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  • The Credge is coming! The Credge is coming!

    Home Forums AskWoody blog The Credge is coming! The Credge is coming!

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      • #2020608 Reply
        woody
        Da Boss

        (Thx, Peppy Grill, Indianapolis, via Steve Baker) In case you haven’t heard, Microsoft’s going to start rolling out its new, Chromium-based version of
        [See the full post at: The Credge is coming! The Credge is coming!]

        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2020613 Reply
        WildBill
        AskWoody Plus

        I’ll stick with Brave and Firefox and Chrome. Give it a year to stew, and let’s see how it turns out.

        A year?! Woody, I thought you’d be on Credge like fleas on a dog! 😉 As for my Win8.1 machine, I’ll see if M$ drops it down my WU poop chute on 01/15/20. Curious, but not crazy; I’ll wait at least 3 months… if I can. I’ll see what it’s like, then uninstall. Firefox is still my go-to browser for now, & will probably stay that way, whether I upgrade to Win10 whatever or convert to Linux before 2023.

        Windows 8.1, 64-bit, back in Group A... & leaning toward Windows 10 V2004. As long as it's a Lot Less Buggy!
        Wild Bill Rides Again...

      • #2020627 Reply
        jabeattyauditor
        AskWoody Lounger

        I’ve not been a fan of any of Microsoft’s browsers, but the beta version of “Credge” is working pretty well for me. I like the policy-configurable IE mode – it does a good job of automatically providing IE compatibility for those old servers and devices that demand it.

        Our organization will be early adopters of the new stuff, but that’s a decision driven primarily by the fact that the current Edge is so much in need of replacement.

        • #2020630 Reply
          cyberSAR
          AskWoody Plus

          I agree. Been testing for a couple months and it has worked well. Haven’t run into any issues. Won’t be replacing Firefox here but definitely better than the current Edge.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2020661 Reply
        Barry
        AskWoody Plus

        I also have been using the beta version for a few months with no problems. My main browser is chrome but i actually like Edge and i could see using it as a full time browser

        if needed.

        Barry (Seeker)
        Windows 10 Home V 1909

      • #2020658 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        So what about all of the hooks into Windows that are part of IE(IE11) and what about all those loose ends. There is going to have to be some serious re-plumbing to get the IE out of the 7, and 8.1, and that’s not going to happen without some pain.

        For Windows 7 what about any future Edge/Chrome updates? And I hope that because Credge is actually fully decoupled from the OS that there will be some updates after Windows 7 goes EOL, or will MS not offer anything but the initial release for 7.

        Also what about any forced integration of Credge to MS’s cloud and search ecosystem or any Ads pushed out directly from Credge that can not be blocked by any of the usual Plugin or Browser settings methods.

        • #2020663 Reply
          PKCano
          Da Boss

          From what I’ve read, IE11 is not being removed from Windows. It is still an integral part of the OS.
          The new Edge is supposed to be released on Jan 15th, the day after Win7 goes EOL. It will be an optional browser like Chrome, FireFox, etc. and will get updates as such.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2020673 Reply
        bbearren
        AskWoody MVP

        It’s a non-starter for me, for the same reason that I don’t use Google or Chrome.  I don’t use Edge now, and for me, Chromium in an Edge wrapper is not an improvement.

        I’m happy with Firefox, and will continue to use it.  My internet habits now keep me free from targeted ads and “purposed” search results, and I quite like that.

        Create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates, in case you need to start over!
        "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns
        "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware

        • #2020706 Reply
          EP
          AskWoody_MVP

          I mostly use the Firefox ESR versions (not the normal Firefox releases which will soon be released EVERY 4 WEEKS starting 2020) and occasionally use Chromium Edge, which seem to be very stable

      • #2020717 Reply
        Alex5723
        AskWoody Plus

        I use Firefox ESR and Chrome beta on Windows 10.
        I didn’t touch IE nor Edge.

        Safari and ‘Chrome’ on iPhone & iPad (I am sure Microsoft will release Credge for iOS.

      • #2020720 Reply
        Alex5723
        AskWoody Plus

        I also have been using the beta version for a few months with no problems. My main browser is chrome but i actually like Edge and i could see using it as a full time browser

        if needed.

        How many of the extensions I use with Chrome will be available to Credge ?

