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  • The Next Windows

    Home Forums AskWoody blog The Next Windows

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      • #2369635
        Will Fastie
        Manager

        MICROSOFT NEWS By Will Fastie What is it? We don’t really know. By now, the news is out that Microsoft will host a livestream event on Thursday, June
        [See the full post at: The Next Windows]

        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2369646
        Simon_Weel
        AskWoody Plus

        The trend since Apple released the iPhone in 2007 has been away from..

        Ouch. Saw the same thing on National Geographic. Apple being the inventor of the smart phone. We all know they didn’t. And it was RIM with it’s Blackberry that made the smart phone popular.

      • #2369705
        Will Fastie
        Manager

        Apple being the inventor of the smart phone.

        That’s not what I said. I’ve never thought Apple invented the smartphone. (Arguably, it was Palm.)

        And it was RIM with it’s Blackberry that made the smart phone popular.

        The Blackberry, which was subscription-based, was primarily of interest to business customers, not the general public. The keyboard made the physical phone popular, but what drove adoption was the services provided by the subscription, including security. The peak was 2013, with 85 million subscribers.

        By 2011, Apple had sold 146 million and by 2013, a total of 421 million units. Everyone else was left in the dust. That is popularity.

         

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2369818
        OscarCP
        AskWoody Plus

        There are two interesting ways that Windows may go: continue running on Intel CISC chips or move to a potentially faster ARM-RISC type. The second would be really interesting, as Apple has recently shown, so I’ll dwell on that here.

        The transition in the case of Apple has been made in such a way that those already with Intel CPU Macs can continue using them without problems. In fact, Apple is still selling new models of Intel Macs. Big Sur, the newest version of the operating system of Macs, macOS (previously called OS X), can be used in computers with either Intel CISC or Apple’s new custom ARM-RISC M1 CPUs. (In the case of Apple, the current M1 chip includes the CPU, the GPU as well as a neural network engine).

        Application software for Macs now should be preferably “Universal”, meaning it can run on Intel and M1 chips (actually the software is two versions, one for Intel the other for the new Apple chip, downloaded together, with the appropriate one being installed). And for those applications that are only for Intel Macs, a system-calls translation program called Rosetta 2 will make it possible to run these on M1 Macs (known as “Silicon”, by the way) at some cost in speed. It should be quite possible to preinstall something like that on a new ARM Windows.

        If following Apple’s example, the designed compatibility with both Intel and ARM chips should allow OEM makers of Windows PCs to transition gradually to ARM soon, or continue with Intel for as long as they find it necessary.

        On the other hand, Windows 11 might be only for Intel CPUs or it may be two versions, one for Intel the other for ARM.

        Or Windows 11 might be just a new version of Intel Windows with some tweaks to make it safer to use and with some new features. I can’t think of any new feature that would make a real difference to me, the existing ones are pretty much all I need (although they could use some improvements), so I cannot go here into what these features might be desirable in a new version of Windows. What one can expect, as with any really new version of any OS, is lots and lots of bugs.

        Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group W (ex B) & macOS Mojave + Linux (Mint)

        • #2369859
          Ascaris
          AskWoody MVP

          ARM Windows already exists, along with an emulator for x86 software (not sure if that includes 64-bit stuff though). Microsoft does not have the same ability to push the hardware market into a new platform as Apple, though. Apple makes the hardware and the software, while MS mainly makes the software (the Surface line being a small part of the whole Windows device market).

          I can think of some features I would like in Windows 11, though, if it is going to be called that. Full update control (a la Windows 8.1/7) and LTS releases for all customers would be a great start. Not holding my breath on that, though!

          Group "L" (KDE Neon Linux 5.22.1 User Edition)

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #2369877
            EricB
            AskWoody Plus

            I can think of some features I would like in Windows 11, though, if it is going to be called that. Full update control (a la Windows 8.1/7) and LTS releases for all customers would be a great start.

            Of course that’s not going to happen because it would be a tacit admission that Windows As A Service is a mistake!

            1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #2370001
              AlexEiffel
              AskWoody_MVP

              Isn’t having Windows 11 a tacit admission that WaaS was a mistake?

              If Windows 10 was the last version of Windows you love so much, they wouldn’t need to do that.

              That doesn’t mean that if they do announce a Windows 11, it won’t be lipstick on a pig (Sun Valley on Windows 10 and a few new marketing things to call it different).

              They might make it look new but keep all the things that make Windows 10 not the great version they tried to tell people it is and continue with the WaaS nonsense. Anyway, I have a hard time talking about Windows 10 because there is no such thing as Windows 10. There are many Windows 10 and many have different annoyances plus some good things. When I think about Windows 10, I don’t know exactly what I am thinking about.

              Will they do something useful with the bits of the X version and its use of containers to improve security? Not sure about that.

