• The future of Office: Click-to-Run, on Win10 only

    Home » Forums » Newsletter and Homepage topics » The future of Office: Click-to-Run, on Win10 only

    • This topic has 123 replies, 34 voices, and was last updated 6 years ago.
    Author
    Topic
    #163993

    Looks like Office is in for some major changes. The next version of Office, called Office 2019, is due out the gate in the second half of 2018. The of
    [See the full post at: The future of Office: Click-to-Run, on Win10 only]

    2 users thanked author for this post.
    Viewing 45 reply threads
    Author
    Replies
    • #163969

      From Windows 10 Client and Windows Server Semi-Annual Channel Lifecycle Policy update (February 1, 2018): “Today, we are clarifying how the Windows 10 Client Semi-Annual Channel and Windows Server Semi-Annual Channel are supported. By listing these Channels as following the Modern Lifecycle Policy, we are able to more accurately reflect how we already service and update Windows 10 and Windows Server Semi-Annual Channels today through twice-a-year feature updates and monthly quality updates.”

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #164009

      I too have moved everything over to Google Docs. I’ve been using it for a good 5 years and don’t have any real complaints. Although, when I first started using it I would have to create a spreadsheet in Excel and then upload and convert it to Gsheet. But that only lasted a couple of months. I have Office 2013 too but haven’t used it in a while and will probably skip Office 2019.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #164028

      I haven’t really had a need for an office suite since I retired 13 years ago. I bought Office 2007 for my daughter and son-in-law and used it occasionally myself, but it’s now out of support too and effectively dead, and it’s the last MS Office product I will ever use. The last couple of years, my curiosity has led me to try out free, ad-supported versions of Softmaker Office and WPS (formerly Kingsoft Office), as well as the open-sourced LibreOffice. Quite frankly, I found all three more than capable of meeting my limited needs these days and highly (but not perfectly) compatible with MS Office documents people have sent to me, and would recommend any of them to anyone who needs an on-device office suite as opposed to cloud-based solutions. There are undoubtedly other choices out there too, so there is no need for anyone who has a choice to be held hostage to MS Office any more.

      13 users thanked author for this post.
    • #164029

      Excellent strategy!

      Makes choosing so much easier and the new LibreOffice looks very fine indeed.

      7 users thanked author for this post.
    • #164034

      ‘Office 2019 will be “Office 365-style” click-to-run only, unless you put it on a server. Starting with this new version, you have to rent Office, you can’t buy it.’

      I believe one will be able to buy Office 2019. Click-to-Run is an Office deployment technology, not a version of Office.

      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #164039

        From Office 2019 perpetual volume license products available as Click-to-Run (my bolding):

        “Q2: Does this mean that Office 2019 will be subscription-based? Will the software get new features?

        A2: Office 2019 is a perpetually-licensed product similar to previous major versions. It will receive regular security updates but no new features after its release.

        Q3: Will Office 2019 require an Internet connection or a user sign-in for product activation?

        A3: Office 2019 uses device-based licenses similar to previous major versions. Users will be able to sign in if they want to. However, they are not required to do this. Key Management Service (KMS) and Multiple Activation Keys (MAK) activation are available to volume license users for offline licensing. No internet connection is required to use the product.

        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #164075

          Sooooo…Lemme see if I understand this.

          If you aren’t hooked into a server with licensing keys, you need to buy an Office 2019 key and log on to activate Office 2019.

          Once activated, you don’t have to update Office 2019, but if you want to, the update comes through the Click-to-Run chute, not Windows Update.

          Office 2017 had ten years of support (until end of patches). Office 2019 will have seven years.

          BUT to keep Office 2019 up to date, you have to stay on the Win10 upgrade treadmill. As soon as your version of Win10 falls off the update list, you won’t be able to patch Office 2019.

          This is all in addition to the Office 365 shtick, which is truly a rental.

          Did I get that right?

          How could they make this more complex?

          1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #164023

      I mostly use Google Docs these days. Free, easy to use, no hassles with updating… and did I mention it was FREE? If you must use .doc files and stuff, LibreOffice might be a good alternative.

      I am not going to shell out money and throw it into Microsoft’s mouth to use office programs anymore.

      • #164069

        Does the Google alternative software require constant online connection to function?

        Remember when Google seemed evil by comparison to Microsoft because they wanted to take your information in return for services? My how times have changed.

        -Noel

        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #164073

          Short answers:

          The Google Apps now run offline, although if you want to sync, you have to log in.

          Google is no longer scanning paid accounts for advertising info. As for free accounts, the situation’s murky.

          2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #164154

          In addition to Woody’s clarification, there is also the dark-mirror version of ‘what have you done for me lately?’ That is, ‘which one has hurt me the most recently?’

          It is an emotional response, but a real one that drives decision making.

        • #164594

          As evil as Google may seem, at least they aren’t charging for my inconvenience.

          Microsoft, on the other hand…

          • #164838

            Google isn’t charging money, but they are charging. Basically, they collect as much of your personal information as possible, then make as much money as they can with that information.

            Group "L" (Linux Mint)
            with Windows 10 running on a separate hard drive
            1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #164046
      4 users thanked author for this post.
      • #164328

        Does anyone know of any organization using Office on LTSC despite Microsoft’s long-standing recommendation against such a combination?

        The Long Term Servicing Channel, which is designed to be used only for specialized devices (which typically don’t run Office) such as those that control medical equipment or ATM machines,

        Long-term Servicing channel is not intended for deployment on most or all the PCs in an organization; it should be used only for special-purpose devices. As a general guideline, a PC with Microsoft Office installed is a general-purpose device, typically used by an information worker, and therefore it is better suited for the Semi-Annual servicing channel.

        Overview of Windows as a service

    • #164030

      Effective January 14, 2020, ProPlus will no longer be supported on the following versions of Windows. This will ensure that both Office and Windows receive regular, coordinated updates to provide the most secure environment with the latest capabilities.

      • Any Windows 10 LTSC release

      • Windows Server 2016 and older

      • Windows 8.1 and older

      What a self-serving hatchet job!  Win 8.1 users with several more years left of extended support get abandoned! Gotta upgrade to Win10 if you want ProPlus!

      Edit to remove HTML

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #164050

      I suppose their next move will be to make the Office Suite docs/spreadsheets/etc a proprietary format so you can’t use substitutes like Libre Office, WPS, and others.

      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #164071

        …With everything encrypted, for security reasons of course.

        Of course, if they go that far, who’s to say one needs Microsoft’s formats at all?

        -Noel

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #164155

          I think we’ve been past that point for awhile. We’re just waiting out the decision makers who dictate total compliance. Looking forward to a new standard.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #164347

            It would be nice if goverments would start requiring all official electronic documents to use open formats.  This would not prohibit proprietary software like Office; I would assume that Office would already be capable of using the various open formats, and if not… well, they’re open, so MS would have no trouble adding them to Office.  People could still use Office if they truly think it is worth the cost, the restrictions, and the ribbon… but if they don’t find Office worth the negatives, they would have a real choice.

            Using proprietary formats and having the entire worlds of business and goverment held hostage by one corporation is just silly when there are open formats just waiting to be used.  If Office is better, let it be chosen on its merits, not because of vendor lock-in.  In the short term, all it would take is to change the default save format in Office installations.

            If governments led the way, individual corporations may begin to follow suit.  If they started using open formats internally, reserving the proprietary formats for interchange with less forward-thinking partners.  Eventually, those businesses that share a requirement for open formats internally will learn of each others’ rules, and they will be able to exchange information openly too.  Bit by bit, the proprietary silliness would fall by the wayside.

            It sounds fanciful and perhaps too good to be true, but it was the same situation we had during the browser wars, when Microsoft was attempting to make their proprietary IE extensions the de facto standard, allowing them to own the web (including IIS and Frontpage) the same way they now own enterprise and government documents.  IE had around 95% of the browser market at one point… they came really close to making it happen, but fortunately for us all, they failed.  Now all of the browsers in current production are designed for standards compliance, and the idea of making a proprietary browser now seems (justly) absurd.

            Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon
            XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, KDE Neon
            Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, KDE Neon (and Win 11)

            3 users thanked author for this post.
            • #164413

              Thank you, Ascaris, for pointing out the two-way nature of submittable forms. Downpage here, there is discussion of the required standard for submitting information to the agency that restricts formats.

