Tasks for the weekend – June 19, 2021 – how hot is your computer?

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YouTube Video So where I live we hit a heat record today and it reminded me that heat can impact and damage computers. One of the things you need to t
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Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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Lars220, EspressoWillie

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Being in the Seattle, WA area sure helps with the heat.  We’re having 70’s for a week except for Monday when it might hit 90.  Now that is HOT for us 🙂

 

Cheers!!
Willie McClure
“We are trying to build a gentler, kinder society, and if we all pitch in just a little bit, we are going to get there.” Alex Trebek

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There is only one thing that causes my HP Omen 7th Gen. Intel Core i7 7700HQ Windows 10 21H1 laptop with 8 Gb DDR4 ram to get too hot, and that is Microsoft itself. I don’t use the laptop but only once every other day (thee times a week) for about three hours each time; and I have rapid boot and hibernation disabled so that each time I turn it on it boots directly from the 128 Gb ssd drive. But every time I go to use it and start it up and boot to the desktop screen, within a couple minutes Microsoft is running every application and program it wants to simultaneously: that includes storage sense maintenance, store agent scan and application updates, virus definition updates followed by a virus quick scan, chromium based Edge update, Chrome browser update, a check for updates and download and install updates not requiring my approval (such as .Net framework updates and driver updates), other routine maintenance programs, and more. And they are all competing for cpu resources and memory resources simultaneously, jockying with each other and taking longer to complete as a result, driving cpu usage to 90% or above for ten to fifteen minutes straight. And I am left with not being able to do anything except watch the graphs on the resource monitor go crazy and listen to the laptop’s cooling fans race to maximum to try to deal with the heat build-up. And people wonder why I still use Windows 7 x64 sp1 on my other older laptop and my two desktops? That’s one of the reasons why. I feel like I might as well send this $1,000 HP Omen laptop to Microsoft and say “here, you treat it like its yours anyway.” So irritating.

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TaskForce141

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Forgive me, but

anonymous wrote:

HP Omen 7th Gen. Intel Core i7 7700HQ Windows 10 21H1 laptop with 8 Gb DDR4 ram … 128 Gb ssd drive.

does not comport with

anonymous wrote:

ten to fifteen minutes straight.

just for Windows 10 21H1 to load.  How much HP bloatware is also being loaded on startup?

My DIY 4th Gen Core i5 in an Intel DH87RL MB boots from a 256GB SSD in under a minute.  Your CPU and my CPU run at “up to 3.80GHz”.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We were all once "Average Users". We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems, we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

Computer Specs

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Is yours only switched on for a few hours each week though?

Couldn’t many updates being needed at start make a difference?

Windows 11 Pro version 22H2 build 22621.2361 + Microsoft 365 + Edge

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b in my opinion none of these updates need to be run more than once a month on a laptop that is only used at most nine hours a week. Microsoft runs a One Drive update several times a month and I have One Drive disabled: that update alone drives cpu usage to 80% for a minute or two.

 

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anonymous wrote:

b in my opinion none of these updates need to be run more than once a month on a laptop that is only used at most nine hours a week.

Most of those updates are run via Task Scheduler “at logon of any user”.  Edit such task(s) triggers to run on a monthly basis.

As I said,

bbearren wrote:

anonymous wrote: HP Omen 7th Gen. Intel Core i7 7700HQ Windows 10 21H1 laptop with 8 Gb DDR4 ram … 128 Gb ssd drive. does not comport with ten to fifteen minutes straight. just for Windows 10 21H1 to load.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We were all once "Average Users". We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems, we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

Computer Specs

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TaskForce141

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bbearren I didn’t say that they run during boot-up; they all run simultaneously after the laptop has fully booted and I have the desktop screen and the resource monitor showing on the screen. If there is a monthly cumulative update or cumulative update preview to download and install, all those things will run simultaneously at the same time as the cumulative updates are downloading and installing; and that will tie up the laptop even longer, during which the resource monitor will occasionally become unresponsive momentarily. Yes, it’s a 7th generation core i7 running at 2.80 gHz clock speed; but there are just way too many applications and tasks scheduled to run right after boot-up has completed.

 

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TaskForce141

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Run autoruns and disable them.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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TaskForce141

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anonymous wrote:

bbearren I didn’t say that they run during boot-up; they all run simultaneously after the laptop has fully booted and I have the desktop screen and the resource monitor showing on the screen.

As I said, Most of those updates are run via Task Scheduler “at logon of any user”. Edit such task(s) triggers to run on a monthly basis.  Edit those Task Triggers to suit you.  They can be staggered over a monthly basis so that only one or two will try to update at any given time.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We were all once "Average Users". We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems, we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

Computer Specs

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My computer just failed. It would start to boot and then reboot. I grabbed my spare power supply and connected it but the problem persisted. I reinstalled the memory and disconnected the SSD and hard drives, same problem. I removed the 2032 battery on the motherboard and the computer beeped as it should. Before I put it back together I took it outside and blew it out. What a mess, lots of dust, I guess it’s been a while. A new battery, make the necessary CMOS settings, the the computer is back to normal and with much better air flow. I need to remember to do this now and then.

