Windows 10 S becomes Windows 10 Pro in S Mode becomes Windows 10 whatever in S Mode. Which you can turn in to Windows 10 Whatever by spending money (f
[See the full post at: The future of Windows is spelled with an “S”ssssssssss]
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There are isolated problems with current patches, but they are well-known and documented on this site. |
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The future of Windows is spelled with an “S”ssssssssss
- This topic has 109 replies, 35 voices, and was last updated 5 years, 3 months ago by
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AuthorViewing 35 reply threadsAuthor-
They were altering the deal; we prayed they didn’t alter it further. Now, they’ve scrapped the deal and are trying to force their MOs down people’s throats.
By the way, I love my new Apple… pricey, but worth it for someone running 12 programs that can’t run on ChromeOS, most of which can’t run on Linux either.
Fortran, C++, R, Python, Java, Matlab, HTML, CSS, etc.... coding is fun!
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Microsoft can be replaced. Photoshop can be replaced. If even one big corporation says ENOUGH! the change will be seismic and instant. Mark my words, or wait for it.
-- rc primak
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Bob, if and when I ever start a business, we will likely use Linux Mint on the desktop, Novell for our networking, and as much non-Microsoft software as we can.
IBM already gives its employees a choice as to whether they want Windows or MAC on their desks at work. Imagine if they add Linux to that list? They’re already deploying MAC for their customers, if that’s what their customers want. Imagine if they add Linux to that list?
IBM provides computer support for some huge companies. My thought is that MAC will soon begin to be deployed at a lot of big companies just from IBM’s efforts. The same could happen with Linux.
Linux is already huge on the server side. It won’t be that much of a jump to deploy it on the desktop.
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with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
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I started bailing on Redmond with Windows 8.0 Developer Preview. Now I run nothing but Linux. Even on a Chromebook (GalliumOS in a chrx-installed dual-boot). (Did I mention I bought an ASUS flip c302, just to make sure it had enough horsepower to run Linux?) Enough with these walled gardens and “always-connected” dumb-terminals already!
-- rc primak
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I don’t care how many different Windows 10 versions there are or what they call them. I just want to continue running Windows 7.
However, it does seem to me that if Microsoft were genuine in wanting to simplify the Windows OS by doing away with successive versions of Windows and just having a single version that gets updated from time to time, then launching a single product, calling it say “Windows Ultimate” and issuing 6-monthly or annual Service Packs might have been a much better way rather than the mess that is Windows 10 in its many incomprehensible forms that we see today.
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Geeeeeee……
What you describe sounds a whole lot like ChromeOS.
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Are you kidding me? Linux distros fo the most part are not on a strict 6-month cadence of upgrades. In fact Ubuntu, to which you undoubtedly are referring, is running into severe issues trying to adhere to its self-imposed 6-months cadence. Other distros, most notably Fedora, will intentionally let a due date slide by up to a few months, if they run into major bugs which need to be ironed out before their new version is ready to exit beta testing and enter the stable release channel. Ubuntu if anything is way too much like Windows or Apple in this regard, and the results are hurting Ubuntu’s reputation as a relatively trouble-free Linux distro.
ChromeOS, for all its offline shortcomings, at least usually makes a smooth transition, even if its updates are nothing spectacular the vast majority of the time. If the upcoming Fuscshia OS offers offline programs and a real desktop experience, I might be able to stop dual-booting with GalliumOS. But that is not where Google’s profit center is, so I am not holding my breath waiting.
As I say, I paid significant bucks to have the best of both worlds. But nowhere near as much as a single-boot ChromeOS Pixel Chromebook would have cost.
(I think of this as half the price for the hardware, plus an hour or two installing and configuring GalliumOS in Chromebook Developer Mode. Including a firmware reflash. Remember, I am a veteran of many dual-boot setups! So YMMV.)
-- rc primak
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Linux Mint and Ubuntu LTS have 5 year support and are released every 2 years in the spring (Ubuntu in April and Linux Mint in May) in even number years. Ubuntu does have a 6-month release which is optional especially if you are on an LTS release. Other distros vary. I believe Fedora releases every 6 months and I am not sure of their support period. Debian releases every few years with lengthy support. Arch is a rolling release with no specific version as it keeps all the packages at their latest stable release.
Most recommend Linux Mint as a good general purpose distro with a nod to the various Ubuntu versions.
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In light of the fact that Win32 (i.e., the foundation for desktop applications) is NOT actually obsolete by any measure other than Microsoft’s lack of choice to further support it, I don’t understand why Microsoft couldn’t keep supporting their desktop OS AND make a good, new mobile system. They’re a complicated, well educated, tightly managed engineering company that could actually have pulled it off.
I can only guess that they couldn’t actually engineer a mobile OS that anyone would think was particularly good at anything – it was just HARD for the poor dears to do – so they HAD to use every bit of their monopolistic control of the OS world to try to migrate people who don’t (never did, never will, can’t) want a mobile OS into using dumbed-down, big font Apps, completely ignoring that it’s impossible to get the same level of value out of such Apps.
As a content/software creator, I regularly use desktop applications (such as Visual Studio, Photoshop, Beyond Compare, etc.) that sport literally tens or even hundreds of on-screen controls, and use tiny fonts, across 3 monitors. That is SO different from Weather and Calc and People Apps that they don’t belong in the same conversation or even mention on the same day. Visual Studio is BY Microsoft, yet they conveniently forget that content creators will actually NEED those applications to continue to make software for Windows. It’s like the jocks in charge have completely stopped listening to the geeks.
Lest we make the mistake of thinking these “complicated” applications are only used by a very few elite, I’ll point out that Adobe has literally millions of customers. Visual Studio is used by a lot of developers. The high tech world cannot rotate around mobile Apps alone.
