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  • So how DO you block the upgrade to Win10 1709

    Home Forums AskWoody blog So how DO you block the upgrade to Win10 1709

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      • #173879 Reply
        woody
        Da Boss

        More than a few people have asked, what with Win10 1703’s new-found ability to upgrade to 1709 all by itself — no Windows Update required — what doe
        [See the full post at: So how DO you block the upgrade to Win10 1709]

        8 users thanked author for this post.
      • #173881 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        I heard that if you blocked the KB4023057 you dont have to deal with 1709 being pushed – is that true?

      • #173885 Reply
        Ascaris
        AskWoody_MVP

        It’s funny (in a sad way) how often Microsoft is being compared with Darth Vader these days, with that particular quote in particular.  Microsoft!  Pay attention!  This is not good.

        Group "L" (KDE Neon User Edition 5.18.5).

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #173934 Reply
          Microfix
          AskWoody MVP

          ‘The dark side CLOUDS everything’ may have something to do with this, hope you are reading this Satya.

          Yoda, we are in need of your wisdom and help..

          Win7 Pro x86/x64 | Win8.1 Pro x64 | Linux Hybrids x86/x64 |
      • #173891 Reply
        PerthMike
        AskWoody Plus

        And we all thought KB2952664 was a nightmare…

        No matter where you go, there you are.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #173896 Reply
        Seattle27
        AskWoody Plus

        I’d be interesting in knowing the steps to disable the tasks mentioned by abbodi86, as I’m pretty sure I barely missed this forced update. I’m only 2 weeks into having windows 10 (1703) and I blithely allowed some ‘updates to Windows 10’ to be installed. Those were, of course, the updates that pave the way for the version change, including 4073543, 4023057, etc. I’ve since uninstalled all of those except for 4056254, which is in my update history under settings, but doesn’t appear in my control panel(?) list of installed updates.

        • #174066 Reply
          abbodi86
          AskWoody_MVP

          KB4023057 is an MSI package, not regular update
          if it doesn’t show up in installed programs, then search for it in this registry path

          HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Uninstall

          then use the command listed in UninstallString to uninstall it

          as for schedule tasks, check Task Scheduler for the tasks

          “Microsoft\Windows\UpdateOrchestrator”
          “Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate”

          but some of them are permission blocked, so use NSudo to launch taskschd.msc

          3 users thanked author for this post.
          • #174238 Reply
            anonymous
            Guest

            So here is my idea, Would it work creating a scheduled task to run that command at every boot and/or try to setup another periodic scheduled trigger to attempt removing KB4023057?

      • #173916 Reply
        radosuaf
        AskWoody Lounger

        All this mess shows that with Windows 10 you’re fighting with your operating system instead of using it. The benefits over W7 or W8.1 would have to be ENORMOUS to justify that. They aren’t.

        MSI H110 PC MATE * Intel Core i5-6402P * 2 x 8 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2133 MHz * Aorus Radeon RX 570 4GB * Samsung 840 EVO 250GB SSD * Western Digital Blue 1TB HDD * Seagate Barracuda 1TB HDD * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer PCI * Windows 10 Pro 2004 64-bit
        7 users thanked author for this post.
      • #173921 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        It almost happened to me too! I had that KB hidden, but it seems to have reappeared and almost forced 1709 down my computer’s throat!? What is Microsoft doing!?

      • #173935 Reply
        ch100
        AskWoody_MVP

        I would present a different point of view here.

        Those who are on Windows 10, are either on board the ship or they are off.

        What is the issue? Why are you guys/gals on Windows 10 not already on the 1709 version?

        The other category is those people who are still on legacy software by choice (Windows 10 upgrade is/was free) and they should not actually participate to this debate at all.

        • #173941 Reply
          radosuaf
          AskWoody Lounger

          Because one day we may be forced to use it anyway. I have activated my W10 Pro license and it’s waiting… Since I have no Windows 10, I can’t have my say on Feedback Hub, so I leave it here :).

          MSI H110 PC MATE * Intel Core i5-6402P * 2 x 8 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2133 MHz * Aorus Radeon RX 570 4GB * Samsung 840 EVO 250GB SSD * Western Digital Blue 1TB HDD * Seagate Barracuda 1TB HDD * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer PCI * Windows 10 Pro 2004 64-bit
          2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #173980 Reply
          MrJimPhelps
          AskWoody_MVP

          …they should not actually participate to this debate at all.

          I must respectfully disagree. Everyone who gives a thoughtful, honest response is welcome to participate in this debate, even those of us who are “still on legacy software by choice”.

          I have Windows 10 at my job, and I have Windows 7 and 8.1 at home (by choice). I have been in IT support for decades, and have pretty much seen it all, going back all the way to DOS 3.3.

          So here is a question for you, ch100, and I ask it with all due respect: Why should I not participate in this debate?

