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  • Shall I bother "Upgrading" from Win7 to Win10?

    Home Forums AskWoody support Windows Windows 10 Questions: Win10 Shall I bother "Upgrading" from Win7 to Win10?

    This topic contains 25 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by

     BobT 1 year, 6 months ago.

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    • #135738 Reply

      Kirsty
      Da Boss

      New topic from new user @BobT:

       
      Do any of you using Win 10 get on with it alright? Do you regret “upgrading” from 7?

      I have just over 3 weeks off work, which is a rarity and an opportunity I won’t be getting again for a few years, so I’m going to format & reinstall Windows anyway, (finally moving to SSDs, and I have ~2TB of data to reinstall so I’ll only get one chance). The dilemma is whether I reinstall Win 7, or W10.

      • I’m currently on Win 7 Ultimate x64 and happy with it.
      • I’ve tweaked a lot of registry settings, installed classic shell etc and got it working exactly how I want it to, for me.
      • I mainly use my PC for gaming, some software development, vid watching & net browsing, nothing fancy.
      • I have access to Win 10 Enterprise N x64.
      • I wouldn’t use most of the new “features” in Win 10, Speech Control, Cortana, OneDrive, Windows Store, all that **** means nothing to me.
      • I HATE the idea of having to fart about so much with Privacy settings so much, there seems SO many in Win 10 and it would be easy to miss some. It’s even hard to find a definitive, up to date list with ALL settings to switch off to remove telemetry, keylogging and all the rest. Many articles seem to be from 2016 so I’m unsure how bad it is nowadays, (ads incoming, Cortana forced on now?). Seems a huge mess around and apparently updates sometimes revert them back to on?
      • DESPITE the “Forced Updates” of W10. I have my W7 set to notify only, wait a week, scrutinise the KB numbers for articles like Woody’s to see what’s in them, then download. Microsoft taking the “Personal” out of Personal Computer is really grating on me lately. I’d rage if W10 regressed drivers to older versions etc too. I like to have complete control over my machine. Again it’s hard to find a definitive, up to date article on how to take back control, and even those seem to be unclear which bits work or not. Is it possible to set “Notify Only” on W10 (registry or group policy I think?). I’m aware you can’t click on an update to see what it is anymore, and having to use a separate tool to hide them.
      • Pretty much the only “reasons” I think I’d have for W10 are Security Updates past Jan 2020 (again, note that I may not get this opportunity to reinstall again till then), DX12 (when do we think games are going DX12 only?) and general Performance improvements.
      • I’ve seen some articles saying DX12 isn’t that much of an “Upgrade”, and some benchmarks say games have worse performance than DX11. Is this true, is there even much of a difference?
      • I’ve also seen the apparent general “performance” improvements in Win 10 not being that great either. As with the above though a lot of mainstream articles make out it’s fantastic. Again I’m not sure which is true.
      • Does W10 truly make SSDs perform better as I’ve read in places. Are there any problems or bottlenecks / handicaps with SSDs on 7?
      • I think I could generally take back control of the UI, with Classic Shell, shortcut to the old Control Panel etc. But unsure how long those will last and whether everything is even still possible nowadays.
      • Although they’re saying this is the “last” version of Windows, I remember them saying the same about XP. Does anyone have a hunch they may come out with a different version by 2020 to address the huge concerns and problems with the current approach?

      Sorry for the huge ramble, but it’s quite a dilemma and again I’ll likely not get much more than a week, or two at max off work for a long long time. If I had the time to just “try” W10 first I would, so I’m asking here. What are your experiences, are you happy, would you revert to 7 if you had the time? Etc. I’ve seen a LOT of anxiety about updates, new versions, which will be supported, which break things etc. I never remember this much with 7…

      I’m aware I can just stay on 7, but unsure whether it will be a good idea in the long term re Jan 2020. However I can’t really think of any benefits I’d get from “upgrading” to W10 at this time, seems like there’s only drawbacks. It wasn’t like this from XP to 7, there were some UI niggles (solved with Classic Shell) and a missing feature or two, but otherwise it at least felt like an upgrade..

