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  • SSDs and NVMe SSDs: Is TRIM functional on your SSD?

    Posted on petesmst Comment on the AskWoody Lounge

    Home Forums AskWoody support PC hardware SSDs and NVMe SSDs: Is TRIM functional on your SSD?

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      • #347961 Reply
        petesmst
        AskWoody Plus

        I use Hard Disk Sentinel (HDS) to monitor my hard drives.  I sent a test report to HDS and queried why HDS did not report the Trim status of my M.2 NVMe SSD. I received the following reply (the English is as received!). (The text in italics is my own doing for emphasis). I was impressed that my query to the developer triggered a modification to HDS which resulted in a new version being rolled out. Under “Feedback” below, you will see that I tested a trial version of the new update before it was released to the general public, and it reflected the TRIM status of M.2 NVMe SSDs correctly. (Cudos and many thanks to the HDS development team!!)

        Feedback from HDS Technical Team. (The English is as received!):

        “To be honest, displaying the TRIM status is designed to work with SATA SSDs only,
        where there can be problem with TRIM at all.

        You may know, with fsutil we can check if the OS uses TRIM command at all,
        but it shows absolutely no info if the TRIM command would really “reach” the device
        or it may be blocked by the disk controller or its driver – which is a common situation
        for SATA SSDs.
        This is why Hard Disk Sentinel focused to verify and show TRIM status for these SSDs where
        there may be a problem – even if fsutil would show that TRIM is enabled.

        Please note that most other tools only checks fsutil and always show TRIM = working
        for SATA SSDs too, when it may be not working at all.

        However, with NVMe SSDs, things are different: due to design of the driver, TRIM
        should be always working – there is no similar situation – except if we really disable
        TRIM by fsutil.

        Generally fsutil always shows TRIM = enabled, even if there is no SSD in the system. Personally I see no reason and never saw situation when TRIM was disabled by the user (by using fsutil). And if we consider that it is enabled by the OS and the driver can’t cause problems, then we can assume TRIM is always working for the NVMe SSD.

        This is why until now Hard Disk Sentinel did not display such information for this type
        of SSDs. But I completely understand and agree that
        – this information may be assuring (as it would confirm things are working as should)
        – if we see TRIM status for simpler/cheaper SATA SSDs, we may expect for NVMe SSDs too.
        – if fsutil may be used to really disable TRIM – the message should notify about it to change setting

        So the updated Hard Disk Sentinel version should display TRIM status: both if working
        and if not working (if we really disable by fsutil at the OS level. You may try – and perform
        a complete re-detect in Hard Disk Sentinel to show the changed TRIM status).”

        My comment:

        They certainly make it clear that Trim being reported as ENABLED does NOT necessarily mean it is actually functioning!

        FEEDBACK AFTER TESTING TRIAL VERSION:

        I installed the new test version of HDS as provided to me by their technical personnel and it reported that Trim is enabled for my M.2 NVMe SSD. I had not known that “Data Set Management Commands” also refer to the status of Trim (never too old to learn!).  I sent HDS a new test Report and received the following response:

        Reply from HDS Technical Team (the English is as received!):

        “Thanks for the new report !
        Glad to hear things are working now correctly, TRIM is reported active as should 🙂

        I can confirm that the support of TRIM is displayed (and was displayed too in previous versions), see the Information page:

        Dataset Management Command . . . . . . . . . . . : Supported

        Generally with different SSDs, this is a bigger class of commands to manage how the sectors are used (and can be freed).

        As you may notice for SATA SSDs too, this is also displayed:

        > Data Set Management . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : Supported
        > TRIM Command . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : Supported

        As for SATA SSDs, TRIM command is only part of this management, but with NVMe SSDs, the Dataset Management means itself that sectors are freed when unused.

        This is why TRIM differently is not displayed, just the Dataset Management Command feature.
        I can show TRIM there too, but would be not really true, as (if we want to be 100% correct) this is not really TRIM command, but a slightly different (even if does something similar in functionality).”

        My comment:

        An updated version of HDS was subsequently released to the general public.

