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  • Slower and slower 4 year old Windows 10 PC – reinstall problem

    Posted on Larry98765Ottawa Comment on the AskWoody Lounge

    Home Forums AskWoody support Windows Windows 10 Questions: Win10 Slower and slower 4 year old Windows 10 PC – reinstall problem

    Topic Resolution: Resolved
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      • #2210236 Reply
        Larry98765Ottawa
        AskWoody Plus

        Hello,

        In the last few months, my system has started to really slow down.
        Examples : In Powerdirector video editor, the video preview stutters
        In PhotoShop Elements 2020, the cursor drags

        Sometimes the system pauses while the disc processes. I did a CHKDSK /f – no change

        However, the Windows Experience Index Score is 8.0. As to the WEI, there is a utility that gives you WEI from winaero.com. I  checked it with Malewarebytes premium.  Can’t be too safe.

        The system is 4 years old. Windows version is 64-bit Windows 10 Home

        I showed the specs to the Tech at the store who built the system and he could see no hardware limitations. He recommended reinstalling Windows from scratch

        I tried following:
        https://www.howtogeek.com/224342/how-to-clean-install-windows-10/

        and got this:
        Windows cannot be installed to this disk The selected disk is of the GPT partition style.

        So 2 questions:

        1. Should I reinstall Windows? – hate to do it as I will have to reinstall a Jillion programs but I think it is inevitable
        2. What should I do about the GPT issue?

         

        Stay well
        Larry

      • #2210289 Reply
        Elly
        AskWoody MVP

        From Easus:

        When you receive “Windows Cannot be installed to this disk. The selected disk is of the GPT partition style”, it suggests that your computer is currently booted in legacy BIOS. To boot to UEFI, you need to check whether the firmware supports UEFI in BIOS and then change to it if the mode is available.

        Microsoft’s information and instructions… including their MBR2GPT tool.

        Easus’s fix.

        Some considerations, depending upon your hardware and software… (per Microsoft):

        Many PCs are ready to use UEFI, but include a compatibility support module (CSM) that is set up to use the legacy version of BIOS. This version of BIOS was developed in the 1970s and provides compatibility to a variety of older equipment and network configurations, and requires a drive that uses the MBR drive format.

        So, do you need the compatability? If not, UEFI may be the way to go, as The GPT drive format lets you set up drives that are larger than 4 terabytes (TB), and lets you easily set up as many partitions as you need.

        Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #2210687 Reply
          bbearren
          AskWoody MVP

          …and lets you easily set up as many partitions as you need.

          Up to 128.  That’s the limit with UEFI/GPT.

          Create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates, in case you need to start over!
          "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns
          "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware

      • #2210295 Reply
        Elly
        AskWoody MVP

        Should I reinstall Windows? – hate to do it as I will have to reinstall a Jillion programs but I think it is inevitable

        It may be that ‘Jillion’ programs that are slowing things down. It might be time to go through them, and eliminate ones that are redundant… and it is likely that with so many programs, that some would benefit from updating, unless you are systematic in applying updates. That could help, too. But definitely eliminate any that you aren’t using.

        W10 uses a lot of RAM- and upgrading RAM is generally less expensive and easier than other fixes. Have you maxed out RAM?

        And… you might look at a new hard drive. Even HDD types have speed differences… but you would see the biggest difference in a SDD drive.

        You didn’t say what the original specs are, so maybe your tech has already maxed out these things… ?

        I’m not techy… and have to follow written instructions, step by step… but I have done clean installs for various friends and family… and maxed out their RAM… and changed out to a faster hard drive, based on their finances… all with good results when done on hardware above minimum suitable for W10. For lower spec hardware, they have all been happy changing to Linux Mint… for a much speedier and responsive system.

        By the way- I don’t physically do the RAM and hard drive changes, because of hand tremor… but even a non-techy directing a non-techy person can have success here!