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #135780 Reply

      Woody Lounger
      AskWoody Plus

      Sounds like you’re a good candidate to ride out Win7 until it turns belly-up in early 2020.

      I’ve been using Win10 for years, written two books about it, and can’t say that there’s anything in particular that’s vastly superior to Win7. Lots of little good things. But, if your primary motivation is to get things done, Win7 works fine.

      When 2020 rolls around, you’ll have to make a decision – but the situation at that time will be different from how it is now. My money’s on Chromebooks becoming much more mainstream.

      As for snooping and updating – there are partial solutions to both, but no On/Off switch. Microsoft designed it that way. “Basic” telemetry includes 1,600 separate pieces of info about your machine that’s sent to MS every day. The telemetry really does help Microsoft make your Windows experience better, but whether you want to dish out that much info is a personal call. (Chromebooks are worse.) If you get Win10 Pro, you can delay updates for a month or so, but there are sneaky workarounds for Home.

    • #135786 Reply

      PKCano
      Da Boss

      I agree with @woody-lounger.

      You have no guarantee that Win10 will install successfully on you older machine, that all the programs will be compatible, or that your peripherals will all work. And it sounds like you won’t have time to have the attempt fail and have to reinstall Win7 as well.

      And, who knows, by 2020 you may need a new computer as well. Changing to an SSD doesn’t update the rest of the hardware.

    • #135817 Reply

      Kirsty
      Da Boss

      From BobT, our new user who posed this question:

      (Awaiting moderation)
      My machine itself is a few years old but still pretty beasty. (I7 3960x, GTX 980ti, 16GB RAM etc), so I’m expecting it to last a good few years yet. SSDs were the bottlenecks.

      And yeah at the moment the more I read the more I’m leaning towards 7. There just seems too much anxiety at the updates and loss of control, even by those obviously IT-literate.

      I think in Enterprise you can apparently turn the snooping fully off, but what happens when they dump another patch that switches it all back on? The constant worry and tweaking of settings I really don’t have time for. My phone is bad enough with that, updating every few weeks and changing things around. I like to set it, and then have it work how I want.

      I’ve seen ways of switching off the forced updates, but what happens when they block that too? (They obviously want to). I presume by Jan 2020 we’ll be in a much different place, possibly even a different direction once people realise the fallout from 10.

      The telemetry may “help”, but seems they mainly use it for confirmation bias such as “Oh 2000000x aunt Martha’s leave their toolbars all-over the screen, so let’s remove them.”. Plus their focus and obvious want for advertisements means they’ll 100% be using as much info as they can for targeted ads etc. Don’t want them thinking my personal info is theirs.

      I think 10 would install “ok”, and of course there will be a bit of messing about with drivers but that’s standard. It’s the loss of control that worries me the most. SO many screens to mess around with JUST for privacy, nevermind the rest.

      Those of you using 10 and who don’t actually use all the “flashy” features like voice commands and the rest, do you ever wish you’d just stayed on 7 / have you gone back?

      I’m struggling to see ANY actual benefit at the mo besides security updates, especially if DX12 isn’t actually all that, and games won’t be cutting off DX11 support for a while.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #135819 Reply

      Kirsty
      Da Boss

      (Awaiting moderation)
      Not sure why Win8.1 gets lost in the conversation so much. I have not had any major difficulties with it. Even during the GWX campaign my update checker scan time was minimal compared to W7. Not once did I have to find the magic update that would improve wait time. And the Group B method has been easy as pie.

      Noel has mentioned that he uses it for his daily driver. Perhaps he can put in a word or two about it. Something to consider at any rate, because it’s EOL will extend past W7.

      Good luck with your project Kirsty. In all that time off, perhaps you will find a moment or two to see the sights or get out of town for a change of scenery.

      Would someone be kind enough to quote this post so it can be seen? Or at the very least, call attention to it so Kirsty gets the message somehow.

