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  • Should I Stay or Should I Go??

    Home Forums AskWoody support Windows Windows 10 Questions: Win10 Should I Stay or Should I Go??

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      • #1943977 Reply
        Razz
        AskWoody Plus

        Hi Guys  – As a new member reading the posts on the August Patch “Spectacular” I am seriously considering taking the Linux plunge. It depends on a number of factors; How long I can keep running my current Nov 2013 ACER E1-572 i7 64 bit Win7 home premium SP1, while in parallel having inherited a Mar 2017 ASUS ROG Strix GL702VS i7 64 bit Windows 10 Home 1607 (and I am not a gamer). Certain work peripherals may also come into play.

        So a key question I would like your help with is if I were to stay with Win 10 on the ASUS what should my upgrade and update route be. I see from Susan’s Master Patch file that I should be going to Win 10 Pro, then after that what are the must haves – mandatory Servicing Stacks etc? Can I by-pass and cover a lot with one or a few Cumulative Updates?

        Thank you and looking forward to your insight.

        Ciao,

        Razz

        ACER E1-572 8GB RAM Intel Core i7 64-bit Win 8.1 Home Premium Office 2013.
        ASUS GL702VS 24GB RAM Intel Core i7 64 bit Win 10 Home 1903 Office 2016.
        LENOVO Yoga 310 4GB RAM Intel Celeron 64-bit Win 10 Home 1903.

      • #1943998 Reply
        b
        AskWoody Plus

        Pro helps if you don’t mind the $99 upgrade fee. But you should get the latest bi-annual feature update and latest monthly cumulative update automatically. The advantage of cumulative updates is that you only need the latest one. Servicing stack updates are also automatic if you use Windows Update, but only appear in installed updates not update history.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #1944852 Reply
          Razz
          AskWoody Plus

          Thanks b, sounds like from other replies on here too, I’ll hardly need the upgrade to PRO

          ACER E1-572 8GB RAM Intel Core i7 64-bit Win 8.1 Home Premium Office 2013.
          ASUS GL702VS 24GB RAM Intel Core i7 64 bit Win 10 Home 1903 Office 2016.
          LENOVO Yoga 310 4GB RAM Intel Celeron 64-bit Win 10 Home 1903.

      • #1944070 Reply
        MrJimPhelps
        AskWoody_MVP

        If your computer has at least 8 GB of RAM, and if you have a retail license for Windows 7, you should install Linux Mint, and you should install a virtual machine program (Oracle VirtualBox or VMWare Workstation Player), and then set up a Windows 7 VM. You can keep Windows 7 running forever as a virtual machine. (You might want to disconnect the VM from the internet in January of 2020, when Windows 7 goes out of support.)

        By having a Windows 7 virtual machine, you can click over to the vm any time you can’t figure out how to do something in Linux.

        Some examples of things you might need Windows for:
        * Microsoft Office
        * Scanning
        * Downloading Youtube videos

        It is likely that sooner or later you will find a way to do everything in Linux that you now need Windows for. Having Windows 7 in a VM gives you a way to work during that learning process.

        Group "L" (Linux Mint)
        with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #1944869 Reply
          Razz
          AskWoody Plus

          Thanks JP,

          I have not made the Linux decision yet but your comments are interesting. As a”normal” non- power user, running a virtual machine is not something I have done before and it sounds like a possible future for the ACER but will need to investigate further – perhaps the subject of a separate post.

          Like you mention I currently use Windows mostly for Office, scanning, and envisage a need for considerable video work whether it involves YouTube or not, so an OS move, with all that entails, won’t be taken lightly.

          All the best.

          ACER E1-572 8GB RAM Intel Core i7 64-bit Win 8.1 Home Premium Office 2013.
          ASUS GL702VS 24GB RAM Intel Core i7 64 bit Win 10 Home 1903 Office 2016.
          LENOVO Yoga 310 4GB RAM Intel Celeron 64-bit Win 10 Home 1903.

          • #1947182 Reply
            Sessh
            AskWoody Lounger

            As far as your comments about deciding whether or not to give Linux a try, it made me use a VM for the very first time which was VirtualBox. Much easier than I expected to use and figure out. Linux Mint is really good. Some things took some extra learning, but nothing was difficult to the point of being frustrating. I was able to get browsers installed + addons, WINE up and working with a few programs installed and working fine, several other programs installed (VLC etc..) and customized my desktop pretty nicely without much hassle. I am pretty sure I could get everything running on there including game emulators and recording software without much trouble, but that stuff can’t be tested on a VM and really needs to be on a hard drive of it’s own for that.