          Group "L" (Linux Mint)
          with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
          6 users thanked author for this post.
        • #174319 Reply
          anonymous
          Guest

          “What is the issue? Why are you guys/gals on Windows 10 not already on the 1709 version?”

          Maybe the pointless 1709 upgrade won’t install on their PCs.
          I’ve had to break out my W10 Pro 1703 VM backup, because 1709 destroyed the previous 1703 VM.
          I have to re-image my W10 Home laptop because 1709 destroyed 1703.

          MS’ official fix-it tools can’t solve the issues.

          The most effective way to block these dodgy updates/upgrades is too disconnect W10 from your network and use Linux, Mac or previous versions of Windows to browse the Internet.

          -lehnerus2000

          2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #174369 Reply
          Noel Carboni
          AskWoody_MVP

          I would present a different point of view here.

          Those who are on Windows 10, are either on board the ship or they are off.

          What is the issue? Why are you guys/gals on Windows 10 not already on the 1709 version?

          The other category is those people who are still on legacy software by choice (Windows 10 upgrade is/was free) and they should not actually participate to this debate at all.

          I found that disappointing to read.

          By contrast, I encourage everyone to express your views about things you feel are not right, and stick to your guns. If anyone tries to marginalize your opinions or exclude you from a conversation about something you care about, I suggest you respond by raising the volume. Don’t be bullied into accepting what’s bad as the new good. You are not alone.

          -Noel

          7 users thanked author for this post.
        • #174475 Reply
          MrJimPhelps
          AskWoody_MVP

          Noel, is ch100 saying that you shouldn’t participate in the debate? Bummer. You strike me as someone who is very knowledgeable in these matters.

          Group "L" (Linux Mint)
          with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
          2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #174508 Reply
          Cascadian
          AskWoody Lounger

          Just to throw a line out onto the water. As I do not wish ch100 to feel excluded by vote either. Is it possible that when ch100 writes:

          and they should not actually participate to this debate at all.

          There could have been frustration that prevented him from his usual reference based, informed correction. Or there may have been a Swift like satire intended. I appreciate exchange of view, even views I do not agree with. But a call for prohibition is a bit too far.

          ch100, your comment has stood for more than a day, a second working day, and has had some response. Would you care to clarify? Or stand as written?

        • #174800 Reply
          wdburt1
          AskWoody Plus

          ch100: So we have advanced to silencing the critics and dissenters?

      • #173937 Reply
        John
        AskWoody Lounger

        Well we all know that Windows 10 has become the red headed step child of operating systems. You can tell him no, but he will still get his way some how. I have resolved myself to the fact that my Windows 10 PC is not mine anymore, its Microsoft’s. I have somehow accepted in all the gibberish EULA that Microsoft can do whatever it wants to my PC.

        • #174017 Reply
          Ian Gerald
          AskWoody Lounger

          The only credible solution to MS’s forced update issue is a class action suit, which if they lost, would be a pr disaster for them. Although it may take some time to implement, the individual law suits that have currently been settled are chum change for MS and utterly useless

          IGS

          3 users thanked author for this post.
          • #174019 Reply
            PKCano
            Da Boss

            I think their EULA says you can’t sue them. Any grievance can be “arbitrated (by them),” but you have to take your lawyer and the grievance to them. And it can’t be combined with other like-complaints.

            That in non-legal speak.

            1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #174724 Reply
              anonymous
              Guest

              It all depends on the jurisdiction. If the EULA fails to comply with your country/state laws, the way to the court is always open. Agreed, Windows users in the United States are somewhat limited in their legal options. However, if the arbitration fails, users in the United States can go to court as well — and a number of folks have done already, and Microsoft had to pay for damages.

              1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #174225 Reply
          Cascadian
          AskWoody Lounger

          Ginger haired children of a broken home will likely be the last unprotected minority before people give up on such things. To bad the old saying just rolls off the tongue so easily.

      • #173942 Reply
        b
        AskWoody Plus

        So how DO you block the upgrade to Win10 1709]

        Defer feature updates for a year, but don’t set telemetry to zero.

        Windows 10 Pro Version 2004: Group ASAP (Pioneer/Chump)

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #174060 Reply
          woody
          Da Boss

          Defer feature updates for a year, but don’t set telemetry to zero.

          I hope that works, but we have reports here that folks with Basic telemetry were getting pushed to 1709 anyway.

          It’d sure be nice if Microsoft told us what was happening. Perhaps they’ve called off the dogs with the new version of KB 4023057 .

          • #174689 Reply
            rc primak
            AskWoody_MVP

            Woody, so far, this has worked on both my 32-bits tablet and my 64-bits Intel NUC PC, both running Windows 10 Pro ver. 1703. Since setting the deferral to 365 days, I can prevent the 1709 upgrade completely, as long as I am running Windows Updates from the Settings pane.

            I also noticed the past two months, that if I keep my connection metered, I can safely pause updates for 30 days or so, then unpause, and nothing downloads. I run wushowhide to hide any untested updates or driver updates, and unhide anything which is now safe to install. Then unmmeter the connection and let Windows Update fly as usual.

