SSD life (new question)

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Hi all;

I have followed the previous thread SSD life with great interest and I have read the PC-World article Paul T inked to as well.

I beg to at least question some of the obvious(?) conclusions that I had drawn and maybe others draw as well.

I have a Samsung Evo 840 SSD (250GB model) that I bought in July of 2013. Since then it is the system drive in my everyday rig. Only the data files (about 220GB) under my account are on an “old fashioned” spinning platter HD drive.

I ran gSmartControl 0.8.7 and got a disastrous result; it is here.

If SmartControl is right I have to buy a new SSD prontissimo and the conclusions (see above) are wrong.

If SmartControl is wrong and my conclusions (see above) are right what gives?

Comments, tips and education are welcome and kindly solicited. TIA

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I never rely on just one software application’s opinion, so get at least two other
programs and run them.

If you have similar results across the board then I might consider looking at another drive
to have at the ready.

Also, considering that the drive is a bit older, check to see if a firmware update is available.
Your OS too should have TRIM enabled by default, so no Windows XP.
If I got similar results from at least 3 separate software programs I might consider
wiping the drive, updating the firmware, then performing a clean install, then repeating the tests again.

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Also, considering that the drive is a bit older, check to see if a firmware update is available. . . Your OS too should have TRIM enabled by default. . .

Rebuilding my main rig? I am too old for that, sorry.

And TRIM is enabled, checked and confirmed.

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I can’t see anything in your screen shot that says you have a problem. What are you concerned about?
Try CrystalDiskInfo for a nice good/bad indicator, with full details also available. This is the zip version which is easiest to use.

cheers, Paul

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I can’t see anything in your screen shot that says you have a problem. What are you concerned about?

Thanks Paul T for your reply.
Pre-failure status for

Re-Allocated Sector Count
Wear Leveling Count
Used Reserved Block Count and
Runtime Bad Blocks

plus all other values marked with “old age” gave me a slight fright.

I will try CrystalDiskInfo as well and report back.

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Well, this is not pretty.
I ran GSmartControl and CrystalDiskInfo for my 3 years old Samsung EVO 840 250GB SSD (system disk) and for a brand new Seagate 1TB HDD. The differences make me speechless

I don’t trust any of these. The results remind of the very recent VW diesel exhaust scandal.

Here are the screen shots:

Samsung SSD GSmartControl and CrystalDI

Seagate 1TB HDD GSmartControl and CrystalDI

It looks to me like with the CrystalDI results I have an excuse to sleep somewhat better tonight; but can I?

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Well, this is not pretty.
I ran GSmartControl and CrystalDiskInfo for my 3 years old Samsung EVO 840 250GB SSD (system disk) and for a brand new Seagate 1TB HDD. The differences make me speechless

I don’t trust any of these. The results remind of the very recent VW diesel exhaust scandal.

Here are the screen shots:

Samsung SSD GSmartControl and CrystalDI

Seagate 1TB HDD GSmartControl and CrystalDI

It looks to me like with the CrystalDI results I have an excuse to sleep somewhat better tonight; but can I?

Your links are requiring login. Maybe it would better to upload them here?

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Your links are requiring login. Maybe it would better to upload them here?

Thanks Ruirib.
I’ll have to figure out why these don’t work and the one from yesterday does work; grrr.

And DONE, they should work now.

And then I have to figure out how to post screen shots here, never done before. Again, Ruirib, thank you!

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Thanks Ruirib.
I’ll have to figure out why these don’t work and the one from yesterday does work; grrr.

And DONE, they should work now.

And then I have to figure ouy how to post screen shots here, never done before. Again, Ruirib, thank you!

They seem to be working now :).

Hmm… The Seagate ones are still now working.

If you want to use the Lounge, there is quick explanation here: http://windowssecrets.com/forums/showthread//159019-Uploading-files-please-use-the-basic-uploader-if-the-advanced-fails

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Interesting I notice the zip is 4 MB and one exe is 208 MB !! I did not see a feature list. I am guessing the larger ones are an install, what else do you get w/ the install versions??

:cheers:

🍻

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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Interesting I notice the zip is 4 MB and one exe is 208 MB !! I did not see a feature list.

wavy, what am I missing here, what do you refer to? I am lost… ;-(

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wavy, what am I missing here, what do you refer to? I am lost… ;-(

The zip file which seems to be of the portable variety is 3 MB. The exe file (which I am guessing is an installable app) is 208 MB.
I was not able to find a feature comparison between the 2 programs.
I went with the zip.

:cheers:

🍻

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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In the meantime I have done a LOT of reading and tried some other HDD “monitoring” programs.