        Slides : version 0_10
        Magic Actions for YouTube™ : version 7_9_1_2
        YouTube : version 2018_12_18_41968
        Web Store : version 0_2
        Docs : version 0_10
        Google Drive : version 14_2
        WOT Web of Trust, Website Reputation Ratings : version 4_0_10_43
        YouTube : version 4_2_8
        uBlock Origin : version 1_23_0
        Bypass Paywalls : version 1_6_0
        Chrome Connectivity Diagnostics : version 1_2_1
        Sheets : version 1_2
        HTTPS Everywhere : version 2019_11_7
        Feedback : version 1_0
        Google Docs Offline : version 1_7
        Imagus : version 0_9_8_72
        CryptoTokenExtension : version 0_9_74
        Cloud Print : version 0_1
        Google Dictionary (by Google) : version 4_0_8
        Chrome PDF Viewer : version 1
        Google Network Speech : version 1_0
        Google Hangouts : version 1_3_14
        Save Image As PNG : version 1_0_2
        Extensions Update Notifier : version 3_5
        Chrome Web Store Payments : version 1_0_0_5
        Password Alert : version 1_27
        Checker Plus for Gmail™ : version 21_7
        uBlock Origin Extra : version 2_88
        Send from Gmail (by Google) : version 1_16
        Gmail : version 8_2
        Chrome Media Router : version 7919_1028_0_0
        Password Checkup extension : version 1_12

      • #2020990 Reply
        doriel
        AskWoody Lounger

        Edge was dead end street for me. I understand, that they do not want to implement third party software in their OS, too big security issue. Windows and open-source? NEVER! 🙂 I used IE in Windows 8.1 for a while and I have to say – it works, but its very slow and has its own specifics like stop/cancel button clears your entry in address bar, since the page is trying to open anyway, even if you click cancel.
        In company, we use IE for some web applications, that do not work with Chrome – probably because of .NET framework. IE was good as “Windows native environment”. Will Chredge be the same?
        I dont like edge simply bacause it was very faulty and pretty useless in the beginning (why should internet browser open PDF files? Just why?), so I lost interest in Edge some time ago.
        I want to test the Chredge, actually, Im looking forward to this.

        Dell Latitude E6530, Intel Core i5 @ 2.6 GHz, 4GB RAM, WX 1809 Enterprise

        HAL3000, AMD Athlon 200GE @ 3,4 GHz, 8GB RAM, Fedora 29

        • #2021138 Reply
          b
          AskWoody Plus

          I dont like edge simply bacause it was very faulty and pretty useless in the beginning (why should internet browser open PDF files? Just why?), so I lost interest in Edge some time ago.

          Opening PDF files is one of the main reasons I’ve liked and used both old and new Edge browsers, which are really good PDF viewers. Not having to maintain a separate PDF program is a big plus in my opinion. With so many useful documents being available on the web as PDFs, I would ask the opposite question; why should a browser NOT open PDFs?

          Windows 10 Pro Version 2004: Group ASAP (chump/pioneer)

          2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #2021290 Reply
            doriel
            AskWoody Lounger

            why should a browser NOT open PDFs?

            Thank you for your question, I will tell you my opinion. Browser should be able to open PDFs. But there are far more better applications that can do that and are specialized on these tasks – you can edit, fill forms, change dpi settings, save copy as.. Acrobat reader, Foxit reader, PDF XChange – it works like charm, no need to waste programmers time to make “complex application” which they abbandon one year later anyway. I mean its not bad idea, but for me it didnt work just right, it was buggy in the beginning, maybe Edge is better now, but I simply do not use it. Confirmed way to work with PDFs is via extensions and browser plugins.
            Just my opinion.

            Dell Latitude E6530, Intel Core i5 @ 2.6 GHz, 4GB RAM, WX 1809 Enterprise

            HAL3000, AMD Athlon 200GE @ 3,4 GHz, 8GB RAM, Fedora 29

            1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2021021 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        “P.S. Yes, I know you can proactively block Credge from installing on your machine, thus clobbering Edge Classic. But why would anyone want to? Really?”

        Yes really.  I don’t want any Google made programs on mt machine.

        • #2021137 Reply
          b
          AskWoody Plus

          Yes really.  I don’t want any Google made programs on mt machine.

          It’s not a Google made program:

          Microsoft Edge: Making the web better through more open source collaboration

          Windows 10 Pro Version 2004: Group ASAP (chump/pioneer)

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #2021245 Reply
            anonymous
            Guest

            b: All I know is what I read from wikipedia…

            “Chromium is a free and open-source web browser project developed by Google.”