-Noel
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Are you hiring? 😛
Fortran, C++, R, Python, Java, Matlab, HTML, CSS, etc.... coding is fun!
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Noel Carboni said:
so they HAD to use every bit of their monopolistic control of the OS world to try to migrate people who don’t (never did, never will, can’t) want a mobile OS into using dumbed-down, big font Apps, completely ignoring that it’s impossible to get the same level of value out of such Apps.I wonder why sci-fi & futuristic movies keep showing those huge, high-contrast, digital touchscreens with normal-sized font & a user-friendly GUI (example from ‘Iron Man’) — when everything “modern” in the real world comes with a tiny screen with maddeningly low-contrast, giant font on a ridiculously-simplistic GUI.
A possible reason that I can think is that digital screens in futuristic movies are imagined by computer artists, while modern digital screens in real life are designed by computer engineers trying to please 3-year-old toddlers. And unlike toddlers, artists have to do real work.
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I saw a TV show the other day that showed what appeared to be a desktop… tablet. It was a normal 23 inch or so monitor, only there was no visible keyboard or mouse. In one scene, the woman was making quite a show of swiping through a series of images, with exaggerated movement to make sure the viewer saw her doing it. It looked like a regular web page, complete with left scroll and right scroll buttons, like something that wouldn’t usually allow swiping, but… well, she did. It looked out of place, but not so far out there that it couldn’t be believed.
What was even more hilarious was when she was typing a document of some sort on this huge tablet. She had the display pulled to the edge of the table and the screen tipped back at about a 60 degree angle, and she was typing away on the onscreen keyboard, again making a show of it with the exaggerated motions.
If you are going to be typing at a desk, why on earth would you use an on-screen keyboard? I have to believe this device was not actually a desktop tablet (too big to be handheld, so it had a regular monitor stand), but a touchscreen PC. I’ve got to imagine that even they come with a mouse and keyboard… but why use those when you can show how cool you are by using the screen as a keyboard instead?
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Before the snippet fades into oblivion, it says there was a sudden death of Windows 10 S. That would be good news, but then that doesn’t match what Woody (having read the rest of it) has said.
If the future of Windows 10 starts with “S,” I’d suggest it’s “Short.”
What I would not give for some kind of magical doohickey that makes people tell the truth (Wonder Woman’s golden lasso?) and an interview with Satya Nadella. What is going on here?
We’ve been told the push towards Windows 10 is so MS can save money by only making one version. How many versions of 10 are there now? There’s Home, Pro, Enterprise, Education, Pro Education, Pro Workstation, each in 1709, 1703, 1607, and maybe 1511 (it’s past the sell-by date, but it is still listed as current by MS), so that’s a total of 18 to 24 versions. Then there’s Enterprise LTSB, in 1507 and 1607 flavors (and more to come), Mobile Enterprise, Mobile, IoT, and S. Those last ones, I have no idea how many versions there are under support, but I would think “S” would be subject to the usual Home/Pro rules, so 3 or 4 versions for that.
That’s 25 versions or more, and now “S” is being split into multiple versions, Home is being split into 2 versions…
This is getting farcical. Is any of this real? Can’t be.
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AlexEiffel,
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WildBill,
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At risk of stating the obvious… a small point about repetition 😉
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What I would not give for some kind of magical doohickey that makes people tell the truth (Wonder Woman’s golden lasso?) and an interview with Satya Nadella. What is going on here?
I would pay good money to see Wonder Woman (or at least her Lasso of Truth) & Satya Nadella onstage. Better yet, pay to have questions asked of Nadella while he’s compelled by the Lasso!
Bought a refurbished Windows 10 64-bit, currently updated to 22H2. Have broke the AC adapter cord going to the 8.1 machine, but before that, coaxed it into charging. Need to buy new adapter if wish to continue using it.
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I’m really worried, I knew Microsoft were heading in the wrong direction as soon as they released Windows 10, this is really bad, let’s hope that people don’t just accept this and let Microsoft destroy desktop PCs as we know it.
While that was a concern at one time, I’m not so sure that it is today. Microsoft have somehow managed to combine the marketing mess of Windows 10 with an increasingly bad run of monthly updates to the point where there’s an ever more likely prospect of most desktop users sticking with Windows XP/7/8.1 beyond end-of-life support and relying on other means to keep their machines protected against what are largely theoretical exploits in any event.
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In all fairness, a large chunk of the present patching mess is Intel’s fault.
-- rc primak
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That’s true of this month certainly, but I was referring to a much longer period of declining reliability of monthly updates than just this month!
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For years I’ve been supporting the Windows community – clean installs, reinstalls, troubleshooting, updating, etc. I have participated in the Insider Program for Win 8 and Win10. Although I changed to Macs in 2011 and 2012, I have kept VMs of various versions of Win7/8.1/10 on them. I have learned enough about Win10 to help out here on the Forum.
But the buck stops here. I don’t want anything to do with Microsoft’s Win10 S***. It won’t get installed on any of my machines, nor do I even care to learn to support it.
The UWP apps are inferior, useless. And to limit the REAL programs you can install is signaling, IMHO, the death knell of Windows as a consumer OS. Unfortunately, this may also be the death knell for REAL programs – where’s the incentive.
The average consumer now usually buys their computer at the local tech store. They usually get the Home version and are ignorant of the fact that they have just become MS’s Beta Testers. This move is one more step in the wrong direction for the average User.
I really think MS is moving in the direction of the Thin Client. The end-User computer will become a dumb terminal, “always connected”. You will rent an on-line OS package, with the price proportional to how much leeway/power you need. You will have to specify the program content ahead of time and will not be able to install anything else unless you pay up and let MS add it to the package (that includes the MS Store).
