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  • The most recent Servicing Stack Updates

    Home Forums AskWoody blog The most recent Servicing Stack Updates

    This topic contains 108 replies, has 23 voices, and was last updated by  TonyC 1 month, 1 week ago.

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    • #224459 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      For those of you wondering whether you have the latest version of the Windows Update Servicing Stack — the part of Windows Update that actually does
      [See the full post at: The most recent Servicing Stack Updates]

      10 users thanked author for this post.
    • #224462 Reply

      Seff
      AskWoody Lounger

      Thanks Woody.

      “Personally, I’d take issue with the statement “any update fixes either bugs or security issues,” ”

      So would I!

      Drivers and Previews come to mind as examples of optional updates that most definitely need to remain optional. Telemetry updates should also be optional, but of course they never are!

    • #224464 Reply

      anonymous

      I think Karl’s point is less about bugs and more about the fact that if the SSU is required in order to apply a Security Update, then the SSU itself is also a Security Update.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #224467 Reply

      Microfix
      AskWoody MVP

      Which is why MS decided, in it’s infinite wisdom, that the SSU-v2 kb3177467 W7 patch for was ONLY visible to install via WU once ALL pending important/critical patches were installed (or our workaround – hidden)
      Is the SSU-v2 perhaps on HTTPS opposed to HTTP connection to WU?

      Is this  method still applicable given that kb3177467 SSU v2 has been updated for re-installing Windows 7?

      | W10 Pro x64 | W8.1 Pro x64 | Linux x64 Hybrids | XP Pro O/L
    • #224476 Reply

      abbodi86
      AskWoody MVP

      What’s the speciality of 1507 KB4132216?

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #224477 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        Maybe only deployed to LTSB?

    • #224479 Reply

      WildBill
      AskWoody Lounger

      So if I’m on Windows 8.1 & moving to Group B, do I need to download & install KB3173424 1st, before I download & install all other updates from the Microsoft Update Catalog?

      Windows 8.1, 64-bit, now in Group B!
      Wild Bill Rides Again...

      • #224486 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        Check to see that it’s not already installed. It was one of the “speedup” updates back before the Rollups started, so many people already have it on their computers.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #224588 Reply

          WildBill
          AskWoody Lounger

          Thanks, PKCano! Control Panel shows it was installed on 09/04/16, so it was Recommended in the August 2016 updates.

          Windows 8.1, 64-bit, now in Group B!
          Wild Bill Rides Again...

    • #224478 Reply

      anonymous

      I just tried downloading KB3172605 from the MS Update Catalog (https://www.catalog.update.microsoft.com/Search.aspx?q=KB3172605)

      and the only version available is the 2016 version.

      For KB3177467 the files are dated 10/8 and 10/10/2018.

      My installed updates show KB3172605 was installed back in 2016; I installed KB3177467 on 10/3 when I installed the September updates (group B).

      The MS documentation (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/3177467/servicing-stack-update-for-windows-7-sp1-and-windows-server-2008-r2-sp) says it was last updated 10/9/2018

      I just checked for updates and neither KB2172605 or KB 3177467 is listed (just the Oct Office 2010 updates, the 2018-09 Security Monthly Quality Rollup [huh?] and the October Windows Malicious Software Removal Tool).

      So, am I safe or am I not (only the Shadow knows — certainly not MS<g>)?

      Group B (Win7 x64 — one machine left); one machine MX17 (formerly Win7), one LM (formerly Win7), one machine OSX10.13

      • #224507 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        If KB3172605 was previously installed, no need to reinstall it.

        The SSU KB3177467 -v2 issued this month has a classification change to “security,’ which the original did not have. SSUs are exclusive. That means they will only show up in the Windows Update “important” queue if there no other pending updates. In other words, the queue must be cleared by either installing the other updates or hiding them.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #224585 Reply

        anonymous

        HTH for other readers of this blog like me. An early post above referred to KB2172605. It is an anon post above no. 214478. After searching DuckDuckGo and M$ update Catalog, it appears there is ~no~ such KB; apparently the Anon writer meant to refer to KB3172605 (note that he or she posted a link re 3172605, in that post). People: It is ****** confusing enough making sense of these M$ escapades sometimes; don’t make it worse with your own easy-to-fix typos. Proofread before you post!

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #224590 Reply

          PKCano
          AskWoody MVP

          I’m on the typo. Have it fixed shortly. – Done!

          2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #224869 Reply

          HiFlyer
          AskWoody Lounger

          @anon #224585

          It is an anon post above no. 214478.

          People: It is ****** confusing enough making sense of these M$ escapades sometimes; don’t make it worse with your own easy-to-fix typos. Proofread before you post!

          Is #224478 the one you meant?   HTH

          MVP Edit: Inserted quotation boxes to avoid further confusion.

    • #224492 Reply

      ashfan212
      AskWoody Lounger

      Windows 7 x64, Group A. I had only installed KB3177467 on September 12, 2018 as a prerequisite to installing the September 2018 monthly rollup. Both installations were successful. In fact, KB3177467 was in my list of hidden updates at the time of it’s installation. After I unhid it, I do recall WU checking for the latest version of that update prior to allowing me to install it.

      I have two questions: 1) was V2 of KB3177467 introduced in September 2018 for those who had never installed KB3177467 when introduced back in 2016?, and 2) what is the significance of KB3172605 in relation to KB3177467 that was mentioned? If I never installed it back in 2016 and is in my list of hidden updates should I unhide and install the update? The article says that KB3172605 should be installed after KB3177467. However, what is unclear is whether I had installed KB3177467 – V1 or KB3177467 – V2 on September 12, 2018. Therefore, it is also unclear whether it is safe/necessary to install KB3172605 after KB3177467 – V2 only.

      I did notice that the MS support article for KB3172605 indicates that the support article was updated on August 22, 2018 even though KB3172605 was introduced in July 2016 – 2 months before the 2016 initial release of KB3177467 – V1. Perhaps this indicates that KB3172605 was also reclassified as a security update in August 2018 with no other changes to the update.

      I am assuming that there is no resolution yet as to whether KB3177467 – V2 is required if V1 is installed. I am also assuming that it is not resolved yet whether it is safe to install KB3177467 – V2 “on top of” V1 since KB3177467 – V1 is a permanent update that cannot be uninstalled.

      • #224548 Reply

        GoneToPlaid
        AskWoody Lounger

        …I have two questions: 1) was V2 of KB3177467 introduced in September 2018 for those who had never installed KB3177467 when introduced back in 2016?

        Yes.

        , and 2) what is the significance of KB3172605 in relation to KB3177467 that was mentioned? If I never installed it back in 2016 and is in my list of hidden updates should I unhide and install the update?

        Yes, unhide and install the update since it does contain two important security enhancements.

        KB3172605 was simply re-released in September 2016. I too have had KB3172605 hidden since it was noted that it could break Intel Bluetooth drivers. Lenovo computers were seeing this issue. The solution was to uninstall the drivers, install the updates, and then reinstall the drivers. See these two links about the Bluetooth issue:

        https://www.askwoody.com/tag/kb-3172605/

        https://news.thewindowsclub.com/please-uninstall-kb3172605-88008/

        NOTE: I just finished installing KB3172605 on this Win7 test computer. It installed with no issues, with the caveat that this computer does not have a Bluetooth card and is not a Lenovo computer. I have also removed KB3172605 from my list of updates to avoid whenever I reinstall Windows 7, since there is an easy workaround for the Bluetooth issue where appears to have affected only Lenovo computers???