      Thanks,
      Purg

      • #135822 Reply

        Kirsty
        Da Boss

        Thks @purg. Like yourself, @BobT is caught in the current site difficulties, so I posted his question to get it some “air”.
        The input is much appreciated – myself, I’m still hanging on to Win7 as long as I can (due to work software requirements), but I do have upgrade rights to Win8. If I do get a holiday sometime, maybe I will try upgrading one machine (but that won’t be this month) 😉

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #135846 Reply

      Bill C.
      AskWoody Plus

      I would stick with Windows 7.  These comments you made, make me believe you would be better served that way.

      • I HATE the idea of having to fart about so much with Privacy settings so much, there seems SO many in Win 10 and it would be easy to miss some. It’s even hard to find a definitive, up to date list with ALL settings to switch off to remove telemetry, keylogging and all the rest. Many articles seem to be from 2016 so I’m unsure how bad it is nowadays, (ads incoming, Cortana forced on now?). Seems a huge mess around and apparently updates sometimes revert them back to on?
      • DESPITE the “Forced Updates” of W10. I have my W7 set to notify only, wait a week, scrutinise the KB numbers for articles like Woody’s to see what’s in them, then download. Microsoft taking the “Personal” out of Personal Computer is really grating on me lately. I’d rage if W10 regressed drivers to older versions etc too. I like to have complete control over my machine. Again it’s hard to find a definitive, up to date article on how to take back control, and even those seem to be unclear which bits work or not. Is it possible to set “Notify Only” on W10 (registry or group policy I think?). I’m aware you can’t click on an update to see what it is anymore, and having to use a separate tool to hide them.

      You also say the upgrade is a one time shot.  Due to that fact, AND the two statements above, you would NOT be satified.

      I am a Win7Pro-64 SP1 user.  I also use an organizational laptop with Win10Home.  It does a mission critical task issuing ID credentials.  During one of its uses, it decided to do an update.  That resulted in its being out of service all day during a meeting.  I inheritied it afterwards.  I floundered through the processes, but was successful ONLY once I turned off WiFi and/or unplugged the NIC cord.  It then stopped asking to update the system (the AV still nagged).  After the session this summer, I let it rip through an update with fingers crossed.  I was lucky and it succeeded.  I have never reconnected it back to the net as I have a critical need coming up in early November and connot risk an update/upgrade making the device or any peripheral unusable.

      Now my take on the OS itself.  I find it OK to use, but dislike the Fisher-Price look of the flat interface that is more appropriate on a tablet or phone.  It appears to be stable.  It is fast on the i7 laptop.  I find the snooping to be a non-starter for me personally, but given its limited tasks, is not too big an issue.  However, the updating is a BIG interruption, and with the Home version you are limited in how long you can delay (unless it cannot connect).

      Your Win7 system appears to me to be sound, stable and familiar.  You have it set to your likings.  Searching for settings all over the OS like Win10 and then not being sure they will survive an update/upgrade would make me hesitate (MS does like to forcibly revert to THEIR preferred settings…)

      There is also the issue of how long MS will support specific hardware under Win10.  It is possible (but probably unlikely) that you could be orphaned and unable to upgrade, and thereby loose the ability to get updates.

      Since you say you get to do this once, make it with a tried and true working system and by 2020 there may be more stability in WaaS or even alternatives.  Three years is still a ways off and gives you a lot of time to explore alternatives.  Since you are a gamer, maybe by that time even Linux may be a viable alternative (I keep hoping).

       

       

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      • #135947 Reply

        Kirsty
        Da Boss

        Reply from @BobT:

         
        (Awaiting moderation)
        Thanks Bill, that’s quite enlightening.

        So far I don’t think I’d “miss” anything with 10, and as Cybertooth says, their attitude of late will likely mean something will majorly change come 2020, whether that’s a new version or what. Otherwise it WILL turn people away.

        If they do decide to finally sort themselves out, I doubt it will be fixed through a simple “update”, since their current methods and philosophies seem completely baked into the product they’re releasing. Therefore if it’s as it sounds, if I went to 10 now, I’d probably just have to do it all-over again anyway in a year or two or whenever they fix themselves. And if they don’t change their attitude, I’m not sure I want to support it with being on W10 tbh.