        There has always been an improvement with a clean install, alone… so yes, it has been worth doing every few years.

        Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter

        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2210339 Reply
        Larry98765Ottawa
        AskWoody Plus

        Response 1
        Hi folks,

        First, lets address the system specs. See below

         

        The information of the Storage taken from System Information
        Item Value
        Drive C: – this is a SDD and is the Boot disk
        Description Local Fixed Disk
        Compressed No
        File System NTFS
        Size 232.26 GB (249,385,897,984 bytes)
        Free Space 82.13 GB (88,190,431,232 bytes)
        Volume Name Windows
        Volume Serial Numb… C29C03E3
        Drive D: This is magnetic
        Description Local Fixed Disk
        Compressed No
        File System NTFS
        Size 2.73 TB (3,000,457,228,288 bytes)
        Free Space 709.97 GB (762,321,399,808 bytes)
        Volume Name ZLarry2016DDrive
        Volume Serial Numb… 346E7D0E

        The system specs extracted from the quote

        Intel Core i5-6600 Quad-Core Processor Socket LGA1151, 3.3Ghz, 6MB L3 Cache, 14nm
        Corsair Carbide Series® SPEC-02 Red LED Window Mid-Tower Gaming Case (CC-9011051-WW)
        Seagate Desktop HDD 3TB 3.5″ SATA3 64MB Cache OEM Hard Drive (ST3000DM001
        ASUS Z170-P Socket 1151 Intel Z170 Chipset • Dual Channel, DDR4, 2x PCI-Express 3.0/2.0 x16,2 x PCI Express 3.0/2.0 x1, 2 x PCI • GLAN, 4x SATA 6
        EVGA 600W 80Plus Bronze Certified Power Supply 3 Year Warranty Intel 4th Gen CPU Ready (100-B1-0600-KR)
        G.SKILL Aegis 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 DRAM 2400MHz C15 Memory Kit (F4-2400C15D-16GIS)
        Samsung 750 EVO 250GB 2.5″ 6Gb/s Solid State Drive (SSD) (MZ-750250BW)
        EVGA GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB GDDR5 (02G-P4-3751-KR) • 1020 MHz Clock, 5400 MHz Memory • PCI Express 3.0, Dual-link DVI, HDMI

      • #2210421 Reply
        Paul T
        AskWoody MVP

        You need to run Resource Monitor and see what is using your system.
        Right click on the Task Bar and select Task Manager > Performance. Take a screenshot and post.
        Select Open Resource Monitor. Use this view to see what is using resources when your machine is running slowly.

        cheers, Paul

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2210465 Reply
        Al Taylor
        AskWoody Plus

        Windows cannot be installed to this disk The selected disk is of the GPT partition style.

        FWIW, I have seen this message (possibly without the “GPT” part) once when the target disk was not set in BIOS to be the first boot device. (For me, in some way the already-installed Windows was figuring this out and still starting up OK.)  When I went to BIOS and set that disk as the first boot device, the message no longer was displayed and I could successfully clean install the “new” Windows 10. (Afterward, as a test I set the BIOS back to where it was, and the “new” install dutifully started OK like the old one had.)

        I’ve also seen a similar message if I highlighted a partition for the new install which was too small (“Windows can’t be installed on Drive 0, partition 1”).  In this instance, I just deleted the partitions which the “old” install occupied, making unallocated space on the disk.  (But to do a step like this wisely, it would be essential to have a backup in case things go South.)

        • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by Al Taylor.
        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2210530 Reply
        Vincenzo
        AskWoody Lounger

        When I see slowdowns one of the first things I do is uninstall the antivirus, whatever brand it is unless. (unless its Defender). This has helped speed many, many, times.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2210562 Reply
        EP
        AskWoody_MVP

        what programs do you have installed on your computer, Larry98765Ottawa?
        maybe look in the Apps & Features section of the Win10 settings window or the classic Programs & Features control panel app (appwiz.cpl)

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2210683 Reply
        Larry98765Ottawa
        AskWoody Plus

        Thanks to all of you for your comments and suggestions.