            • #2021256 Reply
              b
              AskWoody Plus

              Exactly. The other 20 browsers based on Chromium, like Brave, Opera, Vivaldi etc. aren’t Google products either.

              Windows 10 Pro Version 2004: Group ASAP (chump/pioneer)

              1 user thanked author for this post.
              • #2021261 Reply
                anonymous
                Guest

                I’m confused by your post, Google wrote the code, they developed it.  Is a Chevy Bel-Air still not a Chevy simply because it was modified in a body shop?

                1 user thanked author for this post.
              • #2021320 Reply
                Ascaris
                AskWoody_MVP

                I’m confused by your post, Google wrote the code, they developed it. Is a Chevy Bel-Air still not a Chevy simply because it was modified in a body shop?

                That’s not really an apt comparison.  The code is not the product.  Chrome is the product.

                The Bel-air left the factory as a complete, ready to use product, in the manner dictated by Chevy, and the changes were made in the aftermarket.  At no point did the individuals modifying the Bel-Air have access to the plans that Chevy used to build it, nor did they use those plans to build their own modified version of the Bel-Air.

                Browsers like Edge, Vivaldi, etc., are not like that.  No one took the released binaries (the finished product) from Chrome, as released by Google, and modified them into something else in the aftermarket.  They took the plans (the source), modified them, and manufactured their own product that was released into the primary market by themselves.

                None of the Chromium forks were ever released by Google.  They use code developed by Google, but they’re not Chrome.

                I dislike Google in a pretty big way.  I’ve never used the actual Chrome, nor would I ever install it on any of my PCs.  I don’t have any problem with the Chromium forks, though, as long as I have the same trust in the developers of the forks as I would of any other developer.  If they say they removed the Googly spying bits, I have to take their word that they were competent enough to find and remove all of that stuff, and that they are honest when they claim that they did so.  If I don’t believe them, then I would not want to run their browser even if they developed the whole thing in-house.  If you don’t trust them, you don’t trust them.

                If that Google-serving stuff is gone, the resulting product is just a browser that either works well or does not, but either way, it doesn’t send data to Google, which is my problem with Chrome.  I don’t think it’s somehow infected and irretrievably evil just because Google developed the majority of the code.  I don’t care for most of the Chromium-based browsers (like Brave) even after they strip the spy stuff out because they keep the same awful UI that Google has inflicted upon us, but those that aim to correct the issue (Vivaldi, mainly) are a completely different thing to me.

                If something were to happen and Waterfox Classic disappeared, or if web standards evolved so much that it was no longer relevant (a real possibility), and if Firefox (as I have predicted it will) were to cut off the one remaining feature that (IMO) makes it superior to Chrome, which is the ability to use userChrome.css, allowing the custom stylesheets by Aris to correct the UI and make it look like Firefox once again rather than Chrome, I’d absolutely use Vivaldi.

                Without the custom stylesheets, Vivaldi’s UI is greatly superior to Firefox’s, as I see it.  Since Firefox no longer has addons that are more powerful than the Chrome addons Vivaldi uses, and at the hypothetical point that we’d be at if Mozilla removed userChrome.css, Firefox would no longer have a UI that can be modified to be better than what Vivaldi offers, there would be no reason for me to keep using Firefox.

                Mozilla is busy making Firefox as much like Chrome as possible, in every way possible.  They’re not using the Chromium code as their base, but they most certainly are following Google’s blueprint for what a browser should be and what it should do, and they have been for many years.  With each new release, Firefox is more like Chrome, and Mozilla has shown no sign of realizing that it’s not working to get them any more market share (if, in fact, they even care about that).  It could be that they are content to be the foil that Google keeps around to prevent Google from being a monopoly, pretending to be the alternative to the same giant that funds them and gives them their marching orders.

                By contrast, Vivaldi is seeking to take an already good rendering engine and give users a much better, more configurable UI, one without Google spying or other Google-serving bits (like the changes that Google was proposing that would have the effect of gutting the most popular adblockers, which Vivaldi and other devs vowed to undo).  They could have used Firefox as the backend for their new, more configurable frontend, and I wish they had, though I can also understand why they didn’t.