              You point out that where once upon a time you would approach a counter to receive the mandated pre-printed form; now the agency dictates what property you must have in order to receive the form. A burden placed on the citizen in order to pursue a piece of business with their own government.

              2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #164054

      So what’s the difference between ‘mainstream’ & ‘extended’ support? Is ‘extended’ for businesses? I ask because I bought my Windows 8 laptop with Office 2013 Home & Student Edition in Feb. 2013. I bought Geek Squad support for the PC for about 2-3 years, which is gone. BB didn’t mention anything about ‘extended support’ from Microsoft. Here comes the kicker…

      ‘Mainstream’ support for Office 2013 ends 04/10/18; about 2 months. ‘Extended’ ends 04/11/23; about 5 more years. I could buy Office 2016 & continue to ‘own’ Office. However, ‘mainstream’ support for 2016 ends 10/13/20; about 2 years, 6 months. ‘Extended’ for 2016 ends 10/14/25; 5 years later.

      Someone please correct any of these factoids if necessary, since I got dates & other information from Wikipedia. Wikipedia also says Office 2016 cannot coexist with Office 2013 & 2013 must be uninstalled before 2016 can be installed. Also, according to Wiki, Windows 8.1 ‘mainstream’ support ended on Jan. 9! ‘Extended’ support lasts less than 5 years from now; end date is 01/10/23. I received January Updates; if I install them but don’t see February Updates on Patch Tuesday the 13th, I’m SOL, right?!

      Bought a refurbished Windows 10 64-bit, currently updated to 22H2. Have broke the AC adapter cord going to the 8.1 machine, but before that, coaxed it into charging. Need to buy new adapter if wish to continue using it.
      Wild Bill Rides Again...

      • #164063

        Mainstream support = features and security updates

        Extended support = security updates only – no new features.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #164072

          Amazingly, I’m still using Windows 8.1. It didn’t just crash and burn the day after Mainstream Support ended.

          Feature creep will mean that sooner or later those of us on older systems will gradually find ourselves less and less loved, and maybe even just not be able to use a particular program or service we’d really, really like to have.

          There will come a day that each of us has to consider what to do “next” w/regard to high tech and computing. It has always been like this. Thankfully, for me that day is not this day, but I make no mistake, decision time will be coming.

          -Noel

          10 users thanked author for this post.
          • #164092

            Same here with regards to W8.1 and I don’t want anymore useless features that actually create another vector for more incompetent patches, malware, viruses et al.

            I kinda like a minimalist OS without crapware, so no W10 is on the cards in it’s present bloated state.

            Anyway, what’s to say that advertising won’t creep into Office 2019? Didn’t MS do that with a certain flagship OS..whether we like it or not!

            Win8.1/R2 Hybrid lives on...
            3 users thanked author for this post.
          • #164128

            Amazingly, I’m still using Windows 8.1. It didn’t just crash and burn the day after Mainstream Support ended.

            There will come a day that each of us has to consider what to do “next” w/regard to high tech and computing. It has always been like this. Thankfully, for me that day is not this day, but I make no mistake, decision time will be coming. -Noel

            If it had, I wouldn’t have gotten January’s updates! Noel is right; decisions are coming for each of us. What do we keep? What do we change? How does it involve hardware? Do we change to a different OS? Do applications & how we use them change? Lots of questions to answer; fortunately, time is still on our side.

            Bought a refurbished Windows 10 64-bit, currently updated to 22H2. Have broke the AC adapter cord going to the 8.1 machine, but before that, coaxed it into charging. Need to buy new adapter if wish to continue using it.
            Wild Bill Rides Again...

          • #164143

            There will come a day that each of us has to consider what to do “next” w/regard to high tech and computing. It has always been like this. Thankfully, for me that day is not this day, but I make no mistake, decision time will be coming.

            If you know that decision time will be coming, you likely also know that it’s not good to wait till the last minute to make that decision.

            I’ve moved to Linux Mint as my host system, with Windows 8.1 (and Classic Shell) in a VM. Over the past many months, I’ve been getting better and better with Linux Mint, to the point where I rarely use Windows, pretty much accessing it only to do periodic patching.

            So when decision time arrives, I won’t even notice.

            Group "L" (Linux Mint)
            with Windows 10 running on a separate hard drive
            7 users thanked author for this post.
          • #164157

            I think your description is reminiscent of when this decision was consumer driven. The makers would offer products at market. Shoppers would Ooh and Ahh over the new features. And the majority of purchasers would voluntarily move up, eventually dragging the stragglers along with them.

            When the maker forcibly removes the supply, and the freedom of choice, before the market forces show the desire that is what gives us that familiar rebellious feeling. I do recognize the economic sense of the decision. But we all here have filled severs with pages of comments on the reasonable reaction to having choice removed from us.

            Steering your customer is good salesmanship. Making your customer feel cheated is bad PR.

            4 users thanked author for this post.
          • #164348

            In reality, the day after mainstream support ended for 8.1 would be August 1, 2015.  I didn’t notice that the official (pretend) end date had come and gone last month… I made a comment about it still being in mainstream support, but it’s not, you’re correct.

            Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon
            XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, KDE Neon
            Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, KDE Neon (and Win 11)

        • #164133

          Mainstream support = features and security updates Extended support = security updates only – no new features.

          Thanks, PKCano. So once I’ve installed the January updates for Win 8.1 (& any needed fixes from the Windows Update Catalog), do I move to Group B & download Security Updates from the Windows Update Catalog? Or will Microsoft send a Security-Only Rollup? Also, are .NET Framework updates affected or not? I’m expecting any security updates for Flash still come down the WU pipe, though I recently turned off Flash in Firefox.

          Office 2013 is Click-to-Run, so any “feature” updates are still arriving until 04/10/18. After that, Office security updates are available until 04/11/23. Unless I purchase Office 2016 & replace 2013 with it. Then mainstream support continues until 10/13/20 & extended support for 2016 continues until 10/14/25.

          So, is all that clear as mud? 😉

          Bought a refurbished Windows 10 64-bit, currently updated to 22H2. Have broke the AC adapter cord going to the 8.1 machine, but before that, coaxed it into charging. Need to buy new adapter if wish to continue using it.
          Wild Bill Rides Again...

          • #164136

            Extended support applies to Windows only – not .NET, Office, etc. All those things are still a go until they reach Extended support on their own or end of support (like Office 2007, 2003, 2000).

            MS doesn’t send security-only updates through WU. You will continue to get the Monthly Rollups which contain security and IE updates and fixes until EOL in 2023. They just won’t be adding “improvements” and you will have to pay if you are dum…. er, uninformed enough to call MS Support.

            2 users thanked author for this post.
            • #164146

              MS doesn’t send security-only updates through WU. You will continue to get the Monthly Rollups which contain security and IE updates and fixes until EOL in 2023. They just won’t be adding “improvements” and you will have to pay if you are dum…. er, uninformed enough to call MS Support.

              So my “2018-02 Security Monthly Quality Rollup for Windows 8.1” will actually contain only security, plus IE updates & fixes? All righty, then… I haven’t called MS Support since I bought my machine!

              Bought a refurbished Windows 10 64-bit, currently updated to 22H2. Have broke the AC adapter cord going to the 8.1 machine, but before that, coaxed it into charging. Need to buy new adapter if wish to continue using it.
              Wild Bill Rides Again...

            • #164169

              Mainstream vs. extended support can apply to Office products. Search at Search product lifecycle.

              1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #164089

        Wikipedia also says Office 2016 cannot coexist with Office 2013 & 2013 must be uninstalled before 2016 can be installed.

        For what it’s worth, my wife is running an even older version of MS Office (2007) alongside Office 2016 in her Windows 10 PC. We used “easy transfer” software to migrate her 2007 installation from her Windows 7 PC over to the new computer. Later on, she decided to activate the Office 2016 that came pre-installed, and the two versions are getting along fine.

         

        • #164124

          Wikipedia also says Office 2016 cannot coexist with Office 2013 & 2013 must be uninstalled before 2016 can be installed.

