, no real start menu,…), the update maelstrom, the microsoft account requirements, no activation keys without internet access, etc., so forth…

          I’m also not a fan of the increasing help the operating system wants to provide.  For instance –  I’ll manage my printers, please.  And stop loading new drivers without my permission.

          So, I’m miffed with the thought of paying to support my current working high quality OS because the software company has done such a poor job with literally ALL the subsequent versions as to make moving forward NOT an option.  Even if I wanted to retire Win 7 there is simply no Windows based alternative to consider.

          From the movie Armageddon, “It’s not a choice, it’s a lack of options.”

          Honestly though – if I just turn windows updates off permanently, aside from my computer running better, I probably won’t really have any issues until my application software stops having Win 7 updates.

          4 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1989134 Reply

        HH33
        AskWoody Plus

        Open question:

        How much would you pay for Win7 extended patches?

        I’d certainly be willing to pay $5o for each of our three W7 Pro machines to stay updated for another year.  Even if I wanted to transition our machines – to Linux, W8.1, even W10 (yeah, right) – right now, we simply don’t have time in our schedules to devote the time to dealing with it before W7 EOL, so paying MS’s $50/machine ransom for the first year is worth it to us.  It doesn’t solve the “long-term OS choice” issue, but it gives us time to breathe.

        The more expensive update costs for the second and third years may be another matter entirely, but that will be, as they say, a “game time decision.”

        In the meantime, if AskWoody can arrange a simpler way for AW members to obtain the paid updates,  that would be hugely appreciated.

        Group 7-L (W7, heading toward Linux)
        W7 Pro x64 SP1
        Linux Mint 18.3 Cinnamon 64-bit
        Linux Mint 17.1 Xfce 32-bit

        • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 1 day ago by  HH33.
        2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #1986239 Reply

      john9546
      AskWoody Plus

      I am definitely interested in W7 extended patches. $50 or whatever would be worth another year.

      8 users thanked author for this post.
    • #1986336 Reply

      agoldhammer
      AskWoody Plus

      I’ve comments several times before that I have to keep running Win 7 because I use Windows Media Center as my cable TV alternative.  It’s not supported on Win 10.  I already have an alternative to MSFT’s channel provider service so I won’t be affected in that regard.  The question about security patches going forward is interesting but I only use this PC for cable TV and streaming Amazon Prime and Netflix.  No other Internet use.  Security risk of this PC is minimal.

      the question of whether I need an alternative to MSFT Security Essentials is still open in my mind.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #1986555 Reply

        woody
        Da Boss

        You’ll definitely need an alternate to Microsoft Security Essentials. It’s getting cut back on Win7, too, although MS may continue updates for a little while.

        Dumb question. Why not move to Roku? They’re down to $27, and bound to go lower during the Black Friday rush. I use Roku and Plex Media Server. Works like a champ.

    • #1986366 Reply

      Microfix
      Da Boss

      One important thing which is missing from the article:
      Backup your current Windows 7 licence!!

      The MSFT Windows 7 activation servers will no doubt be shutdown at some point beyond Jan 14th 2020 for homeusers. If, however, you need to re-install Windows 7 beyond this date, trouble may lay ahead..

      I’ve used Advanced Tokens Manager 3.5 RC5 by Josh Cell Softwares and have them stored safely offline should the worst ever happen. This utility works for all versions of Windows 7 (although the majorgeeks link says it’s up to Windows Vista…tut tut!)

      After a fresh OS installation, run the program and re-introduce your existing (saved) licence, et voila..after a restart Windows 7 is activated 😉

      I’ve done this countless times on fresh installs without issue. Patching, is another story that entails downloading and saving from the MSFT Catalog whether Group A or Group B. This IMO is where Group A has one over Group B.

      There’s no need for Win8.1 or W10 as these are digital licences.