              Wasn’t there a statement about how it would be the biggest change since… that’s a bold statement and I don’t see what they could announce that would live up to this. I lost faith in Nadella a long time ago. He is good at inspiring, but he delivers something else when it comes to Windows.

              It does somehow excite me a bit, oddly, as if I still had some hope that his company could go back a bit to what was better days without necessarily admitting it. I probably shouldn’t feel that way.

              The one thing that is very interesting is the fact that a lot more laptops and desktops has been sold with the pandemic, which just shows what is needed for a lot of work vs what we get sold as the future with consumer gadgets and phones which have their use, but not as desktop replacement for the most part.

              Everything else that is mentioned by Will in his great piece about this maybe non event doesn’t look exciting to me or pointing in a great direction : multi-device AI collaboration multi-edge, same old preaching about cloudy things. Will they try to sell us a more locked down secure version with access to everything online? They don’t seem ready for that and every time they do something that resemble this, it fails because it ignores Windows legacy and why it is still so prevalent. So, like Will, I won’t speculate too much, probably setting myself up for disappointment.

               

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      • #2369866
        OscarCP
        AskWoody Plus

        Ascaris: “Microsoft does not have the same ability to push the hardware market into a new platform as Apple, though.

        I think that MS does not need to push OEMs to adopt ARM CPUs, by creating, same as Apple did, two versions of, in this case, Windows 11: one for Intel CISC chips, one for ARM-like RISK chips. This way, OEM makers of PCs can design and build their machines for either CPU. The advantages of a RISC CPU (lower use of energy and hence a longer running time on a single battery charge, greater computing speed) will naturally move the OEMs to consider seriously building their machines with RISC CPUs. MS just has to sit back and wait, without pushing anyone to do anything.

        And yes, in my wish list would be a much longer time between major versions of the software, at least three years. Fewer and generally better patches. An uncluttered GUI. And the opt-in sharing of user’s data with MS.

        Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group W (ex B) & macOS Mojave + Linux (Mint)

      • #2369878
        Speccy
        AskWoody Lounger

        Maybe unrelated, but the official teaser (at 11 a.m. Eastern Time) refers to a live stream event and, accordingly to the Microsoft Reactor website at that very same moment, on a different time zone (4 p.m. Central European) a live stream about AI and Accessibility is scheduled for Stockholm.

        Quoting:

        What is this session about?
        Microsoft has infused AI into Office 365 applications to support accessibility. Whether it’s Speech and Language AI providing live subtitles in PowerPoint, or Vision AI generating alt text for images, everyone can benefit from accessible features.


        Who is it aimed at?
        All developers who are interested in building in accessibility to their apps using Azure Cognitive Services.


        Why should I attend?
        To learn how to design, develop, debug, and deploy an app on Azure to demonstrate the power of AI for Accessibility. For more on this series, visit https://aka.ms/HigherEdSeriesPg


        Speaker info:
        Stephen Howell | Academic Program Manager
        Stephen has 22 years’ experience in software engineering, lecturing, program management, and the education industry. He is currently the Academic Program Manager for Microsoft Ireland.
        In this role he advocates for STEM skills at K12, computer science skills to higher and further education customers, and digital transformation to government educational agencies.


        Stephen is an advocate for STE(A)M, Autism & ADHD awareness, Gender Diversity in Tech, and increasing accessibility in technology for all. He is the Diversity and Inclusion Council Accessibility Pillar Lead for Microsoft Ireland (from July 2019).


        He is in final year of a PhD in SMARTLab, University College Dublin on Inclusive Design and Creative Technology Innovation, where his research focuses on Computational Thinking and Kinesthetic Learning.

      • #2370369
        Tom-R
        AskWoody Plus

        WARNING:  Rant ahead.

        Unless Windows 11 (or whatever MS plans to call it) returns control of the Windows Updating process to the user, I won’t be very impressed or interested.  Every Windows user (yes, even the plain old home end user) should have the option of full control over what system components or drivers get updated, and be able to fully choose when — or even if — the updating takes place.  More importantly, the user should be able to decide exactly when an update requiring a reboot should get installed.  If an update requires a reboot, Microsoft should never force that update onto a user’s system without prior permission.

        And it shouldn’t be necessary to pay a Windows Pro upgrade “tax” in order to get that functionality.  It’s a PC — Personal Computer — and I’m really tired of Microsoft trying to push updates onto my systems, regardless of whether or not they’re wanted.  Unless MS addresses the updating issue, this next new release is all just lipstick on a pig.

        So, realistically, I already know that MS isn’t going to fix the updating issue in this next release — or in any that follow either (Windows 12?, Windows 13?).  So I’ll probably be forced eventually into moving to Linux just to keep control over my own systems.  In the meantime, I’m glad that we have WUMgr available; so at least I’ve got some measure of control.  My only worry there is what happens when MS decides to thwart even those third-party utilities; so that there’s no longer any way for end users to control updates.  I guess that will be the breaking point that finally forces me to make the jump to Linux.