          For what it’s worth, my wife is running an even older version of MS Office (2007) alongside Office 2016 in her Windows 10 PC. We used “easy transfer” software to migrate her 2007 installation from her Windows 7 PC over to the new computer. Later on, she decided to activate the Office 2016 that came pre-installed, and the two versions are getting along fine.

          According to Wikipedia (& Cybertooth’s wife proves it!): “Microsoft Office 2016 cannot coexist with Microsoft Office 2013 apps, but it can coexist with earlier versions of Microsoft Office, such as 2003, 2007, and 2010.” Huzzah… but 2016 still can’t “coexist” with 2013. 🙁

          Bought a refurbished Windows 10 64-bit, currently updated to 22H2. Have broke the AC adapter cord going to the 8.1 machine, but before that, coaxed it into charging. Need to buy new adapter if wish to continue using it.
          Wild Bill Rides Again...

    • #164056

      It was fairly inevitable this was coming. MS tried deception to get users to install Win10 now they’re reduced to coercion. Show what MS thinks about Win10 themselves if they feel the need to use these tactics.

      Perhaps they’d have better luck giving end users what they want rather than what MS wants

      7 users thanked author for this post.
    • #164059

      Sure feels like the end of an era.

      7 users thanked author for this post.
    • #164061

      I’ve been using LibreOffice for a while now. I only keep Office 2007 installed because I have some old contact information in Outlook and I have a lot of notebooks in OneNote 2007. I’m currently working on moving that stuff out. Once it’s done, MS Office is gone completely. There is just something about the words “Cloud” and “Subscription” that gives me the chills and I don’t want my personal files anywhere near it.

      Group "L": Linux Mint dual-booting Windows 10 Pro.

      9 users thanked author for this post.
    • #164060

      Ever since Microsoft starting playing games with their Email to when they tried to trick people into the Windows 10 upgrade last summer I have tied to stop using all Microsoft products and used a combination of everyone else.  I stopped using Internet Explorer and went to Firefox a long time ago when Woody recommended it.    I stopped using  Hotmail and went to Gmail at that I started using their DOC for spreadsheets ETC and it works great for my needs.

      Maybe if more people starting doing it Microsoft will start doing things their customers want and stop thinking everyone has to bow to their wishes.

      Now if I could  find a good viable replacement for Skype I would be very happy.  If anyone knows of one I would really appreciate hearing about it.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #164068

      What does it say about the direction of computing / high tech when everyone, at some point, says something like,

      “I’ll just keep using the XXXXXXX package I have now, because it does what I need and I have a permanent license”.

      We know what it says – it says two things:

      1. No one thinks an “as a service” model where you pay as you go is likely to provide as much value as what we got before with the traditional “buy a license and use the software indefinitely” scheme.

      2. Even though we all know it’s always been a license to use the software and we don’t own it, no one likes the idea that software will stop working arbitrarily if we miss a payment. We also don’t like having to remain connected online for the software to get permission to work – even though we have no intention of disconnecting.

      -Noel

      • #164221

        For most home users SaaS is a waste of money. For almost all, their needs are more than adequately met by LibreOffice, Gimp, or other FOSS applications. Professionals might opt for targeted SaaS; photographers might go for Photoshop, developers might go for JetBrains, etc. SaaS for most users has little benefit and you are getting nicked every month for the privilege. No thanks.

        As for Office 2019, since I will not use W10 ever then Office 2019 is dead on arrival for me. I find LibreOffice more than adequate with Calligra (Linux office suite) as a backup works well and both are free.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #164241

        Well said Noel. This is why I continue to use Quicken 2000, on a Win 7 x64 laptop.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #164076

      Now if I could find a good viable replacement for Skype I would be very happy. If anyone knows of one I would really appreciate hearing about it.

      Didn’t Amazon bring out something similar to Skype. It was a while back but I’m sure I remember seeing something. I never followed it up as I personally have no real use for Skype (or similar services) myself

    • #164078

      Office 2016 would be pretty enough, i don’t expect Office 2019 to be distinguishably different

    • #164079

      Little by little the prospect of a realistic post-Windows future begins to emerge: start with a Chromebook and Google Docs………………………………………

    • #164081

      I think its patently apparent its a cash grab for the future, yeah I have heard all the arguments of its moving to to the “Cloud,” its better in the “cloud” If your working Offline with no Web access its nigh impossible to retrieve docs, templates etc that you may need. Not everywhere is connected. It used to be on Aircraft you could’nt connect but you can now on most carriers but it cost’s an arm and a leg or is of poor quality as to be virtually useless.
      Never used Off365 but what I have seen of it its not up to much.
      What about the small user who wants an install “one shot deal” and uses Office about twice a year? your going to pay how much? for something you don’t really use.
      You watch it will see the rise of the free Office Suite’s such as Libre Office or people running out of date Office installations, out of support with all the “perils and pitfalls” that entails. In fact thinking ahead when M$ realise’s that the free Office Apps etc are eating in to its territory I can see them trying to make the free Office Docs etc incompatible with whichever incarnation of Office that’ll be around in the next decade.
      Well not really impossible to see this coming but a sad day to say the least.

      4 users thanked author for this post.
      • #164115

        Great points!

        I still believe the one large group of Americans* that will be left behind in the change are the same groups currently left behind and ignored, and those groups are those without true high-speed internet. Rural and mountainous areas sometimes do not have access to high-speed networks, or have have alleged “high-speed” internet, but it is often hampered by subpar speeds and frequently crippled by tiny data caps that are actually punative when exceeded.

        These are the folks that are disenfranchised by the always connected, cloud-based solutions that work so well in a fiberoptic urban or suburban based ISP world. Cloud storage and bi-annual multi-gig OS ‘upgrades’ are highly problematic. Commercial carriers will not upgrade their services appreciably due to limited revenue to be realized, or they would have by now, if only to allow realistic WiFi speeds to feed smartphones.

        I am retired, and we are looking to relocate to a less crowded area, but with our self-imposed requirement for high-speed internet, many of the truely attractive locations begin to have limitations.

        * Take a look at international bandwidth, speed, and costs by country, and the US is behind the curve, both in speed and costs.

        8 users thanked author for this post.
        • #164129

          The situation you describe exists 40 miles from where I live and for another 200+ miles to the south only pockets of real broadband exist around the larger towns.  State grants were announced last week to make further incremental improvements in broadband access but overall it’s still not very good.

          Nationwide in the U.S., population, wealth, and power have become more concentrated in urban areas, especially the suburbs.  Software that assumes constant, high-speed connection is one more aspect of our lives built on the unthinking assumption that these are the only people whose voices need to be heard.

          5 users thanked author for this post.
          • #164187

            To be fair to those urbanites, not all of them qualify for class-envy. There are many individuals in the supporting class that also benefit from location, location, location. Rolling out new infrastructure in a dense population of limited geography is simplified, cheaper, and gives the biggest return on short investment in customer goodwill.

            The tragedy is that rural areas, which also includes a few of the VERY wealthy, are ignored for so long that they are two or three levels of innovation behind the curve. It is normal to invest development ‘on the come’ in the cities. Knowing the return will come quickly. But out in the countryside, the recovery cost is demanded upfront, before installation. If you live on a country mile (or twenty) and every landowner agrees to pitch in, great. Otherwise the cost is too steep for most. And the innovation stalls.

            3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #164085

      So how is this going to affect me, the average user, with an Office 365 subscription running Windows 7 Pro x64 ?  If I turn off updates will this keep me at 2016 and if so, will 2016 continued to even be supported or will it just cease to exist ?

    • #164088

      Microsoft is free to say goodbye to me if they choose to. They’ve been progressively saying goodbye to me ever since they released Windows 8.0 with its hideous interface.

      I guess this is it, then, Microsoft. It was really nice while it lasted.

      Soon I will have only an “official” relationship with Microsoft, not a “personal” relationship. What I mean by that is, at the job I will use and support Microsoft products; but at home I will go elsewhere.

      It feels really good to come home each day and have Linux Mint on my home computer, with Libre Office and all of the other really great, free software available for Mint. Everything works so well WITHOUT MICROSOFT! And for those rare instances when I need Windows, I have Windows 8.1 installed in a virtual machine — I bring it out of suspended animation when I need it, and I put it back into suspended animation afterward.

      Windows is truly the step-child on my home computer. (I love saying that!)

