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  • System76’s Pop!_OS 20.10 Based on Ubuntu 20.10

    Home Forums AskWoody support Non-Windows operating systems Linux – all distros System76’s Pop!_OS 20.10 Based on Ubuntu 20.10

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      • #2306606
        AskWoody Plus

        Pop!_OS is designed for fast navigation, easy workspace organization, and fluid, convenient workflow. Your operating system should encourage discovery, not obstruct it.

        • This topic was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by Alex5723.
      • #2317020

        System76 is now going to be offering some AMD Ryzen APU offerings(1) and that bodes well for AMD’s APUs getting some hardware/driver love and attention and hopefully better UEFI/BIOS features that are tuned for Linux Kernel support like the Windows laptop’s get from their OEMs. I’ve an ASUS Tuf laptop that’s shipped with Windows 10 and I’m waiting for Linux Kernel 5.6/later to make it into the Mint Mainter’s offerings that are vetted for Linux Mint and Linux Mint 20.1 will be using Kernel 5.8 so my laptop’s fan/profile driver patch will be included. But System76’s AMD Ryzen based laptops will be OEM Vetted/Certified for System76’s Pop!_OS/Linux Kernel and so those owners can expect out of the box Linux Kernel Hardware/Driver compatibility with that laptop hardware.

        The more Linux OS OEMs shipping Linux OS based laptop’s with out of the box support the better the entire Linux Kernel hardware/driver ecosystem will become for folks using AMD’s Ryzen APUs even if the laptops shipped with Windows 10.

        (1) “System76 Bringing Out “Pangolin” As An AMD Renoir Linux Laptop
        Written by Michael Larabel in Hardware on 3 December 2020 at 04:24 PM EST.”

        • #2317044
          AskWoody MVP

          I’ve an ASUS Tuf laptop that’s shipped with Windows 10 and I’m waiting for Linux Kernel 5.6/later to make it into the Mint Mainter’s offerings that are vetted for Linux Mint and Linux Mint 20.1 will be using Kernel 5.8 so my laptop’s fan/profile driver patch will be included.

          Mint doesn’t do anything with the kernels. They’re 100% Ubuntu, right from the Ubuntu repos. Once Ubuntu finds a kernel version to be working to its satisfaction, that kernel is added to the Ubuntu repo, and they’re pushed to Mint, Neon (my distro), and all the Ubuntu flavors at the same time, as long as they are all based on the same Ubuntu version. Mint 20.x, Ubuntu 20.04, and the current version of Neon (it just goes by the version number of the Plasma release that is current, but it’s based on Ubuntu 20.04 now too), all use the same Ubuntu ‘focal’ repo. Mint and Neon also have additional repos for the Mint and Neon-specific stuff, and I am sure Pop! is the same way. That’s why they fork an existing distro rather than create their own from scratch.

          Any vetting of the kernel used in Mint is done by Ubuntu, and of course the mainline kernel team prior to that (the team headed by Linus Torvalds).

          Kernel work is serious stuff, and it’s doubtful that the Pop! devs are going to be forking the Ubuntu kernels to offer in their own repo, for the same reasons that the Mint devs don’t. They don’t have the resources that Canonical has, and there’s really no need. If there is a problem that is reported to Mint and it ends up being a kernel issue, it’s also an Ubuntu issue, and the Mint devs will (presumably) report it upstream to Ubuntu, and if Ubuntu finds the issue is in the mainline kernel, they will report it to mainline and probably work with them to fix it too.

          The 5.8 kernel is by now a stable release as far as the mainline kernel team is concerned, and it has been in use by Fedora since before I made the jump back to Neon.  It’s officially available as an Ubuntu kernel now, in the HWE edge stack, in preparation for the release of 20.10. If you look in “kernels” in the Mint updater, you should see it there. I’ve been using the official Ubuntu version for a while, and the Fedora version before that. No problems.

          You can move to Pop! if you want, but I can almost guarantee the kernel is going to come directly from Ubuntu, just as it would if you stayed with Neon, or moved to Ubuntu itself. I like the idea of Pop!, but it’s based on GNOME, and that’s by far my least favorite of all the desktops I’ve seen. They’ve engaged in a Mozillian level of feature removal. It’s why the Mate and Cinnamon forks were created… Mate to continue the GNOME 2 as it had been, and Cinnamon to gain the advances in GNOME 3 but with the missing stuff and the traditional interface added back in.


