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    This topic contains 39 replies, has 21 voices, and was last updated by  bbearren 1 month ago.

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    • #1831019 Reply

      AC641
      AskWoody Plus

      In general Ask Woody subscribers are tech savvy individuals.  I suggest you might do better if you stopped insulting some/many of us by using phrases like ‘suckers, er, seekers’ to describe those who are early adopters of the 1903 update or, frankly, any updates.  It’s tiresome and fails to understand that many of us provide support for family, friends and colleagues who will update in the coming weeks and months and need to understand the changes in order to provide that support.

      • This topic was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by  AC641.
      6 users thanked author for this post.
    • #1831276 Reply

      MrChaz
      AskWoody Lounger

      Not all subscribers are tech savvy and not all like 10, some wish to learn and some don’t, some geeks need something to test and moan about, others avoid and use something different.
      It’s the world we live in. Askwoody provides a platform for both sides to yell, scream and occasionally give praise and thanks. It’s Woody’s site and he can write what he wants with opinions gratefully accepted.

      illegitimi Non Carborundum
      8 users thanked author for this post.
    • #1831323 Reply

      PKCano
      Da Boss

      Woody developed the DEFCON for the very reason of delaying updating to prevent the impact of defective patches on the techie and non-techie alike. And, let’s face it, Microsoft has released quite a few troublesome updates in the last few years since they started rolling the fixes and security measures into one big glob.

      Whereas, many of the registered users here are techie, MANY MORE are not. And there also many readers who are not registered members. By waiting to install updates and looking for guidance each month, all of us avoid the pitfalls that the early patchers fall for (the Guinea pigs). You can read the tales of woe here, even Microsoft does. Even it you find it personally “insulting,” I can tell you that most of the readers here, including the techies (I like to consider myself one) rely upon the information.

      BTW, “seekers” is a Microsoft-developed term, did not originate on AskWoody.

      10 users thanked author for this post.
    • #1831375 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      That’s why I specifically talk about 1903 support issues. I know that you folks support people who are on the bleeding edge, whether they realize they’re cannon fodder or not.

      That doesn’t alter my opinion that anyone who’s installing 1903 right now has been sold a bill of goods.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #1831385 Reply

      tonyl
      AskWoody Lounger

      Well, I’m British and I know there’s nothing better than a good insult…

      That doesn’t alter my opinion that anyone who’s installing 1903 right now has been sold a bill of goods.

      “I must tell you friendly in your ear, sell when you can, you are not for all markets.”  (William Shakespeare)

      • This reply was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by  tonyl.
      • This reply was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by  tonyl.
      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1832239 Reply

        Charlie
        AskWoody Plus

        Yes there is – a great come back.

        Win 7 Home Premium, x64, Intel i3-2120 3.3GHz, Groups B & L

    • #1831428 Reply

      geekdom
      AskWoody Plus

      I’m a beta (guinea) pig and it’s good to know who stepped into what crisis; these days any patch holds potential for crisis. If you knowingly head into a potential problem without a viable backup plan that makes you a sucker. If you have been warned that a patch causes dire problems such as corrupting data and profiles, and yet you patch, that makes you a sucker.

      This site is designed to prevent problems.

      Group G{ot backup} TestBeta
      Win7Pro·x64·SP1·i3-3220·HDD·Microsoft Security Essentials·Windows Backup·Windows System Image·Windows Rescue Disk·Windows Firewall
    • #1831712 Reply

      Rick Corbett
      AskWoody_MVP

      That doesn’t alter my opinion that anyone who’s installing 1903 right now has been sold a bill of goods.

      I’ve already installed 1903 on some devices.

      Is ‘bill of goods bad or good?’

      Sorry but some expressions just aren’t widely understood one or more continents away.

      • #1831932 Reply

        joep517
        AskWoody MVP

        “bill of goods” is bad. Think bamboozled. Think buying something based on one set of specs and getting something that does not conform to those specs.