      Group "L" (Linux Mint)
      with Windows 10 running on a separate hard drive
      12 users thanked author for this post.
      • #164134

        Sorry to disagree, but not everyone is free to abandon Windows or Office, at least just yet: people working for the government and many other, both commercial and not-for profit, organizations are required to use Windows and Office. Case in point: I have to submit some consultant vouchers as Excel documents. Some of the material for my own research is only available in the form of PowerPoint slide presentations.

        Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

        MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
        Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
        macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #164144

          At my job I use Windows 10 and MS Office 2016, but at home I have almost completely moved away from Microsoft. In my post I said “at the job I will use and support Microsoft products; but at home I will go elsewhere.”

          As I stated, for those instances where I must have Windows, I have a Windows 8.1 VM installed on my Linux Mint computer.

          My wife has Windows 8.1 and Office 2010 on her personal laptop, and I don’t see her moving away from that anytime soon.

          But as for me…

          Group "L" (Linux Mint)
          with Windows 10 running on a separate hard drive
          4 users thanked author for this post.
          • #164184

            True enough for those who have their own machines, control them, and do not need to use the ones at some organization’s office for their own paid work. Or need Windows and Office to communicate with those with whom they collaborate, or need to see work published as PowerPoint presentations (as in my case, sometimes) for their research.

            My comment was not about them.

            If all one has to do with a personal computer is play games, stream video and swap cat photos, the above does not apply.

            Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

            MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
            Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
            macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

            • #164464

              I actually do a lot of real work on my Linux Mint computer, most of it in Linux. On occasion I go into my Windows 8.1 VM to perform a task that I haven’t yet figured out how to do in Linux.

              Group "L" (Linux Mint)
              with Windows 10 running on a separate hard drive
        • #164249

          Well… I know the compatibility isn’t perfect, but LibreOffice can write in Excel format, right?  I don’t doubt that MS would make it difficult for LibreOffice to always read whatever Excel format is current at the moment, but maybe it would work the other way reliably, writing an older Excel format perhaps… I’ve never tried it; just offering the possibility.

          As far as getting info from PowerPoint presentations… Isn’t there a MS viewer to watch these that is free?  It may work under Wine… that is, if LibreOffice itself won’t do it credibly.  I’ve only used LO a handful of times for that, and it has always worked, but I know the compatibility must not be perfect, or people wouldn’t feel trapped by Office.

          Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon
          XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, KDE Neon
          Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, KDE Neon (and Win 11)

      • #164224

        At home all the computers have Linux installed (Linux Mint/Arch) with Windows dual booting on a couple of boxes without Internet access allowed for Windows. Windows is used for a couple elderly programs that the wife wants to occasionally use (maybe once or twice a year). MS has basically lost a paying customer because of their stupidity. The wife, who is not that technical, has not had any issues with Linux Mint after a brief learning curve.

        4 users thanked author for this post.
        • #164374

          This seems to be where I am headed eventually.  And for me it’s more a path-of-least-resistance thing than a hard decision.  One machine running Linux to interface with the web, and one or more Windows 7 machines that stay off, unless and until I become so comfortable working in Linux and the associated office suite programs that I can dispense with Windows and Office altogether.

          I have to transfer downloaded PDF files from one machine to the other, and I create PDF snapshots of web sites and archive those too.  But I practically never transfer Word or Excel files; about the only time I use Office on the internet computer is to open a file that someone sent me.  The other machine, the one I work on, goes onto the internet only to update software.  So it’s not such a hard decision for me.

           

           

    • #164082

      The Marketing guys win the day. Control the ‘Best By’ date, resize the package and price accordingly. Ensure that sales tout the changes as concentrated quality and exclusive positioning. No-one has any idea what that means, so it will have snob appeal.

      Office is an enterprise must-have. Sharing documents inside and outside the corporation on a ‘standard’ format is a requisite. Sitting on an expired version of Office is also no big deal. It isn’t as if Office updates are brimming with awesome features and improved stability.

      As far as Office 2019 being exclusive to W10, that’s marketing. The enterprise will be migrating to W10 en masse, by 2020, so Microsoft is reminding them that W7 is not the place to be. It is going to be more interesting to see how Governments respond to the migration reminder. They too have a very heavy reliance on Office.

    • #164097

      I have published quite a few articles and am writing a book.  Here is a real improvement that Microsoft could have made to Word, but so far as I can tell, has not.  What drives me nuts is my tendency to repeat word choices, which then hide in plain sight through one edit after another.  What I need is a feature that will scan a Word document for repeating words and highlight them.  I want to be able to specify the minimum number of words apart that they must be, and create a whitelist of words to ignore.  It would nice if the feature came with its own starter whitelist, which I could modify as I please.  Please do not confuse this with Edit/Find.  I am not talking about specifying the words to be found.

      This is one example of the valuable improvements that Microsoft could have made.  But instead they have been busy flim-flamming users with connectivity and collaboration (group-think) hype in recent years, while scheming to get us all signed up for a subscription.

    • #164101

      From Microsoft Office 2019 will only work on Windows 10:

      “Microsoft is providing an update on Office 2019 today, revealing that the apps will only run on Windows 10. In a support article for service and support of Windows and Office, Microsoft has revealed you’ll need to upgrade to Windows 10 if you want the latest version of Office without subscribing to the company’s Office 365 service.

      It’s a move that’s clearly designed to push businesses that are holding off on Office 365 into subscriptions, as the standalone Office 2019 software will only be supported on Windows 10 and not Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 machines.”

       

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #164098

      I have been learning Libre Calc for a while now and have benn movong rapidly up the leaning curve with Ubuntu Linux 16.04 LTS, all running in a VMWare virtual machine. I think most folks who are home users would find the LibreOffice suite of programs more than adequate to meet their needs if they dropped MS Office. I am setting up another virtual machine with Linux Mint to kick the tires. I am not sure if Linux could be the entire answer to replacing Windows/Office at this time but for most folks 80 percent plus of what they are doing they could comfortably complete with Linux. Linux does not have a GUI that is as well-developed as Windows and relies on CLI (Command Line Input) to do perform certain functions. However, it is secure and stable and IMHO updates more reliably than Windows, particularly W10. So a version of Linux could certainly be part of the MS answer in a dual boot configuration. I am sort of in the same place as Noel Carboni, namely I know I will need to make some difficult decisions in the future about MS software and it is time to do the R&D to ensure those decisions are as sound as possible. As an aside, MS is doing what Wall Street analysts think is best, namely become a B2B cloud based enterprise company and withdraw from the consumer market. I think they will find that the margins will be thinner and the return on the more capital intensive operating model more difficult to capture consistently. They will not have the future dominance they enjoyed with Windows and will just be a big cloud competitor among AWS, Google and IBM.

      8 users thanked author for this post.
    • #164120

      Microsoft’s made no secret of its desire for users to adopt Windows 10, but this is an unmistakable signal for those remaining on Windows 7 (and the few who bothered with Windows 8.x) that their time is up if they want access to Microsoft’s productivity innovations. And with Microsoft’s current mission statement being “to empower every person and every organization on the planet to achieve more” and Office 2019 representing the company’s latest stab at productivity enhancements, the message is that those on old versions of Windows are cutting themselves off from the future. ®

      From Todays The Register https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/02/02/no_windows_10_no_office_2019_says_microsoft/

      “Cutting them selves off from the Future?” or cutting M$’s projected revenue stream, looks good on a balance sheet projected rental Revenue rather than a “One Shot” chunk of Cash than basically a 10 year free support with little or no incoming cash.
      Hmmmm not exactly hurting for cash https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/31/16956528/microsoft-q2-2018-earnings-cloud-revenue now are they?

    • #164127

      Windows 10 only? Insert here the sound of countless users of older stable, mature and user-controllable Windows versions going “Meh!” and continuing to happily and productively use Office 2016 (and earlier).

      Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

      4 users thanked author for this post.
    • #164137

      I’m sure many Office users will just pay the price whatever it is. I don’t have much use for Office and there is certainly other options if your not somehow tied down to Office. By the time this hits were going to see Windows 7 on its last tour and so it doesn’t make sense for Microsoft to tie a new Office to such a old OS. How many use a Office version for years anyway, I know when I did use one it lasted probably a good five years or more.

