Some anti-virus suggestions for Win 7?

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Hello,

I have 2 Win 7 computers that are still running well – each running a multi-computer subscription to Norton Security that is set to expire next week. I only connect to the internet occasionally – I run Linux Mint on my Win 7 laptop, and basically use my Win 7 desktop as a “filing cabinet” – only actually connecting to update Norton.

So – my question is – should I go ahead and pay for the next year’s subscription to Norton since it is already installed, or is there a better (possibly free) alternative?

As I said, I rarely run Win 7 on the laptop – but there are times when I do need it and boot back into it, so I think I do need some type of security software at least on that one. I also have 0Patch on that laptop – but no extended Win 7 updates.

I also have a new Win 10 Pro laptop that has a paid subscription to McAfee Live Safe. That could be put onto the Win 7 machines, but I think it would involve some removal of Norton to allow McAfee to run.

Suggestions on what might be a good alternative for those Win 7 machines are appreciated.

Thanks!

LH

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Check out this Topic by @microfix on the subject of Win7 antivirus solutions

https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/windows-7-av-solutions-beyond-eos/

MacOS, iOS, iPadOS, and SOS at times.

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LHiggins

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If it were mine, I would uninstall the Norton. Then go to their website and download/run the Norton Removal Tool (NRT) to be sure you remove ALL of it. My experience with Norton, it probably wouldn’t hurt to run NRT several times.

Then I would choose a top-rated FREE anti-virus to run on the Win7 (Bitdefender, Kasperski, etc). That would be sufficient for the limited use. Keep your browsers up-to-date (extremely important) and use ad/script blockers.

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Microfix, GoneToPlaid, jburk07, Myst, OscarCP, LHiggins

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I look after about 120 win7 systems. Have for many years. My clients use only the AV that I install. After almost 5 years, not one of them has seen a single infection of any kine. My clients are not commercial installations. The ONLY AV I will install is Bit Defender Antivirus +. Note well that I do not allow any “security” software. AV is all you need the rest of the stuff in the Security packages are attempts to do better than native windows functions and they do not do a good job of it, in spite of all their claims. The AV-only product is also cheaper.

I discovered that when I have to diagnose a problem the non-AV stuff actively works against me. Consequently, the only way I will begin diagnosis on a PC that has a security package is by first removing it.

There is a free version available, but it comes with all the other stuff you do not want or need and lots of commercials. The AV in all version of BD are the same.

Your source for valid believable test data is the non profit https://www.av-comparatives.org/comparison/

I should also tell you that for many years preceeding BD, I used Norton AV exclusively. Based on my experience, BD is a clear winner by far.

CT

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Elly, jburk07, Myst, LHiggins

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It is essential to download and run the NRT after uninstalling Norton AV. Failure to remove the leftover components of Norton will cause problems for many other AV programs.

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Microfix, OscarCP

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[Geo]

W7x64 Home Premium.  Over the years MS improved their anti virus.  I use my Microsoft Security Essentials. MS still updates it.  Between that and my firefox it catches everything.  I also use 0patch Pro  about $25 a year not  the free 0patch.  Late report from 0patch they want to synchronize with ESU but mentioned they are not compatible so you can’t use both.  I also use an ad blocker and ADW cleaner by Malwarebytes.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 4 months ago by Geo.
• This reply was modified 3 years, 4 months ago by Geo.

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jburk07, LHiggins

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Another bit of advice:
1. Do not ever install more than one AV product.
2. 99% of the other products that claim to make your PC safer do not. Many are in themselves malware.
3. 99% of the products that claim to “clean up” your PC can easily make your PC a mess if you are not quite expert.

CT

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Microfix, Steve, GoneToPlaid, jburk07, LHiggins

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@lhiggins, you’re right that you don’t need to pay for a Norton Security subscription if your Windows 7 computers rarely go on the Internet. I use Bit Defender Antivirus Free Edition on some of my systems and it works very well. (I haven’t noticed the commercials that Canadian Tech reports.)

 

Keep Running Windows 7 Safely for Years to Come  
Make Windows 10 look and work like Windows 7

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jburk07, LHiggins

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Wow – you guys are all fast! Thanks so much for all of the great advice!! Looks like I have a little bit of research to do, but great that the free programs seem to work well and can be a good alternative for this situation. I really hate to spend the money on Norton, especially since I am rarely online with Win 7 anymore. Windows is so slow compared to Mint, and when I do boot back into it, I am always grumpy – LOL!