MS has certainly trapped Enterprise. Unfortunately the average consumer is usually not tech-savvy enough to know they have options.
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Meanwhile, you’ll be having people buy Apple computers and able to do whatever they please.
Fortran, C++, R, Python, Java, Matlab, HTML, CSS, etc.... coding is fun!
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Apple?? Are you kidding? That Company is killing off MacOS entirely, and sooner rather than later. The result is iOS on everything they will ever make again. The exact same thing Microsoft is doing and Google with Android and ChromeOS has always been doing. All three, walled gardens with very few outside apps able to be installed or run. (Yeah, I know, there is open source Stock Android.)
-- rc primak
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I think you are right about that, PKCano. Everything Microsoft is doing seems to point toward them moving away from the general purpose OS market, in favor of having everything in “the cloud.” I’ve written about how I can’t come up with any strategy MS may be pursuing that involves the preservation of Windows as we have known it as we go forward. It just doesn’t “fit.”
The thing about that a cloud-based future is that it doesn’t much matter what you use to get to that cloud… it could be Windows, Linux, a Mac, Android, iOS, BSD, or some OS you got from that flying saucer that crashed in your backyard. All that’s needed on the client end is a little bit of UI to serve as the front end, much like how many Android apps are just native frontends for websites. Windows (as a general purpose OS) appears to be on death row, even though MS right now seems to be strenuously trying to project the opposite (“with all of the huge updates we keep doing, we can’t be planning to kill it off, can we?”)
Well, in a word… yes. Nothing else fits. The shareholders elected a cloud guy as CEO, and they got a cloud guy.
There’s nothing particularly innovative or new about centralized computing with thin clients. It’s the first kind of computing that was available as a commercial product, with a centralized mainframe and everyone accessing it with a terminal, which had only the computing power required to display what the mainframe told it to and to send input to that mainframe. It was the PC that was revolutionary… it cut the tether, and that was tremendous. The revolution in computing and the uptake of the internet, and the resultant smartphone takeover in consumer-level computing are direct results of the freedom and openness that comes from distributed, decentralized computing.
It might seem that smartphones, with their always-connected nature and their dependence on that connectivity to be useful, would be the perfect examples of the thin-client future, but I don’t see it that way. Microsoft itself has failed in the smartphone market because of a lack of apps… apps being small programs that, once downloaded, run on the client end, as if it were a little computer (because it is). If the cloud were enough, in and of itself, why did Microsoft (busy recasting itself as a cloud company) fail so badly?
Maybe that explains its current behavior. The cloud isn’t enough now, but maybe that’s the problem. They tried to force a decent app store into being with Windows 8 and 10, but that failed, so here’s the new strategy: make apps (programs that run on the client end) irrelevant. If you can’t beat ’em, change the entire game to one that favors you while everyone else is out playing the old game.
The PCs today would crush the supercomputers of only a few decades ago in any performance metric… the amount of computing power available at our fingertips is truly incredible. There’s very little upside to giving that up to megacorporations, and a lot of downside. Of course, it’s exactly opposite for the megacorporation(s) in question.
The decentralized model been the status quo for so long that the tethered, thin-client model seems new now, but only because most of the people calling the shots these days (people in the marketing department, it would seem) are too young to remember it, or at least to remember it well. I hope that the youngsters who lack the experience to recognize we’re being led down the primrose path with “the cloud” wise up really quick, because the rest of us that do aren’t being listened to.
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Thin clients as a general purpose product are a dead end. Smartphones (hand held computers as you noted) split the computing workload between the server and the client. Thin clients aka dumb terminals can not do this. This all the computing load is on the server.
It appears MS misunderstands both mobile and cloud. The mobile market is about device portability first with the ability to do computing intensive work second. But the device can do real computing if required. The cloud is more about decentralized data storage with some ability to process the data in the cloud. Both models implicitly assume the client device is a computer and some if not much of the required computing can be off loaded to the client.
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The thing about that a cloud-based future is that it doesn’t much matter what you use to get to that cloud… it could be Windows, Linux, a Mac, Android, iOS, BSD, or some OS you got from that flying saucer that crashed in your backyard. All that’s needed on the client end is a little bit of UI to serve as the front end, much like how many Android apps are just native frontends for websites.
There’s nothing particularly innovative or new about centralized computing with thin clients. It’s the first kind of computing that was available as a commercial product, with a centralized mainframe and everyone accessing it with a terminal, which had only the computing power required to display what the mainframe told it to and to send input to that mainframe. It was the PC that was revolutionary… it cut the tether, and that was tremendous. The revolution in computing and the uptake of the internet, and the resultant smartphone takeover in consumer-level computing are direct results of the freedom and openness that comes from distributed, decentralized computing.
I hope that the youngsters who lack the experience to recognize we’re being led down the primrose path with “the cloud” wise up really quick, because the rest of us that do aren’t being listened to.
I learned on mainframes & ‘mid-range’ computers like the IBM System/3 in the early 1970’s. Input was punch cards & output was printed. My senior year of high school, I went to a small business developing an RPG-based interpreter on a small (maybe a “mini”?) computer. Input & output was initially by punched paper tape & console switches! Later in the year, input was on a dumb terminal & output was printed. In college during the mid-70’s, time-share terminals were IBM Selectrics! You typed input & it typed back on a continuous paper feed. Businesses in the mid-to-late 70’s still used punch cards, but later transitioned to dumb terminals for input & limited screen output. Most output was paper reports. I was aware of Apple (II & other interations), but the late 70’s & 80’s also gave us CP/M, & PC-DOS/MS-DOS for the IBM Personal Computer & all its clones. As Ascaris says, the “personal computer” or PC freed individual users from being shackled to the centralized mainframe paradigm. Yet Microsoft wants us to migrate to “the cloud” AKA centralized control?