        The article says that KB3172605 should be installed after KB3177467. However, what is unclear is whether I had installed KB3177467 – V1 or KB3177467 – V2 on September 12, 2018.

        KB3177467 v1 and v2 contain the exact same Windows Update servicing stack files. The only difference is that KB3177467 v2 will now be listed as a Security Update in “View installed updates” in Programs and Features under Control Panel. When viewing the installed updates, copy and paste KB3177467 into the search box. If the search result shows “Security Update for Microsoft Windows (KB3177467)”, then you installed v2 since a v1 installation will not include the word “Security”.

        Therefore, it is also unclear whether it is safe/necessary to install KB3172605 after KB3177467 – V2 only.

        Not necessary, since the actual servicing stack files, which Windows Update uses, are identical in v1 and in v2.

        I did notice that the MS support article for KB3172605 indicates that the support article was updated on August 22, 2018 even though KB3172605 was introduced in July 2016 – 2 months before the 2016 initial release of KB3177467 – V1. Perhaps this indicates that KB3172605 was also reclassified as a security update in August 2018 with no other changes to the update.

        KB3172605 did not get reclassified as a Security Update. Instead this update was simply re-released on or about 2016-09-12.

        I am assuming that there is no resolution yet as to whether KB3177467 – V2 is required if V1 is installed. I am also assuming that it is not resolved yet whether it is safe to install KB3177467 – V2 “on top of” V1 since KB3177467 – V1 is a permanent update that cannot be uninstalled.

        Both v1 and v2 are permanent SSU updates which can not be uninstalled. As mentioned, the actual servicing stack files in v2 are identical to v1. Yet the key thing which changed with v2 is that the word “Security” was added to the beginning of the installed name for KB3177467. It appears that going forward, Windows Update will check whether the installed name for KB3177467 is “Security Update for Microsoft Windows (KB3177467)”. If the word “Security” is missing from the name, then Windows Update might not present new updates until v2 of KB3177467 is installed.

        5 users thanked author for this post.
      • #224702 Reply

        abbodi86
        AskWoody MVP

        Why would anyone hide a servicing stack critical update?

        1) KB3177467-v2 is for all, whether you have KB3177467-v1 or not
        it’s just a security important update, install it and move on 🙂

        2) KB3172605 fixes the slow WU scan permanently (at the time it was released)
        however, currenlty latest Monthly Rollup or KB3138612 have the same fix
        so, don’t install it 🙂

        SSUs are always safe, and users should not overthink about installing them or not

        KB3177467-v1 can be uninstalled if KB3177467-v2 is installed, but you will need DISM tool
        https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/cant-get-the-win7-monthly-rollup-to-install-error-0x8000fff-again-theres-a-reason-and-you-arent-gonna-like-it/#post-223880

        5 users thanked author for this post.
        • #224870 Reply

          RamRod
          AskWoody Lounger

          So as to not facilitate MS’s ability to update my machine without my approval. Each time you update the servicing stack you give away more control over your machine. There are ways to block MS reaching into your machine. Their telemetry detects that. They modify the servicing stack to do away with those blocking techniques. You lose more control over your machine.

          They are security updates alright – Security for MS.

          3 users thanked author for this post.
          • #225052 Reply

            HiFlyer
            AskWoody Lounger

            224870

            @CanadianTech.  Another plus for your zero updates strategy?

            1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #225053 Reply

              Microfix
              AskWoody MVP

              Probably referring to the second part of this post by CT: #220587

              | W10 Pro x64 | W8.1 Pro x64 | Linux x64 Hybrids | XP Pro O/L
        • #225235 Reply

          anonymous

          I have KB3172605 hidden on my Server 2008R2 and Win 7 machines.  I’m reading that I do not have to install this, and other comments are saying to install it.  I’m not clear if I need to install KB3172605 or not.

    • #224489 Reply

      anonymous

      I checked my systems and i have KB3172605 hidden, but I cant remember why I hid it. Is is important to install it. I was offered the KB 3177467 and I installed it on one computer.

      • #224508 Reply

        ashfan212
        AskWoody Lounger

        Now it appears that the KB3172605 stated in the original article was a typo and that KB2172605 was the relevant update. In reading the MS support article for KB3172605, it does appear unrelated to the SSU update KB3177467.

        • This reply was modified 2 months ago by  ashfan212.
        • #224516 Reply

          PKCano
          AskWoody MVP

          KB2172605 is not listed in the MS Catalog.

          KB3172605 is correct. It is the July 2016 Rollup (re-released in Sept 2016) and the latest version of the engine.

          2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #224519 Reply

      honx
      AskWoody Lounger

      As of Oct. 14:

      Win7 / 2008 R2: install order is important#1 KB3177467. #2 KB3172605

      Win 8.1/2012 R2: KB3173424

      if i get this right: when it comes to install october updates as soon we hit defcon 3 or higher (end october or early november i assume), then i’ll have to install kb3177467, afterwards kb3172605 (win 7) and kb 3173424 (win8.1) first, before installing any group b patches?

      • This reply was modified 2 months ago by  honx.
      • This reply was modified 2 months ago by  honx.
      • This reply was modified 2 months ago by  honx.
      • This reply was modified 2 months ago by  honx.
      • #224527 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        If KB3172605 (Win7) or KB3173424 (Win8.1) are already installed, they simply won’t re-install.

        The verdict is still out on kb3177467 -v2. It may be offered through WU after all other updates are either installed or hidden from the “important” update queue.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #224531 Reply

          honx
          AskWoody Lounger

          If KB3172605 (Win7) or KB3173424 (Win8.1) are already installed, they simply won’t re-install. The verdict is still out on kb3177467 -v2. It may be offered through WU after all other updates are either installed or hidden from the “important” update queue.

          on windows 7 the original kb3172605 from 2016 is installed since 2016. on windows 8.1 i’m not sure if kb3173424 is installed. will have to have a look next week.

        • #224555 Reply

          GoneToPlaid
          AskWoody Lounger

          KB3177467 v2 is completely safe to install. All of the actual servicing stack files within v2 are identical in every way to v1 from 2016 and which I installed on all of my Win7 computers in September 2016. All of the other files were simply modified to include the word “Security” as part of the installed name for the v2 version of KB3177467. I spent an hour yesterday evening comparing everything between the unpacked v1 and v2 versions of KB3177467, and I do mean absolutely everything — calculated MD5 checksums included.

          3 users thanked author for this post.
          • #224733 Reply

            honx
            AskWoody Lounger

            KB3177467 v2 is completely safe to install. All of the actual servicing stack files within v2 are identical in every way to v1 from 2016 and which I installed on all of my Win7 computers in September 2016. All of the other files were simply modified to include the word “Security” as part of the installed name for the v2 version of KB3177467. I spent an hour yesterday evening comparing everything between the unpacked v1 and v2 versions of KB3177467, and I do mean absolutely everything — calculated MD5 checksums included.

            in other words, if 2016 version is installed already, there is no need to install v2, as they are identical… 😀

            • #224896 Reply

              anonymous

              Earlier @honx concluded,

              in other words, if 2016 version is installed already, there is no need to install v2, as they are identical…

              This statement is true up to this point in time. Another conclusion based on Microsoft’s actions of the past is that future packages will be coded to look for the new magic number 6.1.2.5 which is the identifiable difference between between -v1’s recommended status and -v2’s important security status.