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I have a Toshiba laptop whose hard drive died last year. I replaced it with a Samsung 1tb ssd. Now when I use the computer, the ssd heats up quickly and eventually the laptop shuts down. I have a registered version of hdsentinel and can see the temp go up on the drive as I use it. The inside of the laptop is clean and when the fan comes on it blows plenty of hot air out of the vent. Any ideas about why it’s heating up so much?

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It may look clean at first glance, but you have to really take it apart to see where dust gathers. Following their service guide, take it apart and clean the fan.  Hit it with canned air, clean fan blades with Q-tip/isopropyl alcohol, being watchful not to leave Q-tip threads behind.

Look at how air flows into and out of the machine…follow that path, especially detaching an exterior vent grille from a fan in order to clean inside those parts.

If dust-cleaning has little effect and if you know what you’re doing: take apart the CPU heatsink, clean off old thermal paste, add new thermal paste, re-attach heatsink.

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CoreTemp and HWMonitor are good tools, too.

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I run specPortable.

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HWiNFO or AIDA64 are far and away the the best monitoring applications.

With custom watercooling, my overclocked 9900K (5000MHz, 1.21VCore) typically idles at ambient +10°C.

Running hard-core stress applications such as LinX or Prime95 small FFT, or OCCT, I typically see upper 70°C to mid 80°C CPU temperatures with ambients in the low to mid 20°C.

Keeping the radiator next to the air conditioner vent in the summer really helps.

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Mele20

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Just wanted to show info available with HWiNFO:

 

 

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It is 32.7°C/91°F outside. It is 30.6°C/87°F inside the house.

Laptop’s temp with several programs running:

• CPU – 60°C/ 140°F
• Hard drive – 38°C/100°F
• GPU – 55°C/131°F

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60C is getting close to the upper limit (70) and the fan should be running hard.
Either you have some CPU/GPU intensive processes running or you have a machine full of dust, or both.

What processes are running and how much CPU % are they using – view in Task Manager?

cheers, Paul

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Those temps are not unusual for laptops. Some will let the temp get up to ~50 C before they turn the fan(s) on (for quiet operation). My Dell XPS 13 right now (that I am writing this on) is at 45 C and the fans are at a dead stop. It can easily get to 60 with some programs running and using the CPU a bit, and the fans would be on, but not at full speed.

On AC power, I would rather laptops turn the fan(s) on earlier to keep things cooler, but on battery, the fan(s) will be an added drain on the battery, so letting the CPU run warmer to use passive cooling would be my preference, up to a point. I would not want the interior of the case to get so hot that it is roasting the battery and SSD excessively. It’s always a trade-off somewhere.

On an Intel setup, the max CPU temp is on the order of 100-105 C, so 60 C is a long way from that. AMDs used to require much cooler temps back in the day, in the 60s (from the original Athlons to about the Phenom II), but I don’t know what the newer ones require.

Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/16GB & GTX1660ti, KDE Neon
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, KDE Neon (and Win 11 for maintenance)

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@ Paul – It is a laptop with IVY intel i7. Fan were quietly running.I clean the fans every 6 months. But they are very clean any way. This laptop sits on a desk that is clean every 2-3 weeks. I was running streaming movie over HDMI to TV and running a few windows on laptop screen. Not sure what the CPU% was. I am planning to take the battery out since the temperatures are rising now and put batteries in storage in the basement which is cooler. I will run battery to almost empty than charge to 100% and than drop to 85% for storage.

 

@Ascaris- That makes me less worried. Paul got me worried that running to hot.

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Excess temperature is the enemy of electronics. Anything above 70C is likely to shorten the life of components.

As the fans are running at 60 I would not expect to see much above that temperature. Monitor the temperatures over a couple of weeks to see what to expect.

cheers, Paul

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88°F outside temp.

CPU-181°F

MB-107°F

Are those to high?

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When you say “outside temp,” do you mean the ambient room temp or the temperature literally outside the house?

Computer temperatures (even in the US) are usually reported in C. I have no mental conception of what it means if someone says “its x degrees C outside,” as my mental temperature map is in Fahrenheit, but Fahrenheit PC temps I have to go the other way and convert to C to be able to grasp it. If you tell me a CPU is running at 29C, I know that’s really cool (and only achievable at idle with better than usual cooling, under normal circumstances), while 90C is really toasty. 181 F… that’s 83C, and that’s pretty hot. If that is the peak you get under heavy load, it’s okay (on an Intel CPU at least), but if that’s the temp under mild to moderate load or at idle, that’s too high.

107C calculates to 43C, which is a bit warm for the inside of the case. This should generally be under 40C (just a rule of thumb), and the closer to ambient the better. If 88F is the ambient temp, it would explain why it is a few degrees C above the 40 threshold. It’s not bad in itself to have the motherboard that warm, but it would also mean the air being drawn into the CPU cooler is that warm, which means it is not cooling as well as it would otherwise. That would apply for any other thing inside the PC that is drawing its cooling air from the inside of the case, like a GPU (if it has a discrete one) and the power supply (depending on the case design).