Bought a refurbished Windows 10 64-bit, currently updated to 22H2. Have broke the AC adapter cord going to the 8.1 machine, but before that, coaxed it into charging. Need to buy new adapter if wish to continue using it.
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I caught the last couple of years of old-fashioned computing in engineering school. We had to take our work from a big study room up a couple of floors to the mainframe computing center, where we handed our punch cards through a little bank-teller style window in the wall of the hallway. One of the priesthood would take the cards and we could come back in a few hours and pick up a big green and white printout.
A few years ago, after I had owned a couple of digital cameras, I decided to go retro and buy a 1950s Speed Graphic. It was fun but I quickly realized that I am not going to return to film, because digital gives immediate feedback and allows me to experiment without risk, which are key to learning. This is part of the legacy of the personal computer and Windows, also: It allows users to experiment and to see the results firsthand, without the intervention of a controlling priesthood, seen or unseen.
Current trends suggest a counter-revolution.
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Well said, PKCano.
Each of us reaches a tipping point where we can no longer stand to play their games.
-Noel
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The impending end of Windows 7, along with the new direction that Microsoft is taking, was my tipping point.
I have moved to Linux Mint. But I keep my Windows 8.1 VM around just in case there’s something I can’t do in Linux.
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Why do I have the urge to hear “Who’s on First” every time Microsoft renames/repackage their offerings?
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I keep hearing Moon Mullins from the old cartoons saying:
“Somewhere, somehow, something went HORRIBLY wrong!”
-- rc primak
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Woody sez, “…Mary Jo …says that starting April 1…”
Seems altogether appropriate.
HF
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From my perspective, MS has lost its way with W10. First there should be at most 3 editions: server, enterprise, and general purpose version of Windows. Second, the update cycle should be once a year preferably every 2-3 years with the ability to remain on the previous release if needed indefinitely. Third ‘the Cloud’ is more a marketing idea than anything technically new. Fourth, stop treating your customers as guinea pigs to be slaughtered while you try fix your problems and create new ones; we paid money for your products respect us.
The current situation is a disaster waiting with releases supported varying lengths of time depending on the subversion, inability to control updates as needed, and a genuine contempt of paying customers. This has the signature of spectacular failure in the medium term for MS.
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Almost seems like they’re trying to complicate it out of existence, eh?
Imagine having to work out how to get out of a successful business (presuming you really, really want to for some unknown reasons)…
-Noel
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… the doctor (MS) …
I read that and imagined that they only play doctor, in a most creepy way.
Microsoft needs to stop being creepy! It’s still possible. They’re not out of business yet.
-Noel
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I think “Out of Business” is the end game.
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Well with win10 not being a desktop OS, and the latest version of office that you can’t buy, i will never be downgrading from WIN7
I’m not seeing any reason to give MS my money , i may even by and store new hardware for spares , once no sercurity software vendors are supporting it, i may just stop using a PC and stop using the internet i will not be blackmailed by ms
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Like you, I am a happy Win 7 user (Ultimate 64bit). I can never accept Win 10 as my primary operating system. I run my OSes mainly in VMs anyway for security and maintenance reasons, but I’ll never let Win 10 run native on my hardware.
But staying with Win 7 long after it stops receiving security patches is not reasonable. Even with other security measures, you can’t keep it safe. I retired XP for the same reason.
I am trying to get up to speed with Linux. I have had some (mostly casual) interaction with Unix and Linux systems since the mid ’80s, learned a few shell commands, but never got that deep into the admin side of it. I’m trying to remedy that now.
I expect that by 2020, when Win 7 support is expected to end, I will be moving to Linux (distro to be determined) as my main OS. I am currently maintaining/auditioning several distros in VMs: Mint, Zorin, OpenMandriva, and Fedora. I have maintained some of these for over a year. I use the Pale Moon browser, the VLC video player, and LibreOffice in Windows already, so that much is an easy transition as these are available for Linux. For other applications (especially Directory Opus), I am still looking for a real equivalent.
-Bakharkan-
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But staying with Win 7 long after it stops receiving security patches is not reasonable. Even with other security measures, you can’t keep it safe. I retired XP for the same reason.
Installing W8.1 gives you additonal 3 years. That’s quite a lot and there’s not too much not to like about W8.1 if you like W7.
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But staying with Win 7 long after it stops receiving security patches is not reasonable. Even with other security measures, you can’t keep it safe. I retired XP for the same reason.
Installing W8.1 gives you additonal 3 years. That’s quite a lot and there’s not too much not to like about W8.1 if you like W7.
radosuaf & anon are both right. Staying with a Windows OS past the end of extended support is begging for trouble. I understand the Jekyll & Hyde of Windows 8 & Woody called it from the start. Still, in Windows 8.1, Microsoft gave a lot of something back to Win 8 users that MS is trying to take back with Win 10: control. For details on how to make Win 8.1 act more like Win 7 (a lot more than Win 8 ever did), get the latest version of “Windows 8.1 All-in-One for Dummies”. Hopefully it’s still in print & is available through Amazon. Upgrading to Win 8.1 does buy you 3 more years & time to do more research on your next step after Windows.
Bought a refurbished Windows 10 64-bit, currently updated to 22H2. Have broke the AC adapter cord going to the 8.1 machine, but before that, coaxed it into charging. Need to buy new adapter if wish to continue using it.