            In short, I would give it a try. Mint is good.

            2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #1975269 Reply
          Razz
          AskWoody Plus

          Jim,

          I am seriously considering taking a leaf out of your book

          https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/windows-update-for-windows-7-after-1-2020/#post-1951467

          and moving the ACER to Win 8.1 and stretch it out to 2023.

          I found the product key for the Win 8 that was preinstalled when the ACER was bought, so I am expecting I should be able to download a fresh copy – although I have not checked it out yet.

          Do you have an opinion on when I should download this fresh copy? Wait until just before support for Win 7 dries up, and Win 8.1 is less buggy; Do it now, i.e. before a Tue patch; Or it does not matter, you could do either?

          Thanks – Razz

          ACER E1-572 8GB RAM Intel Core i7 64-bit Win 8.1 Home Premium Office 2013.
          ASUS GL702VS 24GB RAM Intel Core i7 64 bit Win 10 Home 1903 Office 2016.
          LENOVO Yoga 310 4GB RAM Intel Celeron 64-bit Win 10 Home 1903.

          • #1975270 Reply
            PKCano
            Da Boss

            Win8.1 is the least buggy of all the Windows versions.
            I would recommend you make the move as soon as possible.
            You will need to:
            + Make a full disk image of your computer (so you can fall back if necessary)
            + Make a file backup of all your data (so you can copy it to Win8.1 if successful)
            + Run Speccy and save all the hardware information (you will need different drivers for Win8.1)
            + Make a list of your third-party software (you will probably have to reinstall all)
            + Download the ISO and go ahead and install it. Depending on your license, you may have to nstall Win8, then upgrade to Win8.1

            4 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1944103 Reply
        Sessh
        AskWoody Lounger

        * Downloading Youtube videos

        FWIW, you can absolutely download YT videos in Linux quite easily. There are two methods:

        1. Use the Slimjet (Chromium) browser which has a YT downloader built in to it. It appears as a “Download Video” link under every YT video. Very easy to use and reliable.

        2. Download Youtube-DLG and install it. It takes a few steps, but also very reliable and I did it as a beginner. I use it exclusively in Windows 7 for this purpose. If for some reason it doesn’t work, I have Slimjet as a backup which always works.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #1944281 Reply
          Ascaris
          AskWoody_MVP

          You can also use Firefox or Waterfox with extensions for downloading videos.  I do it from Linux all the time.  I don’t know why it doesn’t work for you, but it’s not a limitation of Linux!

          I seldom need to use my Win 7 VM anymore, but I don’t plan to disconnect it from the net in the times I do use it either post 2020 (it’s already the same as it will then be, as I have not updated it since I created the VM).  Since I do not use it for general browsing or email reading, and it’s behind the “firewall” of being in a VM, not to mention my actual router/NAT/SPI firewall, its exposure to potential malware vectors is quite limited… and if it did pick something up, it would go away as soon as I finish what I am doing on the VM and roll back the snapshot.

          The last time I used a Windows VM, it was to reprogram the key bindings/macros for the extra 13 buttons on my mouse, which only came with Windows software to perform that task.  The mouse has six onboard profiles I can select with one of those buttons, and the rest can be programmed to send single characters or macros without needing any special software on the machine.  The mouse registers itself as both a mouse and keyboard, so as far as the OS I’m using it with is concerned, the mouse button presses are keystrokes from a keyboard.

          Another thing I used Windows VMs for was to be able to use Java (yes, Java, not Javascript) to be able to deposit checks from home without having to use a smart phone.  I can use Java in Waterfox, as it still supports NPAPI plugins, but it’s only 64-bit, and that did not work with the applet that wanted 32-bit.  I then tried what was then the ESR 32-bit Linux Firefox that still allowed NPAPI, and it did successfully run the Java applet.  It just could not see my scanner, since it wants to use TWAIN, and Linux doesn’t usually come set up to do that (most commonly, it uses SANE).  I have read that it is possible to set up TWAIN in Linux, but I decided it was easier to use a VM.

          SANE works beautifully with my scanner, btw, with it working perfectly the moment Linux was installed.  It’s just not what that Java applet wanted.

          To be able to get the check deposit applet working, I now have to use an OLD version of Firefox (the former ESR release is long since expired now) in combination with the security nightmare that is Java– and that’s the only way to make it work, and it’s a bank that requires all of this outdated stuff, the one use case where everyone says to make sure your stuff is updated.  The same bank complains about my outdated Firefox when I go to log in to make a deposit for which that old version is necessary!