PKCano wrote:

If it were mine, I would uninstall the Norton. Then go to their website and download/run the Norton Removal Tool (NRT) to be sure you remove ALL of it. My experience with Norton, it probably wouldn’t hurt to run NRT several times.

Canadian Tech wrote:

Do not ever install more than one AV product.

Thanks to you both for that as well – good to know that I should/can uninstall Norton and not have any conflicts.

What do you all think of the need for something like the free version of Malwarebytes alongside whichever free AV I decide to try? Or wouldn’t that be necessary.

I do also run uBlock Origin on my FF browsers and keep them up to date as well!

Thanks for all of the quick and great advice. I can see that I have some “work” to do in the next couple of days to get ready for the end of that subscription!

 

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LHiggins wrote:

What do you all think of the need for something like the free version of Malwarebytes alongside whichever free AV I decide to try? Or wouldn’t that be necessary.

If it’s the free version of Malwarebytes, then it will not be resident in memory and will be used only “on-demand” when you deliberately launch it to run a scan. That’s fine, but it won’t be adding to your ongoing protection, as it will only remove what it finds when you specifically ask it to go looking for baddies.

But you can use an anti-malware/anti-exploit program such as HitmanPro.Alert or even Malwarebytes’ own Anti-Exploit (MBAE), which in beta form is still available as a free-standing program. You can use the free version of HMP.A for the desired purpose as it will reside in memory; the paid version adds on-demand scanning and removal of already extant malware, but the free version (read more about it here and in subsequent posts in that thread) will help to prevent such malware from getting on your PCs in the first place.

Keep Running Windows 7 Safely for Years to Come  
Make Windows 10 look and work like Windows 7

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jburk07, LHiggins

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I used malwarebytes for years. Then a Dell technician pointed out a new guy on the block (long time ago). AdWcleaner. It is just as effective, much faster, and is not an installable app. It is a scanner. In my clients’ PCs, the only security/protection product running is BD. I do not allow anything else. When I remotely login, I routinely run ADWcleaner. It often finds nothing because BD does not allow most malware.

I do not think you need to install norton to run the removal tool. I do agree that it is best to run it more than once. Also you may find Norton folders left behind even after you run the removal tool.

CT

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jburk07, LHiggins

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Thanks for that info about AdWcleaner! It looks like a great option with nothing to install. I’ll definitely look into it along with most likely Bitdefender free.

All of this is great – and a big help! Much appreciated everyone!

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It’s many years since I had Norton on my system, as I suspected it, rightly or wrongly, of being a serious hog of resources, slowing my system down.  I’m happy with Malwarebytes, a lifetime subscription, and Windows Security.

Dell E5570 Latitude, Intel Core i5 6440@2.60 GHz, 8.00 GB - Win 10 Pro

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jburk07, LHiggins

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John, I agree. I have seen Norton in hundreds of PCs. It is a serious resource hog. That is one of the things that I like about BD AV+, very little use of resources. Completely automatic. You never hear from it. It does everything under the covers during times you are not using it.

CT

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jburk07, LHiggins

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I am also running a few computers that double boot Win 7 and Linux Mint 19.2. Although I am living a rather delightful stress-free computer life with Mint, I do keep Win 7 around just in case.

Once a week I update the browsers – Firefox, Chrome, and Opera. Can’t update IE 11 because I have neither 0Patch nor MS extended patches. I also update MS Security Essentials (the only antivirus on the Win 7 side of these computers) virus definitions and do a quick scan. I don’t know how long MS will continue the definition updates for MSE, but I would guess for about 3 more years since that’s how long their extended for-pay Win 7 support will last.

The one other thing I do is set the machines so they DO NOT automatically connect to the internet upon booting into Win 7. That way I’ve got total control over internet exposure time. I connect, get the patches/updates, then disconnect.

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LHiggins, jburk07

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F-Secure is a compatible AV for W7 Ultimate 64 bit, I’ve had zero issues from day one (several years now). No conflicts and fantastic integration all the way. I use the Stand Alone version. Hope this helps.

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LHiggins, jburk07

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DrBonzo: I use “Webroot SecureAnywhere” both in the Win 7 PC and in the Mac and have been doing this for a number of years in both without problems: at least five years for the Win 7 PC (and for several years before that I was using another Webroot AV that “SecureAnyhere” later replaced), close to three years by now for the Mac. It has a firewall that is pretty good and includes a feature that removes debris picked up while browsing on the Web. It is not for free: I have not checked this right now, so, if memory serves, the license, first time or renewal, is about $50 per year and for this price the AV can be installed in up to 5 devices.