          Group "L" (KDE Neon Linux 5.21.5 User Edition)

          • #2320288

            Well I was wrong about Mint 20.1 using Kernel 5.8 as the point releases stay with the earlier LTS Kernel so I may just have to pull that down after installing Mint 20.0 on the ASUS laptop but maybe I’ll try the Live USB to see if the laptop has any severe issues with Kernel 5.4 with a Mint 20.0 live USB Image. And it may be 2022 before Mint gets past Kernel 5.4 in its point releases so that’s after Mint 20.3 maybe.

            Mint’s LTS Kernel focus may be hurting Mint’s chances on any of the newer AMD Ryzen Based laptops as there is too much new with the Ryzen 4000 series APUs that need the latest Linux kernel and then some for getting all the features supported. But my newest laptop is a end of Q1 2019 design that’s running a Ryzen 5 3550H(Zen+) APU with Vega 8 integrated graphics and a discrete mobile RX 560X(Polaris GPU Micro-architecture).


            All of my older Intel laptops are on Mint 20 and running Kernel 5.4.0-58 but the update manager lists Kernels up to 5.8.0-33 and there have been quite a few updates for Kernel 5.8 series as there are 4, Kernel 5.8 minor updates that are now superseded with 5.8.0-33 being the latest kernel the update manager lists.


            I’m really not wanting to be keeping any Live USB Image that’s not got at least Kernel 5.6/later available for running that laptop on a live USB to fix any grub issues if Grub-2 gets overwritten and my Mint 19.3 live USB Image has already been used to fix Grub-2 after some needed Windows 7 boot repairing was done from Linux Mint and that overwriting the Grub-2 boot-loader. So I had get the laptop booted into the Live USB Mint Image to mount the EXT4 logical partition/filesystem and run the Grub2 updater there in the terminal to get Grub-2 fixed and all that working again.

            So I’m probably going to get another distro that has gotten to at least Kernel 5.6/Later so maybe I’ll have to try a Groovy Gorilla Live USB to get a spare Linux Live Image that I can use boot the ASUS laptop if that Linux Mint Install has any issues that need fixing. And Kernel 5.6/Later will have the Fan Driver/profile fix for that ASUS laptop to keep the laptop’s dual CPU/Discrete GPU fans ramping properly under load and not overheating.

            So I can install Mint 20 on the ASUS Laptop boot into that and update the Kernel to whatever the latest 5.8 Kernel is newest at that time and then Keep that Ubuntu Groovy Gorilla Live USB Image for emergencies on the ASUS Laptop because that’s got Kernel 5.8 as the default for running the laptop properly for any emergency GRUB-2/other repairs if possible.

            I do not want to be running the laptop too much with out the proper fan control if possible and I’ll have to decide if installing Mint is safe with Kernel 5.4 until I can get the kernel updated and reboot Mint 20 using Kernel 5.8.

            Mint 20.1 is still BETA and I’m not really looking at that until the release version has be available for a few months so Mint 20 is tried and true currently and I’ll Just go from there and install that Kernel 5.4 based version and update the Kernel to 5.8(Latest) and that’s got the Fan Driver/Profile fix and I’ll have a Ubuntu 20.1 live USB Image for emergency fixes for that ASUS laptop.



            • #2320310
              AskWoody MVP

              Fedora 33’s ISO should come with 5.8, and it’s already available in general release. Fedora was my distro of refuge when KDE Connect quit working on recent Ubuntu (ever since 20.04). The bug is still there in 20.04, and it was also in 20.10 the last time I checked the beta, even though I reported it to KDE and Ubuntu and handed them the fix (update OpenSSL to 1.1.1h) some time ago. At least I know this and can use the distro of my choice now.

              OpenSUSE Tumbleweed and Manjaro’s most recent ISOs probably also have the updated kernel in their ISOs.