    • #164138

      I use Lotus SmartSuite ’97 for my own personal use even though I have Office 10 on my Win 7 machine.  SmartSuite ’97 runs great on my old Win XP laptop and I actually love using it since I started out in the early 90’s using Lotus 123 and Amipro at my workplace.  They eventually standardized on MS Office and I adapted to it, but I always liked the Lotus products.

      I also have Linux Mint which comes with Libre Office that I’m getting used to so I’m ready for whatever nasty surprise MS comes up with next.

      Being 20 something in the 70's was more fun than being 70 something in the 20's
      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #164163

        Oh, boy, that brings back some memories.  SmartSuite ’97 was the last one, right?  1-2-3 was already really good–better than Excel at the time–but I recall getting being impressed with some improvements that were made in that last version.  I was a power user in those years.

        Somewhere in that time frame IBM took over.  We Lotus loyalists waited to see what happened, and after awhile it became apparent that all IBM wanted was Lotus Notes, and the rest died on the vine.  The weak link in Lotus SmartSuite was Ami Pro, which Lotus acquired from another company.  Even in 1997 it was apparent that Ami Pro had been overtaken by Word.

        • #164176

          There was at least one later addition of SmartSuite that I was aware of, it was the Millenium release (I think that’s what it was called).  There may have been newer releases after that but I didn’t keep track of them.  SmartSuite ’97 replaced Amipro with Wordpro which like Amipro was very easy to use, and I liked the new version of 123 with the “Smart Icons” which gave you quick access to the things you used frequently.

          The people I worked with who used Lotus 123 and Amipro said they loved both and also loved Lotus SmartSuite ’97.  We were forced to get good at MS Office even though we were much faster with Lotus.  Many more colors, beautiful woodgrain, and easy to use. SmartSuite ’97 had it all before MS Word, Excel, and Office came into widespread use.

          Being 20 something in the 70's was more fun than being 70 something in the 20's
          3 users thanked author for this post.
          • #164191

            It was the Millenium edition I was remembering.  I used them all from late 1992 onward, and it was the best.  Thanks for reminding me that they changed over to WordPro late in the game.

            One little example of something Excel didn’t do: Lotus allowed you to insert a semicolon at the end of the formula and add a comment.  I had notes to myself buried all over my spreadsheets.  That ended with the conversion to Excel.

            IMO, Lotus 1-2-3 was classic innovation.  Excel?  More a case of imitation and clever marketing strategy, as in targeting big companies to buy in bulk so their customers and suppliers would have to come along.  I wouldn’t deny that it took a lot of smart people to duplicate (reverse engineer?) what Lotus, for the most part, already had.

            2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #164140

      Bottom line, other than enterprises, I cannot imagine why anyone would RENT Office from Microsoft. The vast majority already own older versions dating back to 2000 and have no reason whatever to think they need different software.

      So, this is the end of Microsoft Office in the consumer marketplace.

      CT

      11 users thanked author for this post.
    • #164171

      No real surprises here.
      Win7 will have slightly more than 1 year of extended support left when O2K19 drops, so why develop it for that platform?
      I’ve seen rumors and ideas that either O2K19 will be built using .DLL’s and such that are only in Win10, and I’ve also seen mention that at one point or another it was rumored that O2K19 would be (or have) UWP apps, which would also tie into the Win10 exclusivity.

      People have plenty of options nowadays for word processor/spreadsheet/presentation applications. I think this is a dumb move, but that’s basically par for the course with MS over the last 2 years. Besides, they haven’t really done any worthwhile improvements or additions to Office in over 10 years, which is why most people either continue using their old versions.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #164254

        I’ve seen rumors and ideas that either O2K19 will be built using .DLL’s and such that are only in Win10, and I’ve also seen mention that at one point or another it was rumored that O2K19 would be (or have) UWP apps, which would also tie into the Win10 exclusivity.

        It seems like the only reason to do that would be to specifically follow Microsoft’s “Windows 10 or bust” strategy.  I doubt very much there is any performance-related reason to compile Office to run only on 10.

        It’s another slight to Windows 8.1 users that they’re being excluded… again, even though 8.1 is still (supposedly) in mainstream support, and is nearly identical to 10 at a kernel level, so making Office 2019 run on 8.1 ought to be no problemo.  I don’t remember another time that MS would release a piece of software that won’t work on a MS operating system that’s still in extended support, let alone mainstream support.

        It would be hilarious if WINE improved to the point that Office 2019 would run on it, but Windows 8.1 or 7 would not.

        Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon
        XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, KDE Neon
        Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, KDE Neon (and Win 11)

        • #164349

          Slight correction to my previous post– 8.1’s mainstream support ended last month.

          Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon
          XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, KDE Neon
          Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, KDE Neon (and Win 11)

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #164412

            I strongly suspect that timing is more than a coincidence. Announce the new feature the day after the previous major release will no longer receive it. Nudge, nudge.

            ‘Act now and your shiny new Win10 will be up and running in time for our latest improvement. We know you don’t want to miss out.’

    • #164178

      From If you want Microsoft Office 2019, you’re going to need Windows 10 (my bolding): ‘The company says, “As the pace of change accelerates, it has become imperative to move our software to a more modern cadence,” and that means no support for Windows 7 or Windows 8.1. However, this only applies to the standalone single-purchase version of Office (the current version is Office 2016), not the ongoing monthly or annual subscription service, called Office 365. Both Office and Office 365 include apps like Word, Outlook, Excel and PowerPoint.

      • #164179

        From Microsoft Office 2019 will force IT to migrate to Windows 10 (my bolding): “When Office 2019 comes out later this year, Microsoft will support it only on Windows 10, the company said this week. Organizations that want support for the new version of Office on Windows 7 or 8.1 must buy a subscription to Office 365. These moves will push IT to migrate to Windows 10 and ensure that any holdouts pay up for Office 365.”

        • #164183

          Also from that link:

          ‘Others viewed Microsoft’s decision as a harbinger of an Office 365-only world.

          Microsoft also changed its support model for Office 2019, offering five years of mainstream support and just two years of extended support, instead of the usual five. The company did not say whether it will offer another version of the suite after Office 2019.

          “Read the tea leaves everyone: that’s it for Office without a subscription,” said Jon Hassell, a freelance technical writer and consultant in Charlotte, N.C., on Twitter.’

    • #164177

      As long as the government & corporate sectors keep using MS Office, it is difficult for those who work in or with these sectors to switch away from MS Office.

      Compatibility is a big issue, & conversion by non-MS Office suites can be a hit & miss. You want to be sure that the documents that you send to your boss or clients look exactly as you intended — instead of looking like something that was done by someone with terrible formatting skills &/or a terrible sense of aesthetics.

      As for cloud-based office suites or other cloud applications. below are some limitations:-

      1) Besides the issue of individuals lacking 24/7 high-speed internet (I’m on ADSL connection with a top speed of just 100 kilobytes/sec on a good day), government agencies at some places are cutting off or have already cut off the internet for almost all staff due to fears of attacks via the internet.

      So let’s say you wish to share an AskWoody post or a ComputerWorld article with someone working in the government — you can’t simply send a hyperlink. Instead, you need to convert the webpage to PDF & send that as an email attachment. Yet their preferred (& only) option of PDF viewer is typically the ultra-bloated Adobe Reader, which seems to require endless patching.

      And there was a real-life case of how the police department requested a member of the public making a report to burn the evidence video on a CD, & bring or courier it to the police station. This is because the cops’ office PCs are cut off from the internet, so it is not possible to either view uploaded videos or download them from a file storage site like Google Drive.

      In addition, cloud-based anything is out of the question, when one needs to book usage time on 1 of the 3 internet-facing PCs made available for every government department (each with at least 30 staff) just to carry out some web research.

      2) If your document contains sensitive info, you probably don’t want to upload it to the cloud, even if you were to set yourself as the only user with access permissions. The so-called cloud is simply someone else’s computer servers — be it Microsoft, Google, Amazon, or Facebook.

      That being said, if Microsoft were to push the entire Office suite to the cloud, this might be the impetus for large (but no-internet-allowed) government clients to finally start looking for non-cloud alternatives, instead of handing the monopoly to Microsoft year after year.

      9 users thanked author for this post.
      • #164194

        You raise a good point about the real world in which all this takes place.