I also have the free version of  Malwarebyes installed and use it at least once a day everyday I am on either computer (after scanning with AV).

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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LHiggins, jburk07

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As antivirus products are more deeply embedded with Windows than other 3rd party programs, I suggest making a system partition backup before uninstalling or installing, just in case you need to get back to where you were and try again.

There was the recommendation above to use the Norton cleanup tool a few times. I don’t know about the Norton tool, but the equivalent Avira AV cleanup tool to be used after uninstallation, recommends that it should be run in “safe mode” for best results. It might be a good idea to run the Norton tool at least once in “safe mode”?

There is a lot of support for BitDefender (BD) above. I have no recent experience of BD, but when I tried its installer a few years ago it decided to uninstall 1 or 2 other programs it decided were “incompatible”. Now this “incompatibility” may have been true, but it would have been nice to have been given the choice myself whether to continue or abandon the BD installation. The installer does not know if the user values the installed “incompatible” program more than BD! This was a few years ago. The current BD installer may be more user friendly today? If not this is another good reason to have a backup.

Avast and AVG are commonly used free AVs and each have traditionally been seen as a viable alternative for the other. Recently Avast (the company) bought AVG (the company). I suspect that now both the Avast and AVG products will have much in common below their different Avast and AVG branded user interfaces. Both seem to get new versions at the same time. Both get the same results in AV testing. Probably no point in trying both?

Most of the free AV products are from companies based in EU countries e.g. BitDefender in Romania, Avast/AVG in the Czech Republic, Avira in Germany and Panda in Spain, which are democratic and subject to EU internal/single market rules. Some others are not. This non-technical decison point may be of importance to you? (I’m not aware of any free AVs from USA based companies, but I have not checked recently.)

I use the lightweight Panda AV on my old, slow PCs with limited RAM. This works better when online because it does checking “in the cloud”. As I’m most likely to encounter a problem online I do not regard this as a limitation. If your PCs are mostly offline and may become infected offline, Panda may not be the best for you. (I believe other AVs now do at least some of their checking online, so this is not as big a difference as it was a few years ago.)

I had used Avira (both free and paid for versions) for many years, but found over time it was making my slow PCs even more sluggish. If your PCs have plenty of processing grunt, it is still probably a good choice – it performs well in the AV-Comparatives “real-world” test.

HTH. Garbo.

PS: The AdwCleaner program mentioned above is now owned by Malwarebytes (the company), so may now have much in common with Malwarebytes Antimalware (the product).

 

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Elly, Myst, LHiggins, Cybertooth, jburk07

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Garbo continues …

Further to my comments above, out of curiosity, after making a (normal Panda AV protected) system partition backup I decided to try Avira again, several years after the last time, but on my newer (refurbished) Dell Optiplex 790 with 8GB RAM, a SSD system partition (C:)and running W8.1. Unlike my slower PCs a few years ago, in terms of performance, this PC handled Avira OK. I took the opportunity to run a full system scan and it found nothing that Panda had missed (although it took about twice as long to complete the scan as Panda takes).

However this experiment did remind me of the other thing I dislike about the “new” Avira which is the splitting of its user interface (UI) between the traditional product windows and the dumbed down “launcher”. (There are parallels here with Windows 10 where some, but not all, of the controls have been moved from the Control Panel to the Settings App. The result is a dumbed down UI with fewer options.) This was emphasized after a few hours when I noticed excessive fan noise. I opened Process Explorer to see what was running and noticed that most of the Avira processes, including the main “avguard” process were not running, although its “launcher” indication in the lower left notification and the Windows “white flag” icon both indicated it was running. It appeared as if Avira had become locked up (the excess processor activity and hence fan usage) during a program version update. In normal circumstances I would have rebooted the PC or tried to install Avira again, but as this was just an exercise, I decide to end it.

Before restoring my Panda backup, I took the opportunity to replace the broken Avira with BitDefender (BD) Free. This installation went reasonably well, although I needed to allowing a lot of BD processes outgoing access though the PC’s firewall. At one stage it indicated I needed to activate via a BD account, but I selected “not now” (or whatever the words were). If you are going to use BD for real be ready to give an e-mail address and have a password for the account.