          Or at least that was how it was when I last used it, almost a year ago.

          Still, I am not worried when I use the VM for that.  I use that Firefox only to connect to the bank site, and no other browsing takes place within it.  If my bank is the source of the malware, I’m in trouble anyway.  Then I roll it back, like always, so it’s a fresh start next time.  The ease and speed of doing that is one of the great benefits of the VM with an unsupported OS.

           

           

           

          Group "L" (KDE Neon User Edition 5.19.3).

        • #1944344 Reply
          OscarCP
          AskWoody Plus

          I use ClipGrab, an application for downloading videos that works flawlessly with YouTube. With it, I have downloaded, over one year and some months, some tens of GB of video, mostly classical concerts, to my Mac, recreating a library of long play records I used to have years ago and disappeared in transit, when moving house, who knows where or how. By now, I have rebuilt it, and then some. With the added benefit of being able to both hear and see, with much of the downloaded content, the artists performing, as well.

          There is also a version for Linux (Debian/Ubuntu/etc.) I have not tried yet, but it might be worth testing it. I’ll do it when I have a moment, once am done with the present project that these days has my nose pointing to a computer monitor most of the day and a good portion of the of the night.

          https://www.noobslab.com/2017/01/clipgrab-video-downloader-and-converter.html

          To Install ClipGrab in Ubuntu 18.04 Bionic/16.04 Xenial/14.04 Trusty/Linux Mint 19/18/17 open Terminal (Press Ctrl+Alt+T and copy the following commands in the Terminal:
          sudo add-apt-repository ppa:clipgrab-team/ppa
          sudo apt-get update
          sudo apt-get install clipgrab

          Worth a try, I think.

          Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group W (ex B) & macOS + Linux (Mint)

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #1944873 Reply
            Razz
            AskWoody Plus

            I use ClipGrab, an application for downloading videos that works flawlessly with YouTube. With it, I have downloaded, over one year and some months, some tens of GB of video, mostly classical concerts, to my Mac, recreating a library of long play records I used to have years ago and disappeared in transit, when moving house, who knows where or how. By now, I have rebuilt it, and then some. With the added benefit of being able to both hear and see, with much of the downloaded content, the artists performing, as well.

            There is also a version for Linux (Debian/Ubuntu/etc.) I have not tried yet, but it might be worth testing it. I’ll do it when I have a moment, once am done with the present project that these days has my nose pointing to a computer monitor most of the day and a good portion of the of the night.

            https://www.noobslab.com/2017/01/clipgrab-video-downloader-and-converter.html

            To Install ClipGrab in Ubuntu 18.04 Bionic/16.04 Xenial/14.04 Trusty/Linux Mint 19/18/17 open Terminal (Press Ctrl+Alt+T and copy the following commands in the Terminal:
            sudo add-apt-repository ppa:clipgrab-team/ppa
            sudo apt-get update
            sudo apt-get install clipgrab

            Worth a try, I think.

            Old reports on Clipgrab rate it at the same level as malware “The installer of this app is ~loaded~ with crapware which does nice little things like commandeer your homepage and replace your chosen search provider. What is worse: They make it difficult (or impossible) to decline that stuff ! “

            Has this changed??

            ACER E1-572 8GB RAM Intel Core i7 64-bit Win 8.1 Home Premium Office 2013.
            ASUS GL702VS 24GB RAM Intel Core i7 64 bit Win 10 Home 1903 Office 2016.
            LENOVO Yoga 310 4GB RAM Intel Celeron 64-bit Win 10 Home 1903.

      • #1944220 Reply
        joep517
        AskWoody MVP

        Why are you so worried? Have you had problems in the past? Do you have any of the components which were/are troublesome?

        I’ve been responsible for quite a few systems through the years with XP, Vista, Win7, Win8, Win8.1, & Win10. By far most problems with updates I’ve encountered were with XP. Even then I only waited a day or two before installing updates regularly. That has continued through all the various Windows versions. Since XP has been gone from the machines for which I’ve been responsible update problems have virtually disappeared. This is over a variety of hardware and vendors – desktops, luggables, notebooks, tablets, 2-in-1s from Dell, HP, Toshiba and others. The only thing I would say is to make sure you have recent image backups for all your systems. That is the best insurance for update problems. In summary, I wait a day or two to install updates but I never skip updates on machines for which I’m responsible. On my personal PC, I run the latest Windows Insider Preview builds so I’m installing a new version of Windows almost every week. Even being on the bleeding edge with that PC I’ve run into very few issues with updates and normal users would never see them as they would be fixed before general release.

        I would say check out the changes to Windows update in the latest Win10 release before spending the money on Pro. I don’t see the reason most home users should feel compelled to get Pro.

        If you really want to migrate to Linux go ahead. I feel I’ve got better things to do than learn a new OS and its quirks.

        --Joe

        5 users thanked author for this post.
        • #1944227 Reply
          woody
          Da Boss

          The improvements in delaying updates in Win10 1903 have taken away the single greatest reason for going Pro, IMHO.

          3 users thanked author for this post.
          • #1944995 Reply
            Razz
            AskWoody Plus

            Yes thanks Woody, the concensus forming on Win 10 seems to be stick with Home no need for PRO at this time.

            ACER E1-572 8GB RAM Intel Core i7 64-bit Win 8.1 Home Premium Office 2013.
            ASUS GL702VS 24GB RAM Intel Core i7 64 bit Win 10 Home 1903 Office 2016.
            LENOVO Yoga 310 4GB RAM Intel Celeron 64-bit Win 10 Home 1903.

          • #1945690 Reply
            b
            AskWoody Plus

            The improvements in delaying updates in Win10 1903 have taken away the single greatest reason for going Pro, IMHO.

            … and yet today’s AskWoody Newsletter says;

            “Here’s our primary Win10-update recommendation:

            Do not use Win10 Home!

        • #1944992 Reply
          Razz
          AskWoody Plus

          Thanks joep517 for your detailed reply. I am what you describe as a normal user, and a deliberate late adapter too, although I have automatically updated Win patches religiously.  What brought me to AskWoody was some minor(?) loop issue with the August updates. Thankfully, relative to what others describe on here, I’ve had no problems that impacted my work so far. So my history with updates has been relatively pain free and I would like to keep it that way. When a contributor on here alerts me to Microsoft having ditched their internal QA team in 2015, am I worried? no, I just changed my settings to alert me to availability and I will organise downloading and updating having assessed the stance on here with DEFCON ratings and published opinions etc.

          Having spent a career at a Fortune 50 company with responsibility for worldwide QA I think Microsoft’s approach is cavalier, but not surprising, as it is characteristic of the world they ushered in many decades ago. No need to state the obvious here, save to say that there are basic Trust issues between company and consumer.

          In terms of late adaption, the ACER I mentioned had Win 8 preinstalled and having assessed the reported concerns with it, I replaced it with Win 7 back then (and later inserted 4GB RAM to bring it to 8GB). I upgraded to Office 2013 then and found Outlook 2013 had gone backwards in basic search capability versus the 2007 version I was still running. I have actually paid for Microsoft support and found that I know more about what works or doesn’t for some products than the support team in Manila, which is frustrating and time consuming. Back in the 1990s the mainstream media was a buzz with the advances in ICT would give us so much leisure time we would not know what to do with ourselves. Interesting how that has panned out!

          So selfishly or otherwise, I would like a stress free computer interface, and while I am wise to the reality of security and privacy concerns in my own use of computers, I am embarking on a health services business that needs rock solid security and privacy and what OS and Computer setup will give me that remains to be seen, (although Go Ogle’s behaviour with the NHS in the UK has certainly clarified some elements). So I am at a juncture; Microsoft is discontinuing Win 7 Support, I need to decide what to do with the ASUS and assess how all of this will fit with the new business security & privacy. I look forward to your comments on my next post in that regard later, when I have it together.

          Given all that I have on my plate I don’t have much enthusiasm for learning a new OS either.

          All the best

          ACER E1-572 8GB RAM Intel Core i7 64-bit Win 8.1 Home Premium Office 2013.
          ASUS GL702VS 24GB RAM Intel Core i7 64 bit Win 10 Home 1903 Office 2016.
          LENOVO Yoga 310 4GB RAM Intel Celeron 64-bit Win 10 Home 1903.

          2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #1951370 Reply
          Razz
          AskWoody Plus

          Joe –

          Even for an aging pro like you, this thread must give cause for some reflection.

          A non techie like me just wonders how we managed to let this happen.

          https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/windows-update-for-windows-7-after-1-2020/#post-1659318

          https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/windows-update-for-windows-7-after-1-2020/#post-1671444

          Razz

          ACER E1-572 8GB RAM Intel Core i7 64-bit Win 8.1 Home Premium Office 2013.
          ASUS GL702VS 24GB RAM Intel Core i7 64 bit Win 10 Home 1903 Office 2016.
          LENOVO Yoga 310 4GB RAM Intel Celeron 64-bit Win 10 Home 1903.