                Unless the Vivaldi devs were going to try to develop their own rendering engine, which would be a truly herculean task in this day and age, they had the choice of either Firefox or Chromium as the engine for their product.  Both of them are developed to meet Google’s expectations of what a browser should be.  One of them is faster, has about seven times the market share of the other, and is the de facto standard across the web, while the other is increasingly becoming a “niche” browser with an ever-shrinking market share that shows no sign of slowing.  Either one can be modified as Vivaldi devs, or any other devs, see fit, as both are open source.

                I’ve never used any browser other than Netscape or Netscape derivatives as a main browser, from 1995 forward.  I never used IE for anything other than Windows updates during the XP days.  The first time I even tried any Chromium-based browser was when Firefox “Quantum” came out and I wanted to see if all of the functionality that Mozilla had removed from Firefox had made it as fast as Chromium (short answer: no).

                Chromium itself (which has the same UI as Chrome) has such a bad UI that I consider it to be close to unusable, and you can’t fix it with addons or stylesheets.  Firefox’s UI prior to Australis was as close to ideal as any, and even after Australis, addons like Classic Theme Restorer meant that Chrome didn’t stand a chance in the UI department.  As fast and popular as Chrome was, it couldn’t overcome its terrible UI, at least to my way of thinking.  Unfortunately, it didn’t have to, as Mozilla would keep making Firefox’s UI as bad as Chrome’s, and then start removing the leftover bits from its past, a time when the idea was to give the users the browser the way they wanted it, that would allow the user to make the UI better.

                As it stands, I have Vivaldi and a few other Chromium-based browsers installed so that I can monitor their progress.  I still use Waterfox exclusively for “real” browsing, and my fallback would always be Firefox proper, as things stand now.  I really hope they keep standing that way, that Firefox does not lose the final Chrome-beating feature, but it’s hard to miss the obvious march Mozilla has been making toward removing every bit of Firefox that makes it different and better than Chrome in any way. I keep hoping that at some point, someone over there at Mozilla will trigger that “but the emperor has no clothes” moment, but I’ve been wishing for that in vain for too many years to think it is anything more than wishful thinking.

                I’d try Chredge (the H belongs in there, as it’s not “Crome” that Edge is being melded with) if it were offered for Linux, but I would be wary of trading one spying browser for another.  Given that Edge had largely the same UI as Chromium even when it was a completely separate browser,  I don’t see any reason to think it would be any better now.

                Group "L" (KDE Neon User Edition 5.18.4).

                2 users thanked author for this post.
              • #2038203 Reply
                rc primak
                AskWoody_MVP

                @b and I had a little exchange about this same sub-topic here:

                https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/warren-googles-experimental-change-to-chrome-crashed-the-browser/#post-2006317

                We reached the conclusion that Microsoft so far shows no sign of allowing Google’s telemetry or ad networks into Windows via Chromium-Edge.

                If nothing else I read contradicts this conclusion, I think we may have a winner from Microsoft at long last.

                -- rc primak

      • #2021634 Reply
        EP
        AskWoody_MVP

        maybe unrelated but I saw this on Thurrott.com saying that Credge (or Chromium Edge) can be used side-by-side with Legacy Edge (or Spartan Edge):

        https://www.thurrott.com/cloud/web-browsers/microsoft-edge/225832/youll-be-able-to-run-new-edge-and-edge-legacy-side-by-side

      • #2021643 Reply
        wavy
        AskWoody Plus

        Good to know except :

        Microsoft-Edge-Update

        the option is not there Administrative Templates>Microsoft Edge Update>Applications.
        1909
        18363.476
        pro

        🍻

        Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.
        Attachments:
      • #2021646 Reply
        Alex5723
        AskWoody Plus

        the option is not there Administrative Templates>Microsoft Edge Update>Applications.

        Microsoft notes :

        The procedures in this article apply to systems that have been updated with the latest security updates, up to and including November 2019. When the new version of Microsoft Edge is installed, the old version (Microsoft Edge Legacy) will be hidden. All attempts to launch the old version will redirect the user to the newly installed version of Microsoft Edge.”..

        https://docs.microsoft.com/en-au/deployedge/microsoft-edge-sysupdate-access-old-edge

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #2021682 Reply
          wavy
          AskWoody Plus

          I believe I have Nov cumulative installed, that should cover it, no?

          🍻

          Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.
      • #2084260 Reply
        EP
        AskWoody_MVP

        It looks like CrEdge will support Windows 7 until mid-July 2021 as recently reported by Neowin:

        https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-will-support-edge-on-windows-7-for-at-least-18-months

        the same support timeframe as Google Chrome on Win7

        1 user thanked author for this post.
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