        Of course, that is one man’s opinion. There are many who are running 1903 successfully.

        --Joe

        4 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1831945 Reply

        cyberSAR
        AskWoody Plus

        I’ve been installing it on my clients’ home machines when they come in for service. After testing on a few of our machines it has proven to be stable. I’d much rather install/upgrade it and deal with any issues than to have my client have to do so. Now, I haven’t installed it on any client business machines yet, but if I had a new machine going out I probably would seriously consider doing so.

    • #1832079 Reply

      Barry
      AskWoody Plus

      Thank you for this post. I am a Seeker not a ” Sucker “. I always have a backup plan and i am confident i can fix anything that Microsoft might break. On top of that i go back to win95 and i can count on 1 hand the number of times a Patch has had any effect on my Computer.

      I have been a reader of WS since almost the beginning and never once was i ever insulted or laughed at for any post that i made no mater how dumb it might have been. I made a post the other day stating that my Computer was Rock steady after installing 1903. Another poster replied and i quote ” I almost fell out of my chair laughing at that statement. ”  I think i know far better how my computer is running than some Microsoft hater  in Germany and i dont care what his credentials are. And to had insult to injury Woody liked his statement.

      I had such high hopes for this site after it merged with WS but things like this really turn me off. I would just like to see a little more tolerance and a few less insults for people who dont necessarily agree with Woodys approach and there are a lot of us.

      Barry (Seeker)
      Windows 10 Home V 1903

      7 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1832170 Reply

        cyberSAR
        AskWoody Plus

        I view Woody’s use of “suckers” as tongue-in-cheek and not derogatory. After the forced upgrades when 10 came out, and all of the bad patches the last few years, many of us became jaded. Heck I have completely changed the way I deal with updates over the last few years.

        I enjoy the different opinions offered here. It helps me plot the way I do things. As far as 1903 goes, I’ve never updated my main machine that soon before, but with a backup plan it gives me the ability to test much better than a VM or test machine I can’t spend all day on. If Woody or anyone thinks I’m a sucker, so be it. This sucker has not yet had any issues with 1903 on at least 15 machines now, and I’ve saved my clients a bunch of time and possibly money getting them upgraded.

        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #1833206 Reply

          anonymous

          OP of 1832801. I agree with CyberSAR. “Woody’s use of “suckers” as tongue-in-cheek and not derogatory.” This is more of a comment to Micro Soft. The 1903 is not ready yet, but for those wanting to test and prepare for the new 1903, installing it is the right thing to do.

          One poster said, “I had such high hopes for this site after it merged with WS… “. That is wrong. WS was failing and ready to disappear, but Woody and his kind nature absorbed WS into ASKWOODY.com. I and others gave our “dissenting opinions” about this but Woody wanted to help and he made it so. This is why we like Woody and his site, he cares.

          Woody is the curmudgeon that stands up for the average reader and the tech savvy. From my experience, most of the askwoody posters are tech savvy to VERY tech savvy.

          I am glad Woody and his … his MVPs are there for us.

      • #1832347 Reply

        woody
        Da Boss

        I do not intend to insult, and apologize if you took my jab as derogatory.

        It’s meant to be a stern warning to the general populace, not a reflection on your specific technical skills.

      • #1833324 Reply

        Ascaris
        AskWoody_MVP

        I made a post the other day stating that my Computer was Rock steady after installing 1903. Another poster replied and i quote ” I almost fell out of my chair laughing at that statement. ”

        I agree with you on that point, and it’s not typical of Askwoody.com by any means, which is one of the reasons this site is a refreshing change sometimes from the more rough-and-tumble sites like The Register, where I also post with regularity.  The Reg has a lot of thoughtful and knowledgeable “commentards” (not my term– it’s theirs), but they do tend toward combativeness.  That’s okay; it’s the kind of site they want to run, and no one needs to post there if they don’t want to.  There’s room on the web for all kinds of sites.