              Since the future is not known, having -v2 installed seems prudent.

              Now the latest development suggests Microsoft may change the discussion yet again. Proving the value of the MS-DEFCON rating system and the suggestion to wait for the fog to clear.

    • #224534 Reply

      anonymous

      That SSU for Windows 8.1 was installed back in April 2017.  I thought that I had missed something as I was intending to install the current .NET update and didn’t want to encounter any problems.

      Thanks Woody.

    • #224539 Reply

      byteme
      AskWoody Lounger

      I’m Win7, Group B, and FWIW, KB3172605 (“Published: 9/13/2016”) is currently listed as an *optional* (albeit “recommended”) update when I pull up Windows Update.

      I installed KB3177467 in October 2017.

      I’m inclined to leave KB3172605 alone for now unless somebody tells me that would be a mistake.

      • #224556 Reply

        GoneToPlaid
        AskWoody Lounger

        I’m Win7, Group B, and FWIW, KB3172605 (“Published: 9/13/2016”) is currently listed as an *optional* (albeit “recommended”) update when I pull up Windows Update. I installed KB3177467 in October 2017. I’m inclined to leave KB3172605 alone for now unless somebody tells me that would be a mistake.

        If your computer is not  Lenovo, install it since it does contain two important security updates. If you computer is a Lenovo, see my other long post in this thread which contains links for how to proceed.

      • #224700 Reply

        abbodi86
        AskWoody MVP

        Since Microsoft fixed the WU slow scan issue from their side, KB3138612 is enough to have working WU client

    • #224540 Reply

      anonymous

      Win 7 Group B, 3172605 installed since Sep 2016, 3177467 since Oct 2016, and since starting some 2 months after they bundled them (would that make it just Oct 2016?) I’ve just been using WU for .NET updates and I gather that if you hide a rollup the one before it will show up instead after checking again (is that right?), I’d need to hide them all one by one and keep checking for it to even be able to see whether 3177467 v2 would show up once it’s all cleared, so yeah, I’ll echo previous posters and ask for some definitive word whether this should be downloaded from catalog and installed manually even if v1 is installed (seems to have been said clearly that 3172605 shouldn’t be, and won’t even work, if it is already installed).

      — Cavalary

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #224547 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        The Servicing Stack is “exclusive” and will not show up in the “important” queue in WU until all pending updates (checked and unchecked) are removed, either installed or hidden.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #224542 Reply

      anonymous

      Funny that about KB3172605 shown in Optional to install. It shows there for me, too. I installed it back in March 2017 when I built my new computer. With KB3177467, it was one of the first things I installed to stop the silly Windows Update horribly slow update process.

      Why is KB3172605 shown as an available Optional update when it is already installed? I confirmed the latest version is identical to that version I used last year.

      • #224561 Reply

        GoneToPlaid
        AskWoody Lounger

        Funny that about KB3172605 shown in Optional to install. It shows there for me, too. I installed it back in March 2017 when I built my new computer. With KB3177467, it was one of the first things I installed to stop the silly Windows Update horribly slow update process. Why is KB3172605 shown as an available Optional update when it is already installed? I confirmed the latest version is identical to that version I used last year.

        WU occasionally has hiccups like this, in terms of what it shows that you need to install. For example, after doing a fresh install of Win7 SP1 from authentic media, Windows Update presented Win7 SP1 as an update which I needed to install! The simplest way to resolve your issue is to let Windows Update download and reinstall KB3172605. After downloading and unpacking, the installation process should be virtually instant since KB3172605 is already installed. The upshot is that this will clear KB3172605 from the list of updates which are presented in Windows Update.

        I so do need to start a thread about how to properly blow out all CBS log files in order to make Windows Update perform faster and to be more reliable in terms of what Windows Update presents.

    • #224543 Reply

      anonymous

      Goodness.  This is just silly.

      Last month, win7/win2008R2’s fix was to put in the SS patch and then everything was peachy.

      This month, if you patched early, everything seemed to be fine, but by later in the week,
      you needed the v2 of the SS patch (?) or the security update would not be shown.

      Today I started on my 2008R2 servers. Here’s what I’ve seen.

      Ran WU. I got the .NET patch, but not the security patch.

      I installed the v2 version of the SS patch and ran WU again. The security patch did not
      show up. I rebooted and ran WU again. The security patch *still* did not show up.
      I installed the .NET patch, made sure all other patches were hidden, rebooted and
      ran WU again. Then it showed up.

      This machine already has 3172605 installed.

      A bit more streamlined:

      1) Put in the SSv2 patch (may not be necessary?)
      2) Run WU, .NET shows up (and the MSRT). The “preview” patch shows up, but not the oct patch.
      3) hide the MSRT and the preview patch
      4) recheck for updates, now the october security patch shows up

      Cheers,
      Zube

    • #224580 Reply

      DrBonzo
      AskWoody Lounger

      This appears to be a classic Catch 22 for the Win 7 user who relies on Windows Update (i.e. Group A). You need the SSU in order to install the October Rollup but you won’t be offered the SSU until you either install the Rollup or hide it. If you install it, it likely will fail because you haven’t installed the SSU, but if you hide it, WU isn’t (or can’t) do what MS says it will do, which is to install the Rollup.

      Can anyone explain the way out of this? It seems to me the only logical way to proceed is to do all the installs manually from the catalog; first install the SSU v2 and then the Rollup. And to heck with WU!

      • #224583 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        If you are in Group A
        + Hide the Rollup
        + Install everything else in the “important” queue (hiding the ones you don’t want)
        + Reboot
        + Search for updates – install KB3177467 (reboot if asked)
        + Unhide the Rollup and install it.
        + Reboot

        But mostly, WAIT for the DEFCON number to go to 3 or above and Woody’s instructions in ComputerWorld!!!!

        Edit to include “important” queue.

        • This reply was modified 2 months ago by  PKCano.
        • This reply was modified 2 months ago by  PKCano.
        8 users thanked author for this post.
        • #224591 Reply

          Bob99
          AskWoody Lounger

          + Install everything else (and/or hide the ones you don’t want)

          By this, I believe @pkcano means to install and/or hide the updates listed on the “Important” page/tab of Windows Update. After all, the vast majority of us don’t install updates listed on the “Optional” page, such as Preview rollups. 🙂

          + Unhide the Rollup and install it.

          I have already installed the latest version, V2, of 3177467.  I had already installed its predecessor on January 4th of 2017. After installing V2, I wasn’t immediately presented with October’s rollup but, instead, with the September Preview rollup which was listed in the “Optional” page (tab, if you will) of Windows Update. Upon hiding that, and rechecking for updates, I was then presented with the October rollup, unchecked. I have not installed it, nor will I until AFTER we get the go-ahead later this month, provided we get it in the first place! After all, with MS’s latest shenanigans, you never know!

          • #224602 Reply

            PKCano
            AskWoody MVP

            The fact that the Rollup is unchecked is a good reason to WAIT for the DEFCON rating to change!