            No surprises so far using this scheme. This includes the February 2018 MS Updates.

            BTW, when will we get the Ask Woody green light to apply the 1709 upgrade? Hopefully before the 1803 upgrade comes at us.

            -- rc primak

      • #173958 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        To the person with the differing view and asking why we are not all on 1709 already the answer in my case is the upgrade fails!  So I have a nag screen and no options.  1703 is working fine, I’m happy to receive security updates, I don’t need more functionality so just stop with the forced upgrades, or at least give a simple way to disable them.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #173964 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        So how DO you block the upgrade to Win10 1709

        Install Linux!

        4 users thanked author for this post.
      • #173992 Reply
        John in Mtl
        AskWoody Lounger

        Well we all know that Windows 10 has become the red headed step child of operating systems. You can tell him no, but he will still get his way some how. I have resolved myself to the fact that my Windows 10 PC is not mine anymore, its Microsoft’s. I have somehow accepted in all the gibberish EULA that Microsoft can do whatever it wants to my PC.

        Somehow, ‘ole Winston Churchill’s words still resonate with me. “We will defend our land and our skies…  …We shall never Surrender!“. So, stuffit, Microsoft!

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #173995 Reply
        MrBrian
        AskWoody_MVP

        I have an idea that I haven’t tested yet (I don’t have a Windows 10 virtual machine currently). In Windows one can stop any executable from running by using the Image File Execution Options Debugger registry method. The idea is that we use this method to stop these executables from running:

        usoclient.exe

        windows10upgraderapp.exe

        usoclient.exe is responsible for Windows 10 automatic updates per https://www.ghacks.net/2017/12/03/allow-only-manual-updates-on-windows-10/. windows10upgraderapp.exe is the Windows 10 Update Assistant.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #174009 Reply
          MrBrian
          AskWoody_MVP

          Somebody else already had the same idea! Warning: I didn’t write nor have I tested this script: https://pastebin.com/gNsLEWJe.

          • #174028 Reply
            MrBrian
            AskWoody_MVP

            This script appears to use the Image File Execution Options Debugger registry method on all executables specified in the set “exe= lines. One executable that isn’t listed but perhaps could be is remsh.exe (reference). This script appears to also nuke Microsoft Compatibility Appraiser telemetry by stopping the running of compattelrunner.exe.

            2 users thanked author for this post.
            • #174050 Reply
              woody
              Da Boss

              I’m worried about side effects. Any idea?

              1 user thanked author for this post.
              • #174063 Reply
                MrBrian
                AskWoody_MVP

                I’m testing it on Windows 7 now. Hopefully somebody with a Windows 10 virtual machine can test it. It’s very simple to use. Each run of the script toggles the blocking enabled/disabled status of the various executables. I think the two executables that I mentioned in the first post are the essential ones for blocking automatic updates in Windows 10, but perhaps there are others.

                In general, the Image File Execution Options debugger method is the cleanest method that I have seen. It doesn’t rely on changing executables, changing permissions, altering tasks, or disabling services.

                3 users thanked author for this post.
              • #174257 Reply
                anonymous
                Guest

                I don’t need a virtual machine to test this fix. >:}

                1 user thanked author for this post.
              • #174284 Reply
                anonymous
                Guest

                Windows 10 1607 preliminary testing…

                The batch file ran as programmed, Windows Defender updating works and more importantly the wushowhide.diagcab tool still works. I have to wait to be certain if CompatTelRunner has been deservedly silenced forever!

                2 users thanked author for this post.
              • #174586 Reply
                anonymous
                Guest

                Yeah the Image execution options hack fixed it! The solution was so simple and elegant.

                2 users thanked author for this post.
              • #174641 Reply
                MrBrian
                AskWoody_MVP

                “Yeah the Image execution options hack fixed it! The solution was so simple and elegant.”

                Thank you for the report :). Are you the same poster that posted “Windows 10 1607 preliminary testing…”? If yes, then by “it” did you mean that as a reference to “CompatTelRunner has been deservedly silenced forever!”?

                1 user thanked author for this post.
              • #174718 Reply
                anonymous
                Guest

                Yes and Yes. The frequent enough simultaneous telemetry gathering and antivirus software activity was aging my hard drive age faster due to the resource conflicts.

                2 users thanked author for this post.
              • #174100 Reply
                MrBrian
                AskWoody_MVP

                The script seems to successfully block both automatic updates and updates manually installed with Windows Update in Windows 7. I can also confirm (via regedit) that the script sets various entries within Image File Execution Options, and that the disable toggle successfully removes what it previously set.

                When I get a Windows 10 virtual machine to test this with, I might alter the script to block just UsoClient and Windows10UpgraderApp and see if that’s sufficient.