Anyway this all completed and I was presented with a very minimalist UI, with the only user option being the exclusion of files or folders from BD’s monitoring. There was no means of setting up scheduled scans. No means of the user updating BD. (BD’s internal updating failed because I had not allowed it through the firewall in time. After a PC restart with the firewall outgoing rule set up, the BD update seemed to work.) This is very much an install and forget program, leaving BD to do its thing! (“Security as a service”?)

Again while BD was installed I took the opportunity to run a full system scan. This was very quick – 242393 files across system partition C: on a SSD, plus data partition D: on a HDD in 8 minutes 49 seconds! I tried a C: partition scan on its own using the “drag” to scan method and curiously this scanned 410638 files in 6 minutes 11 seconds. Clearly the “drag” scan method is more thorough than the “full scan” method (more files scanned out of fewer files which could be scanned). Like Avira, BD found nothing that Panda had missed in either “full” or “drag” scans.

After restoring my Panda system partition backup (going back to the PC state before this exercise), I ran Panda’s equivalents for the BD “full” and “drag” scans. The Panda “full” scan of both C: and D: checked 371312 files (so more than BD) in about 26 minutes (it does not show the time in the UI, this was what I noticed from a clock). The Panda “drag” scan (a form of “Custom Scan” in its UI) of C: checked 246260 files in about 5 minutes 30 seconds. The Panda C: only scan actually checked more files than the BD “full” scan of both C: and D: . Curious!

Of course file scanning is not everything, but these unexpected differences are interesting (to me at least). I intend to continue with Panda 🙂

HTH. Garbo.

 

 

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Elly, Cybertooth

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Garbo writes …

Further to my comments above about my suspicion that the Avira AV failed during a “self update”, I have since had a vague memory of something similar a few years ago, but I’m not 100% sure that it was with the Avira AV.

The problem then was that the program (which may have been Avira AV) created a temporary folder and ran the self-updater from there, but the path for this temporary folder included a “magic number”. I had no Windows Firewall rule to allow outgoing access from the updater in this “magic number”-named folder, so the update failed. I set up a rule (using Windows Firewall Notifier (WFN)), but this took too long and the update attempt had finished. The next time the updater ran, the “magic number” in the path was different, so again the update failed and so on.

I have found a Windows Firewall list file from a few years ago and the suspect file is “C:\programdata\avira\antivirus\temp\selfupdate\ad52b1e4.upd\update.exe” where “ad52b1e4” may have been the “magic number” when the list was exported.

Maybe something along these lines is still happening? The difference this time is that I did not receive any notification (from WFN) that outgoing access from this temporary folder was blocked and I needed to create a rule to allow it. Rather than finishing the “self update”, the thing just locked up?

Maybe to use Avira AV and allow its self updating to occur it is necessary to allow all outgoing internet accesses through the Windows Firewall (its default condition)?

Just a thought. Garbo.

 

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Thanks everyone for the great info and leads!

Another question – should I download – but not install – whichever free AV I decide to try before I uninstall Norton and run the Norton cleaner? Can that be done so that I have some protection while I am downloading and installing the new one?

Thanks again for all of the input! Much appreciated!

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Download the installer, but do not install the other AV until you have completely removed Norton.
You will need to be connected to the Internet to install the new AV, but there is very little chance you will run into any problem in the short time it takes to get the new one up and running.

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Elly, LHiggins

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Great – thanks so much! I’ll give it a try this week and post back if I run into any questions.

Have a great Sunday!

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Perhaps the biggest problem I’ve encountered helping friends keep their computers running is that once a version of Windows is no longer supported by Microsoft, vendors of software that support that version will slowly stop doing so.

In particular, some years back, when XP was no longer supported, within a couple months, my friend noted that videos on Facebook could no longer be played.  Youtube stopped playing as well.  Both had gone to a newer release of whatever video playback they use and no longer supported versions on XP.

Spin forward to 2-3 months ago, when another friend bought a copy of TurboTax and upon starting the installation, it immediately popped up with a message that Windows 7 was not supported and then immediately terminated.

In short, it costs real money for software companies to support versions of Windows that Microsoft no longer supports.  It’s akin to an automaker still making parts for 10 year old cars.  There is no economic benefit to software vendor XYZ to spend money to keep a relative ‘handful’ of customers that gets smaller every day up and running.

As time goes on, support for Windows 7 will slowly diminish…one vendor at a time.  I would suspect that unless it’s something like my XP friend encountered, currently running products in Windows 7 will never give a ‘peep’ that they are no longer being supported and/or updated.