Wild Bill Rides Again... -
Indeed. Here’s a link from Ascaris:
2/9/17: https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/essential-tools-to-make-windows-8-and-10-more-like-7/
And another from radosuaf:
3/20/17: https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/care-to-try-w8-1-quick-guide-for-w7-die-hards/
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Woody struck the “Office 2019 can only be rented” part on his post about it. Either MS backtracked from the rental scam , or didn’t make clear that Office 2019 was “perpetual” AKA “buy it one time”.
Bought a refurbished Windows 10 64-bit, currently updated to 22H2. Have broke the AC adapter cord going to the 8.1 machine, but before that, coaxed it into charging. Need to buy new adapter if wish to continue using it.
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If the rumour is true, …
ask yourself, why are M$ doing this.?
Presently, through the Volume Licensing of millions of new computers, the OEMs, eg Dell and Lenovo, pay M$ about US$30 for each Win 10 Home that the OEMs preinstall on their new budget computers. This license cost is then passed on to the consumers as being pre-included in the price tag of the new OEM Win 10 Home budget computer.
With these new Win 10 Home editions, M$ will be able to extract more money from the OEMs and indirectly, from the consumers or computer buyers.
… Eg, M$ will charge the OEMs US$30 for each Win 10 Home S, US$35 for each Win 10 Home N(= for Normal) and US$45 for each Win 10 Home A or W(= for Advanced or Workstations).Seems, M$ and Nadella will not even let poor and non-technical folks escape their dragNet$.
Maybe this will be the last straw that breaks the camel’s back.
They’re really doubling down on turning PCs into phones / tablets aren’t they. WHO WANTS THIS?
BobT,
After reading this entire thread, I have decided that Win10 (any version) for me is OUT. It all sounds like MS BS (or is that BC [buffalo chips])? I have no use for BC, and VERY little, if any, use for MS beyond Win7.
I know, I’m being opinionated. Don’t like it? Talk to Dixie about it. (See my avatar picture of Dixie. She will tell you all about opinions.)
Dave
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I’m staying with Windows 7 and Microsoft seems to leave it alone. More or less. Except for inexplicable and unintelligible updates.
Carpe Diem {with backup and coffee}
offline▸ Win10Pro 2004.19041.572 x64 i3-3220 RAM8GB HDD Firefox83.0b3 WindowsDefender
offline▸ Acer TravelMate P215-52 RAM8GB Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1265 x64 i5-10210U SSD Firefox106.0 MicrosoftDefender
online▸ Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1778 x64 i5-9400 RAM16GB HDD Firefox114.0b8 MicrosoftDefenderWe have to take into account that Microsoft builds Windows for the enterprise. The Pro version was always intended for small business and the Home and education versions were only intended to promote and create demand for Windows (and Windows products).
Today, Microsoft is having a lot of trouble controlling the message and responding to criticism. You may have noticed that consumers are by far the most publicly vocal critics of Windows, whereas you hardly ever hear a peep from the enterprise. When the enterprise have issues they communicate directly with Microsoft and seldom share their frustration in a public manner, but when consumers have issues, they head for the tech forums and social media, to vent. The tech writers, bloggers and sometimes big media, not only report the issue but also Microsoft’s response (and at times, the lack of a speedy or appropriate response).
Windows ‘S’ mode is obviously a move to get Home users inside the walled garden and under Microsoft’s total control. Keep the user from changing anything or installing non Microsoft approved products. Though it will be marketed as an effort to promote security and safety, it is also a tactic to shut the consumer up.
Consumers now have alternatives to Windows – the problem is, many are not aware of what they are.
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I would disagree a bit on your initial assertion. You are right that M$ is first and foremost interested in the enterprise market. But they also care about the OEM pre-install market. The market they don’t care about at all is the enthusiast/ techie consumer who ever pays for an OS upgrade. Most consumers will never manually or voluntarily upgrade their OS; it will only get upgraded if that is an automatic action.
-Bakharkan-
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You may have noticed that consumers are by far the most publicly vocal critics of Windows, whereas you hardly ever hear a peep from the enterprise. When the enterprise have issues they communicate directly with Microsoft and seldom share their frustration in a public manner, but when consumers have issues, they head for the tech forums and social media, to vent.
Not exactly true. Many times IT professionals (the IT staff of the large corporations) come on blogs like this one and report the issues they are having with Windows 10.
Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 8.1 running in a VM -
The vocal critics of MS are the informal family IT department. When it comes time to move from W7 or W8.1 your opinion will carry considerable weight. They may not know all their options but you do. If you say ditch Windows for X they will listen particularly since you be helping them migrate. This is the real danger to MS. I will not support W10 ever. But I will support Linux, W7, W8.1, ChromeOS, and Macs (I do not own a Mac). This has considerable weight on the family and friends. There are 3 obvious migration paths and they are all away from MS.
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I see a dark figure in Microsoft’s future: it’s wearing a long hooded garment and carrying a scythe.
This is an historic opportunity for devs to adapt their software for Linux (and perhaps even Mac), especially professional apps (such as those for accountancy, medicine and law).