                1 user thanked author for this post.
              • #174155 Reply
                woody
                Da Boss

                Have you seen this?

                https://www.askvg.com/fix-how-to-stop-automatic-forced-upgrade-to-feature-updates-in-windows-10/

                It’s Vishtal Gupta’s Registry changes to block updating. Look like this:

                 

                ;Created by Vishal Gupta for AskVG.com

                [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate]
                “DisableOSUpgrade”=dword:00000001

                [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\OSUpgrade]
                “AllowOSUpgrade”=dword:00000000
                “ReservationsAllowed”=dword:00000000

                [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\WindowsStore]
                “DisableOSUpgrade”=dword:00000001

                [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\Setup\UpgradeNotification]
                “UpgradeAvailable”=dword:00000000

                Thx PhotoM

                4 users thanked author for this post.
              • #174278 Reply
                Cybertooth
                AskWoody Plus

                @Woody, there are so many different proposed methods for stopping Windows 10 “updates” and “upgrades” that my head is spinning.

                Would it be worth having a dedicated Knowledge Base article (similar to the Group A/B patching instructions) that’s periodically updated with the “latest and greatest” blocking methods? As new information is constantly emerging and it’s scattered among a variety of threads, it might be good to have a single unified place that AskWoody.com users can consult for the most up-to-date information.

                Maybe one of the new MVPs could take this on as their specialty.

                My embarrassed apologies if this has already been done and I missed it…

                 

              • #174283 Reply
                PKCano
                Da Boss
              • #174350 Reply
                MrBrian
                AskWoody_MVP

                “Would it be worth having a dedicated Knowledge Base article (similar to the Group A/B patching instructions) that’s periodically updated with the “latest and greatest” blocking methods?”

                When I get a Windows 10 virtual machine set up again, I will test and post results.

                At the moment, without having done any Windows 10 testing in the past few months, my leading contender would be turning off automatic updates by blocking execution of usoclient.exe and probably also windows10upgraderapp.exe using the Image File Execution Options debugger method, and using Windows Update Minitool to check for and install updates.

                1 user thanked author for this post.
              • #175187 Reply
                MrBrian
                AskWoody_MVP

                My current thinking, without having done any Windows 10 testing in the past few months, is that my leading contender would be turning off automatic updates by blocking execution of usoclient.exe and updateassistant.exe using the Image File Execution Options debugger method. Updates would be installed manually using either using 1) Windows Update Minitool, or 2) wushowhide followed by checking for updates with Windows Update.

            • #182267 Reply
              anonymous
              Guest

              @Brian. @Woody, – Pastebin.com blocking script updated today:

              link: https://gist.github.com/AveYo/234d561dec43abc6c41f43d223a87170

              There are different versions, for blocking Installs (toggle right-click desktop)
              and version for blocking downloads (toggle right-click desktop)
              both with created task (schtask) for Defender def. download while blocking!

              Gordon7.

              2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #174862 Reply
            MrBrian
            AskWoody_MVP

            I just noticed that the author has changed the script within the past few days. It was at v2.1 a few days ago; now it’s at v2.2.

            Also, when I looked at the script logic, I noticed an unfixed bug: the cleanup_orphaned subroutine can fail to clean up a given orphaned item (from a previous version) because the string used in the string comparison isn’t space-padded on both sides.

        • #174354 Reply
          MrBrian
          AskWoody_MVP

          If you don’t want to use somebody else’s script, you can use regedit to manually add the executables that you want to block. See https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/windows-ifeo-debugger-gwx-more.html or https://blog.malwarebytes.com/101/2015/12/an-introduction-to-image-file-execution-options/ for more details.

          2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #175004 Reply
          MrBrian
          AskWoody_MVP
      • #173999 Reply
        John in Mtl
        AskWoody Lounger

        I’m glad Windows 7 and 8.1 still have plenty of life left in them

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #174012 Reply
          MrJimPhelps
          AskWoody_MVP

          Windows 8.1 has five years of life left in it. And if you install Classic Shell, you can configure it to make Windows 8.1 look and feel exactly like Windows 7.

          If you are a die-hard Windows 7 person, and you want to have a supported install of Windows 7 for as long as you possibly can, Windows 8.1 with Classic Shell is your best bet.

          Group "L" (Linux Mint)
          with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
          6 users thanked author for this post.
          • #174200 Reply
            HiFlyer
            AskWoody Plus

            Windows 8.1 has five years of life left in it. And if you install Classic Shell, you can configure it to make Windows 8.1 look and feel exactly like Windows 7. If you are a die-hard Windows 7 person, and you want to have a supported install of Windows 7 for as long as you possibly can, Windows 8.1 with Classic Shell is your best bet.

            Amen brother.  Been using it for over a year.  Super!

             

            3 users thanked author for this post.
          • #174378 Reply
            James Bond 007
            AskWoody Lounger

            Windows 8.1 has five years of life left in it. And if you install Classic Shell, you can configure it to make Windows 8.1 look and feel exactly like Windows 7.

            If you are a die-hard Windows 7 person, and you want to have a supported install of Windows 7 for as long as you possibly can, Windows 8.1 with Classic Shell is your best bet.