      ********** Win7 x64/x86 | Win8.1 x64 | Linux Hybrids x64 **********

      8 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1986469 Reply

        abbodi86
        AskWoody_MVP

        I doubt they will close the activation servers

        Win 8.1 licenses is similar to Win 7, nothing digital or tied

        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #1986486 Reply

          Microfix
          Da Boss

          Win 8.1 licenses is similar to Win 7, nothing digital or tied

          Perhaps you would care to explain why Win8.1 activates automatically on the same device once connected online (same as W10) whereas Win7 needs it’s product key/phone-in after a fresh installation on the same device? Therein lays the difference 🙂

          ********** Win7 x64/x86 | Win8.1 x64 | Linux Hybrids x64 **********

          • #1986496 Reply

            abbodi86
            AskWoody_MVP

            That’s OEM activation
            Windows 7 support OEM:SLP activation too (the loophole which unofficial activators used)

            in Windows 8.1, the OEM key is embedded in the MSDM table (and it’s unique per machine to close the above loophole)

            Windows 10 OEM activation works like Win 8.1, in addition to the new digital license mechanism

            1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #1986543 Reply

            Microfix
            Da Boss

            I’ve also used advanced tokens manager on many oem/retail versions of Windows 7 Basic/ Starter/Home Premium/Pro successfully for people over the years.
            My point being, that once one has lost their activation irrespective of whether OEM or Retail upon a fresh reinstallation on the same device, it will be more difficult to get this on Windows 7 beyond Jan 2020..watch this space.
            1st rule in computing, backup, backup and backup 🙂

            ********** Win7 x64/x86 | Win8.1 x64 | Linux Hybrids x64 **********

            4 users thanked author for this post.
            • #1988323 Reply

              EP
              AskWoody_MVP

              activations will still be valid for Win7, even past EOL
              some XP users have found a way to still activate their XP OSes, even though they’re way past EOL

            • #1989154 Reply

              tonyl
              AskWoody Lounger

              It’s not a case of “finding a way”, as if we were talking about keeping your cash in an offshore island, or getting a new TV without paying for it. You just use the Microsoft method, i.e, make a simple phone call. Even that’s free.

              In fact, they’ve made it even easier now. If you choose the smartphone option at the prompt, they send you a text with this link:

              http://md.vivr.io/1T2DNjA

              and I activate Windows right there on my phone.

              I’ve kept it as a bookmark, so I can activate any Windows installation, instantly.

              2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1986746 Reply

        tonyl
        AskWoody Lounger

        I don’t see them closing down the Win7 activation servers anytime soon. Seeing as I can still activate WinXP.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #1988532 Reply

          anonymous

          There are still folks using XP and that PC may have a drive/MB/other failure and so some government agency still needing XP, and even folks with million dollar CNC milling machines that are only able to work properly and safely on XP. So MS will still keep the activation servers going on XP and Windows Vista, 7, 8/8.1 as well for long past that EOL date. EOL is only for free support and security support ending and there are all sorts of special paid support where MS will provide some form of fee based options.

          There is just too much infrastructure depending on MS’s OS products for any activation servers to be shut down, and Windows 7 Enterprise customers will still be activating 7 for a good while longer.

          There is sill industrial equipment running older versions of Windows that still work for the task they were intended and many SMBs dependent on that equipment that can not afford to spend millions that their budgets will not allow. MS will not want to cause any disruptions in their parts supply chains what with even some New MS devices using parts that are produced with XP/Earlier OSs running on that  production machinery, in the US and overseas.    Go and watch some of those YouTube videos of those Plastic Injection Molding machines, metal stamping machines, others. And even in  2019 there is plenty of XP based systems running those old machines that make parts for every manner of markets including parts for the XBONE and other MS products.

    • #1986498 Reply

      TsarNikky
      AskWoody Plus

      Would I be willing to pay $50 for an extra year of Windows-7 updates?  H*** Yes!

      Until WIndows-10 get serious about becoming and remaining a stable OS, there is no compelling need to switch.  The much-vaunted security enhancement is just that–hot air.  The needless complexity of Windows-10 was brought on by MS’s decision to pander to the gaming, mobile, synching users at the expense of all those users who just need a simple reliable OS.  (Think of all those personal and small business users who just want to network a few PCs together at a single office location and backup in-house.  Obviously, ignored.)

    • #1986542 Reply

      CWO4Karpster
      AskWoody Plus

      Absolutely!  $50 per year for continued Microsoft patch support for my Win7Pro machine would be well worth it to me; however, I am the kind of guy who looks both ways before crossing a one-way street, so I already have an ASUS Chrome notebook loaded and waiting.