        In contrast, the required level of respect for other users here is normally quite high (more so than any other tech-related site to which I have ever posted, which does not include the old Windows Secrets), and while it may be okay to have the occasional guffaw at Microsoft or Google’s expense when they deserve it, as they so often do, it’s not IMO okay to ridicule a member’s statement that Windows 10 1903 works for them.  A person’s personal experience is what it is.

         

        Group "L" (KDE Neon User Edition 5.16.4).

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #1833582 Reply

          Bluetrix
          AskWoody MVP

          You are correct @ascaris, that is not a typical reply that would get past the moderators. In fact we actively discourage any personal attacks in several ways. That instance wasn’t considered personal. Feel free to disagree.
          The exact quote by @gborn  in post #1794499  was:

          That makes me falling from the chair on the floor laughting

          To which @barry later replied in post #1794619 :

          Guess i need to look up where you write your articles so i can get a good laugh myself.

          This would never get beyond what had already been posted, the edit/delete pen quickly arrives.

          Should a moderator catch every out of place comment? Maybe, but this one wasn’t. If you read this site you  might see something offensive but they are far and few between. If anyone thinks they have been a target, they can DM a moderator or copy and paste the offending post or post # and send CustomerSupport@AskWoody.com a note, and I GUARANTEE it will be given attention. It is encouraged, it helps keep the tone civil here.

          Anonymous posters are scrutinized far more than registered users, their posts must be approved before it’s posted. That’s why you never see any questionable posts from them. Registered users are expected to follow forum rules. Once an issue becomes apparent with a registered user they are watched more closely.

          Post in peace, Bluetrix out.

           

          Windows10 Home 1809 | Mint19 on VM

          1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #1833580 Reply

          anonymous

          ? says:

          Ascaris, please see post #1794499 “Patch Lady-I Like 1903,” for context. Mr. Born (who doesn’t need defending) was stating his current experience with WinX in a humorous manner, not wishing to harm anyone.  gborn’s website has helped me fix broken Windows (gratis) on many occasions and i am grateful for his help. if interested please see:

          https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BCnter_Born

          About this Blog

          https://insider.windows.com/en-us/MVPs/gunter-born/

           

          • #1834279 Reply

            Ascaris
            AskWoody_MVP

            Anonymous,

            I did read the original comment in context, and I thought it was a little over the top, and I was a little surprised to see Woody issue thanks.  It’s not that I thought the comment was patently offensive.  It’s just that, as Bluetrix commented, it’s not something that would normally have been allowed, and the poster was IMO right to take issue with it.

            One of the web’s great help sites has fallen, and because of the previous connection of this site to Windows Secrets, it has fallen upon Woody to keep the userbase and the messages from WS alive.  We want the new arrivals to feel at home and welcome, and in this one case, that hasn’t gone according to plan, so I made a point to extend my support.

            Whether someone has helped people or not isn’t the issue here… I know who Mr. Born is, and I am glad there are people that offer resources like his.  I’ve referred to his site before as a reference.  That bears no relevance to any particular comment here, though.  I’m referring to the tone of one singular message, not in any way reflecting upon anything or anyone else.

            Any of us who post a high enough volume of messages probably have done this kind of thing from time to time, including the mods themselves… we’re all human, and I’ve learned from moderating my own forums/listservs that it’s really easy going into it to think you’ll be above it all and will be able to dispassionately and impartially enforce the rules, only to find that if you actually participate in those discussions, it’s a far harder task than it seems.

            My goal was merely to express to Barry and the other Windows Secrets refugees that this site is not one where you can expect to be personally attacked, for anything.

            Group "L" (KDE Neon User Edition 5.16.4).