            Exactly what I am doing. My systems have both Windows 7 and 8.1 (both with Classic Shell) installed, and I intend to continue to use them at least until the end of support of both OS, in January 2020 and January 2023 respectively.

            If we want to continue using Windows 8.1 natively for that long, we must be careful to source hardware that is still supported by Windows 8.1. Note that :

            (1) AMD no longer provides Windows 8.1 drivers for its new AMD graphics cards, the RX5xx and Vega, meaning that if you want to use Windows 8.1 you may not be able to use these and future AMD cards. The new Ryzen 2200G and 2400G (new CPUs with Vega integrated graphics) apparently have no 7 and 8.1 drivers.

            (2) Intel only supports Windows 8.1 (and 7) up to the 6th generation CPU (Skylake) graphics. 7th (Kaby Lake) and 8th (Coffee Lake) generation CPU graphics are only supported officially with Windows 10.

            (3) For now Nvidia still provides Windows 8.1 drivers for its graphics cards, but we don’t know if, and for how long, Nvidia will still support future generations of graphics cards in Windows 8.1 (and 7).

            Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst.

            1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #173989 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        Question:
        “– set Automatic Update policy to disabled or notification”
        – disable UpdateOrchestrator and WindowsUpdate schedule tasks”

        Are these only for PRO versions?

        • #174003 Reply
          PKCano
          Da Boss

          Yes. Pro version. They are Group Policy settings for automatic updates.
          Task scheduler is available to Home

          2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #174034 Reply
        EstherD
        AskWoody Plus

        Those who are on Windows 10, are either on board the ship or they are off.

        Patent nonsense.

        When you buy a car, do you purchase every option the dealer thinks you should have? Or do you pick and chose among them, selecting only those which are useful to you?

        When you vote for someone for elected office, does that vote require you to agree with every decision s/he makes? Or do you support some decisions and reject others?

        ‘Nuf said.

        7 users thanked author for this post.
      • #174061 Reply
        johnf
        AskWoody Lounger

        First, would changing a registry key block the updates? (like the issue with Anti Virus programs not installing that key a while ago…see the link)

        https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/microsoft-says-no-more-windows-security-updates-unless-avs-set-a-registry-key/

        Second, while a lot of users here have decided to keep control of hardware they actually purchased (by going to Linux/Mac/Chromebooks), they still have to work in an environment where Windows is the standard, and may have to support those PC’s for work or friends.

        We’re the ones who have to fix the mess when an update is forced, and either disables a printer or other third party device that was working fine under 1703.

        The facts are that Microsoft fired their testing staff, so in most cases they are shipping out either half baked beta or even alpha software that has in many cases bricked PC’s (the Spectre fiasco where AMD machines got borked), disabled anti-virus, or removed programs it “thought” were a threat . Then sent a patch for “machines that couldn’t boot”. Uh, if it booted, why do we need that patch, and how could we apply it?

        So yeah, we need to be in the discussion.

        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #174120 Reply
          MrJimPhelps
          AskWoody_MVP

          With all of their billions in profit, they fired their testing staff! That will go down as one of the worst decisions Microsoft has ever made.

          If you are going to have a constantly changing Windows, you need to increase your testing staff dramatically, not cut it. IF they would do that, then they MIGHT be able to make this work. But without an adequate testing staff, they have set themselves up for a huge fall. From the King of the Hill to a has-been.

          Group "L" (Linux Mint)
          with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
          4 users thanked author for this post.
      • #174069 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        I have just finished downloading and installing Feb. updates as per Def Con 3 a couple of hours ago.  I’m running 1607 and all those updates installed successfully. However I have 45 “failed to install version 1709” alerts in my update history.  This happens every month so I’m not concerned about updating to 1709, because it never installs!! I guess I should be thankful?

        • #174271 Reply
          anonymous
          Guest

          If you are familiar with the game Monopoly, this failure to install 1709 counts as a get out of jail free card.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #174097 Reply
        Microfix
        AskWoody MVP

        One thing I did notice in W8.1 on our system was that sometime between November 2017 and March 2018, the Diagnostic Tracking Service had renabled (when I specifically disabled and removed it in October 2017). Considering that Microsoft rely on telemetry on any upgrade in W10, perhaps this may be a contributing factor? Thoughts or has anyone else noticed this?

        Being Group A may also need a list of additional checks..

        How to disable the Diagnostic Tracking service as follows:

        Open an elevated command prompt and run the following commands:

        sc stop Diagtrack
        sc delete Diagtrack

        Win7 Pro x86/x64 | Win8.1 Pro x64 | Linux Hybrids x86/x64 |
        • #174098 Reply
          abbodi86
          AskWoody_MVP

          Diagtrack has not been updated for Win 7/8.1 since October 2016
          so, updates has nothing to do with restoring it

          running SFC /scannow or DISM /RestoreHealth can restore it

          3 users thanked author for this post.
          • #174104 Reply
            Microfix
            AskWoody MVP

            That will be the cause then, SFC/ scannow or SFC verifyonly, I did this in early January.