    • #1986603 Reply

      ewagstaf
      AskWoody Plus

      Tied to Windows 7 because I run a lovable old Office 2003 setup that’s not completely portable to Windows 10.  $50 per year is the LOWER limit of what I’d pay to continue Win7Pro patching into 2020 and beyond!

      • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 3 days ago by  ewagstaf.
    • #1986626 Reply

      jabeattyauditor
      AskWoody Lounger

      $50 per year is the LOWER limit of what I’d pay to continue Win7Pro patching into 2020 and beyond!

      You and I need to play poker some time.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #1986686 Reply

      Backroads Rambler
      AskWoody Plus

      I’d be delighted to pay Microsoft their x$ per year to continue Win7Pro patching through 2023. I truly hope someone can find a simple/EZ way for individuals and very SMB to sign–up for ESU as right now it is daunting to say the very least…

    • #1986710 Reply

      plodr
      AskWoody Plus

      Yes, I’d pay for a year or two of Windows 7 support for one of the 4 computers in the house.  If MS wants to make money, there are some, like me, who’d rather pay yearly for a stable and known OS than buy a Win 10 computer and half the time not know which patch borked the system.

      My husband’s laptop is in daily use. I’d pay to keep him on 7 – less headaches for me. Me, I can surf on linux or android so I’m not worried about my computers. His computer in the basement I can pull off the internet just like I did with his 2K and XP. He can still get his work done without being online.

      Got coffee?

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #1986764 Reply

      MrJimPhelps
      AskWoody_MVP

      Woody, you didn’t mention the Windows 8.1 option. (Update: Actually, you did mention it, at the end of the article.) Either find yourself a retail Windows 8.1 license (not an easy task these days), or purchase a good quality used Windows 8.1 computer. And if you install and configure Classic Shell in Windows 8.1, you can configure it to make Windows 8.1 look and feel exactly like Windows 7.

      Going the Windows 8.1 route will get you three additional years of support from Microsoft. And all of your Windows 7 software will work under Windows 8.1.

      There is one problem that was not mentioned: Even with Windows 7 extended support beyond January 2020, some software won’t work. For example, tax prep software. I believe it was Turbo Tax who has already stated that their software will no longer work (that is, for the 2019 tax year) on a Windows 7 machine. I am not optimistic that they will relax that for those who have purchased additional extended support for a Windows 7 computer.

      Group "L" (Linux Mint)
      with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #1986988 Reply

        pmcjr6142
        AskWoody Plus

        Woody, you didn’t mention the Windows 8.1 option. (Update: Actually, you did mention it, at the end of the article.) Either find yourself a retail Windows 8.1 license (not an easy task these days), or purchase a good quality used Windows 8.1 computer. And if you install and configure Classic Shell in Windows 8.1, you can configure it to make Windows 8.1 look and feel exactly like Windows 7.

        Going the Windows 8.1 route will get you three additional years of support from Microsoft. And all of your Windows 7 software will work under Windows 8.1.

        There is one problem that was not mentioned: Even with Windows 7 extended support beyond January 2020, some software won’t work. For example, tax prep software. I believe it was Turbo Tax who has already stated that their software will no longer work (that is, for the 2019 tax year) on a Windows 7 machine. I am not optimistic that they will relax that for those who have purchased additional extended support for a Windows 7 computer.

        Mr. JimPhelps….why wouldn’t the online Turbo Tax filing continue to work?  I could understand that they may no longer make Win 7 downloadable tax software.

      • #1987394 Reply

        anonymous

        One of the issues in going from Windows 7 directly to Windows 8.1 is that you will be able to keep your personal files, but not your apps.

        Doing an intermediate upgrade to Windows 8 allows you to keep both.

        Then, upgrade from Windows 8 to 8.1

        I would also suggest going to the WSUS Offline Update site and pre-downloading all Windows 7 updates, up to and including the last ones that will be offered at EOL.

         

         

         

        • #1988325 Reply

          EP
          AskWoody_MVP

          I think you mean upgrading from Win7 to Win8.0 first, and then from Win8 (or 8.0) to Win8.1 to keep existing files and programs while upgrading

          • #1988358 Reply

            anonymous

            I know anonymous could not have edited their post within five seconds, let alone all these hours later. So I think your point is made clear in the original

            Doing an intermediate upgrade to Windows 8 allows you to keep both.