            1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #224651 Reply

          DrBonzo
          AskWoody Lounger

          @pkcano – My apologies for inducing you to write the set of instructions that, by now, you must surely be tired of writing.

          Personally, I’m Group B and will wait for Defcon 3 before installing any patches.

          I was trying to address the plight of the typical Win 7 home user, who I assume relies completely on Windows Update for the automatic installation of all patches. Such a user seemingly has no chance of getting the October Rollup installed because of the catch 22 logic I pointed out above. From what I’ve read WU is offering the Rollup but not the SSU, the SSU only being offered after the Rollup is installed. But the Rollup may not be installable without the SSU. (I’m assuming WU doesn’t hide updates!) Despite their exhibitions of gross incompetence, MS must surely be aware of this ironic issue. So, then the question is if they are going to fix it, and if so, how and when? I don’t believe the typical home user is up to pulling off the current workaround instructions (no offense intended towards anyone).

          • #224657 Reply

            PKCano
            AskWoody MVP

            The Rollup is now an unchecked important update, so it will not install on automatic updates (Joe User). But that may not help since it will still be in the WU important queue.

            We are just waiting to see if MS straightens things out. They could bundle it with the Rollup,  (even it’s a separate update), and set it to install first like they do in Win10.

            But that’s logical, and we are talking about Microsoft….

            1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #224673 Reply

              ashfan212
              AskWoody Lounger

              @pkcano,

              I am Windows 7 x64, Group A. I installed KB3177467 on September 12, 2018. My Installed Updates panel verifies its installation, but the text description does not indicate that it is a security update, and therefore I evidently installed KB3177467 – V1.

              That being said, when I checked for updates I received, among the various Office updates and MSRT, an unchecked instance of the October monthly rollup KB4462923. I proceeded to successfully install all checked October updates plus KB3172605 (which I had never installed and in fact was hidden prior to today’s installation). Upon reboot, KB4462923 was still showing as an unchecked update.

              Based on the commentary herein, I did not attempt to hide KB4462923 to see if WU would then offer me KB3177467 – V2. I am following the recommended advice to await further developments at this point.

              The key conclusion to be drawn is that KB4462923 is now being offered unchecked irrespective of the particular version of KB3177467 that is installed. To me, that is a positive occurrence as it appears that the particular version of KB3177467 installed has no bearing on the current update status of KB4462923 – which appears to be unchecked for all users at this time.

               

              • This reply was modified 2 months ago by  ashfan212.
            • #224678 Reply

              ashfan212
              AskWoody Lounger

              @pkcano,

              A little off topic, but I had noticed that the August, 2016 update KB3179573 was hidden and therefore never installed. Its hidden status was “recommended”. Do you have any idea regarding the necessity of this update? It is cited in the MS support pages for the monthly rollups in the list of all prior cumulative updates at the bottom of the MS support page.

              • This reply was modified 2 months ago by  ashfan212.
            • #224709 Reply

              PKCano
              AskWoody MVP

              As far as I can tell, you can leave that update hidden.

              1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #225099 Reply

          walker
          AskWoody Lounger

          @pkcano:    I am understanding that No updates at all for the month of October are to be touched.   Is this correct?  I think it is, and wouldn’t think of attempting to DL & install anything from October (plus whatever else is hiding out there just waiting for one of us to make a mistake).    Thank you, as always for reminding us all to be “super vigilant”.   🙂

          • #225103 Reply

            PKCano
            AskWoody MVP

            I am understanding that No updates at all for the month of October are to be touched. Is this correct?

            Not yet. We are still on DEFCON-1. Wait till Woody gives the go-ahead with DEFCON-3 or more.

            1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #224584 Reply

      alpha128
      AskWoody Lounger

      The get-hotfix command reports the following on my Windows 7 Pro x64 computer:

      Source        Description      HotFixID      InstalledBy          InstalledOn
      ------        -----------      --------      -----------          -----------
      <USER>-PC     Update           KB3172605     NT AUTHORITY\SYSTEM  9/17/2016 ...
      <USER>-PC     Update           KB3177467     NT AUTHORITY\SYSTEM  10/17/2016...
      

      I hid the MRT for Oct 2018 (KB890830) in Windows Update, re-checked for updates, and now the 2018-10 version of KB3177467 appears as an important checked update in Windows Update.

      GoneToPlaid wrote above that the 2018-10 version of KB3177467 is safe to install.  Do the AskWoody MVPs concur?

       

      • #224586 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        The AskWoody MVPs say “We are still at DEFCON-1” which means WAIT. Things are still not settled. Woody will give instructions along with the go-ahead at DEFCON-3 (or more).

        Why are you in such a hurry?

        6 users thanked author for this post.
        • #224598 Reply

          alpha128
          AskWoody Lounger

          The AskWoody MVPs say “We are still at DEFCON-1” which means WAIT. Things are still not settled. Woody will give instructions along with the go-ahead at DEFCON-3 (or more). Why are you in such a hurry?

          If (as reported) the files that make up the “new” KB3177467 are exactly the same as the version I already have installed, I figured I could install it and have things ready for when Woody does change the DEFCON level.

          • #224606 Reply

            PKCano
            AskWoody MVP

            The DEFCON number applies to ALL the October updates.

            • #224638 Reply

              anonymous

              It’s safe to install it; it isn’t an October update.  If you are still frightened, go download the version prior to this metadata refresh.  You can check the digital signatures and see it is old and safe.

              As long as I’m posting, 3172605 (or the preceding June 2016 rollup, which 3172605 absorbed) should absolutely already be installed on every Windows 7 machine.  That is what finally fixed the slow Windows Update scans.

            • #224663 Reply

              alpha128
              AskWoody Lounger

              The DEFCON number applies to ALL the October updates.

              OK.  Based on some of the later replies, this KB3177467 situation is more complicated than I thought.  I will do as you recommend and wait for further instructions.

               

          • #224630 Reply

            anonymous
    • #224615 Reply

      TonyC
      AskWoody Lounger

      W7x64, Group B.

      This is extraordinary! Why the sudden focus on SSUs?

      Looking back at my installation notes, I installed KB3177467(v1) when I installed my October 2016 updates on the 2 November 2016. I was offered KB3172605 by WU when I installed my July 2016 updates on the 4 August 2016, and I was offered it again when I installed my August and September 2016 updates on the 6 October 2016. As it was designated optional on both occasions, I did not install it and it is now hidden.

      With that SSU environment, I have installed all my updates right up to and including the September 2018 updates without a problem. So, what I have I missed? Or what might I miss in the future if I simply maintain that SSU environment without doing anything?

      Just to confirm, is it now the received wisdom that I should download KB3177467(v2) from the Update Catalog and install it? And then download KB3172605 from the Update Catalog and install that?

      And I’m intrigued to know why, when these updates were originally offered in the order KB3172605 (July 2016) and KB3177467 (October 2016), it is now considered necessary to install them in the reverse order?

      • #224616 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        For the first time in Sept, KB3177467 became a prereq for the Rollup. It was throwing 0x8000FFF for those who did not have it installed (probably hid it) – big hoorah. (See this thread).

        Also, many people hid it and KB3172605 as well

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #224620 Reply

          TonyC
          AskWoody Lounger

          For the first time in Sept, KB3177467 became a prereq for the Rollup.