I ran across Hard Disk Sentinel (HDS) and read most of the author’s web site and I liked what I saw. Only one example when he discusses TRIM enabled (in the OS) but shown as disabled:

[INDENT]There is a big difference between the TRIM feature being enabled and being active. Enabled just means that the OS will send the TRIM command to the SSD device (via the controller driver where the SSD is connected), but that does not guarantee that the SSD will actually receive the TRIM command.

The fsutil shows if the operating system in general uses the TRIM function or not.
The result of this is completely useless – as it returns 0 (TRIM “working”) even if there is no SSD present in the system.

If the result is 0, it means that the operating system is prepared to send the TRIM command for the proper device (an SSD with TRIM function supported).

The question is: does the hard disk controller (and its driver) pass this command to the SSD(s) used in the system or block it?
The problem is that some hard disk controllers (and their drivers) may block the TRIM command, do not pass it to the SSD, even if TRIM is supported by the SSD.[/INDENT]

Just as an example; I have learned a lot more.

After testing HDS on two of our machines I ended up paying for it. The SSD in my rig that I was so concerned about gets this result:
42278-Samsung-EVO-840-250GB-HardDiskSent

All in all this looks much more like a trustworthy program and I will sleep tonight in peace.

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GSC and CDI both show the same result, a good disk. I think you are confusing Type as an indicator of health rather than a descriptor.

To test if TRIM is working see this post: http://windowssecrets.com/forums/showthread//171980-How-to-partition-new-SSD?p=1025469&viewfull=1#post1025469

cheers, Paul

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GSC and CDI both show the same result, a good disk. I think you are confusing Type as an indicator of health rather than a descriptor.

A complete column of “old age” on a two year old Samsung SSD? I don’t believe it.

To test if TRIM is working see this post: http://windowssecrets.com/forums/showthread//171980-How-to-partition-new-SSD?p=1025469&viewfull=1#post1025469

I had done that and it showed enabled.
But then I read on Hard Disk Sentinel’s FAQs:
[INDENT]The fsutil shows if the operating system in general uses the TRIM function or not.
The result of this is completely useless – as it returns 0 (TRIM “working”) even if there is no SSD present in the system.

If the result is 0, it means that the operating system is prepared to send the TRIM command for the proper device (an SSD with TRIM function supported).

The question is: does the hard disk controller (and its driver) pass this command to the SSD(s) used in the system or block it?
The problem is that some hard disk controllers (and their drivers) may block the TRIM command, do not pass it to the SSD, even if TRIM is supported by the SSD.[/INDENT]

HDS still shows TRIM as disabled in the drive; I will take up this battle with Samsung directly though.

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Did you use trimcheck? It actually tests if TRIM is working.

cheers, Paul

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Did you use trimcheck? It actually tests if TRIM is working.
cheers, Paul

Works great, just read the instructions (RTFM):

[*]Place on Drive you want to test and run from there.
[*]Run as Admin!
[*]Wait 20 seconds or Reboot
[*]Run Again as Admin for results.

HTH :cheers:

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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Looks like it’s time to dump GSmartControl.

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fsutil behavior query DisableDeleteNotify

Works just as well.

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fsutil behavior query DisableDeleteNotify . . .

CLiNT, as I quoted in post #12 fsutil only checks whether TRIM is enabled in Windows; it does not check whether the SSD is actually capable of TRIMming correctly.
While I type this trimcheck has run and I wait before the next run.

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Except it doesn’t actually test TRIM.

I have a laptop with the HDD replaced by an SSD and it has been running slower and slower, so I decided to see if the SSD was behaving correctly. FSUTIL showed TRIM was OK and performance tools showed it was fine, but a test with trimcheck showed no TRIM. I re-ran Windows Experience Index and the disk speed improved markedly. Re-running trimcheck showed TRIM now working.
Laptop now running nice and fast.

cheers, Paul

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@Paul T and
@Retired Geek

THANKS A BIG BUNCH for pointing me to trimcheck.

The first test without a reboot shows that in my Samsung SSD the TRIM command actually IS NOT WORKING!
Despite CrystalDiskInfo and Samsung Magician saying so! Gotcha!

Will reboot now, check again and report back.

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And AFTER the reboot:

42311-ScreenShot001

No comment.

Again, thanks to all and to Paul T a special extra one!

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I fixed my SSD by changing the disk controller driver to the Microsoft AHCI driver and re-running the Windows Experience Index tool. Laptop now snappy again.

cheers, Paul

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Paul,

Glad you got it fixed. You might post the steps you took to accomplish the change for the less technical. :cheers:

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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If you have the Samsung 840 EVO, you should also have “Samsung Magician” software (comes with the SSD). When you run it, it gives a fair indication of the status of the disk. One would think that if it says the status of your SSD is “good”, and it reports that the SMART status of key elements of your disk is “OK” then it your disk is fine(!) (I have found that “Hard Disk Sentinel” results and those of “Samsung Magician” correlate very well).