            Then, upgrade from Windows 8 to 8.1

            Windows8 was not known as 8.0, except in hindsight.

    • #1987022 Reply

      anonymous

      ? says:

      seems strange Microsoft is offering to support Windows 7 past January 2020 for sole proprietors (home users) after spending so much time and money working to move us onto WinX…

      • #1987143 Reply

        OscarCP
        AskWoody Plus

        Anonymous: They thought it better and figured out that they can still make money off Win 7 by charging people for patches beyond its official EOL. And that might well cover their expenses not yet paid off with money from some other income sources, and still  leave them with some worthwhile residual profit after that. The real tricky par, for them, is that there has to be enough of people sticking with Win 7 for this to be financially worth doing. I suppose that, after looking carefully at the way things are going, maybe that is what they expect to happen, at least for another year, or two, or three…

         

        Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group B & macOS + Linux (Mint) => Win7 Group W(?) + Mac&Lx

    • #1987095 Reply

      pmcjr6142
      AskWoody Plus

      Woody, you didn’t mention the Windows 8.1 option. (Update: Actually, you did mention it, at the end of the article.) Either find yourself a retail Windows 8.1 license (not an easy task these days), or purchase a good quality used Windows 8.1 computer. And if you install and configure Classic Shell in Windows 8.1, you can configure it to make Windows 8.1 look and feel exactly like Windows 7.

      Going the Windows 8.1 route will get you three additional years of support from Microsoft. And all of your Windows 7 software will work under Windows 8.1.

      There is one problem that was not mentioned: Even with Windows 7 extended support beyond January 2020, some software won’t work. For example, tax prep software. I believe it was Turbo Tax who has already stated that their software will no longer work (that is, for the 2019 tax year) on a Windows 7 machine. I am not optimistic that they will relax that for those who have purchased additional extended support for a Windows 7 computer.

      Mr. JimPhelps….why wouldn’t the online Turbo Tax filing continue to work?  I could understand that they may no longer make Win 7 downloadable tax software.

      This info from Turbo Tax FAQs answers my own question.  To say Turbo Tax will not work with Win 7 after Microsoft’s end of life support applies to the downloadable version.  You can still use the online version.

      • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 2 days ago by  pmcjr6142.
      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #1987144 Reply

      pneufspneufs
      AskWoody Plus

      I appreciate the mention of Newegg and refurbished win 10 computers, something I hadn’t been thinking of.  My win 7 laptop must be 10 years old and it’s time I replaced it.  I found a refurbished laptop with win 10 pro, 512Gig SSD, 16GB ram and lots of I/O available.  A nice machine for less than $400.  I was going to wait for Black Friday but this will be much more capable for the amount I was prepared to spend.

    • #1987591 Reply

      anonymous

      Its getting close to the time when I throw away my old Windows 7 laptop and replace it with a Chromebook. For someone like me who doesn t use it for business and only surfs the web and exchanges Email with friends and relatives it just not worth a lot of money.

    • #1987707 Reply

      fl
      AskWoody Lounger

      At the risk of offending the many posters here with their entirely justified and understandable reluctance to adopt Win10, could I request that Woody and the moderators consider establishing a topic or better yet, a Knowledge Base article detailing the road for those long-time Win7 Group B members, such as myself, who have now sadly decided to collaborate, show the white flag, put up their hands and go along quietly to convert their machines to Win10? (yes, yes, give me the white flower now…)

      An AKB2xxxxxxxx article detailing the list of hazardous updates to avoid and general methodology would be most welcome. Speaking personally, I run Windows as a Bootcamp partition on a Mac, so I’m considering simply wiping the whole thing and building up up from scratch, but I’d happily consider anything that would spare me days of program re-installation and re-authorization.

      For example, is all that is necessary simply disabling “Never10” or any other 10 blocker, and then running the latest Group A update prior to making the big jump?

      Mac Mini v. 6.2 (2012) with Win7 64 bit
      MacBook Pro v. 3.1 (2007) with Win7 32 bit
      Group B Updater

      • #1987732 Reply

        PKCano
        Da Boss

        An AKB2xxxxxxxx article detailing the list of hazardous updates to avoid and general methodology would be most welcome.