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LHiggins

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bratkinson: “As time goes on, support for Windows 7 will slowly diminish…one vendor at a time.”

True enough, but Windows 7 is different from XP, given by you as an example, because: (a) It is still supported by MS for many, if not for all, users; (b) there is at least one paid but inexpensive alternative to MS when it comes to keeping the system patched and working securely for some years yet; (c) there are still, and will continue to be, many millions of computer users still running Windows 7 and not Windows 10. So, in my opinion, for as long as things continue as outlined, the business of providing updates for Win 7 applications, AV ones in particular, is likely to remain profitable enough to pay back considerably more than may be needed to cover the costs of developing those updates. For those developing an AV application, it will be a matter calling for some good business judgement, not a knee-jerk reaction to “cut costs because we should aim for none.” But one can only guess what the future will bring, as in this fast-changing world, particularly when it comes to computer software, hardware and the Web, the past is often no longer a reliable prologue.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Steve, Cybertooth, Canadian Tech

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i believe you are very correct about the potential longevity of Win7. Last i checked there were well over 300 million (about 30% of all computers) Win7 users still using the web. That’s a substantial market. Any company that decides to walk away from that market is idealistic and not realistic. There is lots of money to be made continuing to support win7. I have prepared all my 120 clients for a long term use. Personally, i expect i will be using Win7 for years and years to come.

CT

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Steve, Cybertooth, Myst

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Garbo continues #2263810 …

To be fair to BitDefender, I mentioned above that it appears that a user needs to set up an account to activate the Free AV. The is also true for the Panda Free AV.

It is several years since I first installed Panda and I had forgotten about this. I have seen no side-effects of this Panda account.

Note: I saw no such account requirement for the Avira free AV during its installation.

HTH. Garbo.

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Elly, LHiggins

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FWIW I use Avira Free on 2 Macs and don’t need an account (that’s one of the reasons I use it)

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Hello!

Before I go too far down this road, I have one additional question:

LHiggins wrote:

I also have a new Win 10 Pro laptop that has a paid subscription to McAfee Live Safe. That could be put onto the Win 7 machines, but I think it would involve some removal of Norton to allow McAfee to run.

My subscription to McAfee on the Win 10 laptop is up in July and I am probably going to renew it. My question – since I could also install this on both Win 7 machines, would that be a good alternative to a free program?

I’ll be paying for it anyway, so would having it on all of the computers be something to consider?

Thanks for any input on this idea.

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If you will read my post again:
Never have more than one AV in place. It will create all sorts of conflicts
After years and years of working with many different AV’s, two of the last ones I would use are McAfee and Norton. They just do not provide the level of protection that other much better ones do. On top of that, they take a toll on resources and provide lots of false postitives.

CT

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Microfix, OscarCP, LHiggins, satrow

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Thanks – and yes, I would uninstall Norton and run the Norton Removal Tool first. I wouldn’t run two together.

I just thought since I was probably going to pay for McAfee for the Win 10 laptop (it came pre-installed) and have the ability to use it on other computers with that subscription, I could uninstall Norton and use McAfee instead of a free AV.

But if McAfee would overload my Win 7 computers’ resources, I guess I may be better off with something else.

So, would something like BitDefender be a good alternative to McAfee for the Win 10 laptop as well? Or just go with Windows Security/Defender?

Thanks again!

 

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If you will take a careful look at this report, you should understand the different qualities of the alternatives https://www.av-comparatives.org/comparison/ When reading these comparisons, you have to keep in mind that a program that provides 95% protection is about 5 times more likely to allow an infection when compared to another product which provides 99%.

CT

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LHiggins

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I agree with Canadian Tech regarding McAfee and Norton. We use ESET Nod32 on all of our maintained machines for years. Low on resources and very good protection. Catch it on sale at NewEgg and a 3 or 5 machine license can be purchased for $15-30. They have it on sale often and I buy multiple licenses to use when needed. If their Internet Security Suite is on sale you can use the license for Nod32.

Never Say Never

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LHiggins

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LHiggins wrote:

But if McAfee would overload my Win 7 computers’ resources, I guess I may be better off with something else.

According to the page that @Canadian_Tech linked to, McAfee has a lower impact on PC performance than either Norton or BitDefender.

 

Keep Running Windows 7 Safely for Years to Come  
Make Windows 10 look and work like Windows 7

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LHiggins

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