        OK.  End rant.  Here’s the TL;DR version.  Just return Windows Update control to the user in this next release.  OK, Microsoft?

        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2370380
        Alex5723
        AskWoody Plus

        Unless Windows 11 (or whatever MS plans to call it) returns control of the Windows Updating process to the user,

        This will never happen. Microsoft will never surrender its grip on Windows Updates/Users.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2370392
        doriel
        AskWoody Lounger

        I really doubt, that we can get stable and 100% reliable system in todays world of weekly based updates. And by the way I thought that W10 is the last and final Windows for everything (I do not remember, if I read that somewhere or if its just my assumption). Same with Office 365, will there be Office 366 next year?

        If they announce new Windows on 24th June, then my opinion is, that all the effort they made to run Windows 10 as good as its running now, will be flushed to the toilet. At least I hope, that Microsoft wont charge people for beta testing its fragile service anymore. This attitude should be disciplined and fined at court. Same with the game of Star Citizen, for example.

        Or at least tell people true, Microsoft. That you need them. And give them your “service” for free if they choose to join Insider, Beta, Dev or Release preview channel or whatever.

        Dell Latitude E6530, Intel Core i5 @ 2.6 GHz, 4GB RAM, W10 20H2 Enterprise

        HAL3000, AMD Athlon 200GE @ 3,4 GHz, 8GB RAM, Fedora 29

        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #2370504
          PaulK
          AskWoody Lounger

          Same with Office 365, will there be Office 366 next year?

          No. It will be released 29 Feb 2024, and updated 31 Dec 2024.

        • #2370640
          Speccy
          AskWoody Lounger

          It was. But because AI and ML were already being developed for a few years and coming in full-mode, despite some cautionary tales on the road Redmond took Cortana to the next level and that’s the whole point of what Windows turned out to be nowadays: a nurturing environment for the rise of an AI aiming to “function in an open-ended continuous learning process, being able to ethically apply common sense and infer causal reasoning”.

          We’re not there yet but that’s really the big picture here (a promising or scary one, in many ways, depending on how you look at and think about it) and something to be aware of that we’ll all have to deal with, one way or the other, in the upcoming years.

          P.S. – To the forum moderators’ censoring fast fingers out there, sorry for the apparently off-topic reply (?) but it really is an honest attempt to contribute to the thread, in finding an answer to the initial question [The Next windows: What is it? We don’t really know].

          • #2370745
            Paul T
            AskWoody MVP

            Off-topic is one way to describe your post.  🙂

            cheers, Paul

            1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2370493
        Alex5723
        AskWoody Plus

        “Important”

        Microsoft will continue to support at least one Windows 10 Semi-Annual Channel until October 14, 2025.

        Windows 10 Home and Pro Start Date : 07/29/2015 Retirement Date: 10/14/2025

      • #2371847
        rc primak
        AskWoody_MVP

        There is no Windows 11. There will not be a Windows 11. This event will not shake up the world. There will be a continuation of Windows as we know it, with only incremental changes for the consumer side. Business and Cloud development may be quite another matter.

        If we believed all the hype and speculation of the past few years, Windows would be on Windows 16 by now and all desktops would be in the Cloud and everything would be by subscription only. And Unicorns would be appearing on every street corner.

        Don’t drink the Kool-Aid.

        And don’t panic-buy SSDs.

        -- rc primak

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #2371888
          Tom-R
          AskWoody Plus

          … Windows would be on Windows 16 by now and all desktops would be in the Cloud and everything would be by subscription only.

          I don’t know about the version numbering; but anyone who doesn’t think that MS is slowly (but inexorably) pushing users towards a subscription software model isn’t paying attention.  That’s not just Kool-Aid.  And it’s not just coincidental re-branding that MS decided to rename “Office 365” to “Microsoft 365”.

          No, it won’t happen overnight.  And yes, they’re currently focused on businesses and enterprises.  But I’m absolutely convinced that Windows will eventually be a fully 100% software subscription service — for all users.  It may be several more years before we see the unicorns on every street corner (i.e., Windows subscriptions on every computer); but rest assured, that is Microsoft’s ultimate goal.

          2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #2371901
            PKCano
            Manager

            About the time win7/8.1 expire – that’s only 1 1/2 years away.
            Already, all the current versions have the same base and updates now that 1909 is gone.

            2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #2371917
          b
          AskWoody MVP

          Windows 10 Pro version 21H1 build 19043.1052 + Microsoft 365 (group ASAP)

      • #2371940
        Alex5723
        AskWoody Plus

        About the time win7/8.1 expire – that’s only 1 1/2 years away

        I think on 2025 when Windows 10 expire.

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