        As I have been running the same suite of programs over 2 years and the slowdown has only started in the last 4 or so months, I think my only recourse is to reinstall Windows and start with a Carte Blanche.

        This means changing the boot from legacy BIOS to UEFI. Thanks ELLY for the links which I have been exploring.

         

        Then the windows re-install followed by the program suite installations as required – first is Malwarebytes. I have a complete list compiled by Revo Uninstaller PRO.

        In anticipation, all my data will be backed up and I have prepared a recovery disk.

        Once the COVID-19 crisis has passed and the civic and health authorities give the all clear, I will take the box to the computer store and upgrade the C: 250GB SDD windows drive to a terabyte or more. It is amazing how the prices have dropped.

        I will inform this post of the outcome

        Thanks again and STAY WELL!

        Larry

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2210686 Reply
        bbearren
        AskWoody MVP

        Before you go through the reformat/reinstall dance, have you tried an in-place upgrade (repair/reinstall)?

        Booted into Windows as a member of the Administrators group, plug in your Windows 10 installation media (USB or DVD) and run Setup.exe from there.

        I’ve never experienced the “Windows performance falloff” that I’ve heard and about.  I don’t experience any degradation over time.

        Create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates, in case you need to start over!
        "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns
        "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2210690 Reply
        Larry98765Ottawa
        AskWoody Plus

        Looks promising bbearren. – in-place upgrade (repair/reinstall)?

        I shall explore this first.

        Thanks

         

      • #2210695 Reply
        cmptrgy
        AskWoody Plus

        It looks to me like you have 16GB RAM.
        It also looks to me like you need more RAM with all those spec items you mentioned.
        By this time your system resources need more flexibility to perform more efficiently.
        I don’t know how much more RAM would make sense but I wouldn’t hesitate to upgrade to 32GB.
        Consider reviewing Elly’s post #2210295.

        HP EliteBook 8540w laptop Windows 10 Pro (x64)

      • #2210978 Reply
        Rick Corbett
        AskWoody_MVP

        Surely the question you should be asking is… if it all worked fine up until a few months ago then what changed?

        The PC tech apparently said there are no hardware limitations. It’s not clear whether this means there are no problems… a different concept. What exactly did the tech check?

        If the hardware is indeed fine then why not spend a bit of time diagnosing the OS before suddenly deciding on carrying out a clean install?

        For a start, have you checked Reliability Monitor? Just press the Windows key+r key together to open the Run dialog then type perfmon /rel and press Return/Enter. In a few seconds it will show you a graphical overview of critical issues and warnings over a timeline. Change View by: Days to Weeks to show even more information.

        Have you checked Resource and Performance Monitor to get an overview of system diagnostics showing identified issues? Use the Windows key+r key together again but this time enter perfmon /report and wait 60 seconds for the report to be displayed.

        These 2 checks are really quick and will show you if you have any critical issues. If all looks good then I would suggest the next steps would be to determine what processes are running, what the state of the event logs are and whether your PC is experiencing any thermal protection, e.g. CPU being slowed deliberately to prevent overheating. First though, post back what the 2 checks above report.

        Hope this helps…

        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2211098 Reply
        Larry98765Ottawa
        AskWoody Plus

        thanks Rick,

        I planned to upload the following

        2020-03-26 perfmon – report.html

        2020-03-26_11-06-03 Local reliability report week.jpg

        2020-03-26_11-06-03 Local reliability report day.jpg

        2020-03-26 Local reliability report.XML

        but 2020-03-26 Local reliability report.XML is mot allowed – XML and

        2020-03-26 perfmon – report.html is too big

        I have created a limited access Dropdox folder where I have put the 4 files

        https://www.dropbox.com/sh/svn3r6ohchnv7pe/AAA72QCgFs-ADxKarUJzG_L8a?dl=0

        Stay well

        larry

        2020-03-26_11-06-03-Local-reliability-report-day

        2020-03-26_11-06-03-Local-reliability-report-week

        Attachments:
      • #2211135 Reply
        Rick Corbett
        AskWoody_MVP

        I have created a limited access Dropdox folder where I have put the 4 files

        The screenshots of the Reliability Report show an apparent unblemished reliability record up to and including 16th Feb. 2020… then multiple issues afterwards.