        So, for SSDs “Trim Enabled” in HDS also means Trim FUNCTIONING! I am now happy.

         

        My Rig: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 12-Core CPU; MSI X570-A PRO Mobo; Win 10 Pro (64 bit)-(UEFI-booted); 32GB RAM; 2TB Corsair Force Series MP600 2TB PCIe Gen 4.0 M.2 NVMe SSD. 1TB SAMSUNG 960 EVO M.2 NVME SSD; 512GB SAMSUNG 850 PRO SSD; Seagate 2TB Barracuda SATA6G HDD; Nvidia GeForce TX 2060 Super Ventus Graphics Card (SLI); Microsoft 365 Home; Condusiv SSDKeeper Professional; Acronis TI 2020 Premium, VMWare Workstation 15 Player. HP 1TB USB SSD External Backup Drive). Dell G-Sync 144Hz Monitor.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #348046 Reply
        mn–
        AskWoody Lounger

        … and even when the TRIM command reaches the SSD, does that actually implement it correctly?

        I’m fairly sure some SSDs reported that feature but didn’t do it right internally. Not sure but might’ve been some early Opal SED enabled models…

        • #348052 Reply
          petesmst
          AskWoody Plus

          Yes, could be.  HDS tends to focus on “mainstream” hardware and sometimes lags behind newer drives (as was the case with my Samsung M.2 NVMe SSD referred to in my OP).

          My Rig: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 12-Core CPU; MSI X570-A PRO Mobo; Win 10 Pro (64 bit)-(UEFI-booted); 32GB RAM; 2TB Corsair Force Series MP600 2TB PCIe Gen 4.0 M.2 NVMe SSD. 1TB SAMSUNG 960 EVO M.2 NVME SSD; 512GB SAMSUNG 850 PRO SSD; Seagate 2TB Barracuda SATA6G HDD; Nvidia GeForce TX 2060 Super Ventus Graphics Card (SLI); Microsoft 365 Home; Condusiv SSDKeeper Professional; Acronis TI 2020 Premium, VMWare Workstation 15 Player. HP 1TB USB SSD External Backup Drive). Dell G-Sync 144Hz Monitor.

      • #348076 Reply
        Paul T
        AskWoody MVP

        Hard Disk Sentinel (HDS) to monitor my hard drives

        Are you able to test if Trimcheck works on your NVMe, per step 3 of this post? This will give us options for checking such things.
        SSD-life

        cheers, Paul

        • #348120 Reply
          satrow
          AskWoody MVP

          NVMe is different to SATA, it would be no surprise that older tools/methods don’t give the expected/correct results. Heck, almost all blogs and articles still don’t differentiate between TRIM being enabled and it being Active, they’re still quoting fsutil’s output as if it were valid for the drive when it’s only valid for the OS.

          I doubt the HDS dev could get his software ‘supporting’ NVMe until he had enough variety of reports/data back from the early adopters to enable him to analyse the NVMe chain so that the ‘fixed’ HDS software could interpret the data correctly for those models.

          • #348381 Reply
            petesmst
            AskWoody Plus

            @satrow:

            @Paul  T:

            My latest version of HDS and also the Samsung Magician report trim active on my NVMe SSD, but Trimcheck and fsutil still report that it is not.

            My Rig: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 12-Core CPU; MSI X570-A PRO Mobo; Win 10 Pro (64 bit)-(UEFI-booted); 32GB RAM; 2TB Corsair Force Series MP600 2TB PCIe Gen 4.0 M.2 NVMe SSD. 1TB SAMSUNG 960 EVO M.2 NVME SSD; 512GB SAMSUNG 850 PRO SSD; Seagate 2TB Barracuda SATA6G HDD; Nvidia GeForce TX 2060 Super Ventus Graphics Card (SLI); Microsoft 365 Home; Condusiv SSDKeeper Professional; Acronis TI 2020 Premium, VMWare Workstation 15 Player. HP 1TB USB SSD External Backup Drive). Dell G-Sync 144Hz Monitor.

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