          Yes but, as I am in Group B, I don’t install the Windows 7 rollups.

          • #224621 Reply

            PKCano
            AskWoody MVP

            If you read the MS pages for KB4457145 (2018-09 SO), it says to install the SSU before the patch.

            • #224624 Reply

              TonyC
              AskWoody Lounger

              Yes, I remember reading that. But, as I already had KB3177467 installed, I simply went ahead and installed the 2018-09 SO update, KB4457145. And I didn’t encounter an 0x8000FFFF error.

              I did not interpret what MS wrote as suggesting that I should install version 2 of KB3177467 over my existing version 1.

            • #224627 Reply

              PKCano
              AskWoody MVP

              Version 2 had not been released when that came up. The earlier version prevented the error. The files are the same. The difference is in the classification: old = optional, new = security

              2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #224687 Reply

      GoneToPlaid
      AskWoody Lounger

      I am going to say this for the final time. KB3177467 v2 is completely safe to install, and should be installed by all Win7 users in order to make sure that all future Windows Updates do properly get displayed as available updates. KB3177467 v2 does NOT install any new or changed servicing stack files which are used by Windows Update! Yet KB3177467 v2 DOES change the name of this installed SSU to include the word “Security” in front of the word “Update”, when you view the list of installed updates on your computer. And KB3177467 v2 DOES change the file version numbers of the installation files, even though and in fact, and as just mentioned, the actual installed servicing stack files are identical to what the v1 of this update installed in September of 2016!!!

      PKCano — I love you man since your wisdom most frequently hits the nail right on the head. Yet I think that you have jumped a little bit overboard in terms of this KB3177467 v2 update which is now going to be a requirement for all Win7 users, going forward.

      With all of the above said, all other updates are so totally on hold since we correctly are at Defcon 1. I so totally agree with Woody’s assessment of the lay of the land for all Windows Updates, aside from Win7 users going ahead and installing KB3177467 v2 which now and now matter what, will be a requirement for receiving all future Windows Updates. I was going to test the past two months of Win7 Security Only updates this weekend, yet I decided to hold off. And I am not touching the latest .NET rollup since we presently have a forum member who is dealing with IE issues, and who all but swears that his IE issues only showed up after installing the latest OS and .NET Rollups.

      I wholeheartedly recommend NOT installing any OS Rollup and .NET Rollup at the same time. Why? Because if you do so, it becomes much harder to figure out if one or the other actually is the cause of any update issues.

      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #224708 Reply

        TonyC
        AskWoody Lounger

        I am going to say this for the final time. KB3177467 v2 is completely safe to install, and should be installed by all Win7 users in order to make sure that all future Windows Updates do properly get displayed as available updates. …

        Yes, but where does KB3172605 figure in all this? In your post, and in PKCano’s replies to my query in this thread, the focus has been solely on KB3177467. Why, two years after it was originally released as an optional update, is it now considered desirable to install KB3172605? I can’t find any MS documentation linking KB3172605 with KB3177467, the monthly rollups, or the monthly SO updates.

        • #224711 Reply

          PKCano
          AskWoody MVP

          My suggestion with KB3172605 is this:

          When the time comes to update (DEFCON-3 or above), unhide it, then search for updates.
          If your system DOES NOT require it, it will NOT show up in the WU “important” queue.
          If your system DOES require it, it will show up as a CHECKED important update and can be installed.

          2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #224801 Reply

            TonyC
            AskWoody Lounger

            Yes, I could do as you suggest. But I would like to know why I am doing it. Where in the MS documentation does it state that KB3172605 is required to bring the WU servicing stack up to the latest level? On the other hand, if it has nothing to with the WU servicing stack, then why is it being discussed in this thread?

            • #224805 Reply

              PKCano
              AskWoody MVP

              KB3172605 has nothing to do with KB3177467 v2. It is mentioned in this thread because the quote in the original post mentioned its install order (which is still valid if you install it) and people assumed it had something to do with the SSU.

              Now, I have to ask you why you have a two year old update still hidden? Unhide it. It either disappears because it is not needed, or if it is checked important and needed it is installed.  WU knows best, and either way you have one less update hidden!

              3 users thanked author for this post.
          • #230387 Reply

            TonyC
            AskWoody Lounger

            OK, I did as you suggested today and unhid KB3172605 when I did my monthly updates. Result – it was still classified as Optional and was unticked/unchecked. In view of the fact that there is mixed opinion in this thread as to whether it should be installed or not, and accepting that it has nothing to do with the SSU KB3177467, I decided not to install it and it is now hidden again.

            I just wish somebody could explain why it was included in the list of SSUs in Woody’s post that started this thread – that is, in the list that Karl_F1_Fan sent to Woody. It has caused nothing but confusion in my view.

        • #224984 Reply

          GoneToPlaid
          AskWoody Lounger

          KB3172605, when it was originally released, was avoided by many since it was quickly discovered that it broke Intel Bluetooth drivers. I hid it at the time and forgot about it. Later, it turned out that it apparently broke the Bluetooth drivers only on Lenovo computers which had some sort of related scheduled task which would run. Lenovo’s recommended solution was to uninstall their Bluetooth drivers, install KB3177467 and KB3172605, and then reinstall their Bluetooth drivers.

          It is kind of a good thing that KB3172605 was mentioned along with KB3177467 in the old installation notes since a lot of people hid KB3177467 back in 2016. KB3172605 does contain two somewhat important security fixes. If you don’t have KB3172605 installed, I do recommend installing it, but only if you already have either version of KB3177467 installed.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #224712 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        PKCano — I love you man since your wisdom most frequently hits the nail right on the head. Yet I think that you have jumped a little bit overboard in terms of this KB3177467 v2 update which is now going to be a requirement for all Win7 users, going forward.

        I don’t see any problem waiting to install KB 3177467 v2 until the DEFCON number is 3 or above. I have offered instructions for both Group A and Group B as to how to get the SSU first (now or later, it is the same).

        My recommendation to wait (beside the DEFCON status) is in the hope that MS will come up with a way for Windows Update to automatically handle the sequence of installation so that the SSU precedes the Rollup without all the finagling (like it does in Win10). Perhaps that is one reason why the Rollup is now unchecked and/or not offered.

        If that doesn’t happen, heaven help Joe User whose WU is on automatic and who has no clue what’s going on!

        4 users thanked author for this post.
        • #224723 Reply

          Speccy
          AskWoody Lounger

          PKCano is absolutely right: help on this website should be clear, simple and useful to any Joe User out there. Rush is often a bad adviser.

          More experienced users who are minimally able to figure out what’s going may, of course, provide further help or feedback: IMHO (and GoneToPlaid and others) it’s okay to go ahead and install KB3177467 (and probably KB890830, too) but readers should (please) keep in mind I’m not a MVP (just another dude here trying to help others) and (quoting PKCano’s wise words) MVPs say “We are still at DEFCON-1” which means WAIT.

          3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #224707 Reply

      Freeco
      AskWoody Lounger

      And if you still have Win2012 servers (non-R2), like we do, this is it’s latest SSU: KB3173426

    • #224727 Reply

      anonymous

      What about the install order for windows 7, if #2 is installed first and then #1? Do I need to uninstall #2? Some help will be appreciated.

      Thanks.