            Win7 Pro x86/x64 | Win8.1 Pro x64 | Linux Hybrids x86/x64 |
          • #174119 Reply
            abbodi86
            AskWoody_MVP

            If you only disabled Diagtrack without deletion, it probably would not be reverted 🙂

            3 users thanked author for this post.
            • #174131 Reply
              Microfix
              AskWoody MVP

              abbodi86, I definately stopped and then removed Diagtrack due to the output stating that ‘the specified service does not exist as an installed service’ which at the time, was what I wanted to achieve. Strange..

              Win7 Pro x86/x64 | Win8.1 Pro x64 | Linux Hybrids x86/x64 |
              • #174230 Reply
                Cascadian
                AskWoody Lounger

                Microfix, I think what abbodi86 means is that the deleting is what was repaired by reloading and subsequent activation. Stopping would leave the file in place, so no repair would have been made.

                2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #174107 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        I have been offered the 1709 upgrade and Windows Update in fact tried to download and installed it, but I power cycled my laptop to force it to stop (Yes, I am in fact THAT aggressive not to be upgraded without my permission; in fact, I do NOT want to upgrade Windows any longer, because I am sick and tired of this -bleep-). I later was able to hide the upgrade using wushowhide, and for added protection I’ve set my connections to metered and have disabled the entire Windows Update service.

        Honestly, I am quite at a loss of what to do. I cannot get the security patches I want anymore; according to Microsoft, I either hop on board their insane upgrade cadence every six months or have an unpatched computer. Why on earth, as a paying customer, am I being forced to choose? Microsoft should be serving me, not me serving Microsoft.

        Getting a Chromebook is becoming of increasing priority for me since most of my work takes place in the cloud; however, of course, I still need Windows for a wide variety of applications. So thank you, Microsoft, for being so incredibly… ugh! I don’t even know what to say! I think I’ve said enough about my distaste for Microsoft these days. Why oh why… the kerfuffle with Windows Vista wasn’t nearly as bad as this!!!

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #174124 Reply
          MrJimPhelps
          AskWoody_MVP

          Get Linux, Chrome, Mac, or whatever. Then set up a Windows 10 virtual machine for those things that you must have Windows for. If you have 8 GB or more of RAM, you won’t even notice that you are running 10 in a virtual machine; it will seem like the host system.

          Or, better yet, install Windows 8.1 with Classic Shell in a virtual machine. With Classic Shell, you can configure Windows 8.1 to look and feel exactly like Windows 7, so much so that you won’t know you are using 8.1. Best of all, you’ll get security patches for five more years — till January 2023. When January 2023 arrives, you can decide at that point if you want to keep using your 8.1 vm – perhaps you could disconnect it from the internet and use it as a standalone vm, to minimize or eliminate security risks.

          Group "L" (Linux Mint)
          with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
          3 users thanked author for this post.
          • #174181 Reply
            Karlston
            AskWoody Plus

            Or even better yet, install Windows 8.1 as your primary OS and if you want/need to, install Windows 10 in a VM.

            Seriously, the best W7 upgrade is Windows 8.1 + Stardock Start8 (or similar) + Stardock WindowBlinds (optional). Stable, mature, and under your control.

            A great way to avoid Microsoft’s unconscionable GWX (v1709) bullying.

            Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

            1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #174802 Reply
            wdburt1
            AskWoody Plus

            “Best of all, you’ll get security patches for five more years — till January 2023.”

            Given the trouble with patches lately, is this too optimistic?

             

          • #174901 Reply
            anonymous
            Guest

            My 2 cents:

            We had a Windows 7 machine whose hard drive crashed after being run 16+ hours/day for over five years.  We bought a new machine (that came with Windows 10) to replace it.  So I thought to myself, “This ‘old’ machine has a quad-core, Intel i5 processor and 8 GB RAM.  It might make a pretty nice Linux box with a new hard drive.”  I bought a new Western Digital 1 TB drive and replaced it, and installed Linux Mint 18.3 with the Cinnamon desktop this weekend.

            I could not believe how easy it was.  My major challenges were:

            • Mapping to the external hard drive that is plugged into the network router – not trivial, but doable once you figure out
            • Getting the WiFi-connected printer working – once I had the Linux drivers for it and figured out what to do with install.sh, that went fine.

            So far, I have found software that can replace anything I have been using from Microsoft.  All those Word/Excel files work just fine with LibreOffice.  I even found a replacement for the (admittedly out-of-support) Microsoft Money (Gnucash).  iTunes is a big stumbling block, but Apple has been making iTunes less and less relevant as time goes on.  I am still using it mainly to keep my phone backed up.

            Moving to Linux really isn’t that hard.  And for less than $100, I have that shiny-new-toy feeling again!  I’m hanging onto my other Windows 7 box for the time being, but this weekend the “new” Linux machine became my primary desktop machine.