              Group "L" (KDE Neon Linux 5.21.5 User Edition)

            • #2320318
              AskWoody Lounger

              Well. I’m really finding it a lot less of a bother these days to go with mainline kernels instead of Ubuntu/Mint packaged, compared to some years ago…

              In short, for example sudo add-apt-repository ppa:cappelikan/ppa ; sudo apt update ; sudo mainline --install 5.10.1 if you want to go that way.

              I did mention that one of my sons decided to build something… fairly close to cutting edge… yes, AMD hardware… so, seems that 5.10 is the first kernel version that works right on it.

              We’ve tried that with Xubuntu 18.04 (mine) and 20.04 (his) as base, seems to work on both. Only limited hardware for testing here of course.

            • #2323416

              Oh I got my laptop with: “Ryzen 5 3550H(Zen+) APU with Vega 8 integrated graphics and a discrete mobile RX 560X(Polaris GPU Micro-architecture)” running Linux Mint 20 after dealing with some serious hoop jumping regarding a Western Digital Black M.2/NVM SSD that required some Grub boot editing so that WD SSD’s idiosyncrasy could be managed to allow the Mint 20 live USB to boot successfully! And I had to again get into a command line invoked text editor session to make that editing stick across boots of Mint 20 once it was installed to dual boot alongside 10/1909 Home.

              Now for more fun learning how to self key sign the Laptop’s Realtek Wifi driver(Open Source) that the mint driver manager listed as needing to be installed after the driver manager was run to check for hardware that needed drivers. So the Wifi works and I installed that with secure boot disabled the same as when I first installed Mint 20. But strangely that WiFi does not want to load if I re-enable secure boot and I’m reading up on that currently.

              I do not understand why the Mint Driver manager and that WiFi driver package has no signed key and I’m researching the fix for that. I guess that currently I have to keep secure boot disabled if I want the WiFi available when booted into Mint.

              I’ve got more fun in store as I try and get the AMD pro drivers to install AMD’s OpenCL only driver portion of that Pro graphics package so I can get Blender 3D to recognize both the Integrated Vega And Discrete Mobile Polaris GPU for Blender’s GPU based OpenCl accelerated Cycles rendering. And currently I’m limited to CPU only Cycles rendering on Blender 3D and that’s very slow done on the CPU instead of the GPU’s(Integrated and Discrete) on that laptop that can get things rendered in seconds what takes a CPU to do in many minutes.

              I’m really looking to replace both the WD M.2/NVM SSD and that laptop’s Realtek WiFi card with some Intel WiFi card and a Samsung M.2/M.2 SSD that are known to play nice with Linux without any issues.

              I have found that Mint 20.1 is sticking with the Kernel 5.4 and that LTS that’s from an earlier Ubuntu base than Ubuntu 20.10(Groovy Gorilla) that’s running the Linux Kernel 5.8. And Kernel 5.8 has a patch(Appeared in Kernel 5.6/later kernels) that my laptop needs to properly ramp the fans under load to keep the laptop cooled. So after I Installed Mint 20(not 20.1 as that’s still in BETA) I went into Mint 20’s update manager and pulled the Upstream 5.8 kernel down and installed that. So for the most part the laptop is usable for everyday online web surfing and such booted into Mint 20.

              I’m going to be looking at the other issues that I have to get fixed over time but I do have more hope that eventually the Linux Kernel will get updated enough so more will be in the Kernel and working for AMD’s Ryzen APUs. But really Blender 3D is open-source and so are the drivers that I’m using but MESA and their OpenCL and an OpenCL that Blender 3D recognizes instead of having to use the AMD Pro drivers is needed.

              And I’m really encouraged by system76 and their POP_OS work as that’s still going to benefit me as System76 is offering a Ryzen APU based laptop option now and the driver situation around Ryzen and Vega Integrated Graphics will get better, and currently there are 3 generations of Ryzen APUs that use Integrated Vega Graphics and a 4th Generation of Ryzen APUs that will still be using Vega Integrated Graphics. So that’s years of support there but MESA needs to get more of that OpenCL working along side their OpenGL and Vulkan drivers as Blender 3D and many other graphics packages are using OpenCL to accelerate things on GPUs and that’s popular in the open source graphics packages like Blender 3D, Gimp/others.

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