It seems that neither Brad or Mary Jo have tachnical facts about the transition or tried the latest Windows 10 preview builds
there are no new SKUs Per se, on the contrary, starting WIP build 17063 they merged and reduced the actual Editions to only 2: Home and Pro (with their N variants)
all other editions are virtual, special editions still separate, EnterpriseS (LTSC), EnterpriseG (the chinese) and the EnterpriseEvalmeaning, you only need the product key to switch from one edition to another, or “upgrade”
Home bundles Home Single Language, Pro bundles the rest of editions, Enterprise, Education, Pro Education, Pro for WorkstationWhat a fantastic start to 2018 from the folks at Redmond, The patch debacle Spectre\Meltdown is it Hype or a hoax? never mind we will brick your machine regardless ably assisted by Intel, then Office is no longer forever (well it is if you don’t mind the Cloud + Win10) and now the splintering of Win10 versions to various flavours of the dreaded Win10S (you can supply your own expletive for the S) Not really going to add much to the melee but any incarnation of the S version will render your machine to the status of a functioning but intellectually crippled Brick i.e. you really cant do anything with it. I need to see more yet, although I, as many or us no doubt are aware or can forsee, am convinced this will be another M$ debacle of the first order probably resulting in older silicon not getting a useful Version to which they’re entitled or potentially not being able activate. Better get this right M$ or in the words of the M$ ad from years ago
“Windows where do you want to go Today?”
Hmm the Apple store or the Linux free Versions Web site.
(actually always had a hankering to build another PC\Machine what could be better than a “Hackintosh” with a virtual version of Win10 S*** just to remind me what I am not missing) 🙁
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Sorry for being the interloper, but there is a site named DistroWatch (.com) that maintains a directory of operating systems. Beware that it is possible to quickly expend some large block of time attempting to read everything. 🙂
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@SkipH here ya go, sorry on my part it was a generalisation as in reality they are all over the place the beauty of unbuntu is you can make an install USB or .iso? with ease. A USB is easier with Rufus and also you can try it out out with out making drastic changes to your OS. Its really awesome like that. 🙂 Is that the same for “Mint” Linux folks? didnt try it yet. Roughly about either once a year or when I see a new Distro. out I will give it a try The latest version when setting up Networking with Windoze actually installed SAMBA all by its self rather than typing “SUDO APT-GET SAMBA” (bet I typed that wrong) Yes the “Penguin’s” coming up on the inside straight as a worthy contender to Windoze, not quite there yet but getting there. Comes with a Free version of Libre Office too 🙂
https://www.ubuntu.com/download/alternative-downloads
https://linuxmint.com/download_all.php
https://developers.redhat.com/products/rhel/download/
https://www.tecmint.com/install-ubuntu-16-04-alongside-with-windows-10-or-8-in-dual-boot/
http://dailylinuxuser.com/2014/05/install-ubuntu-1404-alongside-windows.html1 user thanked author for this post.
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Indeed, it’s just as easy to burn a Linux Mint (or Linux Lite, or MX-17 iso) with Rufus on windows as it is to burn any of the Ubuntu flavors. Making a live USB is fun, it’s nice to see what’s new, and how different distros do things.
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“She says that starting April 1 — apparently with the next version of Windows 10, version 1803, which doesn’t have an official “Win10 for Creative Creators Spring Followon to the Fall Update Update” name yet:”
An appropriate date, but given Microsoft’s complete ignorance of life outside North America, a correctly Internationalised name would be…
“Win10 for Creative Creators Spring (‘Autumn’ in the S. Hemisphere) Followon to the Fall (‘Autumn’ in the N. Hemisphere outside N. America, ‘Spring’ in the S. Hemisphere) Update Update”
There’s an old encryption method called Rot13. Seems that Microsoft has invented a new obfuscation method called Rot10. 🙂
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
5 users thanked author for this post.
Based on Mary Jo Foley’s ZDNet post, I navigated over to Thurrott.com but all the relevant articles are behind a paywall.
Based on what little I could see, a couple of things are puzzling:
1. In his report titled “Windows 10 SKU Moves are a Win for Consumers” Paul states, with satisfaction, that Microsoft is now doing what he’s been arguing for: offering fewer Windows 10 product editions. Question: how does adding all these new layers of “Advanced” and “S Mode” sweetness, amount to offering fewer product editions?
2. Another piece is titled, “Windows 10 S Failed, and It’s OK”. And yet, Microsoft’s response to said failure is to double down on the Windows 10 S model??
beep-beep-beep… DOES NOT COMPUTE. DOES NOT COMPUTE… beep-beep-beep.
Maybe there is a sensible explanation for these? I’d welcome it.
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Another piece is titled, “Windows 10 S Failed, and It’s OK”. And yet, Microsoft’s response to said failure is to double down on the Windows 10 S model??
Their whole “make the desktop look like a phone, add an app store, and sell phones” idea failed too… yet Microsoft keeps trudging forward, dead-set on turning the PC into an oversized, clumsy, harder to use tablet or phone. Again, it looks like they’re deliberately trying to fail.
Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/16GB & GTX1660ti, KDE Neon2 users thanked author for this post.
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I don’t know, to me, the future of Windows is spelled with “zzzzzz”
Never Say Never
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Apologies for the silly question, but I’m having trouble understanding and just want to be sure… will this apply only to the yet-unreleased lines of devices with 10 S starting in April, or include current devices with Windows 10 S already installed, or will this be something also forced on, say, a Windows 10 Home/Pro device? Like when the 1803 version of Windows comes around (or whichever update it will be), is it going to turn the OS into 10 S and then tell me I have to pay to get my old OS back?
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Quote from Woody:
As best anyone can tell, Windows 10 whatever in S Mode only runs Universal Windows Platform apps. Which means Win10 f(x) S in all its magnificent variants doesn’t run Windows programs. Stop me if this sounds like the Windows RT/Metro disaster all over again.
So, does the “S”ssssssssss stand for “Snake”? Or are those actually dollar signs (“$”$$$$$$$$$$)?! Does Microsoft actually WANT consumers/small businesses to drop Windows in favor of the competition (Alphabet/Google, Apple, & the many flavors of Linux)?!? Is their goal to keep the enterprise & OEM’s under the Windows 10 thumb (or All Thumbs & no Fingers)? Doesn’t sound like Good Business to me; sounds like a virtual Monopoly. BTW, see how that worked out with Internet Explorer?!