      • #224732 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        If you install through Windows Update, the system will handle the installation order, so you don’t have to worry about it. Microsoft is still working on the patches, so WAIT until the DEFCON number is 3 or above.

        There is no rush to install yet, and more information may be available with time.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #224734 Reply

      anonymous

      What about kb3150515. I am being offered it after installing the rollup, kb3177467 v2 and all other Oct updates for win 7.  It’s rated as important but I’m not sure what it is or if I should install it.

      • #224741 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        KB2952664, the MS telemetry patch, used to be a standalone update. As of the October Rollup, the telemetry patch has been included as part of the update. So, installing 2018-10 Rollup also in effect installs KB2952664.

        KB3150513 is related to KB2952664 and telemetry. It will only show up in the Windows Update important queue if the latter is installed. My recommendation is to hide KB3150513. But there is now no way to uninstall KB2952664 as it is part of the Rollup.

        Edit: to correct KB number 3150515 -> 3150513

        • This reply was modified 2 months ago by  PKCano.
        4 users thanked author for this post.
        • #224988 Reply

          GoneToPlaid
          AskWoody Lounger

          KB2952664, the MS telemetry patch, used to be a standalone update. As of the October Rollup, the telemetry patch has been included as part of the update. So, installing 2018-10 Rollup also in effect installs KB2952664. KB3150515 is related to KB2952664 and telemetry. It will only show up in the Windows Update important queue if the latter is installed. My recommendation is to hide KB3150515. But there is now no way to uninstall KB2952664 as it is part of the Rollup.

          Hello PKCano,

          I think you meant KB3150513, as this is the additional telemetry update which can only install if KB2952664 is installed. Obviously if KB3150513 is presented in Windows Update, then this is a red flag that KB2952664 (or multiple versions thereof) are installed on the user’s computer.

          Since I am on Group B, I have never installed any of the Monthly Rollups. Instead I have only installed the monthly Security-only updates in which all included updates actually install under their own KB numbers, instead of as the KB number for the monthly Security-only update. I decided to download and unpack the September and October Monthly Rollups in order to see what actually is in them. Wow. To my surprise, the Monthly Rollups literally install whatever they install — all under the Monthly Rollup’s KB number. I had incorrectly assumed that the Monthly Rollups, like the monthly Security-only updates, would install the “rolled up” updates under individual KB numbers, like the monthly Security-only updates do. This is a complete surprise to me since I don’t recall this ever being clearly documented on the forum.

          Again, wow. With the Monthly Rollups, one literally is “all in” as they say in poker. I also can’t believe the unpacked sizes of the Monthly Rollups. For example, unpacking the October 2018 Monthly Rollup results in over 14,000 files and folders totaling approximately 1.4GB! Am I missing something, or am I correct with regards to all of the above?

          Best regards,

          –GTP

           

          • #225078 Reply

            PKCano
            AskWoody MVP

            Since I am on Group B, I have never installed any of the Monthly Rollups. Instead I have only installed the monthly Security-only updates in which all included updates actually install under their own KB numbers, instead of as the KB number for the monthly Security-only update.

            I had incorrectly assumed that the Monthly Rollups, like the monthly Security-only updates, would install the “rolled up” updates under individual KB numbers, like the monthly Security-only updates do.

            I did Group B updates on several machines for a while. I remember having one update listed in installed updates for each month’s Security-only patch, one “wad” for all the bundled fixes.

            Has MS changed the Security-only Updates now so that they install as individual patches? That would certainly be convenient, so you could uninstall an individual offending patch without having to install the whole SO update. I don’t remember this being discussed before. If so, it would be worth switching back to Group B.

          • #225104 Reply

            Microfix
            AskWoody MVP

            Correct me if I’m wrong GTP but my interpretation of:

            Instead I have only installed the monthly Security-only updates in which all included updates actually install under their own KB numbers, instead of as the KB number for the monthly Security-only update.

            Is, that within the Security Only monthly update, once extracted, are individual kb’s relative to the SO update and fixes? lazy MS patch coding..Smaller kb’s within a larger SO Kb installer that can be cherry picked?
            How exactly did you ‘extract’ these?
            I’m intrigued..thanks.

            | W10 Pro x64 | W8.1 Pro x64 | Linux x64 Hybrids | XP Pro O/L
    • #224771 Reply

      anonymous

      Win 7 Group A    Lots of confusion out here. I have KB 3177467 v1 installed. Sept updates went on okay. Do I need v2 before doing monthly rollup for Oct. when they get it straightened out, or am I good to go with v1.

      • #224775 Reply

        Microfix
        AskWoody MVP

        Remember that old saying: Good things come to those who wait!
        We are at MS-DEFCON 1, it’s best not to install any October Patches and the v1/ v2 SSU confusion will be clearer once we hit MS-DEFCON 3 or more. The patches aren’t going to disappear 🙂

        | W10 Pro x64 | W8.1 Pro x64 | Linux x64 Hybrids | XP Pro O/L
        2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #224779 Reply

      ashfan212
      AskWoody Lounger

      I had both KB3138612 and KB3172605 hidden as of yesterday. I never experienced slow WU once Microsoft fixed the problem on their end. As it was recommended to install KB3172605 yesterday, I did so successfully.

      Now today there is mention of KB3138612. Its status is “important” as a hidden update, even after having installed KB3172605 yesterday. My understanding is that KB3172605 updates a critical .dll file with a later version than KB3138612. Also, KB3172605 was issued and reissued after KB3138612 back in 2016.

      Therefore, I would imagine that KB3138612 should not be installed at this time. I would also assume that the later version of the .dll created by KB3172605 would be preserved even if KB3138612 were installed, but I wouldn’t want to risk it – even if KB3138612 addresses other issues that KB3172605 does not.

      My bottom line question is that I hope that it was safe to have installed KB3172605 yesterday given that I had never installed either KB3172605 or KB3138612. It sounds as though KB3172605 superseded KB3138612 in some sense.

      • #224788 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        Unhide KB3138612. Check for updates.
        If it is NOT required by the system, it will simply not show up.
        If it IS required, and is checked in the “important” updates, let it install.

        Windows Update knows more than you do. It will do the right thing and not overwrite something that is newer.

        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #224804 Reply

          ashfan212
          AskWoody Lounger

          That makes sense. When I unhid KB3172605 yesterday and checked for updates, KB3172605 was offered as “optional”. I decided to install it anyway based on Woody’s article advising to have it installed. Upon installation, its status upgraded to “recommended”.

          I won’t install KB3138612 after I unhide it unless WU indicates that the update is “important” upon checking for updates, given that KB3172605 was just installed.

        • #224806 Reply

          abbodi86
          AskWoody MVP

          No really, KB3138612 is completely superseded by KB3172605 or Monthly Rollups
          but due the mess in Win7’s WU between metadata supersedence, CBS supersedence, most updates prior April 2016 being dual-branches (GDR/LDR), updates post April 2016 are all LDR.. due all that they cannot supersede important update easily 🙂

          Windows 8.1 equivalent KB3138615 was superseded

          2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #224907 Reply

            ashfan212
            AskWoody Lounger

            @abbodi86,

            Do you think my installation of KB3172605 did any harm, or is it likely that it left files unchanged that exhibited more recent versions that occurred from the installation of more recent monthly rollups?