        There are no patches to choose or not choose in Win10. The same rule goes: Install the Patch Tuesday Security CUs using DEFCON to determine when they are safe, DO NOT install the Preview patches that are issued between Patch Tuesdays.
        There is no Security-only Group B, there is no real avoiding the telemetry (although some would have you believe that there is).
        If you move to Win10, you definitely should consider the Pro Edition. The problem with Win10 is controlling WHEN you get the updates, and that is easier in Pro.

        I am a Mac user. All my Windows installations (XP, 7, 8.1, 1803, 1809, 1903, Insider Preview Fast Ring 20h1) are in Parallels VMs on my Macs. You might consider moving your Win7 (upgradeded to Win10 if you choose) to a VM instead of using bootcamp. Parallels works great.

        • #1987972 Reply

          anonymous

          Thanks PKC.

          I have a Win10 Pro license all ready and waiting to go, but I’ve been hesitating because, well, you know… The big question for me is whether to wipe the partition and start from scratch, or to upgrade my existing Win7 install, which would certainly reduce some of the headaches of re-authorizing all my software, with the potential risk of losing activations here or there – but might introduce other headaches of its own.

          Your tip about running Windows on a Mac via Parallels would not work for me, as my main reason for running Windows  is to use Digital Audio programs which process sound files in real-time. In my experience, an emulator just adds too much load to insure glitch-free performance. But thanks for the thought…

          • #1988005 Reply

            Alex5723
            AskWoody Plus

            Digital Audio programs which process sound files in real-time.

            If Digital Audio programs are you concern then MacOS has better audio applications than Windows.

    • #1988895 Reply

      anonymous

      If Digital Audio programs are you concern then MacOS has better audio applications than Windows.

      This is simply false. All major DAWs are cross platform, with the only real exception being Logic Pro. The same is largely true for interfaces released within the last 5 years.

      I would add my voice to the clamour for paid extended support. The 7 install on my main DAW machine is solid, silent, and transparent. I barely even know it’s there, and that’s how I feel it should be.

      • #1988963 Reply

        mn–
        AskWoody Lounger

        This is simply false. All major DAWs are cross platform,

        There are several applications that are specific to a certain operating system. Especially license versions… may have to buy again to switch operating systems, which could get expensive.

        It’s pretty clear that some operating systems are better than others for realtime signal processing but if you really go all-in for hard-realtime, instead of either Windows or Mac you’ll probably end up on VxWorks or QNX or some such … I don’t think many of the generalized music studio applications run on either.

        Linux can be customized to do a fair realtime setup, if your choice of applications runs on it.

        Pseudo-realtime work on Windows is a question of getting the drivers and such just right and then making them stay that way. Really wouldn’t expect the Windows 10 update cycle to help with that. I’ve been hearing funny things about Mac updates recently as well, but nothing specifically dealing with audio or scheduler.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #1989617 Reply

      anonymous

      couple notes / Questions

      1. Will these windows 7 patches be at the same level as the current ones? ( as in buggy)
      2. Will your computer get a turn off switch if you say after 3 years, you do not go to 10 within say 30 days?
      3. Going along with #2 , as M$ wants every on their 10 money wagon, will getting these patches require you agreeing to go to BETA 10 after 3 years?
      • #1990128 Reply

        Paul T
        AskWoody MVP

        We can’t know what MS will do with W7 upgrades and guessing isn’t much value here – though it can be fun.

        cheers, Paul

    • #1990895 Reply

      anonymous

      Can anyone suggest good options for purchasing a valid/real Win 8.1 (Pro) license? I have experimented with Win10 a few times over recent years and don’t like (or trust) it, but am also nervous about sticking with Win7 past EOL. I have a Win8.1 trial installed on an old laptop and with a few tweaks it seems pretty similar to Win7 to me, so I would like to follow that path for the next few years but am having trouble finding reputable ways to get a license.

      • #1990900 Reply

        PKCano
        Da Boss

        Your best bet is to buy a refurbished machine with Win8.1 on it from a reputable source (Dell, HP, New Egg, etc). You can get them for a reasonably low price. Licenses themselves tend to be risky.