My short-term goal is to keep Win 8.1 together as long as possible, & the same with Office 2013. If I do decide to replace 2013 with Office 2016, its extended support lasts until 10/14/25; 2 years, 6 months past Windows 8.1. Long-term goals are to research Macs, Chromebooks, & distros of Linux. Will have finally decided on a hardware/software combination before Microsoft lops off 8.1’s head.
Bought a refurbished Windows 10 64-bit, currently updated to 22H2. Have broke the AC adapter cord going to the 8.1 machine, but before that, coaxed it into charging. Need to buy new adapter if wish to continue using it.
Wild Bill Rides Again...3 users thanked author for this post.
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I think the”S”ssssssssss is the sound of a fuse burning down to the inevitable explosion that will total this whole mess and trigger yet another unfathomable retitling/repackaging of whatever the h**l Microsoft think they are doing. Whatever it is, I want no part of it any more.
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Except that they’re trying to boil the frog rapidly… so much so that it looks like a deliberate effort to get the frog to jump out of the pot. (Even though the analogy itself is inaccurate; a frog boiled slowly still jumps out, but let’s assume for a moment that the adage is true.) They can’t have control if they cause people to run to the hills!
This is a site that’s mainly about Windows, visited by people who often have more than average Windows know-how, and so many of us are migrating to Linux (mostly Mint, it seems). We haven’t seen much movement in the Linux market share numbers yet, but it really looks like something is happening, in a way I have never seen before. There have always been disgruntled Windows users threatening to leave, but the percentage mentioning that, and the number actually doing it, is more than I can ever recall it being. I know I’m more fed up than I ever have been before!
Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/16GB & GTX1660ti, KDE Neon1 user thanked author for this post.
Here’s an amusing thought on the new 1803. This is the version I got using the Windows Media Creator with the settings of “en-gb” and “create for another machine” the last time I used it for a Win10 1709 version. Add the new “S” versions in to the mix.
Sure to be a Monster .esd file with all the new versions, no doubt it will be auto select as to which version you will eventually get, although you can get a choice at a clean install by inserting a blank VL ei.cfg file into the sources folder.
1 user thanked author for this post.
Wasn’t Windows 10 supposed to be the last version of Windows?
That’s like saying that “Windows” is the last version of Windows.
With this clever sleight-of-hand, Microsoft has managed to get everyone thinking that they are running “Windows 10”, when the reality is that they are running “Windows” by another name.
There has been no halt to new versions of Windows; you just think there has.
Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 8.1 running in a VMAs I write this from a Ububtu Linux virtual machine, I am sympathetic with the comments about the need to explore alternatives to MS Windows. I have been arriving at that juncture in stages ever since W8.0 was released. I thought that W8 was truly a ‘dog’s meal’ and reflected the confusion in Redmond about how to address the portable devices market. The totally schizophrenic UI of the first iteration of W8 I thought was derivative of the historical ‘Windows everywhere’ philosophy historically endemic to MS. The UI problems were partially cleaned up with the release of W8.1 but there was still a disjointed approach to the PC desktop with the uncomfortable marriage of touch and mouse cursor controls.
In retrospect, I have come to view W8/8.1 as the last OS of the Ballmer era at Microsoft which was still characterized by an emphasis on development of products for the consumer market such as Xbox, Media Center, Zune, etc. Several products were unsuccesful, but Ballmer remained committed to the consumer market and the Windows franchise. Windows 10 might be viewed as the first Windows OS of the Nadella era. It is easy to oversimplify things but I think it fair to say that Nadella has demphasized consumer product development as has cut staff and related overheads to redeploy resources to cloud computing and big data driven AI narratives. For ‘Cloud Man’ Windows would no longer be primarily a general purpose OS serving a diverse open ecosystem of software and hardware vendors who were MS partners. It would be used as a vehicle to corral and herd computer users toward cloud services to reductions in functionalities and choice. For those of you interested in microeconomics, this would be an example of abuse of monopoly power and is the rational for the regulation of natural monopolies.
Mr Nadella narrative for Wall street has been that investors should look at the growth rate of the Azure cloud platform and absorb his bafflegab about big date and predictive AI and forget about Windows and all that Ballmer consumer stuff. After all MS wrote down $7 billion on Ballmers ill-conceived purchase of Nokia. A stock market starved for growth stories and historical frustration with value destruction via poor acquisitions has give Nadella considerable running space, even with the overpriced $27 billion LinkedIn purchase. A thing about Wall Street analysts is they are fickle and things are not a problem until, one day, they are a problem. At some point, they will stop ignoring that fact that the offset to the growth in Office 365 subscriptions is the loss of software perpetual license fees. When the margins and returns on cloud computing appear too skinny, the pressure to raise the cost of cloud services might be frustrated by Amazons willingness to squeeze margins. The point is simply Nadella is abandoning tha areas where MS historically enjoyed strong competitive advantages and is rushing into areas where they can be a strong player, but short of being a truly dominant player. This is an interesting period but a difficult one for me because I do not believe Windows will remain viable for my higher end computing needs. I am running Linux right now and in the right environment if some of the major software vendors start showing an interest in porting their software to Linux out of defensive motivation, the OS environment could become quite unstable; PC OEMs such as Dell are now offering systems with Linux pre-installed.
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This is a useful corrective to the claim often made that the stock market values M$ highly, so they must be right.
If the stock market was always right, no one would ever make money in it.
1 user thanked author for this post.
