• The right to repair

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    #2456838

    ISSUE 19.26 • 2022-06-27 Look for our special issue on July 4, 2022! LEGAL BRIEF By Max Stul Oppenheimer, Esq. Purchasing a product gives you broad ri
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    • #2456857

      The right to repair doesn’t cover ‘void of warranty’..

      Apple for example :

      Independent Repair Providers have access to genuine Apple parts and repair resources. Independent Repair Providers do not provide repairs covered by Apple’s warranty or AppleCare plans* but may offer their own repair warranty.

      Self Service Repair is intended for individuals with the knowledge and experience to repair electronic devices. If you are experienced with the complexities of repairing electronic devices, Self Service Repair provides you with access to genuine Apple parts, tools, and repair manuals to perform your own out-of-warranty* repair.

      *Unless required by law, repairs made by Independent Repair Providers or through Self Service Repair are not backed by Apple. Damage caused by repairs performed outside of Apple or the Apple Authorized Service Provider network is not covered by Apple’s Limited Warranty or an AppleCare plan

      .

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    • #2456872

      Massachusetts has a similar Right To Repair Law, passed recently. The details of how this will work are still being worked out. But for all types of phones and for other Apple products, independent repair shops and kiosks are flourishing in the Bay State. There are also implications for independent auto service shops. Tesla however, seems capable of retaining its iron grip on repairs.

      -- rc primak

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      • #2456936

        Yes but maybe to their determent, keeping the number of repair capable shops low will mean that when a repair IS needed it will be harder for any one not in a metro area with a shop.

        🍻

        Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.
    • #2456963

      The only things that hinder my ability to fix things is the lack of schematics and info., or the ability to get the parts I need.  My wife’s favorite 1970 GE “Solid State” AM table radio needs its volume control replaced.  This would not be anything I couldn’t handle except that I can’t find an exact replacement for it.  I can still fix it, but I’d have to put a non-original volume control in another spot which would spoil the appearance of the radio.

      We're getting Sticker Shock everywhere now, not just car dealers.

    • #2456979

      Thanks, Prof. Oppenheimer, for this interesting and detailed analysis of the sometimes labyrinthine legal aspects of the “right to repair” question.

      This really begs some questions to be asked to clarify some important points further.

      For example this one:

      In 1961, the Supreme Court followed the same logic to vindicate the rights of owners of convertible automobiles to replace worn fabric tops rather than having to buy a new car when the top wore out. In the words of the 1961 Supreme Court:

      Mere replacement of individual unpatented parts, one at a time, whether of the same part repeatedly or different parts successively, is no more than the lawful right of the owner to repair his property.

      But if, as it happens to be actually the case at the moment, because I need a new battery for my Mac laptop, I can only use an internal battery made by Apple and specifically made for this laptop. Or else connect the computer to an external battery.
      So, if I wanted to replace the battery myself, would I, according to the wording of this law, have to engage first in (and win) a lawsuit with Apple to do it?

      (Well this is just an example to illustrate the general idea, if not a good example in absolute terms, because of what Alex has clarified is now Apple’s policy, further up in this thread here:  #2456857 .)

      And this one:

      But in the meantime, if New York (which is by all accounts a pretty big market) succeeds in requiring any company selling products in New York to provide repair parts and manuals to New York residents, those parts and manuals will quickly find their way to California, and there will be a rapid increase in repair facilities located in New York but serving clumsy smartphone owners from across the country.” (Emphasis, mine.)

      Isn’t this “interstate commerce” and, therefore, subject to Federal Government laws, not to state laws?

      Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

      MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
      Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
      macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

    • #2456995

      Interesting, it seems (unless I am mistaken) auto makers are not making written service manuals any more. Or PDFs of the material. Just very expensive systems to present the material. Lets see what happens. I like having a manual even if I don’t use it much.

      🍻

      Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.
      • #2457006

        wavy: “it seems (unless I am mistaken) auto makers are not making written service manuals any more.”

        Have you asked about this to a good car mechanic who owns a car-repairs garage? If there are manuals to be had that you might need to have, whether in booklet form, or online as a PDF, or in some other downloadable form, the mechanic would know for sure.

        Unless you are one such car mechanic, in which case what you wrote might be all there is to be said on this issue.

        Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

        MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
        Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
        macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

        • #2457022

          Car manufactures have changed over the years

          My 85 Toyota van had a number ( 3 or 4) manuals. bought from them. they were decent and usually accurate.

          My 09 Subaru you had to buy access for a certain amount of time to download the info. I never did. The normal stuff  I could handle with out any particular knowledge, otherwise it was to the shop. I finally found an outside manual,Haynes( the only one left). Covered a run of Foresters and Legacy, Chock full of info but so far the 2 things I looked for was wrong. Its not easy to repair anything anymore.

    • #2457025

      the inserted info doesn’t disappear when inputting my info

      • #2457043

        Not sure what you mean?

        Susan Bradley Patch Lady

        • #2457117

          I don’t believe Anonymous/Guest users can add attachments.

        • #2457283

          Where it says name, on the blank there was info also under mail.. Usually when one clicks on the line, the info disapears. this doesn’t happen here. So when i went input my email, hit began with anon.

        • #2457311

          I think there is some web browser autofill going on?

          Susan Bradley Patch Lady

    • #2457197

      finally found an outside manual,Haynes

      I had a problem with the Haynes manual I bought for my 96 Maxima that cost me a bunch of time. The one I got off the internet on a CD was likely illegal but much much better in some regards, schematics and such. For my Accord I found a PDF of the manual online much more complete but assumes interface equipment only a shop would have paid for.

      🍻

      Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.
    • #2457264

      This issue and corresponding actions to resolve it in favor of the owners include cars and car manuals, but are much bigger than that:

      New York has approved a law to affirm the right of its citizens to repair electronics, and other states are moving similar bills trough their legislatures or have actually approved them and have them now in their books.

      Also, and more importantly, at the Federal government level, because it would make a patchwork of state laws unnecessary in many cases:

      https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-lawmakers-introduce-right-repair-bills-spur-competition-2022-02-03/

      And where things stand now on this US Congress bill:

      https://www.smartindustry.com/blog/smart-industry-connect/new-fair-repair-bill-takes-right-to-repair-movement-national/

      At the state level, for example:

      https://marylandpirg.org/feature/mdp/right-repair

      Excerpt:

      We are building on a successful idea, with a broad coalition that appeals to lawmakers on both sides of the aisle. Maryland’s bill has bi-partisan support and is backed by the Attorney General, Maryland Farm Bureau, consumer rights advocates, environmentalists, cyber security experts, and farmers.

      More and more, people are experiencing this problem firsthand, especially as our smartphones struggle to last two years, and are so difficult to repair. Together with farmers—who can’t fix farm equipment without the manufacturers doing the repairs—repair businesses, and consumers who care about waste, we are working to pass Right to Repair legislation in states across the country.

      Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

      MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
      Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
      macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

    • #2457313

      This discussion about autofill, browser issues, etc. isn’t it best pursued elsewhere? This thread is about the “right to repair.” A really important and timely issue.

      Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

      MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
      Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
      macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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