    • #1992388 Reply

      Endora
      AskWoody Plus

      I’d definitely pay for Win 7 Pro updates for one computer I have for as long as I can get them…if the price isn’t exorbitant. $50 is fine, I’d go a bit more beyond that. I’m not at all inclined to go with Win 10 anytime soon though.

    • #2001964 Reply

      RMeijer
      AskWoody Plus

      An interesting development that may actually work.  See

      https://hardenwindows7forsecurity.com/Harden%20Windows%207%20Home%20Premium%2064bit%20-%20Standalone.html

      Rmeijer

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #2002221 Reply

      LHiggins
      AskWoody Plus

      Thanks for all of the links and thoughts on ways to go forward with Win 7. It seems from reading through this that there are several parts to a good plan.

      First though, I did want to clarify MS extended support.

      seems strange Microsoft is offering to support Windows 7 past January 2020 for sole proprietors (home users) after spending so much time and money working to move us onto WinX…

      As I understand it – while sole proprietors may be eligible to pay for extended support, “home users” who do not run Win 7 Pro or Enterprise won’t be:

      Here’s what qualifies for Extended Support OS wise.

      Pro and Enterprise are business. Home and Ultimate are Consumer, ie, not business.

      OK – so now to what may help those of us who have Home and not one of the “business” versions?

      1. Patch My PC will show software that needs updating to avoid possible infections or other issues.
      2. Malware Anti-Exploit is protection from web-based attacks.
      3. 0Patch is an alternative patching option. According to their website:

      Worried about security patches for your Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 computers after their end-of-support in January 2020? Don’t be. 0patch will provide security micropatches for high-risk vulnerabilities in these popular and ubiquitous Windows platforms, all included in the price of a PRO license…

      When I checked with them, 0Patch said that their Pro license can be used with any version of Win 7 – not just “business” versions.

      So – what combination of these – or something else – might be a good way for those with Win 7 Home to secure our machines going forward?

      Thanks for the help!

      • #2002353 Reply

        AJNorth
        AskWoody Plus

        Greetings,

        The short answer is all of the above (1, 2 & 3); they are not mutually exclusive.  Indeed, my guess is that a sizable fraction of those who continue to use Win 7 after EOL will not be using 0Patch (most will probably not even know about it); in fact, quite a few people are in what is referred to here as “Group W” — they haven’t installed Microsoft patches for some time.

        After all, at the end of the day, the overwhelming majority of computer infections are the result of its operator’s use (such as visiting an infected site — especially with a poorly-protected browser, downloading and opening a booby-trapped attachment or executable, and so on).

        Being careful (thoughtful and purposeful) in operating one’s computer is THE first line of defense; that coupled with using an up-to-date browser with effective security enhancements (such as uBlock Origin and NoScript — and even running the browser in a sandbox, such as the now-free Sandboxie), as well as having layers of capable antimalware (including using a quality router with a firewall) and keeping installed applications up-to-date should keep virtually every Windows 7 user safe for some time to come.

        Patch My PC works on all versions of Windows from Vista through 10; MWB Anti-Exploit works from XP onwards.  (By the way, EMET reached its EOL in July 2018 — another reason to use MWB A-E instead.)

        Cheers,

        AJN

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #2003480 Reply

          LHiggins
          AskWoody Plus

          Thanks for the information! Much appreciated!

          Indeed, my guess is that a sizable fraction of those who continue to use Win 7 after EOL will not be using 0Patch (most will probably not even know about it); in fact, quite a few people are in what is referred to here as “Group W” — they haven’t installed Microsoft patches for some time.

          So – maybe 0Patch isn’t as important as following good computing practices and being sure software is up to date. Still wish I knew a bit more about how it works though.

          I am not planning to use Win 7 as my main OS – right now I run Linux Mint from a USB SSD on my Win 7 laptop. But I do have a few things that won’t run on Mint and I do want to be able to use Win 7 occasionally – so I definitely will look into Patch My PC as one of the ways to protect my computer after Jan 2020.

          Thanks again! Sorry for the late reply!

          • This reply was modified 3 days ago by  LHiggins.
          1 user thanked author for this post.

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