        I doubt anything will change though once they see the financial benefit of having everyone’s data and get a taste of that sweet advertisement money / forced updates through the App store, (another thing I don’t like that they’re pushing..).

        As mentioned I do have access to the Enterprise version though, where I presume you can turn “everything” off. But I still haven’t heard a good argument of why I should actually put up with the bother of going to 10 yet, as in what benefits will outweigh the negatives of having to spend time messing around with all the privacy / update settings, (as well as the “worse” UI like ribbonising Windows Explorer…). All those mainstream articles etc list features like Microsoft Edge.. Not very convincing heh.

        Some flimsy arguments from my colleagues of DX12 and “Performance improvements”, but I can’t see anything solid. And what’s this about them blocking updates for certain hardware? Sure my components are a couple of years old but considering I can still whack all games on Ultra, it’s not like they’re OLD old. The only bottlenecks previously were that I was still using HDs.

        I started reading Woody’s pages when MS started the GWX debacle. At that point I started scrutinizing EVERY update, especially those “update for Windows” ones. That was the kicker for me when it felt like my PC was no longer treated as MY PERSONAL Computer anymore heh. I think this time I might use the catalogue instead of trusting those “Security & Feature rollup” updates too.

        But yeah one of the main ones, are there any issues with SSDs on 7? I’ve “heard” W10 supports them better. The problem is some say 7 is faster, some say 10, as with the posts here: https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/ssd-performance-windows-7-vs-windows-10.2458306/

        Amusingly even in that thread, those with 10 are like “don’t worry about all the things you hate, you can turn them all off with a bit of time and work“, (for MS to then reset allover again with a future patch, and could be avoided altogether by just not moving to 10..).

    • #135849 Reply

      Kirsty
      Da Boss

      Reply from @BobT:

      (Awaiting moderation)
      Hmm 8.1 may be a possible (with ClassicShell of course). Are there any major differences in that vs Win 7? As in actual improvements, not flashy gimmicks. EEOL for this is Jan 2023 yeah? A full 5 years more than 7.

      I keep seeing people at work say 10 is “faster” and “better”, but when I look at benchmarks, they say there’s minimal, (if at all) improvement. I’ve heard it works better with SSDs than 7 does, but is it actually a noticeable difference? (for home use / gaming).

      Beyond the above, (inc the flashy gimmicks like voice control, xbox streaming, onedrive and the rest), is there ANY actual reason / benefit of upgrading to Win10, besides support past Jan 2020? No-one I’ve asked in person can give me one (once the supposed “performance” improvements are discounted, as well as DX12).

      We’re in the middle of an upgrade to Win10 at work at the moment too, but I haven’t really had the chance to actually “use” / customise it yet as I’ve been busy testing all our custom applications. This takes months as we do a LOT of bespoke development (100+ custom apps, mainly .net), I can’t even imagine what this is going to be like every major feature patch every 6 months.. We only have 4 devs on our team lol, (2 Desktop, 2 Web), and it’s hard enough keeping the lights on, while testing everything for an OS upgrade every few YEARS, not months.

      Never used to be like this, we went from XP, to 7, now to 10 with ~6 years inbetween so things were generally pretty “stable”.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #135883 Reply

      Cybertooth
      AskWoody Lounger

      When the folks at Microsoft announced that Windows 10 would be the “last” version of Windows, I accepted their explanation that it meant that henceforth Windows would keep evolving continually and there would be no more discrete new versions.

      But considering how unresponsive they’ve become to users’ desire for control over their own computing experience (no built-in ability to enable Aero; telemetry you can’t turn off; forced updates), I’m now wondering if the phrase “the last version of Windows” will mean truly the last iteration of Windows that will come on the market as people jump ship to other operating systems.

