News, tips, advice, support for Windows, Office, PCs & more. Tech help. No bull. We're community supported by donations from our Plus Members, and proud of it
Home icon Home icon Home icon Email icon RSS icon
  • silent reaction with all respect and little joke

    Home Forums Outside the box Rants silent reaction with all respect and little joke

    Viewing 9 reply threads
    • Author
      Posts
      • #2279820 Reply
        doriel
        AskWoody Lounger

        Hello,
        I will rather start new topic here, than cause some kind of problems to Mr. Woody.
        I wanted to say, that according to the latest trend, terms blacklist and whitelist are not valid anymore. As Woody wrote, its more about empathy, which is correct but where this will end?
        https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/unconscious-bias-and-hiring/#post-2279811

        Delete my, account, ban me or whatever you want, but America went really crazy about this and forbidding words like whitelist or blacklist is ridiculous. Can we make toilet paper in rainbow colors so nobody is offended?
        See? These are just words and ANYBODY can understand them as he wants.

        Dell Latitude E6530, Intel Core i5 @ 2.6 GHz, 4GB RAM, W10 1809 Enterprise

        HAL3000, AMD Athlon 200GE @ 3,4 GHz, 8GB RAM, Fedora 29

        6 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2279839 Reply
        Fred
        AskWoody Plus

        Wow, and you still exist here. This must be priviledged in the  shades of 50colors of gray and the correctness

        ~ ~ ~
        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2279841 Reply
        Paul T
        AskWoody MVP

        Words are not forbidden, people are thinking about how they use them.
        People should always think about how they use words, thoughts and deeds. Nothing bad about that.

        cheers, Paul

        4 users thanked author for this post.
        • #2279874 Reply
          doriel
          AskWoody Lounger

          I understand now and I will think about it too now. I wont use these words neither.
          But to be honest, I never thought about using words like these in the dishonest way. I never used that to hurt somebody. And I think most people in IT understands this issue same as I do.

          Dell Latitude E6530, Intel Core i5 @ 2.6 GHz, 4GB RAM, W10 1809 Enterprise

          HAL3000, AMD Athlon 200GE @ 3,4 GHz, 8GB RAM, Fedora 29

          1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2279878 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        Doriel

        I agree that nearly everyone thinks of those word as you and I do. But it’s really not about us. It’s more of a death by a thousand cuts issue. If the word black is always used to indicate something negative or bad, humans internalize that. So it’s not about this one word that we’ve all used for so long. We’re just a speck and an easy one to clean up.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #2279893 Reply
          woody
          Da Boss

          Precisely. Well said!

        • #2279904 Reply
          zasdman
          AskWoody Plus

          Hmm Guess I just think different…

          Black for me is absence of something, like at night the absence of the colors of light makes everything black.

          White is the abundance of something, again like light, the abundance of all colors make white light, day light…

          So a black list on a firewall would be the absence of these items, and a white list is the inclusive of these items…

          This is how the laws of nature work… is nature racist?

        • #2280009 Reply
          wavy
          AskWoody Plus

          If the word black is always used to indicate something negative or bad, humans internalize that.

          Then Black (which no one is) is a poor choice for self reference to begin with. Same thing for White (which no one is).

          🍻

          Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.
          2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2279905 Reply
        firemind
        AskWoody Lounger

        I grew up in a small town that wasn’t very politically correct. Un-pc jokes would fly around but people didn’t take them serious until someone they knew was offended and explained why they were offended. Most of it was just stupid banter but when some complained over “innocent” jokes other pushed back with more c*** bordering on racism. Those of us in the middle felt both sides were overreacting.

        Recently various animated shows decided to not have white voice actors play characters of colour. A voice actor may play men, women, and children of all ethnic groups. They have the vocal skill to create the illusion of a real person. Now the producers have to find “appropriate” voice actors. Producers have money and can do that but it seems over kill. These are cartoon characters.

        So what’s next? Will comic book artists and writers have to stop dealing with characters of other races or genders? Will authors like Stephen King be ostracized if he writes from the viewpoint of a woman or child? Where does it stop?

        If you want to change words change them but be aware that your replacements may get challenged too. Years ago I worked in retail and had to price clothing and the multitude of pins were annoying and i would swear under my breath until I was admonished. I replaced s**t with shazbot but my coworkers knew what I meant so they would still react.

        4 users thanked author for this post.
        • #2279924 Reply
          Paul T
          AskWoody MVP

          You could just use Ow! No-one will be offended then.

          cheers, Paul

          1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2279927 Reply
        OscarCP
        AskWoody Plus

        I don’t believe that censorship by shaming certain usage of words is a good way to improve the way we live together in our societies. This aspect of political correctness confuses words with deeds by giving both an equivalent operational valence. It allows bigoted people to feel good and superior for doing nothing particularly helpful. Or taking any true personal risks in defense of what they declame support for by attempting to negate to others their right to do or say things that are perfectly acceptable. It is the political equivalent of having a dirty mind. Its practitioners remind one of the allegory of the mice that believe that their squeaking makes them equal to roaring lions. It is also a way for the pusillanimous to take cover from such attacks, hypocritically, because they know that what they seem to defend is a falsehood masquerading as righteousness.