        This initiative will collide head-on with the accounting and other rules that require companies and other institutions to ensure and warrant under penalty of law that their systems are secure; with HIPAA; and with who knows what other such regulations.

         

        4 users thanked author for this post.
      • #164199

        To add to your point about self-imposed isolation for government offices; in my experience county level is the most abusive here, that may be a false read based on how much government service is borne at that level. Part of me suspects powers that be desire to stay more than one arm’s length from their constituents.

        The burn a disc approach was at least a creative work around, but I haven’t performed that operation in, gosh years I guess. And I agree privacy/security demands physical transfer and a written receipt. But in my trusted group that would be a clean thumbdrive or equivalent. Can you imagine that level of breach, if John Doe were permitted to submit a thumbdrive to an office housing equipment that is likely out of date and past support?

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #164271

          Paul said:
          in my experience county level is the most abusive here, that may be a false read based on how much government service is borne at that level. Part of me suspects powers that be desire to stay more than one arm’s length from their constituents.

          […]  And I agree privacy/security demands physical transfer and a written receipt. But in my trusted group that would be a clean thumbdrive or equivalent.

          Except that the case scenario that I described is operating at the COUNTRY (& not mere county) level. And from what it seems, the main “suspect” is not (just) the constituents per se, but the public servants — ie. the government does not trust its own staff.

          Initially, the publicly-given reason for internet segregation is to prevent intrusions & attacks. A day or two later, another reason was added: To prevent leaks. Shortly after, it was also announced that non-authorized USB storage devices are now banned across all government offices.

          What the above means in practice is that each division — consisting of various departments, with total headcount per division ranging from 50 to 150 staff — is issued just 1 authorized USB device that was specially ordered via bulk tender for this initiative.

          This storage device is shared amongst everyone in the division on a “working need basis“. In other words, if your rank is not high enough, you do not need  to use a USB storage device.

          Surmising from available info, it appears that the USB ports of government staff’s work machines are now disabled, ie. ordinary user accounts are further locked down to block USB ports. (The IT division can enforce this via Group Policy.)

          Only very senior selected staff (probably director & above) are granted slightly more elevated (but still non-admin) user accounts with USB ports enabled. And these ports are configured to accept only the authorized USB storage device assigned to the division.

          Government staff still have access to work email (via MS Outlook) on their own work machines, because the email server resides within the government intranet, & all incoming-outgoing messages plus attachments are checked first by the gatekeeper.

          However, another recent measure now also blocks government staff in certain divisions from accessing selected intranet services (eg. HR, procurement, finance, etc.) on their work machines. Instead, each division is issued a few special terminals for such intranet purposes. And staff have to request for a physical access token, as well as supply their details (to be recorded in a secured physical logbook) for every usage session at the said terminals.

          In light of the aforementioned circumstances, cloud-based applications & convenient document-sharing are not just impossible on internet-disabled work machines (ie. almost every PC in government offices across the entire country), but also a definite no-no in general.

          As such, if Microsoft intends to retire all local-install/ no-cloud Office licences, it is quite likely to lose a major enterprise customer in the future — unless it can somehow custom-design a very special type of “click-to-run” Office 365 that can be sequestered & solely maintained within the said government’s own intranet “cloud”.

          But then, even if such a special Office 365 is possible, I’m not sure if the government in question really wants to make it easy for ordinary staff to share documents & files amongst one another without intervention & approval from the gatekeeper. (It is already tedious enough to oversee the handful of authorized  USB storage devices.)

          • #164425

            To add to your point…

            I did not mean to present that I was contradicting your clearly understood case. I only wished to extend the conversation to a level that most readers experience at least once annually. Mere county offices handle a large amount of common folk interaction. You may have smelled us, ‘the great unwashed’.

            Edit to add: Public facing, that is to say citizen facing, interactions that I have had with federal agencies are usually conducted at a higher level of professionalism than county offices. Please do not read this as applying to all offices or officials. Only relaying personal observations of recent twenty years.

    • #164196

      Nobody here likes to be a party-pooper. But, in the middle of this heartfelt celebration of ditching Windows and Office, a sentiment I can completely sympathize with, I find it necessary to interject a reminder that the world is larger, more complicated than we can ever know, as are its problems.

      Large organizations, both government and non, have made correspondingly large investments of time, effort and money in installing, maintaining and operating the Windows OS and, along with that, Office. They have trained their own personal in the use of both. They are not going to gladly ditch all that investment in a hurry. Particularly when the necessary resources are in short supply (often chronically so in the case of government) and everybody there is always in a hurry to get things done and need to keep doing what they are doing without interruptions for unrelated issues. I know, because I am a consultant working with government research organizations. My monthly expense and labor vouchers have to be submitted, in one case, as Excel spreadsheets. And, as I do research as part of my paid work, I need to get information on the work done by others that, oftentimes, is distributed in the form of PowerPoint slides. Sometimes I collaborate online with people that like Word and keep sending their documents in that form. As a result, I need to have Windows, Office and some other MS products, like it or not, installed in my computers. I even have Office installed in the Mac.

      There is Office-compatible software, such as LibreOffice, that might be an alternative to Office for some. But as PKCano has pointed out, the way things have been going, and seem set to continue going that way, it would not be a big surprise if MS were to put software blocks that make Office documents accessible for reading and writing only from Office.

      From that perspective, things do not look too solid now, and less and less so the further one tries to imagine, without being too paranoid, what is to come.

       

      Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

      MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
      Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
      macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

      3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #164203

        This is why in my more speculative comments I try to remember to acknowledge that Microsoft remains the de facto standard of compliance. But I continue to see that as a bad thing.

        Part of me quietly cheers Microsoft making poor decisions. Hear me out. It causes pain, yes. But if it causes sufficient disruption, then we will pass a turning point where Microsoft will cease to be that de facto standard. Remember that feeling in the mid1980’s when you knew you made the right choice with your VHS recorder? Maybe you had the better quality Betamax and lost out. I’m hoping LibreOffice wins this round. But since it is available free in both currency and liberty, at least it will not be painful if I’m wrong.

        4 users thanked author for this post.
        • #164234

          I hope so. But organizations, large ones in particular, sometimes act on their own strange logic, or one that may seem strange when looking in from the outside.

          That logic might reflect a fact unknown to outsiders, such as a lack of means to implement the needed changes in a timely fashion. Another such reason could be that the bosses don’t want to acknowledge that they have made a bad mistake, and those further down the food chain are not too eager to confront them with those mistakes. Then, at long last, an acceptance of the necessary changes may arrive, kicking and screaming and dragged in by the hair. Or such acceptance may not arrive, and every one in there just has to muddle through, somehow, or look for a job elsewhere.

          Things one may learn after some years of observing, and dealing with, large organizations.

          Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

          MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
          Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
          macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

          3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #164225

        Older versions of Office used binary file formats that were not publicly specified and had to be reversed engineered (which was done). The current formats are actually containers for xml documents but have weird formatting information. Also, later versions of Word does not always correctly render older templates and documents even today. I have to save files made from one template in the older binary format so they look reasonable at work.

        MS has periodically obsoleted prior Office formats and in some cases does not provide a way to open those formats.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #164278

        OscarCP said:
        Particularly when the necessary resources are in short supply (often chronically so in the case of government) and everybody there is always in a hurry to get things done. […] I need to get information on the work done by others that, oftentimes, is distributed in the form of PowerPoint slides.

        Incidentally, in the government where the internet is blocked on all staff’s work machines, external parties who need to share large files with government staff have since resorted to desperate measures as follows.

        • PREVIOUSLY:  Upload large file to file-sharing or cloud-hosting site, & email relevant hyperlink to government staff.
        • NOW:  Break large file (eg. PowerPoint slides) into 20 or more smaller PowerPoint files. Due to attachment size limitations per email, send these one by one  via email.

        If you are the sender in this situation & have a car, as well as some time to spare, it is probably much less frustrating for you to burn the file in its entirety to a CD, & take it to the public service counter for despatch to the recipient.

        On the other hand, your recipient may not even experience even 5% of your frustration. From what I observe, the 9-to-5 staff in this government are generally not in a hurry to do anything, so opening 20+ PowerPoint email attachments is no big deal.