        However, the 2020-03-26 Local reliability report.XML file tells a different story. Whilst the Reliability History‘s graph shows errors from 24th Feb 2020 (line 2937) I can also see intermittent critical hardware errors (e.g. 28th October 2019 – line 5858) over a much longer period of time.

        As a result I don’t advise any re-install of Windows until the cause of these hardware errors is determined. It could be as simple as the intermittent insertion of a USB stick with a faulty chip controller… or an indication of bad RAM… or something else entirely.

        IMO the next step is to get more info, not just about the events from 24th Feb. when reliability nosedived but also about the critical hardware errors.

        Are you ready to do some digging into the event logs or do you want to return to the PC tech you visited?

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2211146 Reply
        Larry98765Ottawa
        AskWoody Plus

        Given that the medical and civic authorities tell us to:

        stay well, stay healthy and stay home…

        I am ready to start digging 🙂

        Attachments:
      • #2211160 Reply
        Rick Corbett
        AskWoody_MVP

        Unfortunately Windows’ built-in Event Viewer cannot view multiple logs at once. We could use PowerShell but constructing PS queries is more RetiredGeek’s forte, not mine.

        Try this:

        1. Download/unzip Nir Sofer’s free/portable FullEventLogView. The download links are close to the bottom of the page, just above the translation info. Note that there’s both 64-bit and 32-bit versions so make sure you get the right one (or just use this direct link).

        2. *Right*-click on FullEventLogView.exe, choose Run as administrator then accept the User Account Control prompt by clicking on the Yes button.

        3. Let the listview populate then select Advanced Options from the Options menu.

        4. Change the options shown at a, b and c in the screenshot below then click on OK to return to the listview:

        event_view

        5a. When the listview finishes filtering (it may take a while) have a look at the events from 24th Feb and see if any critical events show a pattern.

        5b. Alternatively, use CTRL+a (to ‘select all’) then CTRL+s (to ‘save’) to create a Comma Delimited Text File (.csv), zip the file and attach it to a post.

        In the meantime, I’ll try making some more sense out of the 2020-03-26 Local reliability report.XML file.

        Hope this helps…

        Attachments:
        3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2211415 Reply
        Larry98765Ottawa
        AskWoody Plus

        Hi Rick,

        I followed your suggestions and could not see anything of significance. More I think to my limited knowledge

        So I have uploaded 3 versions of the log to

        https://www.dropbox.com/sh/svn3r6ohchnv7pe/AAA72QCgFs-ADxKarUJzG_L8a?dl=0

        2020-03-26 FullEventLogView.xlsx

        2020-03-26 FullEventLogView.csv

        2020-03-26 FullEventLogView.txt

        Cheers

        Larry

         

      • #2211508 Reply
        Rick Corbett
        AskWoody_MVP

        So I have uploaded 3 versions of the log

        Wow, those are *big* files. I’ll ignore the 162MB .TXT file and, instead, have a look at the .CSV (47MB) and/or compressed .XLSX (8MB) files.

        In the meantime, I reduced (temporarily) the 2020-03-26 Local reliability report.XML file from 3,623 lines to a more pertinent 22 lines showing *just* the dates/times of critical hardware errors.

        To summarize, there were 22 critical hardware events in the 4 months from Oct. 2019 to January 2020. Unfortunately, the Reliability report does not show *what* hardware was involved. However, this does seem to tie in with your original post that the issues began ‘In the last few months…’.