        We have too much righteousness and not enough action to truly confront the evils of our time. For this reason I admire those who speak truth without mincing words, such as Greta Thunberg, the climate change activist. Calling a spade a spade is not an attempt to belittle those who shovel dirt, but a way to keep things in their right perspective. And looking for those things that can’t possibly matter to make a mountain of evil out of them to put down imaginary offenders is, quite frankly, a waste of time that won’t move as any closer to a world without glaring inequalities, tragically wasteful wars, or even advance the essential practice of having a civilized and informed discourse on things that matter.

        Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group W (ex B) & macOS + Linux (Mint)

        4 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2280008 Reply
        wavy
        AskWoody Plus

        I will say the blacklist / whitelist ‘problem’ is a stretch … but the old saying “Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me” is not true by any stretch of the imagination. Having been a victim of bullying I know this. Having read Korzybski’s Science and Sanity in high school I know words and how we use them do influence our world view and actions. However I ain’t ever gonna be PC just for the sake of PC.

        🍻

        Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.
        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2280037 Reply
        Charlie
        AskWoody Plus

        I’m a red haired “white” person who got called things like Reds, & Carrot Top.  I never took offense.  I was also very skinny when I was a teenager (before being skinny was considered cool) and got called “Beanpole”, or “Stringbean”.  I guess in addition to being “white”, my skin is also thick.  There are too many Rumplethinskins in the world today.

        Win 7, Sandy Bridge 3.3GHz, Linux Mint 19.1, Klaatu barada nikto

        4 users thanked author for this post.
        • #2280300 Reply
          doriel
          AskWoody Lounger

          Thank you. I was abused too, when I was little child. Living on a suburb in czechia was not easy by any means.
          There were poeple, that were offensive all the time and sometimes they beat up me badly. And you know what? I stood up and fought for myself. I didnt blame other people. I learned, that the best way is to face my fears.
          I learned a lot by fighting for myself. Not blaming others. And this is the point, that I am trying to stress.
          It seems to me, that some people blame others for where they are, but in fact, everybody needs to start by cleaning his own house.
          Its crucial need, that racism will be banished! But always remember..

          I HAVE ALWAYS believed that each man makes his own happiness and is responsible for his own problems.
          – Ray Kroc

          Using words “whitelist” or “blackmail” wont change anything.

          Dell Latitude E6530, Intel Core i5 @ 2.6 GHz, 4GB RAM, W10 1809 Enterprise

          HAL3000, AMD Athlon 200GE @ 3,4 GHz, 8GB RAM, Fedora 29

          5 users thanked author for this post.
          • #2280438 Reply
            OscarCP
            AskWoody Plus

            Most of us get bullied, sometime, and some of us learn to stand up for ourselves. I was and I did. PC, as I see it, is a form of bulling people into acquiescing with the often arbitrary dictates of a diffuse minority whose members are hard to pin down and frequently impossible to face in person. Not all attempts to eliminate things because they are too politically charged are wrong or unnecessary: I believe for example, that having a monument to Jefferson Davis prominently placed in a major city of the United States of America was always a really bad idea. So removing it and maybe later carting it off to some museum so people may learn about it and how it happened to be erected in the first place, is not PC, just plain common sense finally breaking out.

            For my part, I am in the fortunate position where I am rarely subject to PC dictates and then this is more of a nuisance than of a real problem. But, for others I know, it has become an unwelcome part of their daily lives. And there seems to be more more of it around, year after year.

            Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group W (ex B) & macOS + Linux (Mint)

            • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 3 days ago by OscarCP.
            3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2280455 Reply
        Fred
        AskWoody Plus

        For my part, I am in the fortunate position where I am rarely subject to PC dictates and then this is more of a nuisance than of a real problem. But, for others I know, it has become an unwelcome part of their daily lives. And there seems to be more more of it around, year after year.

        I am afraid that you are so right, and with a growing population and disproportional use of wealth and resources these problems will get bigger and bigger since people are not respecting one another and leave some hope to build on for generations to come.

        ~ ~ ~
        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2280478 Reply
        samak
        AskWoody Plus

        Since whitelist and blacklist are not racist terms, I shall continue to use them. Should someone misinterpret that as racism, that is their problem not mine. This nonsense will never stop if you give in to it.

        W7 SP1 Home Premium 64-bit, Office 2010, Group B, non-techie

        4 users thanked author for this post.
    Viewing 9 reply threads

    Please follow the -Lounge Rules- no personal attacks, no swearing, and politics/religion are relegated to the Rants forum.

    Reply To: silent reaction with all respect and little joke

    You can use BBCodes to format your content.
    Your account can't use Advanced BBCodes, they will be stripped before saving.