In my little world, the “sssssssss” is the sound of air bleeding out of my 30+ years investment in using Microsoft products. Soon, that big balloon will be completely deflated because I have no intention of reflating it with a shot of fresh windows 10 air! And I can get new balloons in the colours of Linux and MacOS. Everything else is totally useless to me.
3 users thanked author for this post.
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There is an interesting view on personal voice assistants at https://www.wired.com/story/voice-assistants-arent-so-easy-to-fire/. One of the main problems down the line is that they are proprietary, and could try and lock you into their system…
An open source personal voice assistant is Mycroft. You can download and use Mycroft on your computer for free… and if you like it, you can buy a speaker thingy from them at https://mycroft.ai/
Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter
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Ok, let’s see what is going here.
Windows S is failing, except in a specific market, maybe, whose numbers might be biased. But what those people do with their computer and only the anemic app store? It sure isn’t the same market as the 60% who immediately turn Windows S into Pro. Maybe it is education computers surfing the web only. Maybe it is people who wouldn’t know there is another version of Windows they can use and they are not that happy with their computer but don’t do nothing about it? These people probably don’t buy a lot of software, as the app store lack of success would tend to show.
Now, Microsoft is working on a Polaris version for 2019 (hint: it will probably never be ready on time) that will be entirely based on UWP, apparently. So, in effect, they are trying to force everyone and the developers out of win32.
It makes sense on some level: simplify this awfully complex beast that Windows is, remove legacy support, improve security and make it easy for IT admins to control software installed and what software can do by restricting everything to a walled garden and a run anywhere on any device idea that Java had once that seems such a great idea in theory. You have a more streamlined computer, more secure, if done properly.
It all works in your head, until it doesn’t work at all in real life, because there is a huge legacy you can’t ignore and that is too complex to adapt to their new paradigm. Why do MS think so many businesses stayed on XP after the expiration date, why did they had to extend support? You think it will be simpler in today’s world to go from a win32 world to a UWP world? It will have took them years to port Office to it and you think Photoshop will suddenly appear as a UWP app making their users happy about the change?
And I don’t even need to add anything to what Noel said so eloquently about how impossible it is to create the same level of finesse with those dumb big font apps that is required for some professional win32 apps. Write once run anywhere simply doesn’t work for a lot of good software. And why do they need to still pursue this agenda when all their mobile business has failed anyway? It should tell you it is not just a matter of having developers on board. Mobile success has been there because it filled better a need that was filled less well by a computer before. The rest of needs that stay on the desktop is better filled on the desktop. You are not going to change that by forcing people on a mobile interface.
Windows S is not the same product at all as any previous version. UWP Windows has nothing in common with previous Windows version from a customer perspective. Why would you invest in this new weird platform if you have to start from scratch? Why would you choose that instead of, let’s say, a Mac that offers you the familiarity of the desktop if that is what you want?
If you are a developer of a popular not that big win32 app and you know all that time you devoted to Microsoft’s platform is lost and you have to start again from scratch, what do you do? You abandon the project like the Classic Shell guy ? You code for an inexistent market and an uncertain future platform or you try something else like Mac or Linux ?
Apple could grab a huge part of the business market if they don’t turn their desktop OS into IOS. They have what it takes to succeed. They have the GUI and a good Unix foundation underneath. They need to be more business friendly. But maybe they don’t see it as something they should have their focus on, not core business some would say. Too bad. I am sure there is still a lot of money to be made in the desktop computer even if it is a mature market, because eventually they break and you need to replace them.
There is an opportunity right now to start seeing apps that also runs on Linux, generate interest and then it could snowball from there.
Microsoft tries to grab a part of a market where they don’t excel at all by coercing users and developers to an hypothetically successful platform, playing me too to much better players than them. And as someone here so finely observed, they are letting go the still important market where they have a real competitive advantage.
Clearly, the future doesn’t look bright right now for computing as we know it. But maybe if this forces a change where Microsoft still do fine as a cloud/whatever company but the market for more traditional computing moves to a more free open world, then it might just be a painful transition to a more interesting future where software doesn’t need to have new not required bloat features just for the sake of trying to sell more stuff.
I feel that Apple lately has been going that way of let’s add bloat to sell novelty with IOS, at the expense of a lot more issues. I get a lot of complaints now from my users. Yes, they always want the last phone because some crave novelty for its own sake, often they don’t even know the difference with the previous phone, but that’s not very important. Most of them are mad because what they just really want the most is a phone that the battery doesn’t drain that fast and that manages calendar, contacts, emails and maps well. Now, they have issues with these things and there is not much I can do besides telling them to wait for an update that might fix their issues. That is not good business. I prefer reliability to the ability to mimic my face with animojis.
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… continue ….
Entry: Intel Atom/Celeron/Pentium ≤ 4GB RAM & ≤ 32GB SSD(US$25 per OEM Win 10 Home S license)
The limited 32GB eMMC Flash-drive will very likely not allow Win 10 Home S to be upgraded to newer Versions = will be EOL after 18 months.
_______ It will also not allow Win 10 to have many apps/programs installed, many data files stored and to run long term since a fully installed Win 10 system already occupies more than 20GB of drive/disk space. 1 year of cumulative updates from M$ can reach 1.0GB or more.So, it seems the “affordable” Entry SKU offered by M$ at US$25 per OEM Win 10 Home S license is mostly unuseable and for show or PR.
Most new budget OEM Win 10 Home S notebooks/laptops(= >64GB hard-drives) will fall into the Core SKU category which costs US$65.45 per OEM license.
_______ Today, an OEM Win 10 Home license costs about US$30 only. So, after April 2018, expect a new budget OEM Win 10 Home S notebooks to cost higher, ie by about US$40.1 user thanked author for this post.
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