        The phenomenon is due to natural selection. Those who are driven to get things done quickly & efficiently are the ones who tend to exit public service due to sheer frustration wth the red tape & prevalent ambience of indolence.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #164387

          Anonymous (#16478) wrote:

          “From what I observe, the 9-to-5 staff in this government are generally not in a hurry to do anything, so opening 20+ PowerPoint email attachments is no big deal. The phenomenon is due to natural selection. Those who are driven to get things done quickly & efficiently are the ones who tend to exit public service due to sheer frustration wth the red tape & prevalent ambience of indolence.”

          True of some government organizations, not of all, or at least not of all in their entirety. On the one hand, for example, certain large cities, that shall remain nameless, have governments riddled with patronage and corruption, and things creep at a glacial pace rather than fly, because the few, the brave, who dare do real work to serve the public are constantly frustrated by the incompetent and, or self-serving, self-seeking time-wasters.

          But, I am happy to add, there are exceptions I have been lucky enough to encounter in the course of my career, at least within certain dependencies of the Federal government. Such as some very active and internationally recognized science and engineering groups in NOAA, NASA as well as military research laboratories, for example NRL. And people I know, that work in those groups (and often do so late into the evening, when the 9 to 5 crowd is long gone, because they want to get things done, and done in time), have shown no signs of interest in being somewhere else. At least until recently. But now we are living in such interesting times, full of changes, so, who knows?

          Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

          MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
          Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
          macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

          2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #164201

      Bit of a story, but it will link to the topic…

      There was the day that I received my first personal computer… a desktop, with XP Home on it… as a gift. It was delivered to my door… and I was a little intimidated… but was relieved to find all the connections were color coded… green to green, red to red, yellow to yellow… and there were fairly specific instructions included. I started it up… and it mostly worked for me, right off… and it was beautiful! I didn’t have internet, and wouldn’t have it for a while. I bought a copy of Windows XP for Dummies… and was set free to explore the world of computing. That desktop eventually had an internet connection, and then a larger hard drive, an external hard drive to back up to, and the power supply went out and was replaced… but it went on and on and on, for well over 10 years. It was retired back to non-internet access when XP went out of support… and hasn’t given up the ghost, yet.
      That is my story of how I got hooked into using non-free software. I didn’t know anything about hardware or software, or any of the issues that came with them. I’d been around engineers that used computers at work and at home (they were early adopters), and I had long ago decided that they didn’t do a lot I was interested in. My computer was different… it did things I was interested in doing, writing, photo editing, finances … and much of the most interesting things were what the non-free software was doing… and it came with the computer, or I purchased it on a disk… and I didn’t even have a clue that there existed a difference, that there might be an issue.

      I didn’t find out about the difference between free and non-free software until recently. I would have thought that an OS would be free… that I would be able to use my computer the way I want. I’ve been very frustrated by Microsoft trying to hijack my beloved computer with the GWX campaign… but Woody and the MPVs here kept me on track… and my laptop is tweaked as well as this non-techy can… but I didn’t understand Microsoft’s bad behavior. My feeling, despite all those EULA’s, was that I bought the hardware, and I bought the software… and it was all mine! Funny thing… Microsoft, and the developers and sellers of non-free hardware and software don’t agree… and it is clearly apparent that how they want me to use my computer is different than how I want to use it. That led me to experiment with Linux (slowly and tentatively, but seeing I will need some proficiency when Win 7 reaches end of life). I wouldn’t have looked in that direction, if Microsoft had been behaving better. Thank you, Microsoft!

      I found that others have been down this path, before me…

      The Free Software Foundation defines free software this way:

      “Free software” means software that respects users’ freedom and community. Roughly, it means that the users have the freedom to run, copy, distribute, study, change and improve the software. Thus, “free software” is a matter of liberty, not price.

      Microsoft is demonstrating the failings of non-free, proprietary software on an almost daily basis… to the point that the freedom to run software that isn’t approved by them will be removed from Windows 10, through Windows Defender. Thus, W10 was marketed as new, better, improved… and more secure…

      But… Microsoft products do not respect basic user freedoms… and it wasn’t built to respect them. It has a wide user base that developed because users loved what they could do with it. It felt free, as we were doing all sorts of things that we couldn’t do before. That felt wonderful, and accounts for its popularity. But I have only assumed a freedom that isn’t actually there. Microsoft could sell and profit from free (as in free speech) software. Anyone can. But, they don’t respect the freedom of their user base. They don’t respect me. It probably started as their concern that they were spending all this time and money to develop a product, and they needed to protect their investment. So… their software is proprietary and non-free. Most of us who used their products were completely ignorant that the choice had already been made for us… or that there are choices.

      There are free alternatives. Most people (I did) thought of them as free because you didn’t pay to use them, but that isn’t it at all. They support freedom… my freedom. There are people who have invested a lot of time and energy into developing them. They may not have the gloss of proprietary products. They certainly don’t have the advertising budget. It isn’t just turning to a Linux distro and having choices, though. There is freedom of our phones, Iot devices… and cars. Freedom. This, also, isn’t just an issue of Microsoft products, Intel processors, or Apple’s closed garden. I have found that I need to assess and choose products, in all their variety, based on whether they are supporting freedom of the user.
      I have to thank Microsoft for that. If they hadn’t made it so difficult for myself, friends and family to just go on using their operating system obliviously, I wouldn’t have identified this need, and continued to invest my hard earned money into products that do not support my basic, essential, freedom.

      Microsoft doesn’t just limit the freedom of the user, they are going all out on disrespecting their customers, dumbing down products, limiting access to products (small business and home users don’t have the option of using Enterprise or Education features), and changing the use of already purchased products to include telemetry and other unwanted features. They could provide products that respect user freedom. They clearly don’t… It is one of the problems of power and control… the temptation is too great to make others do it your way, the way that is most profitable for you, no matter how anyone feels about it.

      I won’t be buying products from Microsoft again. That includes Office 2019, even if it can be run without internet access… or subscription. I will be assessing alternatives based on the principal of user freedom… my freedom. Freedom is more important than an operating system, or program. It is essential to me, like the air I breathe… invisible, but always there. It must be exercised to grow strong.

      So… in the future, I will choose LibreOffice over Microsoft Office, in any form. There aren’t always equivalent products to the proprietary ones… but people are devoting time and resources to develop them.

      I’m including this link to Why Free Software is Even More Important:
      https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-even-more-important.html

      I respect the work of Woody and the MPVs here. They try to give me more information, more choice, more control, more freedom… but I wish that there would be more information about the freedom (or lack of it) for a user when there is knowledgeable evaluation of an operating system, or a particular program, or tool. There are times I want a life jacket, to fit securely, be difficult to remove, and keep my head above water… but I don’t want to wear that when I go out dancing… (well, when I used to dance )…

      Write that Microsoft Office!

      Oh… it did (this being composed on Microsoft Word 10)… I’ve got a ways to go, and am not wanting to give up what I’ve used comfortably for years… but it looks like the next time I buy a computer, or an OS, or a program, I’ll have a fairly easy way of evaluating whether to choose it… does it allow the user to be free?

      Future Microsoft Office, in any form, doesn’t meet the freedom criteria.

      Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter

      • #164258

        Outstanding post.  Thanks for sharing that!

         

        Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon
        XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, KDE Neon
        Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, KDE Neon (and Win 11)

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #164286

        Elly said:
        I won’t be buying products from Microsoft again. That includes Office 2019, even if it can be run without internet access… or subscription. I will be assessing alternatives based on the principal of user freedom… my freedom.

        Thanks for sharing your experience & thoughts. Your empowering words are an inspiration.

        Perhaps the software ecosystem got so toxic & disrespectful, because it is so overwhelmingly monopolized by a few powerful players, whose sheer dominance effectively intimidates end-users into thinking that there might be no better alternatives other than the status quo.

        But “the world is surely wide enough to walk without fear”.

        #TimesUp Microsoft

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #164408

        Ely wrote:

        “Microsoft doesn’t just limit the freedom of the user, they are going all out on disrespecting their customers, dumbing down products, limiting access to products (small business and home users don’t have the option of using Enterprise or Education features), and changing the use of already purchased products to include telemetry and other unwanted features. They could provide products that respect user freedom. They clearly don’t… It is one of the problems of power and control… the temptation is too great to make others do it your way, the way that is most profitable for you, no matter how anyone feels about it.”