My Rig: AMD Ryzen 9 5900X 12-Core CPU; ASUS Cross Hair VIII Formula Mobo; Win 10 Pro (64 bit)-(UEFI-booted); 32GB RAM; 2TB Corsair Force Series MP600 2TB PCIe Gen 4.0 M.2 NVMe SSD. 1TB SAMSUNG 960 EVO M.2 NVME SSD; MSI GeForce RTX 3090 VENTUS 3X 24G OC; Microsoft 365 Home; Condusiv SSDKeeper Professional; Acronis TI 2021 Premium, VMWare Workstation 15 Player. HP 1TB USB SSD External Backup Drive). Dell G-Sync 144Hz Monitor.

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If you have the Samsung 840 EVO, you should also have “Samsung Magician” software (comes with the SSD). When you run it, it gives a fair indication of the status of the disk. One would think that if it says the status of your SSD is “good”, and it reports that the SMART status of key elements of your disk is “OK” then it your disk is fine

Not according to post #22

cheers, Paul

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Using the correct Disk Controller driver to allow TRIM to work
Some older controller drivers in Windows do not support TRIM.

Check that TRIM works
Check TRIM by running these tests.
1. Run the Windows Experience Index tool and update your score. This ensures Windows has correctly identified your SSD.
2. FSUTIL.
3. Copy Trimcheck to the disk you want to test and then run it – double click. Wait 20 seconds and run it again for the result.
If the second test fails you may need to change the disk controller for the standard Microsoft one.

Check the Disk Controller driver
Note: this has the potential to prevent your computer booting (blue screen). An image backup before commencing is always recommended.
1. Open Device Manager. Start > Run, devmgmt.msc
2. Expand IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers.
3. Right click on the disk controller and select Properties, Driver.
4. You should see a Standard AHCI Controller from Microsoft in 2006. If you see an AMD or other controller you need to change to the Microsoft one.

Change the Disk Controller driver
5. From step 4 above, click on Update Driver.
6. Click Browse my computer for driver software.
7. Click Let me pick from a list of device drivers on my computer.
8. Choose Standard AHCI Serial ATA controller.
9. Click Next and follow the prompts to complete the installation and re-boot.
10. Re-test TRIM using the steps above.

My Computer won’t boot – Help!
If this happens you need to rollback the driver.
1. Press F8 several times after re-booting to get to the Windows start-up screen.
2. Choose “Last known good configuration“.
3. If that doesn’t work, start in Safe mode from step 1.
4. Open Device Manager and show the disk driver properties, then click Rollback Driver.
5. Failing that, restore from your image backup.

As usual, this is not a guaranteed fix and YMMV.

cheers, Paul

p.s. RG, I should pass all my posts via you for a sanity check!

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. . . Check that TRIM works
… Check the Disk Controller driver
… 4. You should see a Standard AHCI Controller from Microsoft in 2006. If you see an AMD or other controller you need to change to the Microsoft one.
… Change the Disk Controller driver

Paul T,
the disk drive driver is a 2006 MS AHCI driver.

The controller driver is a RAID driver from Intel. Before I started this thread I had tried to change the BIOS way from Raid (don’t recall what the name was but it was the only other option in the BIOS); this resulted in a BSOD.

I assume that Intel’s Raid driver is the cause of my SSD not TRIMming. Oh well, I can live with the performance as it is.
42323-ScreenShot004
Again, thanks for all your effort.

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Is there a later Intel driver for W7?
How did you get two drivers, do you have two controllers?

cheers, Paul

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@Paul T: All “available” methods, for checking that trim is functioning, (including “Hard Disk Sentinel Pro”), confirm that it is, so it seems (in my case, anyway) that my statement was correct! Nevertheless, I have noted the other comments above with interest.

My Rig: AMD Ryzen 9 5900X 12-Core CPU; ASUS Cross Hair VIII Formula Mobo; Win 10 Pro (64 bit)-(UEFI-booted); 32GB RAM; 2TB Corsair Force Series MP600 2TB PCIe Gen 4.0 M.2 NVMe SSD. 1TB SAMSUNG 960 EVO M.2 NVME SSD; MSI GeForce RTX 3090 VENTUS 3X 24G OC; Microsoft 365 Home; Condusiv SSDKeeper Professional; Acronis TI 2021 Premium, VMWare Workstation 15 Player. HP 1TB USB SSD External Backup Drive). Dell G-Sync 144Hz Monitor.

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