    • #135898 Reply

      Noel Carboni
      AskWoody_MVP

      https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/13853/windows-lifecycle-fact-sheet

      I’m not sure whether you can get Win 8.1 licenses, but I feel pretty comfortable with my setup. It’s tweaked an augmented the best way I know how, and it’s a better Windows than Windows 7 was in the end – i.e., without Apps or the Start Screen, but WITH a replacement Start Menu (Classic Shell) and in my case I’ve even resurrected Aero Glass and re-themed it so it actually looks nice. I work with it day in and day out on my workstation and it’s rock solid. I rebooted today to complete an install; it had been running 24/7 for 2 weeks, since the last reboot mandated by Windows Updates. I never see instability.

      Personally, I’d recommend seeing if you can find a license for Win 8.1 Pro – the last perpetually licensed version with mainstream support that’s going to go out to January 2018, and extended support to 2023. Personally, I figure the less Microsoft changes it the better at this point.

      P.S., I’ve been keeping it up to date Group A style so far and that’s been fine.

      -Noel

      • #135950 Reply

        Kirsty
        Da Boss

        Reply from @BobT:

         

        (Awaiting moderation)

        it’s a better Windows than Windows 7 was in the end

        Cheers mate. Definitely something to consider I think. I probably could get my hands on a license (legitimately).

        What do you like about it / feel that it’s better than Win 7 at? Interesting it will go right to 2023. Could give me an extra few years if I go with that one.

        And yeah Classic Shell is great, I’ve given myself a lovely XP-style single-column cascading pop-out start menu in Win 7, (Aero Glassed of course). I just love the ability to customise like that.

    • #135944 Reply

      Jan K.
      AskWoody Lounger

      Before doing anything, take out your current win7 disc and keep it safe. Do not delete it or re-use that disc.

      Insert your new ssd and test win10.

      If any regrets later, simply transfer your old win7 disc to your ssd and continue win7 now on steroid.

    • #136022 Reply

      PKCano
      Da Boss

      Reply from @BobT

      (Awaiting moderation) Unfortunately I won’t have time to give it a full test / use. I’ll have very little time off work after these next couple of weeks, and reinstalling all my apps / games and setting everything back up takes a good while. (~2 TB data).

      Also with things like W10 it may “Look” nice on the surface, but only after a good few months of using it can you see the c*** bits kick in, re Windows Update, pulling features, resetting settings etc. Be a bit too late by then.

      Tis why I’m seeking opinions of techy people who have actually used it for a good while. Whether people use it and love it, use it and put up with it, or actively don’t use / have gone back to 7 or 8.1 due to whatever reasons.

      So far I’m leaning towards staying on 7. Even today’s post of them ripping out Media Player is irritating. I do actually use it for a bit of lightweight vid playing, and use VLC for actual movie watching etc. But I hate to “lose” features I use, even if now and then. I guess this is a consequence of Windows as a Service.

      • #136029 Reply

        PKCano
        Da Boss

        @BobT

        I have been in the Insider program since Oct 2014, so I am fairly familiar with Win10.
        All my Win10 are in VMs – I will never have it on one of my production machines.

        I use Win7 and Win8.1 daily. Classic Shell hides the garish Win8.1 tile apps and makes the desktop usable. (I do not use any of the tile apps) Both versions of Win are stable, and I have blocked the telemetry to a point I can live with. Even though updating has become harder in the past few years, it is still doable.

        Win10 is (and will always be) in upheaval, with major version revisions every six months and an 18-month life span. Every time I go through an update, I go back over my settings,  in the Settings App, in the Registry, in Group Policy, in Services. The changes MS makes to those settings have been reduced, but then you basically have a whole new OS once a year and you start over. I have Win10 Pro, so there are settings – the poor people with Win10 Home are at MS’s mercy.

        And then there’s the bloatware. The UWP Apps are inferior, for the most part unusable IMO. And the “suggestions” and ads are intrusive. If you spend your time uninstalling them, you will just have to do it again in six months or a year. You still have to install the programs you need to use. I don’t have a use for a touch screen (I use a mouse and touchpad), and I certainly don’t need to talk to my PC.

        For my everyday use, I have gone to Macs. with Windows VMs on them. The Windows-on-hardware installations I still have get less and less use (like updated once a month for the most part).

        I think you will be much happier staying with Win7 for the next couple of years. In the mean time, look around and see what other OSs are available. Macs, multiple Linux distros, etc.