      • #1944294 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        Hi Razz, I did not read anything in your post that communicated worry or anxiety of any kind. It also looks like you are willing to find your way in Linux systems. You asked about how to pursue a Windows 10 installation on a new-to-you machine that currently has an expired Windows 10 already in place. The upgrade to pro can wait, you will not lose the opportunity to give Microsoft more money.

        My inexperienced opinion is to remove any blocks in place, set any pauses or deferrals to zero. Then restart. After waiting a half hour (arbitrary amount of time), if Microsoft has not seized the opportunity, go full Seeker and select “check for updates”. Let Microsoft decide what is best for that system, according to their own internal algorithms.

        There is a high probability that nothing will go wrong. But if it does, we can attempt to troubleshoot at that time. You can always fall back to getting a new Windows image directly from Microsoft, and start from scratch. Or, you may simply wipe clean and start from that new image immediately.

        Later, you can decide if the Pro version gives additional value to your particular needs. Best of luck to you.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #1945004 Reply
          Razz
          AskWoody Plus

          Thanks, that’s my thinking too. The consensus on here suggests I won’t need PRO. Either way I have some decisions to make around the future of the ASUS with or without Windows and which is the best OS security and Privacy setup for a health service.

          ACER E1-572 8GB RAM Intel Core i7 64-bit Win 8.1 Home Premium Office 2013.
          ASUS GL702VS 24GB RAM Intel Core i7 64 bit Win 10 Home 1903 Office 2016.
          LENOVO Yoga 310 4GB RAM Intel Celeron 64-bit Win 10 Home 1903.

          • #1951430 Reply
            anonymous
            Guest

            Whatever your choice of operating system, it should not be communicating elsewhere without your consent.  Even basic settings for telemetry using any affordable version Windows 10 may be too revealing for use in healthcare.

      • #1944867 Reply
        WSaltamirano
        AskWoody Lounger

        When most of the planet will have moved on Win10 and feel confortable with it, they will stop supporting it and then we are going to get used to Win 11 or wathever they will call it.

        It never stops. It takes a long time for tweaking an OS for average knowledge people and

        then we have to start again. Very annoying !

      • #1951394 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        Hi Razz, did your inherited ASUS Upgrade smoothly from 1607 to 1809 (or other)? Or did it require sterner methods to get a current Win10 up and running?

        • #1951434 Reply
          Razz
          AskWoody Plus

          No action taken yet. I am still weighing up options. I have better things to do with life other than baby-sit a MS-DEFCON status.

          ACER E1-572 8GB RAM Intel Core i7 64-bit Win 8.1 Home Premium Office 2013.
          ASUS GL702VS 24GB RAM Intel Core i7 64 bit Win 10 Home 1903 Office 2016.
          LENOVO Yoga 310 4GB RAM Intel Celeron 64-bit Win 10 Home 1903.

          • #1951456 Reply
            anonymous
            Guest

            Ah yes, you are correct of course that when we discussed this on 9 Sept the lockdown was in place. Sorry that I did not make the connection to the timing. I do still hope you will share the results at the appropriate time. Life is good.

            • #1952082 Reply
              Razz
              AskWoody Plus

              Hi there – I wrote you a very lengthy reply and I don’t know where it went. Perhaps I should write them offline and copy and paste when done.

              Anyway the short version is that the above comment was edited down from one where I went into detail on the options which was wandering away from your question, and I then left the final remark in when it would have been better to remove it. You understandably misunderstood, my reference to the MS –DEFCON status is that I don’t believe any of us should have to cover for Microsoft’s inadequacies, we have better things to be doing.

              The ASUS has not been connected to the internet in a very long time, and because I have a lot to consider I am not rushing into the upgrade and so I am not following the regular patch cycle. I will update the forum for those interested on what I have done at some point, but don’t hold your breath. Unfortunately I am not being more helpful now, and am away behind on stuff.

              Ciao.

              ACER E1-572 8GB RAM Intel Core i7 64-bit Win 8.1 Home Premium Office 2013.
              ASUS GL702VS 24GB RAM Intel Core i7 64 bit Win 10 Home 1903 Office 2016.
              LENOVO Yoga 310 4GB RAM Intel Celeron 64-bit Win 10 Home 1903.

              • #1952145 Reply
                anonymous
                Guest

                Perhaps I should write them offline and copy and paste when done.

                Yes do this, sometimes the site will eat replies.

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