Is that the temp under load or at idle?

 

Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/16GB & GTX1660ti, KDE Neon
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, KDE Neon (and Win 11 for maintenance)

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When you say “outside temp,” do you mean the ambient room temp or the temperature literally outside the house?

Outside the house. The room temp is about 84.

It is a laptop temp.

Temp are under load- have 30 tabs open in browsers, 2 Virtual Machines running  (One is Windows Xp and other is Windows 98)

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181F = 83C = too hot
107F = 42C = OK

Check your CPU cooler for dust build up. Is the CPU fan running?

cheers, Paul

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This is my main machine, an old Lenovo S20 ThinkStation. Among other things, it has two Matrox C420 GPUs, which are passively cooled.

It’s been about 33°C (ca. 90°F) here in Berlin (Deutschland= Germany) the past few days. This, of course, doesn’t break any records, but the first day my system fan was a-churnin’, so I decided to bring in some reinforcement.

Here’s how it’s running right now:

Sorry, but the Fahrenheit folks will have to do the math yourselves.

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TaskForce141

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A couple of quicky C/F conversion points that are easy to remember:
35C = 95F, 40C = 104F.  Note the ‘5’s and the 40/04 digits. (Rounded: 1C = 2F)

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I put the wide caps from Costco milk containers under my laptop, to give more room for the underside vents to draw in air.   One on each corner, make sure not to block any of the vents.  I do this also for the cable box, modem, Xbox…even if there’s no vent, giving it more surface to conduct away heat (use double-sided tape if the device won’t move).

My personal conspiracy theory: to encourage sales, laptop makers deliberately design machines with bad ventilation/cooling so that heat slowly kills your machine over a 4-5 year period.    Look at a newer HP ultrabook: only vents are on the bottom, with no rubber feet to elevate the bottom to get more air inside.

I fixed an old overheating Compaq Presario C714NR by outguessing the manual: a GIANT hairball of dust hidden between the exterior vent grille and attached fan.  You had to force-detach the grille from the fan to see it.  It wasn’t documented in the service guide at all.  I kept looking for the source of the problem after following all of the tear-down cleaning procedures, didn’t stop the fan spinning up like a banshee.

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CraigS26

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One of the primary sources of heat build-up tends to be dust, and this is especially true if you’re in an arid or semi-arid location. If dust accumulates in filters or fan bearings, the fan will not move as much air, and heat will build up.

For my desktop computer, it’s on the floor where it gets quite a bit of dust, and I have to make sure I clean out all the airways several times per year.  But even a laptop fan can have the same kinds of issues.  On this particular machine that I’ve had for a decade, there have been times where I’ve been sloppy about allowing dust to build up (and corresponding heat issues) that one time, the CPU burned out, and I had to have replaced, and at least once, I’ve had to replace the power supply.

For cleaning, opening up the case and using a vacuum cleaner is probably best, but a can of compressed air works well, also.  There have been times where I’ve worked on machines and where I don’t have either of those, and using a bicycle pump is sufficient for moving enough air to get the dust bunnies out.

With laptops, there’s more than just the getting air into the fan ducts.  It’s important to go for every opening in the case.  That includes all the bays (battery and drives), sockets for connectors (e.g., USB, Ethernet, etc) and things like SD cards, and even the keyboard.  Surprisingly enough, there is airflow through keyboards, and if you have a laptop with the keyboard covered (e.g., lid down if you’re working from an external monitor and mouse), it will run hotter.

Something that’s also important is to know what the normal temperature ranges for a computer, both when it’s idle, and when it’s busy.  That way, if you see higher temperatures, you know that you probably need check cleaning or the state of your fan.

Vandermere posted a screenshot of output from what looks like Piriform Speccy, and that works.  Other tools that can be used as temperature monitors include SpeedFan and MacsFanControl, both of which can be run as processes minimized to the Windows System Tray.  For this kind of thing, I think all the tools use Celsius and conversions to Fahrenheit aren’t necessary.

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I saw TaskForce 141’s use of — “wide caps from Costco milk containers under my laptop” —  to raise it UP for better underneath venting; I put Two 3/4 in. board pieces under my HP desktop and haven’t gone over 92 today vs some 95-97’s yesterday – Only 80 outside now (5 pm) BUT I think it helps, particularly when I never thought about underneath Vent holes being there.

Cover removal saw little dust but a safely vacuumed and safely blew at the innards, and will repeat in 6 months. Thanks to HP for no screws removal! Side-Panel removal was pull-up thumb latch and Pull case side backwards to remove.

W10 Pro 22H2 / Hm-Stdnt Ofce '16 C2R / HP Envy Desk-Ethernet - SSD-HDD/ i5(8th Gen) 12GB / GP=2 + FtrU=Semi-Annual + Feature Defer = 1 + QU=0

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By and large, heat comes from poor ventilation, a mechanical hard drive or the CPU. To watch the CPU, I install Process Explorer and leave it running in the system tray. Highly recommended, free and from a trustworthy source.
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/process-explorer

Get up to speed on router security at RouterSecurity.org and Defensive Computing at DefensiveComputingChecklist.com

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