            2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #174138 Reply
          anonymous
          Guest

          Also DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO DISABLE WINDOWS UPDATE COMPLETELY on Home version than just going to services, disable and stop onlyfor hours later at 12pm something demand starts it back up!?

          I’m about to make my computer go off the grid to keep WINDOWS/MIRCOSOFT FROM HURTING MY BABY!

      • #174158 Reply
        Flashorn
        AskWoody Plus

        Hey All.

        New to the comments but, have been watching Woody grow ever since this site was up so, Many Years. Look forward every day to see what’s what.

        I was happy with W7 on my Eurocom until it died on me last March. Am now on a MSI 73GTVR 7RE Titan with W10 which started as 1607 and am now on 1703.

        I was playing a game last week and all of a sudden the game stopped and all programs,including STEAM shut down. Then , I see this small window in the middle of the screen telling me that, “in order to install security patches, I have to upgrade to the latest version of Windows”. I new darn well that they {MS} were trying to install the Specter patch and to upgrade to 1709 so, like the other poster said earlier, I too, shut down the notebook and restarted it but, now, I had a .exe icon on my desktop. Right clicked on it so see the folder location which was on root C. I immediately deleted that folder and the icon on the desktop.

        Sorry for the long intro but, I thought it relevant.

        Now, I use wudiagcab to control which updates are installed every month. So far, that worked well until last week when MS installed the latest patches even though Windows Update is disabled And I also use the latest version of Shutup10.

        So, I fooled around with processes and found that when I disabled Windows Event Log, I have a very quite PC. No more updates trying to install. If I enable the same service, everything comes back to normal and the updates work again.

        Yes, there are draw backs to this like, no Network icon on the Taskbar but, you are still connected to the net and no updates show in the Update History or in the Installed Updates. Also, if you happen to have EMET installed, it will not start. By re-enabling Windows Event Log, everything comes back and I can install the updates when they are deemed to not destroy my/your PC.

        Defender will update on a daily basis and keep it’s scanning schedule. There might be other side effects to this option but, as far as MY PC is concerned I don’t have any other ones.All my programs work with the exception of EMET.  Also, no more interruptions from MS and no more stuttering or loss of frame rates in games when Windows intrudes on my play time. As far as that “Game Mode” is concerned well, it doesn’t work and I did the “Active Hours” thing but, as you know, MS doesn’t seem to care about that either.

        You might want to evaluate this option on your PC to see if you get the same results.I, for one , will keep this process disabled until it’s time to update.

        What a piece of trash this is.

        Flashorn

        • #174199 Reply
          anonymous
          Guest

          What can i do about Win10upgrade folder? I stopped the process last night by shutting down the computer and hiding the KB that caused it and such.

          Also I always disabled/stopped Windows update in Services, but it would seem at 12pm or so it restarts itself. And I always have to turn it off and stopped.

          So far I found tha tturning off the wifi will keep any updates from installing in case.

          BUT AGAIN What is a permanent way to control and keep things under control with WU even if you got WUHide, services turn off/stop and whatnot.

      • #174229 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        Ugh! No good my tactic of turning off wifi and trying to hide/stop the windows update has failed. It’s happening again-BUT THIS TIME I am taking it head on! Forget it! If my WORK’S PC and My dad’s PC WITH 1709 installed okay on their machines, The same will work for me too-If anything I’ll come back here if I need assistance and search around.

        See you on the other side guys-I’m taking this 1709 demon head on! WITH LUCK AND courage in my heart-I won’t let WIndows/Microsoft s***w me! THe moment it updates, THE SECOND I stop/disable/hide the updates-but in reverse: hide/disable/stop

      • #174275 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        I LIVEEEEEEEEEEE~~~~~~~~~~~~~~! I survived the 1709 UPDATE Upgrade….My Lenovo laptop did it! EVERYTHING IS WORKING AND NORMAL! I survived the weirdness so far! 😀 I AM HERE FOLKS AND I AM OKAY!

      • #174366 Reply
        Noel Carboni
        AskWoody_MVP

        All traditional approaches, such as setting connections to metered, or adding registry entries, rely on Microsoft respecting your choices by heeding settings. We can see clearly that that’s no longer going to be viable. The Windows Update service will no longer stay disabled.

        This has become a ridiculous situation, in which we have to fight to retain control over when and whether software is installed on our very own computers.

        Regarding what still works… Probably the most effective thing one can still do is to control communications.

        One way is to use a firewall package configured to disallow Windows Update service connections to microsoft.com, windowsupdate.com, live.com except for when you want to facilitate an update. If Windows cannot communicate, Microsoft cannot force an update.

        That being said, be aware that Microsoft adds hidden rules to their own Windows Defender Firewall service to facilitate communications they want.

        -Noel

        6 users thanked author for this post.
      • #174371 Reply
        santino
        AskWoody Lounger

        I use this script that should always work.