        Given the number of hardware errors, IMO it’s more important right this moment to identify the hardware involved rather than look at the many, many software issues you are experiencing. It might help determine whether to next look at your PC’s performance (RAM, processes, file I/O, etc.) or to look at possible issues with the filesystem. (I don’t think we yet have enough information to best advise us of the troubleshooting direction to take.)

        I’m going to have a play at my end to see if I can write a script to extract more information about the hardware errors from the Event logs or a commandline argument to automate Nir Sofer’s FullEventLogView. I’ll post the results as soon as I’ve made any progress with either of them.

        In the meantime, I’ve listed the 22 ‘critical hardware error’ date/times below in case they jog your memory or show a recognizable pattern to you. (The ‘T’ in each line below is just the ‘Time’ delimiter).

        
        
        
        
        
        
        
        
        
        
        
        
        
        
        
        
        
        
        
        
        
        

        Hope this helps…

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2211569 Reply
        Rick Corbett
        AskWoody_MVP

        Wow, those are *big* files.

        Sorry but I cannot use the last 3 files uploaded to your Dropbox. I opened the smallest, the .XSLX file, and found it showed *every* event from the last 7 days… and only the last 7 days.

        Windows is notoriously ‘gobby’, which is why it is so important to filter the events before extracting them… otherwise the file dumps are enormous.

        event_view-002

        1. Please re-upload a .CSV and/or .XSLX file after making sure the following filters have been set in Advanced Options:

        Event Levels (shown as a in screenshot) – Make sure that only the first 3 checkboxes are ticked. (The last 3 checkboxes are the ones responsible for the enormous file sizes.)

        Date/Time range (shown as b and c) – Change the dropdown so it shows Show only events in the specified time range (Local Time) then change the *From* date/time below to 24th Feb 2020 at midnight. (It doesn’t matter about the *To* date/time ‘cos that will automatically be the current date/time.)

        2. Click the OK button for the filters to take effect. It may take a minute (or two) before the listview repopulates.

        3. Use CTRL+a (to ‘select all’) then CTRL+s (to ‘save’) to create a Comma Delimited Text File (.csv) and/or Excel (.xlsx) file.

        Let me know when new upload is ready and I’ll have another look.

        Hope this helps…

        Attachments:
        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2211635 Reply
        Rick Corbett
        AskWoody_MVP

        @Larry98765Ottawa – I noticed 3 ‘critical’ issues in the last 7 days of events:

        2020-03-24 5:14:18 PM – “System maintenance detected issues requiring your attention.”

        2020-03-24 8:47:36 AM – Windows boot time took an unusual long time
        2020-03-26 10:55:03 AM – Windows boot time took an unusual long time

        Unfortunately there’s no further info available. Do you have a CD/DVD disk in any optical drive when you boot?

      • #2211893 Reply
        Larry98765Ottawa
        AskWoody Plus

        Do you have a CD/DVD disk in any optical drive when you boot?

        No. In fact, I am amazed how little I use the optical drive.

         

      • #2211982 Reply
        Rick Corbett
        AskWoody_MVP

        No. In fact, I am amazed how little I use the optical drive.

        I asked because having an optical disk inserted prior to booting slows the boot time enormously whilst Windows checks boot-capable devices… one of the issues that your device appears to be experiencing apparently.

      • #2213926 Reply
        Larry98765Ottawa
        AskWoody Plus

        WhooHoo! Thanks to bbearren Before you go through the reformat/reinstall dance, have you tried an in-place upgrade (repair/reinstall)?

        I did that today, took a few hours

        the system is back to its performance

        Thanks again
        Larry

        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2223545 Reply
        Larry98765Ottawa
        AskWoody Plus

        One last comment, my wife is starting the Zoom conferencing with her book club etc so I dusted off the 12 year old Lenovo laptop. It really was slow so I did the repair/reinstall.

        While not a speed demon, the old clunker is now useful

         

        1 user thanked author for this post.
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