            3 users thanked author for this post.
            • #1835809 Reply

              anonymous

              Ascaris, if you look at the complete context of the situation, the person replying was laughing because there were definite problems with Windows 1903. They listed several, Susan Bradley had issues to and Woody was saying to wait. To say a operating system is ‘rock solid’ and it only be out a day or a week is jumping the gun and is humorous. A reply to that comment was made that was most definitely a jab back at the person. “Guess i need to look up where you write your articles so i can get a good laugh myself.” That jab was uncalled for.

            • #1835918 Reply

              b
              AskWoody Plus

              Ascaris, if you look at the complete context of the situation, the person replying was laughing because there were definite problems with Windows 1903.

              A few minor issues for some, but not for most of the 25,000,000 users already running 1903.

              They listed several, Susan Bradley had issues to and Woody was saying to wait.

              It was Susan’s “I really like 1903” thread which prompted Barry’s “rock solid” comment.

              To say a operating system is ‘rock solid’ and it only be out a day or a week is jumping the gun and is humorous.

              It had been used for two weeks at that point; it’s been out for three weeks now.

              “Rock solid” was followed by “Very responsive and I have not had any problems whatsoever.”

              I can’t imagine why that should cause laughter.

              Knuckle dragger Cannon fodder Chump Daft glutton Idiot Crazy/Ignorant Toxic drinker Blockhead Unwashed mass Seeker/Sucker "Ancient/Obsolete" (Group ASAP) Win10 v.1903

              1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #1832090 Reply

      Rick Corbett
      AskWoody_MVP

      “bill of goods” is bad.

      Thanks, Joe. The etymology was unclear (well, to me at least) but I found an explanation via Urban Dictionary.

      (How’s a legitimate ‘bill of goods’ described in the US?… still confused.)

      • #1832240 Reply

        Charlie
        AskWoody Plus

        That’s a polite way of saying “a pig in a poke”.   🙂

        Win 7 Home Premium, x64, Intel i3-2120 3.3GHz, Groups B & L

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #1833325 Reply

        Ascaris
        AskWoody_MVP

        (How’s a legitimate ‘bill of goods’ described in the US?… still confused.)

        Also as a bill of goods, but it’s all about context.  “You got sold a bill of goods” essentially means you paid good money for a bill of goods that describes something that wasn’t delivered in the product, so that in essence you paid all that money for a bill of goods that says the requirements are met (because the product itself doesn’t).  It means the bill of goods is the only thing that meets the standard.

        There’s no likely legitimate instance when you’d say that someone “bought a bill of goods” without the sarcastic intent, because in that case you’re actually buying the product, which comes with a bill of goods.

         

        Group "L" (KDE Neon User Edition 5.16.4).

      • #1833932 Reply

        MrJimPhelps
        AskWoody_MVP

        How’s a legitimate ‘bill of goods’ described in the US?… still confused.

        A legitimate “bill of goods” might be a “bill of lading”, or maybe a “purchase order”.

        Group "L" (Linux Mint)
        with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
    • #1832323 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      I’m running 1903, too, but on a test machine. Like Susan, I like it. (Yes, you can quote me. 🙂 ) But, given the experiences we’ve all had with Win10 version changes over the past four years, I’m not ready to recommend it to my Sainted Aunt Martha.

      Apparently Microsoft isn’t ready to recommend it, either.

      UPDATE: Here’s an excellent example of why 1903 isn’t yet ready for normal use. If you tell Windows Update to defer feature updates (version changes) for 365 days – the maximum allowable in the Advanced Options box — suddenly all of your deferral options disappear.

      • This reply was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by  woody.
      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #1832416 Reply

        b
        AskWoody Plus

        Apparently Microsoft isn’t ready to recommend it, either.

        1903 has been listed as “Microsoft recommends” at aka.ms/w10info for three weeks.

        Knuckle dragger Cannon fodder Chump Daft glutton Idiot Crazy/Ignorant Toxic drinker Blockhead Unwashed mass Seeker/Sucker "Ancient/Obsolete" (Group ASAP) Win10 v.1903

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #1832560 Reply

      Sueska
      AskWoody Plus

      Currently upgraded from 1809 to 1903 Pro (mostly test machine). I also like 1903, but agree it still has some bugs and issues.
      My PC was fully up to date for 1809 and out of curiosity I (seeked) clicked on check for updates, but was not offered 1903.
      Consequently I downloaded an iso using the media creation tool and created a bootable dvd having read Susan’s report upgrades failing using usb media. I downloaded the iso at the end of May, it installed version 19362.30 which did not include the 1903 May cumulative update. At some point the media creation tool should include the newer fixed version of Win 10 1903 allowing installation from usb media.
      As a matter of practice, I always download and create bootable media of the current feature version of Windows 10. That way in case of issues can always easily go forward or back to a previous version. For helping family members and friends, having bootable media is also very handy.
      One of the first things I tried in 1903 was to access Settings/Apps which failed to open. There was a workaround suggested in the feedback app that worked.

    • #1832801 Reply

      anonymous

      I feel that Woody goes to great lengths to warn people of the dangers of a patch or new version of OS. For those that got Windows 10 1903 behind your back, we all feel bad for you, if you are dissatisfied with the results. With that said, the others suckers -my bad I meant seekers- are getting these updates willingly by searching for updates or “seeking”. There are those that are tech savvy and want to see what is coming out, similar to beta testers and the adage “know thy enemy” applies. By beta testing the new patches or upgrades one can find out what issues are at hand. As Woody once said -in a roundabout way- it is “thanks to these people that download at 1pm on patch Tuesday” that gives us the information of new BSODs, freezes, changed or lost data.

      I can not help but wonder if the people with hurt feelings of installing the 1903 upgrade are windows secrets people because the askwoody group already knows from years past, to sit back and wait.

      We love our curmudgeon, so Woody please continue with the quips.

    • #1832916 Reply

      AC641
      AskWoody Plus

      As the OP my issue isn’t with whether you download an update or not, it’s the derogatory terms used to describe those who have a different approach/opinion.  Unfortunately it’s commonplace now to insult those with a different opinion

      I can say that in almost 30 years of using Windows I can only recall one update causing issues for me – preventing access to a NAS some years ago.  It was a pain but after some research I was able to resolve the issue.

      Moderator Edit: Per lounge rules, all politics in Rant forum only. Inferences have been deleted.

      3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #1833835 Reply

      OscarCP
      AskWoody Plus

      There are people who install patches early in their test machines, not because they are seekers, suckers or something else non-complementary, but because they are professionals doing their professional jobs helping their customers in their work and protecting their interests. We have them here, as well as the newbies, the adventurous, the timid, those who want to live dangerously and those who want to play it safe. It takes all kinds to make a world, and a website such as this one too. The main rule to follow here is the Golden one: “do unto others as you would have them do unto you”. Acting accordingly means: to help others, to clarify technical issues, to discuss relevant topics than one really knows something about; and to do all of that while keeping it clean. As far as I know, that’s the long and the short of it.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #1833925 Reply

      MrJimPhelps
      AskWoody_MVP

      “bill of goods” is bad. Think bamboozled. Think buying something based on one set of specs and getting something that does not conform to those specs.

      Of course, that is one man’s opinion. There are many who are running 1903 successfully.

      Oh! I thought you meant that “that is one man’s opinion” of what “bill of goods” meant!

      Group "L" (Linux Mint)
      with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
    • #1834465 Reply

      Rick Corbett
      AskWoody_MVP

      Oh! I thought you meant that “that is one man’s opinion” of what “bill of goods” meant!

      I had never heard the expression before so did a bit more googling. Apparently ‘sold a bill of goods’ has, since the 1920’s, *only* been used perjoratively… so now I know.

    • #1835996 Reply

      Barry
      AskWoody Plus

      You are correct @ascaris, that is not a typical reply that would get past the moderators. In fact we actively discourage any personal attacks in several ways. That instance wasn’t considered personal. Feel free to disagree.
      The exact quote by @gborn  in post #1794499  was:

      That makes me falling from the chair on the floor laughting

      To which @barry later replied in post #1794619 :

      Guess i need to look up where you write your articles so i can get a good laugh myself.

      This would never get beyond what had already been posted, the edit/delete pen quickly arrives.

      Should a moderator catch every out of place comment? Maybe, but this one wasn’t. If you read this site you  might see something offensive but they are far and few between. If anyone thinks they have been a target, they can DM a moderator or copy and paste the offending post or post # and send CustomerSupport@AskWoody.com a note, and I GUARANTEE it will be given attention. It is encouraged, it helps keep the tone civil here.

      Anonymous posters are scrutinized far more than registered users, their posts must be approved before it’s posted. That’s why you never see any questionable posts from them. Registered users are expected to follow forum rules. Once an issue becomes apparent with a registered user they are watched more closely.

      Post in peace, Bluetrix out.

       

      My original response was worse than that but after rereading it about 30 seconds after i posted it i went in and edited my comments to tone it down a bit.

      I do believe i had the right to defend myself and while i still feel his comment was uncalled for i am better than that and should have just let it go.

      Do not get me wrong i love this site. I contributed my own hard earned money to help and will continue to do so in the future.

      WS was such a large part of my life for so many years that i am thrilled to see it live in any format thanks to Woody.

      With that i think this subject has been kicked to death and time to move on.

       

      Barry (Seeker)
      Windows 10 Home V 1903

      3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #1878342 Reply

      Travasaurus
      AskWoody Plus

      Thank you for this post. I am a Seeker not a ” Sucker “. I always have a backup plan and i am confident i can fix anything that Microsoft might break. On top of that i go back to win95 and i can count on 1 hand the number of times a Patch has had any effect on my Computer.

      I have been a reader of WS since almost the beginning and never once was i ever insulted or laughed at for any post that i made no mater how dumb it might have been. I made a post the other day stating that my Computer was Rock steady after installing 1903. Another poster replied and i quote ” I almost fell out of my chair laughing at that statement. ”  I think i know far better how my computer is running than some Microsoft hater  in Germany and i dont care what his credentials are. And to had insult to injury Woody liked his statement.

      I had such high hopes for this site after it merged with WS but things like this really turn me off. I would just like to see a little more tolerance and a few less insults for people who dont necessarily agree with Woodys approach and there are a lot of us.

      I have followed this guy (Woody) since his earliest days and he’s as cheeky as he is smart.  You just have to have a little sense of humor and not wear your feelings on your sleeve.  He has a rapier-like wit combined with no genuine malice whatsoever, so don’t get all bent out of shape; if we can’t laugh at ourselves occasionally who can we laugh at?  It’s all in good fun, I assure you…

    • #1878404 Reply

      bbearren
      AskWoody MVP

      That doesn’t alter my opinion that anyone who’s installing 1903 right now has been sold a bill of goods.

      I installed it as soon as it was made available by Microsoft, but I didn’t buy it, it was free.  I have had absolutely no troubles whatsoever with the upgrade; everything is solid, nothing broke, Windows still does what I want it to do.

      Create a fresh drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!
      "The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Captain Jack Sparrow
      "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns

      "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware

      2 users thanked author for this post.
      Lugh, b
    • #1878405 Reply

      bbearren
      AskWoody MVP

      I had such high hopes for this site after it merged with WS but things like this really turn me off. I would just like to see a little more tolerance and a few less insults for people who don’t necessarily agree with Woody’s approach and there are a lot of us.

      I concur.

      Create a fresh drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!
      "The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Captain Jack Sparrow
      "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns

      "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware

      3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #1878408 Reply

      bbearren
      AskWoody MVP

      Woody developed the DEFCON for the very reason of delaying updating to prevent the impact of defective patches on the techie and non-techie alike. And, let’s face it, Microsoft has released quite a few troublesome updates in the last few years since they started rolling the fixes and security measures into one big glob.

      For individual users, the DEFCON system can’t hold a candle to a reliable, recent drive image from a sensibly partitioned system.  If need be, I can restore my OS partition in ~6 minutes.  On the other hand, I have yet to have a patch/upgrade pooch my system.  I’m an early adopter with nothing to report; my stuff still runs just fine.  I’m the canary in the coal mine who’s still singing.

      Create a fresh drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!
      "The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Captain Jack Sparrow
      "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns

      "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware

      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1878421 Reply

        PKCano
        Da Boss

        Realize you are not the average User. You are tech-savvy. A good bit of the reason you haven’t had problems is due to the fact you know what to do, how to prevent it, and how to get out of it if it happens.

        The many average Users that I have supported don’t back up their User data. They don’t know how, or even where their User data is located on their computers. They have no concept of drive imaging. Or how to restore data or an image if they did one. And yes, lightning may strike their house and pooch their computer, parts can fail, and they can do what the techie thinks is “stooopid.”
        But how many people combined were using McAfee, Avast, AVG, Avira, Sophos, etc. This is just one example of unexpected problems caused by patching. It raised a problem even for techies with backups and disk images. Even  for IT departments.

        There’s nothing wrong with never having a problem. There are most likely many Users like you. I laud you for your ability and your success.
        But for the average User….well, that’s why I (and many people here) support them. That’s what DEFCON is all about, not to discredit success or knowledge, but to help the average user cope. They can’t always hear your canary song.

        3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #1878501 Reply

      Geo
      AskWoody Plus

      That’s me  senior citizen.  Print , email , internet.  No WIFI, just a modem and desktop.  Have no knowledge of back up.   The MVP’s and Defcon keep me out of trouble.

    • #1878532 Reply

      bbearren
      AskWoody MVP

      Realize you are not the average User. You are tech-savvy. A good bit of the reason you haven’t had problems is due to the fact you know what to do, how to prevent it, and how to get out of it if it happens.

      I am aware that I am an advanced user. One of the reasons is that I learned from Fred Langa’s Langalist about a couple of useful tools, and how to use them. The most useful, and most used, was BootIt Next Generation from TeraByte Unlimited, a partitioning tool with built-in drive imaging featuring byte-for-byte validation of the image. Another reason is my own insatiable curiosity to figure out how stuff works. BootItNG allowed me to rip the guts out of Windows and put them back together in different ways, always having an up-to-date drive image to get me back up and running when I pooched my PC.
      I kept at it until I found (for me) the most efficient, stable and reliable environment for Windows, and at the same time developed a complete trust in the power of drive imaging. I’ve since upgraded to Image For Windows from TeraByte, controlled by Task Scheduler. All the while I’ve kept Windows fully updated. I developed a web site to share the knowledge and insights I had gained, and it is still up and running, self-funded with no ads whatsoever. I am currently in the process of updating my site.
      I think that the main reason I haven’t had problems is due to the fact that I keep Windows fully updated, and I don’t use any of those “security suites” that you mentioned. I stopped using third party anti-virus software when Microsoft Security Essentials was released for Windows XP. And no, I’ve never had a virus infection, either. The only thing I have running now is Windows Defender.
      It seems to me that a software update is targeted toward an installation that is fully updated, hence a fully updated installation is less likely to have difficulties. That’s one of my personal metrics to prevent problems with updates; keep fully updated.
      To the best of my recollection, at Windows Secrets there was stronger emphasis placed on separating data from the operating system via partitioning or a second drive than I see here at AskWoody, as well as using drive imaging as the most reliable backup solution. There were very many active threads on drive imaging software that was freely available, as well as explanations on how to use them. Perhaps some of my fellow Windows Secrets immigrants can back me up on that.

      Create a fresh drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!
      "The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Captain Jack Sparrow
      "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns

      "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware

      5 users thanked author for this post.

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