        If by any chance it doesn’t, PM me and I’ll fix it.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #174421 Reply
        Just Lurking
        AskWoody Plus

        @ Noel Carboni

        Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by WaaS.

        Well, the spell checker says it’s a misspelling.

        Google says it’s: Wide Area Augmentation System–but, that doesn’t make much sense.

        These links did not help either:

        https://www.abbreviations.com/WAAS

        https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/WAAS

        https://www.acronymfinder.com/WAAS.html

        After thinking about it for awhile, and being as this is a thread on Win10, it finally dawned on me, but I’m guessing, it may be short for *Windows as a Service*–and that makes some sense–smile.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #174721 Reply
        KootchieKoo
        AskWoody Lounger

        >> DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO DISABLE WINDOWS UPDATE COMPLETELY

        I have just found 2 utilities that stop the entire Windows Update mechanism from running – one is an MDL project that can be found on Majorgeeks.com:

        WUMT Wrapper Script 2.2.5

        http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/wumt_wrapper_script.html

        The other is from a company that offers several nifty utilities:

        Win Update Stop v1.2

        http://www.novirusthanks.org/products/win-update-stop

         

        3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #175185 Reply
        Just Lurking
        AskWoody Plus

        @ Kirsty

        Oh @nightowl, you didn’t need to leave AskWoody to look up WaaS – you would have received excellent results right here.

        You are absolutely right–*Windows As A Service* is clearly addresses here on AskWoody–if that’s what you are searching for.

        I was searching for *WaaS*–and, yes, it can be found here on AskWoody, but until this thread, this Abbreviation or Acronym is mostly buried in posts simply as a stand alone *WaaS* without defining its meaning, such as *WaaS (Windows as a Service)*, or *Windows as a Service (WaaS)*.

        However, admittedly, prior to my post above, I did not search specifically for *WaaS* here on AskWoody. I went to Google and found websites dedicated to abbreviations and acronyms, and all of these came up short–*WaaS* apparently is not generally known for *Windows as a Service*, nor is it well publicized as such. (It’s interesting that Google is not finding that acronym in various forums and publications and indexing it, and connecting the dots so postings with that acronym brings up links to those sources–here on AskWoody, or elsewhere.)

        Now that I know what I’m looking for, I can find it–smile.

        • #175190 Reply
          PKCano
          Da Boss

          @NightOwl

          Maybe someone told Google to “forget WaaS” (as related to “Windows as a Service).

          Seems the right/sane thing to do, all things considered.

      • #178193 Reply
        MrBrian
        AskWoody_MVP

        I am currently testing a method that turns off Windows 10 automatic updates but allows manual updates. Is anybody interested in this method? If literally nobody is interested, I may decide not to post further about it. The basic idea is to block execution of .exe files that are involved in Windows 10 automatic updates.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #181389 Reply
          KootchieKoo
          AskWoody Lounger

          I am interested, what is your method? Are you home-brewing this yourself? If so, that’s already been done by the knowledgeable folks at MDL, I pointed out their script 3 posts up.

          I did some reading to find an answer the question contained in the title of this thread (“So how DO you block the upgrade to Win10 1709”) and provided the 2 solutions above. I got only 2 thanks for my reply, frankly I’m surprised that no one else here tested the MDL script or the other solution (at least in a VM) and reported back if they worked or not… thought I had come up with something good.

          • #181392 Reply
            MrBrian
            AskWoody_MVP

            Here is the idea. I’ve tested blocking of usoclient.exe quite a bit already, but I have not tested blocking of updateassistant.exe yet. The basic idea is to block all ways that Windows 10 can automatically update, without blocking manual updating. I believe that the method that I’m using to block execution is less likely to cause problems, and perhaps also less likely to be countered by Microsoft.

        • #181697 Reply
          Cascadian
          AskWoody Lounger

          I suppose that, for myself, I had withheld comment because while very curious about your progress I am not invested in the outcome. I am interested without having a vested interest. Colloquially, I have no dog in the fight nor horse in the race. So I wanted to avoid clouding discussion of an OS I do not use.

          But I appreciate the approach you describe. It appears to start from the ideal that you control the activity within the box you own. This would seem to be less damaging to the metaphorical machinery than tossing in wooden shoes or monkey-wrenches, then picking up the pieces. Rather, you simply prevent the machinery from initiating action at all. Yeah, that word simply is an understatement. It doesn’t give proper credit to the knowledge required to find which lever should be tied down.

          Your tests, I presume, seek to prove that all other activity and tasks are unrestricted in performance. Or second best, that any restrictions are identified and re-supported in another method. Beyond that would be considered a failure to achieve goal.

          The untestable future element would be new changes made by Microsoft to change the rules in their own sandbox. Which would become important when applying this to successive releases; e.g. 1803, in its own turn.

          Your own curiosity will drive your investigation. I would like to encourage you continuing to post results. And I will read any findings you share, with thanks.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
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