        So very true. Ely describes some consequences of what monopolistic corporations tend to do, without serious competitors that can get in their way and keep them in check, operating within regulatory frameworks with loopholes crafted by well-paid shills hovering near government from places such as DC’s K Street, and putting the interest of their shareholders and investors above everything else by acting to serve their financial interests beyond what their own managerial due-diligence obligations would require. While their customers tend to be treated more as cash cows that, when not being milked, should neither be seen nor heard (e.g., in the EULA fine print: “No law suits of any kind from you: only arbitration, and we, not you, get to pick the arbitrator”), rather than as people paying them to be served.

        Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

        MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
        Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
        macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

      • #164452

        @Elly, well said.

        greynad

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #164229

      When I write, I use my pen. When I do calculations, I use my calculator. Totally offline, free from advertising, zero-risk of being hacked, 100% of privacy. Bonus: no Intel bugs.

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #164238

      Been a while between drinks here, so firstly Hello all…
      Interesting… things with M$ more or less still seem on very similar course.
      This may or not be welcome (hope it is, sorry if it isn’t) but noticing @MrJimPhelps & @LurksAbout mentioning Linux… I’ve been playing around Pop!_OS 17.10 & thought you might have some fun yourselves.
      See: https://system76.com/popLikely you already know of System76, they now have their own re-spin on Ubuntu 17.10.
      It’s based on gnome, but xorg (not wayland) & a few other pluses, guessing you’ll either love it or hate it. For those that love it… look out for the LTS arriving later this year.
      Get used to using the Windows (Start) key on your keyboard, it’s your go-to for everything, opening/switching applications, workspaces, files, folders, software, searches… literally everything!
      greynad

      EDIT html to txt (only simple bbcodes used here, but this could be a copy>paste issue?)

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #164261

        It’s based on gnome, but xorg (not wayland)

        Ubuntu is going back to Xorg too in the next release (18.04, LTS). Mint, my preferred distro, being based on only the LTS releases of Ubuntu, has always used Xorg.

        Get used to using the Windows (Start) key on your keyboard,

        Super key.  It’s only a Windows key when you’re in Windows.  Consider the logo silkscreened on it to be put there ironically! <grin>

        Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon
        XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, KDE Neon
        Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, KDE Neon (and Win 11)

        3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #164345

        Linux Mint is most often mentioned as it is probably the best general purpose distro for the typical user. It has all the necessary features users will need and is easy to use. The Cinnamon desktop is very similar to Windows in look and feel. PopOS is intended for more tech savvy users inline with the typical System76 customer. But being based on Ubuntu I suspect (never used PopOS) it probably has some added features not found in either Ubuntu or Mint that developers, etc. want in addition to the base Ubuntu. This highlights one the great advantages and disadvantages (it’s both simultaneously) of Linux; distros can target different users’ needs and skills more specifically. But this means there are plethora of excellent distros available which can be confusing to someone trying figure out which one to use.

        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #164433

          No copy/paste this time… sorry about previous.


          @Ascaris
          , pretty much yes, yes, and yes.

          Currently, my daily drive is Mint and has been for a while. It is a great system.

          As a Windows site, I thought Windows (Start) might’ve been more helpful to some.

          @lurks about, yes I recommend Mint too for the same reasons. Been my daily drive for a while. But I’m really liking Pop! and hope the only change in the LTS is length of support.

          Pop! certainly won’t be for everyone, easy for the more experienced to set everything up. I’ve set up a couple for friends and they love it. Also written an easy copy/paste ‘walk-thru’ if they want to have a go themselves.

          BTW, I/O scheduler in Pop!17.10 is CFQ. Use an elevator in /etc/default/grub if you want Deadline.

          greynad

        • #164836

          One of the things I like about Mint is that it is based on Debian, as is Ubuntu. And there is a lot of good software being developed for Debian. This means that for the foreseeable future there will be a lot of good software available for Mint.

          Group "L" (Linux Mint)
          with Windows 10 running on a separate hard drive
    • #164257

      If you can’t install Office 2019 on Server 2016 then what do you do in a Citrix/RDS environment running Server 2016 with a GUI?

      • #164837

        You’ll need to upgrade the server to a Windows Server version which will support Office 2019, if you want to run Office 2019.

        None of your users will need to be on any particular OS; but the server which is hosting the Citrix-available apps will need to be on a supported OS.

        Group "L" (Linux Mint)
        with Windows 10 running on a separate hard drive
    • #164276

      Memo to Woody (& any MVP’s lurking): If I remember correctly, First Tuesday (AKA Office Patch Tuesday) is coming up next week. Obviously followed by Second Tuesday (AKA the infamous Patch Tuesday for Windows). Since we’re still at MS-DEFCON 2, I’m not patching Windows with a 39-and-a-half-foot pole yet. However, has Office (2013 & 2016) been behaving lately? I’m tempted to update to January on Monday, then lock down again to prevent February from “bashing the door in” on Tuesday. Is that prudent? Or should I wait for the change to MS-DEFCON 3 or higher to patch everything?!

      UPDATE: Since I have Office 2013 Home & Student, I’m not at risk for Office 2016 problems, or for Outlook problems, since I’m on Home & Student, not Home & Business.

      Bought a refurbished Windows 10 64-bit, currently updated to 22H2. Have broke the AC adapter cord going to the 8.1 machine, but before that, coaxed it into charging. Need to buy new adapter if wish to continue using it.
      Wild Bill Rides Again...

    • #164365

      With regards to patching Office, that sounds like a good idea. As for Windows, there’s about a week to go, so I can wait for Woody.

      Bought a refurbished Windows 10 64-bit, currently updated to 22H2. Have broke the AC adapter cord going to the 8.1 machine, but before that, coaxed it into charging. Need to buy new adapter if wish to continue using it.
      Wild Bill Rides Again...

    • #164417

      I see one person who has Home and Student who is posting within this thread and no people who have Home and Business.

      Does anyone have any idea what will happen to those two permanent license forms?

      Personally, from a business perspective I am a solo entrepreneur in healthcare IT, which is all Microsoft stack for administrative and most other systems, other than some R&D and greenfield development initiatives.  However, if I were to retire, this conversation would be instantly interesting.

      • #164432

        My reading of the tea leaves is MS is trying to convert all users of Office to a subscription based license or preferably (for them) to Office 365 over time. The problem I see with this is monthly subscriptions add up even the individual amounts are relatively small. I try to limit my subscriptions to a minimum and they professional only and for Office is not a professional necessity.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #164468

      Looks like Office is in for some major changes. The next version of Office, called Office 2019, is due out the gate in the second half of 2018. The of[See the full post at: The future of Office: Click-to-Run, on Win10 only]

      As much as I kvetch about MS, and as much as I like a lot of Google’s offerings, I have to say I don’t understand your preference for Google docs over MS Word.

      I have never found Google docs to be writer-friendly. Besides that, I also have to share Word docs with co-workers–with tracking changes.

      Am I missing something?

    • #164521

      I’ve never had trouble with opening new Office file on an older version. I still open plenty of docx files on Office 2003, even (since I installed the plugin that opens them).

      It would seem to me the solution is just to continue using Office 2016, and, if you use documents you can’t trust, disable scripting and macros. Sure, some business might need those, but I wouldn’t think most do. So block them entirely.

      Also, based on my usage, it seems “Click to Run” is more an anti-tampering technology, and possibly an anti-piracy technology. It’s what is fired up when I use Office 2010 Starter, which was free with my computer.  You can’t bypass the restrictions because the files run from this fake drive.

      It also, however, makes it take a very long time to load up, and sometimes even fails to load, and the only fix is a reboot.

    • #164598

      As evil as Google may seem, at least they aren’t charging for my inconvenience. Microsoft, on the other hand…

      True, but as Treebeard said in Lord of the Rings, “Wizards should know better.”

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #164676

      Woody has altered the initial post to strike out this text: Starting with this new version, you have to rent Office, you can’t buy it.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #165893
    • #164848

      Bravo! Author, author!

       

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    Viewing 45 reply threads
    Reply To: The future of Office: Click-to-Run, on Win10 only

    You can use BBCodes to format your content.
    Your account can't use all available BBCodes, they will be stripped before saving.

    Your information: