Technical problems

[woody]

Arrrrrgh. Somehow, the database has been set back to September 13. Since then we’ve had the following posts: Outlook 2007 and 2010 security patches sc
[See the full post at: Technical problems]

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lizzytish, Elly

[Cybertooth]

Hey, at least I see that the newer thread discussion system is back up. That’s a welcome sign.

 

Keep Running Windows 7 Safely for Years to Come  
Make Windows 10 look and work like Windows 7

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rc primak

[woody]

Sunuvagun! That just came back up in the past half hour…..

We’ll get there. Promise.

6 users thanked author for this post.

SueW, ryegrass, abbodi86, Elly, Noel Carboni, Kirsty

[rc primak]

Of course, now everything posted while the new comment system was down using the old comment system, no longer is showing up. This includes comments I made during this period on several posts. Especially about new developments in the Equifax data security breach.

Any chance those comments were somehow preserved somewhere and could be added to the new-style comment threads?

Best to make sure everything stays stable as it is. That’s Priority Number One, I’m guessing.

-- rc primak

[Kirsty]

Those comments are in the back-end, so possibly they may become visible again on the individual Blog topic pages, after the site returns to service as normal. If they don’t, we should be able to extract them to repost 🙂

[woody]

I have hope.

It’s gonna be a long weekend.

[PKCano]

Here’s what I posted about the KB4038777/KB4036586 problem with IE11

On all 8 of my Win7 installations, VMs and hardware, in IE11 I have set “Show tabs on a separate row”

On one VM, Win7 Pro x64, after installing KB4038777 Sep Monthly Rollup, IE would not start at all. Uninstalling the Rollup fixed the problem. Installing KB4038779 Security-Only Update did not cause the problem, but installing KB4036586 IE Cumulative Update DID cause the problem and uninstalling it fixed the problem.

I tried RV’s suggestion by UNCHECKING “Show tabs on a separate row,” then installing KB4036586 (IE CU). IE came up normally. I CHECKED “Show tabs on a separate row,” – IE failed to start at all.

In the registry editor, I made this change:
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\MINIE ShowTabsBelowAddressBar = 0
IE again started OK.
I then flip-flopped the Registry setting between 0 and 1 – IE works if set to 0, does not work if set to 1.

I then reinstalled KB4038777 Monthly Rollup with no problem if tabs in IE ARE NOT on a separate row.

Who knows why this did not affect the other 7 of my Win7 installations which all had tabs on a separate row! Maybe it is  (the only) Win7 Pro.

UPDATE 9/16: The Win7 VM that had a problem with IE11 tabs on a separate row is on a Retina screen with high resolution (2880 x 1800). Using information quoted by @Richard here
I tried changing the Icon font size.
Right click on the desktop or in Control Panel
Personalization\Win Color\Advanced appearance settings\Icon

It (icon font size) was initially set at 18 to make it large for the high resolution. If I reduced it to 16, I could set tabs on a different row in IE. 17 or 18 caused IE to fail to start if tabs were on a separate row.

So I think it is actually the Icon font size that is causing IE to fail after installing KB4038777 or KB4036586.

Edit: to add info about Win7 Pro and Icon font size

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JDeC, walker, HiFlyer, DrBonzo, grayslady

[DrBonzo]

Forgive me if I’m being dense, but I’m a bit confused.

It seems like you’re saying that the patches will not cause a problem if you already have IE 11 set up so that tabs and the search box are on the same line.

Then, when talking about icon font size it seems that the WIN 7 machine that had a problem had tabs in a separate row and a font size of 18. Then you say if you reduced the font size to 16 you could get the tabs on a separate row. But weren’t the tabs already on a separate row when the size was 18? You say a size of 17 or 18 caused IE11 to fail, but it seems that a size of 16 also caused a failure because the tabs were on a separate row.

My tabs and search box are all on the same row and my icon size is 32. I haven’t tried installing any of the September patches yet.

I am absolutely not arguing with you, just trying to understand. 🙂

Thank you so much for your work in yet again figuring out another MS Snafu.

1 user thanked author for this post.

HiFlyer

[PKCano]

Initially, when I installed KB4038777, it was with whatever the defaults had been for a long time (Icon font size. not icon size, was 18, but I did not know that b/c there was no reason for me to look). IE11 failed to start at all. I did the uninstall\reinstall thing after setting tabs to the same row as the address bar to prove KB4038777 was responsible.

But then I read @Richard‘s post. With KB4038777 installed and the tabs on the same row, I could start IE – so I went looking for the icon font size to see what it would do. I found if I lowered it to 16, IE would start with tabs on a separate row. But if I raised the font size to 17 or 18, IE failed to start.

So it seems that the font may be too big for the tabs (???) if they are on a separate row but not if they are on the same row as the address bar, and that was the real cause. Not whether tabs were on the same of separate rows, but the size of the icon font.

Is that a little clearer?

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walker, HiFlyer, DrBonzo

[DrBonzo]

Got it! I didn’t read your explanation carefully enough. I also failed to distinguish between ‘icon size’ and ‘icon font size’.

FWIW (admittedly, probably not much) my icon font size is 9 and the search box and tabs are all on the same line. But I still haven’t installed any September patches; waiting for DEFCON 3.

Thanks again.

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HiFlyer

[PKCano]

It seems the reason that I only had trouble with one Win7 installation was it was the only one with sufficiently high resolution to need increased font size of 18. I think the normal default is 9, which means most people won’t have a problem no matter where their tabs are set.
I also suspect that the cut off point will be  determined by the resolution and may not be the same for all.

It’s best to wait for MS-DEFCON 3. I am one of the “tester” type people that can handle a blowup on my test machines, find what caused it, and deal with the consequences (most of the time, anyway). Most people can’t afford to be a Guinea pig.

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JDeC, Elly, walker, HiFlyer, DrBonzo

[Seff]

The site doesn’t show my login details at the top right of the screen, and when I attempted to login (which did present itself correctly for the first time this week) it said I was already logged in while still not showing my details and also still showing the “login” option on the top bar. When I submit this we’ll see whether it shows me as Seff or Anonymous.

It showed “ERROR: Are you sure you wanted to do that?

I’ll try again…

[woody]

I’m having similar problems. I sympathize!

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JDeC

[lizzytish]

Me too!!! The login details aren’t on the right of the page, merely the Login link at the top which when clicked takes to a page to login! Then after you do you’re told you’ve already logged in. So then you go back to the page you were browsing and on the top links there is now a link
for “Log Out”! Just saying to clarify for others who are wondering about it all. Also wanted to add my commiserations about all these troubles which hopefully will be sorted soon. Good luck! LT

“If you had to choose between drinking wine everyday or being skinny…….
which would you choose ?? Red or White? ” Anon

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Elly, HiFlyer, JDeC, Pim

[PKCano]

At the moment (4:00pm CDT US) there is no way to approve Anonymous posts.
So those of you posting Anon – please be patient.

[Sessh]

Man, I’m so glad I’ve decided to deliberately stay behind on updates as it continues to yield rewards that keep on giving. Mess after mess, meh. It really makes me lean back towards a Group W approach unless there’s another EternalBlue type exploit that needs a patch applied. These new patches keep coming with new problems which really makes MS look like a bunch of bumbling idiots time and time again.

As far as bbpress, maybe it wasn’t such a good choice? Isn’t there a better one or are you sure you can track down the problem? If it is causing this much downtime due to such an elusive problem, I wouldn’t consider it to be a very good option IMO. I do miss the “Recent Replies” section on the side, but surely this feature isn’t exclusive to bbpress. Anyway, hope it gets sorted soon one way or the other.

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walker

[walker]

@Sessh:  I don’t really “know” what Group “W” is, however at this point in time, guess that’s where I’ll be since I cannot even DL & Install an “MS Important” update  (KB4034664).  It is only getting worse and worse.   Began having a problem in April, and have not been able to get it resolved.

It’s great to have the website up and running again!!!  Good luck to us all, and a BIG “thank you” again to Woody, and the “other STARS”!

[HiFlyer]

walker wrote:

  @walker  “I don’t really “know” what Group “W” is…”

Google “group w ask woody”.   in lieu of search (missing right now) on AskWoody.

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walker

[lizzytish]

@walker……. There is another way besides Group W…….let me explain what happened to me.
I too had a problem in July with the Security update which BSOD’d my Win7 Pro laptop (apparently the July monthly security roll up did the same) so I wasn’t able to update as I had to uninstall it. This didn’t happen to everyone…….. only a few without any rhyme or reason.
So basically it would mean that you would be running a machine without any kind of security updates. This also would include Group A as well as Group B – because this not only affected those installing the Security patch from MS Catalogue but also those who were updating via Window’s Update as per “MS’s Recommended” Stance.

This prompted me to really think and ask questions about transitioning to MAC –
PK Cano has written some great articles explaining how she did it and in so doing has also provided those who are interested with so much information. This can all be found at “iOS for Windows wonks” in FORUMS at the top of the page. Unfortunately it’s not available at the moment because of the ‘melt down’ but as soon as the site is up and running properly you will find all of her articles. I really think one’s resolve has been challenged so much recently with all the dodgy patches that seem to abound….. I know mine has and quite frankly – enough is enough. There is more to life than having to fix stuff that shouldn’t have been broken in the first place. Let’s face it if you bought something and it didn’t work or was playing up…….. you would take it back and ask for a refund. I’m getting tired of all these shenanghans – just want stuff to work… Just my 2 bits!!! LT

“If you think squash is a competitive activity, try flower arranging.” Alan Bennett

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Elly, DrBonzo, walker

[walker]

@Lizzytish:  Thank you for all of the information you provided!  I agree with you 100% however am not knowledgeable enough about computer issues to know “which way to jump” (to put it mildly).  I will search for the references you mentioned from PKCano when they are available.    Something has to “change” – – – – this is worse than a 3 ring circus, and only seems to be gravitating towards a very “insecure” end.

Thank you for the help!!    It is very much appreciated!   🙂

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lizzytish

[HiFlyer]

walker wrote:

@lizzytish: Thank you for all of the information you provided! I agree with you 100% however am not knowledgeable enough about computer issues to know “which way to jump” (to put it mildly). I will search for the references you mentioned from PKCano when they are available. Something has to “change” – – – – this is worse than a 3 ring circus, and only seems to be gravitating towards a very “insecure” end. Thank you for the help!! It is very much appreciated! 🙂

Posts are available now at:

macOS for Windows wonks

iOS for Windows wonks

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walker, lizzytish

[walker]

@HiFlyer:  Thank you so much for all of this information…. Sincerely appreciate your help.  I’m at a point where I don’t now what to do.   I suppose I should leave my ‘NEVER CHECK FOR UPDATES” on, and then “check for what’s out there.   Don’t know what to do, since I’m unable to get anything updated.   Thank you once again!!   Very much appreciated.    🙂

[Bob99]

@walker: Your problem in not getting the update from August has a NEW reply just a few minutes ago from @MrBrian at the following link:https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/error-code-80070308-prevents-kb4034664-update-install/#post-133151

Follow the link to see his answer to you, to help you through your problem.

I haven’t seen many posts from @MrBrian the last few days here on any thread, and I figure it was due to his helping Woody out with getting this site upright and fairly fully functional. Same probably goes for the other MVP’s here as well…haven’t seen too many posts from them due to their helping Woody get this site back up.

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walker

[DrBonzo]

@lizzytish I agree there’s more to life than fixing stuff that shouldn’t have broken in the first place. I want a real computer, and for me a chromebook isn’t a real computer, so that means either a Mac or a Unix machine.

Over the last 15 years everyone I know who’s had a Mac absolutely loves them. “They just work.” And on those rare occasions they don’t work, Apple support makes these people feel that their Mac problems are absolutely the most important problems in the world at that moment, and don’t seem to rest until the problems are solved. Quite a contrast to MS, eh?

Over the last month I’ve converted 2 old laptops to Ubuntu, and if you don’t mind fiddling a bit, you get a very stable machine with no drama on updates, etc.

Still not sure which of the 2 directions I’ll end up taking, but it sure will be away from MS.

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HiFlyer, lizzytish

[abbodi86]

AskWoody shall prevail 🙂

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SueW, lizzytish, HiFlyer, woody, walker

[Noel Carboni]

I long since replaced the missing IE search box with one from a 3rd party add-on (Quero Toolbar). As such, when I apply the patch I just put the tabs on the same line as the address bar and keep my search box on the line with the menus…

Under this condition this month’s patches seem to be fine on my test systems.

-Noel

[Noel Carboni]

Remember that thing, control that we pine for here on Askwoody.com? Control over our updates, control over cloud communications, control over settings, control over advertising…

By the way, the kinds of problems Woody is having here on this site could be seen as the result of loss of (or lack of) control.

There is a reason humans need control over technology. A whole lot of them, actually.

-Noel

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Elly, Elly, flackcatcher, Sessh, wdburt1, walker, lizzytish, HiFlyer, woody

[anonymous]

Another perspective: Someone always has control, de facto or intended.  Whether it is thought-through in the interest of the user is another question.  Often it isn’t at all.  People who have the power, including software designers, will do what they want until they meet with a constraint.

[Seff]

I seem to have installed KB4041083 (the .net framework update) ok on my Windows 7 machine with Office 2010 installed.

I did so ahead of Defcon 3 because of the warning over “Enable Editing”, but I wish people wouldn’t be so openly or implicitly critical of those who use that function. In my case I only rarely need actually to edit a document, usually I have to “Enable Editing” in order simply to print off a hard copy. If there’s a way of getting round that then I’d be delighted to hear it!

I’m leaving this update uninstalled on my other Windows 7 machine until Defcon 3 along with the other updates on both machines (monthly quality rollup KB4038777 and the MSRT) plus on the first machine 7 Office 2010 updates of which only 6 are checked, the exception being KB4011089.

Good luck Woody and team with the ongoing system restoration. Obviously it’s up to you as to whether you inform us in due course as to the nature and cause of the problems but if there are any lessons or merely tips for us all to learn from it that would be incredibly useful, including the role any backing-up arrangements may have played in the restoration whether successfully or otherwise. Thankfully this degree of loss of service is extremely rare so there aren’t many opportunities to draw from the experience when it does happen.

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Elly, walker

[anonymous]

Basically “Enable Editing” is just disabling protected mode and opening normally. Most bad documents appear to be obviously bad when opened in protected mode. (don’t open, crash, contains instructions for enabling macros to “see” “real” content).

If you didn’t avoid the document in the first place, and open in protected mode and see “whoa this doesn’t look right” you can just close it. You aren’t likely to then say “I need to edit this” or “I need to print this”. Only people who click “Enable Editing” all the time as pure reflex are at abnormally high risk.

[Noel Carboni]

My tests went well with my Win 8.1 virtual machine, so I updated (Group A style) my Win 8.1 workstation early this morning and so far everything’s gone perfectly afterward, including quite a bit of development work and heavy use of Internet Explorer (with tabs on the same line as the Address bar). Even Office 2010 so far has been fully functional.

In short, I’m seeing NO problems with the September Windows 8.1 updates.

Regarding the IE tab issue…

Now, after a few years of stupidly combining the search and address bars into a type something interesting in here and see what happens box, we see that Microsoft is once again bringing back the search box that they never should have removed… Good morning Microsoft. Did you sleep well while the rest of us worked hard?

See my comment from 6 years ago:

https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/ie/en-US/3788521c-5478-406b-90fe-fd9fe89a00b6/who-decided-to-combine-the-search-box-and-address-bar?forum=ieitprocurrentver

Long ago I installed an open source add-on called the “Quero Toolbar” that brought back a controllable/configurable search box. Everything but the search box could be deconfigured. Voila, a separate search box! Finer than frog hair. And the searching facilities can easily be turned off in the address bar, so it could (and can) be returned to being just an address bar.

Fast forward to 2017 and – only because I can’t hide it entirely – I have no problems putting the only tab I ever see (because I don’t use tabs, I like windows) next to the address bar, where it’s out of the way.

(trying to insert a screen grab here, but alas, that’s still broken)

It sure seems like the less you do things “Microsoft’s way”, the better, eh?

-Noel

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walker, Elly

[Rick R]

Whaaa is going on?

Hope we get the database restored.

Also, about that CVE-2017-8759 thing. I ran through the updates then started reading a bit more. As described it only effects *.RTF files, but that single known example from the wild is a .DOC file. So can anyone elaborate? Does CVE-2017-8759 affect .doc, .docx, etc?

Or is it only .RTF? If so, seems like the best advice is, use something else to open those. I use wordpad (don’t know if tha poses an issue). Most of the “enable edit” docs I use are internal company docs, but I’d like to know be clear.

[Kirsty]

Look Microsoft, we’ll stop these headlines when your stuff stops getting pwned
https://m.theregister.co.uk/2017/09/12/september_2017_patch_tuesday/

By Shaun Nichols, 12 Sep 2017

 
The targeted bug is CVE-2017-8759, a vulnerability in .NET framework’s handling of input data. Dustin Childs of Trend Micro’s Zero Day Initiative notes the vulnerability is most likely to be targeted through PDF files or other malicious document attachments.

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HiFlyer, Elly, DrBonzo

[DrBonzo]

So, this vulnerability can be targeted not only through RTF files but also PDF files, both presumably as email attachments? Sounds like it would be wise to ignore all email attachments until the .NET patches are installed.

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HiFlyer

[Kirsty]

CV-2017-8759 was uncovered by FireEye – you can read their post here

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HiFlyer, Elly

[MrBrian]

This link that shows the latest posts works: https://www.askwoody.com/forums/view/topics-freshness/.

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walker

[PKCano]

Some of the “Comment on the AskWoody Lounge” links still don’t work and many comments are still missing when you use the links at the top. (as of 9:55am CDT US)

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HiFlyer, Elly, walker

[MrBrian]

A correction to my earlier comment: https://www.askwoody.com/forums/view/topics-freshness/ shows topics sorted by latest post within each topic.

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HiFlyer, walker, Elly

[radosuaf]

Noel Carboni wrote:

In short, I’m seeing NO problems with the September Windows 8.1 updates.

I can only second that :).

MSI H110 PC MATE * Intel Core i5-6402P * 2 x 8 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2133 MHz * Aorus Radeon RX 570 4GB * Samsung 840 EVO 250GB SSD * Western Digital Blue 1TB HDD * Seagate Barracuda 1TB HDD * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer PCI * Windows 10 Pro 2004 64-bit

[anonymous]

8.1 x64 here.

Search box is back in IE11! Hurray!

[anonymous]

Unfortunately I missed the August Win 7 Group A patches but have those from July. Should I bite the bullet and install the Sept patches to be safe?

[anonymous]

I just received the optional recommended update of .Net Framework 4.7 for Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2 for x64 through Windows Update.

May I ask if updating .Net Framework version is as essential as updating from IE 10 to IE 11? Or if my laptop will work just fine regardless of what .Net Framework version it has?

Thank you.

[anonymous]

“Don’t it always seem to go
that you don’t know what you’ve got till it’s gone?”
…

Hi Woody. Not sure you’ll even see this post, but…

Just wanted to take a moment to say thank you for all
you do… including creating and maintaining–and fixing
when necessary–your AskWoody site. It’s a great site with
a great community, and we’re all fortunate to have it.
So thanks again.

And don’t worry. We’ll be here when you get back (online),
and still be here when these temporary site problems are
just fading memories…

Be well.

[anonymous]

I know anonymous comments can’t be approved (yet) due to technical issues, but I’m going to ask this question anyways for clarification: Does the CVE-2017-8759 vulnerability *only* affect RTF files, or does it affect things like DOCX files as well?

If it only affects RTF files, I *should* be safe holding off on installing the patches until Defcon-3, since I never use RTF files myself anyways. And if I need to view one, I’d much rather use Google Docs or something.

[anonymous]

On three Win 1607 machines, the set of September 2017 updates all install successfully, except that the KB4038782 update (presumably the full 1GB size update) fails on each. Installing the smaller delta version KB4038782 update succeeds.

[anonymous]

As AskWoody is coming slowly to life, but not all previous comments are yet available, I repeat here, briefly, something I had posted before the troubles, on a problem with IE11 not reflected in any of those already, at this time, here:

A week or so before the trouble at Woody’s, I finally installed manually the August cumulative update to IE11. In the days that follows, when tried to turn off Windows 7  x64 (Professional) , my PC’s OS, the process froze with the message that IE11 (which I had already turned off, as usual, along with any other application I had been running before calling it a day) was still running and would not let go.

Finally, I could not force-quit it, and I had to use the power button to crash the system.

After this happened in three occasions in as many days, I uninstalled the August cumulative IE11 update. Now I am waiting to install this month’s cumulative, as it seems the only one available from MS. But if and when I do so, it would be with the serious apprehension that, being cumulative, it might well bring back whatever caused the problem in the first place, assuming it was a bug in the update.

I will greatly appreciate some practical advice on this matter.

[PKCano]

anonymous wrote:

n the days that follows, when tried to turn off Windows 7 x64 (Professional) , my PC’s OS, the process froze with the message that IE11 (which I had already turned off, as usual, along with any other application I had been running before calling it a day) was still running and would not let go.

Currently, I am unable to moderate your reply.
But I can make this suggestion: open Task Manager. IE probably won’t show up on the Programs tab. On the Process tab end the iexplore.exe process.

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HiFlyer

[Author]

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