            I am trying to discern your comment that “everything that was included in KB3172605 was also included in the monthly rollups”.

            I would imagine then that the installation of KB3172605 did no harm and may have done literally nothing. I would be hesitant to uninstall it.

            • #225068 Reply

              abbodi86
              AskWoody MVP

              No

              i ment the WU client fixes, not everything
              KB3172605 contain other fixes and improvements, it’s not superseded update yet

              4 users thanked author for this post.
    • #224811 Reply

      Cybertooth
      AskWoody Lounger

      My head’s about to explode: hide this, unhide that, install Y before X but only if conditions 2b or 5.c(3) apply to your PC during a full moon, etc. etc. etc.

      I know that this is a developing situation, so instead of doing anything I am waiting for MS-Defcon 3. However…

      …When that time comes, is it too optimistic to hope that Topic 2000003 will provide clear and specific instructions regarding these various SSU’s for Group B? This is the go-to page for Group B patching, and I’m hoping that it (and not some other random page) will include all the steps that are needed, and in the correct order, for all of the patches that have come out since September’s Patch Tuesday.

       

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #224814 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        AKB200003 is about telemetry. The .NET Security-only patches don’t belong there nor do the SSUs.  At this point we know the SSU needs to be installed first before the update (either Rollup or SO). But I believe that however MS is going to handle this situation so it doesn’t create problems/errors for everyone (Joe User especially) is still up in the air.

        Please be patient.

        3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #224842 Reply

        anonymous

        Cybertooth, I agree with you that the SO updates do need to be added to that site. I have asked this in the past but it won’t happen.

        My friends and I have our own list of SO updates for Group B. We discuss among ourselves and eventually post the update method for Group B that we used and had success or mention any issues we encountered here at Woody’s.

        Others here, I think Elly does the same and that is very helpful to others.

        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #224927 Reply

          Cybertooth
          AskWoody Lounger

          @anonymous 224842, what I’m thinking is that it would be mighty helpful to have ALL of the instructions for ALL of the updates located in ONE consistent place month after month, rather than having to look for this bunch of patches “here” and that bunch “over there”. It’s becoming an unwieldy process, trying to keep track of where the instructions are for each subset of patches. It would simplify things considerably if they were all posted to the same topic every month that we could keep in a single bookmark.

          Microsoft has made such a mess of things that even Group A “do whatever you want to me” patching is no picnic any more. We are (or, at least, I am) approaching the limits of comprehensibility and practicality.

           

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #224941 Reply

            anonymous

            Cybertooth again I agree with you. In the past getting a windows update was easy. Today with all the problems and half tested updates, it is a pain. I feel sorry for the Windows 10 user that has the updates on and can not turn it off. I would suggest getting windows 10 PRO or Enterprise. The poor HOME users have the least of any options.

            My friends and I are all getting tired of this worry of what to do for our windows 7 Group B machines. I finally told one friend that “I didn’t care what was being said, I was waiting for Woody, then I would start to look at what to do”. I tell them to wait for Woody to change the defcon and read what he says.

            It would be nice to have a single place that has all the Group B updates to load for that month. I would think that if Microsoft has a Security Only patch available that all those Security Only patches for that month could be listed.

            I do remember Group A people saying how easy it was, and now they are wailing too.

            No I will not go to Windows 10 and Canadian Tech’s approach of not installing patches but do have backups may pan out in the future. Especially when EOL happens to Windows 7.

            3 users thanked author for this post.
          • #224980 Reply

            DrBonzo
            AskWoody Lounger

            @cybertooth and various @anonymous – It’s really the nature of the beast that makes having a single “tell-all” link difficult to come to fruition.

            However, in some sense there’s not really that much to keep track of at least for a single operating system.

            For what it’s worth, here’s what I do. Every patch Tuesday Woody posts a summary of the updates that have been issued. For example here’s October’s: https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/the-most-recent-servicing-stack-updates/#post-224941. There are several useful links that Woody usually includes such as the MS master list, the Catalog list and Martin Brinkman’s summary. I go through these various links and cull out the updates I need for my Win 7 system. I end up with a list for IE11, Rollups and Security Only patches for Win 7 and .NET, Office 2010, etc. Of course you seem to be aware of PKCano’s Group B list, and Susan Bradley posts the Master Patch List. (I haven’t intentionally left anyone’s list out; if I have, no offense intended.)

            It seems to always take a few weeks for things to shake out. There are always bad patches, workarounds, temporary solutions, etc. It’s up to me to decide how much attention to pay to all the posts here. Sometimes I read every post relevant to my machines, and sometimes I get so disgusted I blow it off until Woody posts a Defcon3 or higher. Regardless of what I’m in the mood for, though, by the time Defcon 3 comes around Woody will have pretty specific instructions for ALL the updates in a Computerworld article, which article will usually contain links back to AskWoody about various special or out of the ordinary situations or simply if you wan/need more info. Fairly often, by the time Defcon 3 comes around, MS will have gotten it’s act together so that no special instructions are needed; some times, of course, MS doesn’t get it’s act together and such is life with Windows.

            The whole thing is often frustrating, seems to take forever, is a black hole for time and mental energy, etc. But, for Windows, it’s just the way it is. Seemingly the only way out is to change to a non-Windows operating system.

            While I’m at it, I’d like to put in a plug for the MVPs. They do a fantastic job of sorting through all the confetti, seem to be almost infinitely patient with folks like me who don’t have their techie chops, and do it all for zero remuneration.

            7 users thanked author for this post.
            • #225100 Reply

              anonymous

              DrBonzo, thank you. I read your posts and like them.
              What you said is the exact way I and others here feel about windows updates.
              Yes, we currently do look at Woody’s articles and references. We do get frustrated with the “black hole” of data. We do throw our hands up and stop, then wait for Woody to change the defcon number and give his suggestions.

              This is why I have asked and agree with cybertooth that a single website of the suggested installs for all SOs for Group B should be available. Even if that site is updated a day before the next patch Tuesday. Of all the very competent MVPs here it seems possible.

              As it stands now, we that are tech savvy can look at the Microsoft Catalog, find the Security Only updates offered for that month, and after Woody says proceed, we do.

              I and my friends have been doing this examination and selective installs for years, and more so since the new method of CU and SO updates appeared way back in October 2016.

              Thanks to all.

              1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #224883 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        The SSUs are available through Windows Update. The SOs and IE11 CUs listed in AKB2000003 are not available through Windows Update. That’s why the latter (related to telemetry) are there. If you can get the patch through Windows Update, you don’t need a special link (beside the fact the SSUs are not related to telemetry).

        4 users thanked author for this post.
    • #224890 Reply

      anonymous

      Win7 X64 group B.

      I had KB3172605 hidden because it was originally listed as optional and unchecked. Restored it from the hidden list and scanned again, it’s still listed as optional and unchecked in Windows Update. I’m going to follow the long standing instructions in these parts not to install optional unchecked patches and hide it again. Once the defcon level changes hopefully there will be some clarity on installing this patch.