         

        • #136044 Reply

          Kirsty
          Da Boss

          Reply from @BobT:

           

          (Awaiting moderation)
          @pkcano

          Thanks mate. What DO you use those W10 VMs for, playing around / testing? Or is there something specific that it’s good at, or you can only do on W10? Again just curious if it has ANY advantages besides support / gimmicks lol.

          I do see a lot on here say their daily use / production machines are all still kept on 7 or 8.1. Seems a huge lack of trust / anxiety for W10. How can Windows as Service, with practically a “new OS” / changed settings every 6 months possibly be stable for general use?

          Thanks for all the opinions though guys, this is exactly the sorta thing I was looking for.

          • #136048 Reply

            PKCano
            Da Boss

            Those Win10 VMs are mostly for my education, and helping people here on AskWoody and the people in my circle of (gratis) clients. I don’t use them for any other purpose.

            • #136107 Reply

              Kirsty
              Da Boss

              Reply from @BobT:

              (Awaiting moderation)I see. So for you at least it seems there’s literally no point in actually “using” Win10 as your main machine heh. Most others seem to feel the same besides those “Putting up” with it. Interesting MS is still bullishly charging ahead with this.

              So seems 0 votes for Win 10, or at least no upsides.
              A couple of votes for 8.1.
              And a few for staying on good ol 7. (Current preference).

              What’s the benefits of 8.1 over Win 7? Besides the obvious extra 3 years of support. Is it the same, worse, or better at some things? Remember not that bothered about the gimmicks. How is it for drivers / program compatibility etc?

              I’m not being lazy here. Like I said the problem is when you research this online, you get all those mainstream articles all listing the same thing, mainly MS talking points. Such as with Win 10 all they listed was Cortana “Better performance”, and Microsoft Edge (really, lol). Nothing really about what has been replaced (or legitimately upgraded) and what was missing for day to day use.

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    • #136655 Reply

      joep517
      AskWoody MVP

      I vote for Win10. As for your list:

      I’m currently on Win 7 Ultimate x64 and happy with it. – I see no reason you would not end up being happy with Win10

      I’ve tweaked a lot of registry settings, installed classic shell etc and got it working exactly how I want it to, for me. – Tweak away if you wish. As with every Windows release some settings may no longer work. Without knowing what you’ve changed I can’t comment further. Several different third party programs are available to modify the shell.

      I mainly use my PC for gaming, some software development, vid watching & net browsing, nothing fancy. – No problem for a properly configured (hardware) Wind0ws 10 machine. I have a grandson running a Win10 gaming machine. He is very happy with it.

      I have access to Win 10 Enterprise N x64. – Should be fine. Not sure if you can add the “N” components easily to the Enterprise SKU if you want them

      I wouldn’t use most of the new “features” in Win 10, Speech Control, Cortana, OneDrive, Windows Store, all that **** means nothing to me. – IMO, you should give them a try. You never know when one thing may justify the feature to you. You can always disable later.

      I HATE the idea of having to fart about so much with Privacy settings so much, there seems SO many in Win 10 and it would be easy to miss some. It’s even hard to find a definitive, up to date list with ALL settings to switch off to remove telemetry, keylogging and all the rest. Many articles seem to be from 2016 so I’m unsure how bad it is nowadays, (ads incoming, Cortana forced on now?). Seems a huge mess around and apparently updates sometimes revert them back to on? – Just a lot of noise. There a third party programs to control privacy settings if you feel you must. Many who complain about Windows ignore the data collection happening to anyone using the internet these days.

      DESPITE the “Forced Updates” of W10. I have my W7 set to notify only, wait a week, scrutinise the KB numbers for articles like Woody’s to see what’s in them, then download. Microsoft taking the “Personal” out of Personal Computer is really grating on me lately. I’d rage if W10 regressed drivers to older versions etc too. I like to have complete control over my machine. Again it’s hard to find a definitive, up to date article on how to take back control, and even those seem to be unclear which bits work or not. Is it possible to set “Notify Only” on W10 (registry or group policy I think?). I’m aware you can’t click on an update to see what it is anymore, and having to use a separate tool to hide them. <b></b>– You may disable driver updates in WIn10. You can postpone updates for a short period of time but not easily disable them or just get a notification. Messing around with other Windows settings to disable and re-enable WU is a waste of time. For the vast majority of systems updates are quick and painless. I realize that the small percentage of users with update problems is a large physical number. I think the only way you can have complete control over your machine is to go Linux.

      Pretty much the only “reasons” I think I’d have for W10 are Security Updates past Jan 2020 (again, note that I may not get this opportunity to reinstall again till then), DX12 (when do we think games are going DX12 only?) and general Performance improvements.– In today’s environment ignoring security updates is asking to be hacked.

      I’ve seen some articles saying DX12 isn’t that much of an “Upgrade”, and some benchmarks say games have worse performance than DX11. Is this true, is there even much of a difference? – Not sure. Only read a little about DX12 and can’t comment about differences.

      I’ve also seen the apparent general “performance” improvements in Win 10 not being that great either. As with the above though a lot of mainstream articles make out it’s fantastic. Again I’m not sure which is true. – Win10 seems generally more responsive to me but I have not done benchmarks to prove it. I’d say the improvements are probably slight

      Does W10 truly make SSDs perform better as I’ve read in places. Are there any problems or bottlenecks / handicaps with SSDs on 7? – Don’t know. I’d like to know what the sources are

      I think I could generally take back control of the UI, with Classic Shell, shortcut to the old Control Panel etc. But unsure how long those will last and whether everything is even still possible nowadays. – The old CP is going away. More and more controls are being moved to Settings. Along the way some things are being removed and some are harder to find. Perhaps due to telemetry about usage. 

      Although they’re saying this is the “last” version of Windows, I remember them saying the same about XP. Does anyone have a hunch they may come out with a different version by 2020 to address the huge concerns and problems with the current approach? – 2020 is fast approaching. I doubt there will be a huge change in the way Windows is developed and supported. Microsoft will continue to tweak (and hopefully improve) the way features and updates are released. Do you really want to go back to a three year cycle between feature updates? 

      Joe

       

      --Joe

      • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by
         joep517.
      • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by
         joep517.
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      • #137104 Reply

        BobT
        AskWoody Lounger

        Thanks mate. An insightful post.

        I’ll certainly keep it in mind.

    • #137310 Reply

      anonymous

      Absolutely not, for two reasons:

      1) Windows 10 is work in progress, so you basically are a guinea pig for microsoft

      2) Windows 10 privacy is unacceptable, since you basically agree to hand over your computer ot microsoft and use your internet connetion to spread updates

      check my google+ there are ton of reasons to why you should stay away from windows 10:
      https://plus.google.com/communities/102667702288213466275?sqinv=UF9qNVlwaDFtdTJOcnVhM3BmWTd4d3JMaWRCczZ3

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #137417 Reply

        BobT
        AskWoody Lounger

        lol holy ****, MS response to the forced updates:

        Windows 10 is an operating system that will run on a range of devices — from Xbox to PCs, phones to tablets and tiny gadgets — all of which are connected and kept up-to-date by Windows Update. Both enterprises and consumers benefit. The optimum way to ensure our customers are running the best Windows is to get them the latest updates for Windows 10. Delivering Windows 10 as a service means we can offer ongoing security updates, new features and capabilities – we’d like to make sure people can get access to the latest Windows 10 updates as soon as they are available.”

        They really have their heads so far up, they think it’s FANTASTIC that they can virtually walk up to your desk, shove you away from the keyboard not only reboot your PC regardless of what you’re in the middle of, but also change what’s on it, whether you want it or not.

        This isn’t how PERSONAL Computers should work. Shouldn’t be up to ****ing Microsoft when I do updates, it should be ME who decides as it’s MY b***** computer. I really can’t understand their attitude here.

        Then there’s the forcing you onto Win 10 by cutting off support for new processors, and then leaving you in the dust when they become “old”, forcing you again to buy a new one and upgrade. Again this attitude of “Must succeed at all cost” I’ve hated ever since Ribbons. Rather than give you the option to customise something how YOU want it, they have to force only THEIR preferred method, so they can sit and smugly tell everyone about how much of a success something is and how many people are using it.

        There’s only so long people will put up with this sorta thing. It’s really ridiculous. I’ll consider 8.1 but I certainly won’t be moving onto 10. They can build something better in the next couple of years and stop this attitude, or shove it up their..

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #137578 Reply

      anonymous

      my response to who are downplaying windows 10 privacy

      https://autoriteitpersoonsgegevens.nl/en/news/dutch-dpa-microsoft-breaches-data-protection-law-windows-10

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #138951 Reply

      BobT
      AskWoody Lounger

      So I’m going to start reinstalling tomorrow. Deciding to roll with good old Windows 7, as I’m short on time now (less than two weeks) and I KNOW I can get this fully working with no issues and comfortably running 100% how I want it.

      Still unsure about the long run and whether I’ll get much time to go through all this again within two years, but the alternative is running with something I simply don’t want.

      I could probably make do with Win8.1 with a lot of customisation in time, but eventually it will just be in the same situation, since Microsoft only wants everyone on Win10 now. And as to Win10 well, as said they can shove that right up their a***. Just reading the update chaos on the main page here is pure hilarity, how the heck can they expect me to WANT to “upgrade” to that? Oh right, they offered better voice recognition and emojis!………….

      I’ll come back in a couple of years and see if they’ve changed their attitude at all. If not then they can go f*** themselves. It’s my computer and I expect it to work for me, not for MS.

      Anyways, does anyone have links for the latest Group A / B advice? And the updated recommended list of Windows Updates to hide, (I think I have most of the telemetry ones etc hidden already. Just apparently there’s problems with a “Convenience rollup”? As well as the KB971033 Windows Activation update I hadn’t seen listed before, but saw in one of the threads here. I’ve currently got that uninstalled and hidden).

      • #138952 Reply

        PKCano
        Da Boss

        First, the “Convenience Rollup” has problems. I would not use it.

        Before you start, I suggest you read through this topic on the latest findings. The procedure for a Clean Install and how Group A and Group B should be followed are under construction at the moment. All three need revisions.

        I just did a Clean Install starting with Part 1 and Part 2 of the referenced topic. From there I pretty much followed the steps I’ve laid out on this site before. In the end I unhid all the Rollups and installed what was left, thus moving into Group A this time. The ONLY updates I have hidden are the ones associated with telemetry as stated in the topic. At this point I have NO pending updates in the “important updates” list.

        If you read Part 3 of the topic, you will see that, all things considered, I feel Group B is a lost cause. Making huge lists of updates to hide and unhide is shades of GWX (IMOH). Who is going to make and maintain the list? Whose list is correct?

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #138975 Reply

          BobT
          AskWoody Lounger

          I understand the issues around Group B now. D*** Microsoft for making it so complex. Used to be so much better when you could review each patch and decline or accept. Problem is now what happens when they slip telemetry, or even just a single dodgy update into the rollups?

          I understand the issues around having to hide updates and not leaving them sat in the Important section (as some go missing) too, but that’s not a prob as I generally hide the ones I don’t want. Generally it’s the just the telemetry sort of updates I hide, plus any that cause problems or I’m holding off for a week from to watch for any fallout.

          Irritatingly though they’ve been bundling product changes with security patches lately, such as the Search bar in IE appearing in one of the updates with no way to turn it off. I don’t need it! Search is easily done through the Address bar with ?query. Be hard to manage these “feature” changes in future.

          The ones I have hidden currently (before rebuild, and excluding Language Packs and Drivers) are:
          KB971033
          KB3021917
          KB3068708
          KB3080149
          KB2952664 – (The one that led me to start reading Woody’s pages scrutinizing updates heh)
          (This doesn’t include the Convenience update of course as this install is from around 5 years ago).

          I’ll give that link a good read through. Thanks a lot mate. Life used to be so much more simple!

          • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by
             BobT.
          • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by
             BobT.

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