    • #224902 Reply

      Demeter
      AskWoody Lounger

      I installed KB317746 Oct. 1/18 as I encountered the 0x8000FFF error when trying to install Sept. patches. It was never previously installed. After installation, Sept. patches successfully installed. However, going into my installed updates list, KB3172605 was installed back in Oct. 2016. Do I now have v1 or v2 of KB317746? Just asking. Given the current state of affairs, I’m not installing anything until DEFCON 3. Win 7 Pro x64 Grp. A, i7-core Haswell

      • #224903 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        KB317746 v6 was released 10/10/2018. You have v1 it would appear if you installed 10/1/2018.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #224989 Reply

        GoneToPlaid
        AskWoody Lounger

        I installed KB317746 Oct. 1/18 as I encountered the 0x8000FFF error when trying to install Sept. patches. It was never previously installed. After installation, Sept. patches successfully installed. However, going into my installed updates list, KB3172605 was installed back in Oct. 2016. Do I now have v1 or v2 of KB317746? Just asking. Given the current state of affairs, I’m not installing anything until DEFCON 3. Win 7 Pro x64 Grp. A, i7-core Haswell

        Search for KB3177467 in “View installed updates” under the Control Panel’s “Programs and Features”. In the search result, if the description for KB3177467 starts with the word “Security” then you have v2 installed. If on the other hand the description starts with the word “Update” then you have v1 installed.

        • #225054 Reply

          Demeter
          AskWoody Lounger

          The description starts with “Update”. I also made a typo, I should have written KB3177467. I’ve been dropping the “7” off of the end. So whenever we get to DEFCON 3, should I install v2 before trying Oct. patches??? Where do I find v2 of KB3277467? Win 7 Pro x64 SP1 Grp. A i-7core Haswell

          • #225060 Reply

            PKCano
            AskWoody MVP

            The SSU KB3177467 won’t show up in the “important” update queue until all the pending updates are either installed or hidden. It is “exclusive” and has to be installed alone.

            5 users thanked author for this post.
    • #225851 Reply

      GoneToPlaid
      AskWoody Lounger

      Since I am on Group B, I have never installed any of the Monthly Rollups. Instead I have only installed the monthly Security-only updates in which all included updates actually install under their own KB numbers, instead of as the KB number for the monthly Security-only update.

      I had incorrectly assumed that the Monthly Rollups, like the monthly Security-only updates, would install the “rolled up” updates under individual KB numbers, like the monthly Security-only updates do.

      I did Group B updates on several machines for a while. I remember having one update listed in installed updates for each month’s Security-only patch, one “wad” for all the bundled fixes. Has MS changed the Security-only Updates now so that they install as individual patches? That would certainly be convenient, so you could uninstall an individual offending patch without having to install the whole SO update. I don’t remember this being discussed before. If so, it would be worth switching back to Group B.

      My bad. I was mistaken. Yet it would have been nice if this was the case in terms of the Security Only updates versus the Monthly Rollups.

    • #227957 Reply

      SteveTree
      AskWoody Lounger

      I think you meant KB3150513, as this is the additional telemetry update which can only install if KB2952664 is installed. Obviously if KB3150513 is presented in Windows Update, then this is a red flag that KB2952664 (or multiple versions thereof) are installed on the user’s computer.

      In my case Win 7 is offering KB3150513 but  KB2952664 is definitely not on my system. Make that ‘was’ offering. while  group A,  I hide compatibility or telemetry updates.

      Group A (but Telemetry disabled Tasks and Registry)
      Win 7 64 Pro desktop
      Win 10 32 Home portable

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #227962 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        KB2952664 (or its functionality) has been incorporated into the Rollups, beginning with with the 2018-09 Preview Rollup and continuing with KB4462923 2018-10 Monthly Rollup. If you have installed either of those updates, you will see KB3150513 in the important update queue because you have essentially installed KB2952664 (although it is no longer listed as a separate update).

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #228027 Reply

          GoneToPlaid
          AskWoody Lounger

          KB2952664 (or its functionality) has been incorporated into the Rollups, beginning with with the 2018-09 Preview Rollup and continuing with KB4462923 2018-10 Monthly Rollup. If you have installed either of those updates, you will see KB3150513 in the important update queue because you have essentially installed KB2952664 (although it is no longer listed as a separate update).

          In plain English, the upshot is that Microsoft appears to be doubling down on installing telemetry on all Win7 computers. What the heck? Can Microsoft still not figure out why so many Win7 users refuse to upgrade to Win10? Can Microsoft not figure out why so many Win7 users do not wish to have everything which they do on their computers, computers which are these users’ personal property, being tracked by Microsoft?

          KB3150513 dates back to 2016-05-04 or thereabouts. The upshot is that KB3150513 installs additional telemetry on top of the telemetry which is installed by KB2952664. The additional riot is that the original MS description for KB3150513 is that it is the “Latest compatibility definition update for Windows”. Do any of you see any mention in this update description that it installs telemetry? Were any of you, when installing KB3150513, presented with a EULA which mentioned that this update would install telemetry? Of course not, since Microsoft’s lawyers have decided that if you choose to install any Windows Update, then you have inherently chosen to do so — regardless of any Microsoft obligation to present any kind of legal stuff. This is the legal loophole in action.

          KB3150513 can only be installed if KB2952664 is installed, whether or not KB2952664 is listed as an installed update! This is the big change which PKCano has been trying to tell all of us — that KB2952664, as of the October Rollup, is silently bundled within the October Rollup and is no longer offered as a separate update package!

          PKCano, thank you from the bottom of my heart for figuring this out, as this is a game changer for all who are on Group A yet who also have avoided installing KB2952664 AKA the “Infamous Telemetry Update.” By the looks of it, this might be a game changer going forward.

          And perhaps I might suggest that the October Rollup is now unchecked, and not because of any potential issues with the V2 of KB3177467. I instead suggest that perhaps Microsoft’s attorneys have realized that silently bundling KB2952664 into the October Rollup was a really bad thing and that this is potentially now a legal can of worms? I potentially suggest this line of reasoning since Microsoft must adhere to regulations and settlement agreements which are applicable not only within the US, but also in the EU and possibly elsewhere.

           

           

          1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #228028 Reply

        GoneToPlaid
        AskWoody Lounger

        I think you meant KB3150513, as this is the additional telemetry update which can only install if KB2952664 is installed. Obviously if KB3150513 is presented in Windows Update, then this is a red flag that KB2952664 (or multiple versions thereof) are installed on the user’s computer.

        In my case Win 7 is offering KB3150513 but KB2952664 is definitely not on my system. Make that ‘was’ offering. while group A, I hide compatibility or telemetry updates.

        Let me guess. You installed the October Rollup which silently includes KB2952664, yet KB2952664 will not show up as an installed update.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #228050 Reply

          SteveTree
          AskWoody Lounger

          Let me guess. You installed the October Rollup which silently includes , yet KB2952664 will not show up as an installed update.

          Away from that machine for a while so the checking will have to wait. However I was  rushed with my update processes this month. By now I thought they would have given up on KB2952664.  It seems they finally snuck it past me!

          Group A (but Telemetry disabled Tasks and Registry)
          Win 7 64 Pro desktop
          Win 10 32 Home portable

          1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #228045 Reply

      HiFlyer
      AskWoody Lounger

      @stevetree, @pkcano, @gonetoplaid. @AskWoody et al

      Thank you all. Non-tech users like me would be nothing more than lambs led to M$ slaughter without your knowledge and willingness to share it.

      That’s why I’m here and why I read AW every day.

      HF

      1 user thanked author for this post.

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