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  • The Windows 10 “End of Service” myth – and creepy upgrades

    Home Forums AskWoody blog The Windows 10 “End of Service” myth – and creepy upgrades

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      • #2283717 Reply
        woody
        Da Boss

        Win10 version 1809 hits End of Service on November 10. Why are so many 1809 machines getting pushed onto version 2004 — a version that’s notoriously
        [See the full post at: The Windows 10 “End of Service” myth – and creepy upgrades]

        6 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2283753 Reply
        RangerVic
        AskWoody Lounger

        The update crashes one of our applications.

        I roll Windows back. Checking the box that it causes problems for me.

        Right after the roll back, Windows starts to download the update again and sets the system to do the update on the next restart.

        Thanks Microsoft!

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #2283775 Reply
          woody
          Da Boss

          You may be able to block it, if you’re using 1809 Pro or Enterprise.

          Look for the defer feature updates setting.

          • #2283781 Reply
            RangerVic
            AskWoody Lounger

            Hi Woody,

            Thanks for all your hard work.

            I have “Windows Update for Business” -> “Select when Preview Builds and Feature Updates are Received”  Enabled for our domain.

            I am going to review in case there is an option I also need on.
            Otherwise, MS is ignoring this setting.

            Thanks !!

            Forgot to Add Win 10 Pro on Domain joined computers.

             

            • This reply was modified 1 week, 4 days ago by RangerVic. Reason: Additional information
            1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2283758 Reply
        WildBill
        AskWoody Plus

        Obviously still on Windows 8.1; wanting to upgrade to some Win10 version, hopefully one that is somewhat stable when I do. As for 2004 (2005?! it was delivered on May Patch Tuesday), my goal is to wait until September 2020… November 2020 at the latest. Which may be Version 2010 or 2011, according to the Microsoft Azure schedule.

        Ya know, the longer M$ takes to try & stabilize Windows 10… the more I’m looking at converting to a Linux distro in 2022. COVID-19 or not, vaccine or not, effective treatment or not… at some point, Microsoft gets the figurative Middle Finger from me (probably literal as well). As for Office, I’m still on 2013 Click-to-Run, which goes EOL on April 2023. If I move to Win10 whatever, should I upgrade to Office 2016 (if available; EOL is Oct. 2025), Office 2019, or Finally subscribe to Office… uhh, Microsoft 365? If I convert to Linux, fork M$ Office… it’s LibreOffice for me!

        Windows 8.1, 64-bit, back in Group A... & leaning toward Windows 10 V2004. As long as it's a Lot Less Buggy!
        Wild Bill Rides Again...

        • This reply was modified 1 week, 4 days ago by WildBill.
        • #2283762 Reply
          Paul T
          AskWoody MVP

          As W8.1 is supported until January 2023 I’d stick with it until you replace your hardware – it’s what I’m doing.

          cheers, Paul

          5 users thanked author for this post.
        • #2283776 Reply
          Coldheart9020
          AskWoody Lounger

          I have used Libre Office exclusively for about 10 years now, all the while on a Windows OS, and have never had any issues with it. 🙂

          2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #2283848 Reply
          anonymous
          Guest

          Do not wait in hope for Microsoft to stabilize Windows 10, for most of us it will not be stable without many adjustments.

          Cheers to the LibreOffice team for a cross platform office suite. 🙂

      • #2283783 Reply
        Berserker79
        AskWoody Lounger

        So far my version 1809 Windows 10 Home machine has not been subject to any attempted push to 2004, but as I mentioned elsewhere since June Patch Tuesday there were two attempts to push me on 1909.

        Out of curiosity, I used the command lines that abbodi86 shared and checked with PowerShell whether 2004 shows up as an optional update. Fortunately, 2004 did not show up as an optional update either.

        My plan is to stick with 1809 until I’m close to EOL (which to me means around October, not 4 months earlier according to Microsoft’s idea of “close to EOL”) and upgrade to 1909 using the ISO woody suggested to squirrel away a while back (unless a new 1909 ISO is made available before then which includes a fix for the “disappearing profile” bug and no other detrimental bugs…).

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #2283820 Reply
          Alex5723
          AskWoody Plus

          Woody recommended moving to 1909 which is very stable.

          • #2284480 Reply
            Berserker79
            AskWoody Lounger

            Thanks Alex. I’ve read that woody recommended the move to 1909, but so far I don’t think 1909 offers anything that I really need, plus I’m a bit worried about the “disappearing profile bug” issue. I’ll probably move to 1909 later this year, when EOL for 1809 is really close.

            • #2284492 Reply
              Alex5723
              AskWoody Plus

              I had no ‘profile disappearance’ upgrading from 1803 – 1809 – 1903 – 1909.

              1 user thanked author for this post.
              • #2284728 Reply
                Berserker79
                AskWoody Lounger

                Thanks for letting me know. Out of curiosity, did you upgrade from one version to the other(s) through Windows Update or did you upgrade using an ISO?

              • #2284731 Reply
                Alex5723
                AskWoody Plus

                I upgraded using Windows Update.
                I downloaded the ISO just in case.

                1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2283789 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        Windows 10 2004 is so “poorly built” that not even today received patch C, D.

        Microsoft seems to know what it did so it doesn’t release this patch today.

        • #2283797 Reply
          Microfix
          AskWoody MVP

          I don’t think W10 is poorly built, W10 is built upon previous strong incarnations of Windows that were IMO good. I mean there was/is nothing wrong with Win2k/XP/7/8.1 (deliberately missed vista and 8) but, I still prefer any of the aforementioned over W10 any days of the week/month/ year.
          The fundamental issue with W10 seems to be NPI (new product introduction) which hasn’t been tested properly for the public release, there lays the crux of the problem, people that play with insider versions rather than actually contribute to make things better that makes the public, more of a beta tester than they should be.
          MSFT AI and Telemetry, is a modern day occurrance with W10, try to stop it, and it can potentially be your own downfall, especially when a ‘creature update’ lands.
          There’s just too many variables involved as this OS goes forward.

          That’s why I gave up on it

          | Win8.1 Pro x64 | Linux Hybrids x86/x64 | Win7 Pro x86/x64 Offline |
      • #2283796 Reply
        geekdom
        AskWoody Plus

        What is the purpose in upgrading everyone to the same version?

        G{ot backup} TestBeta
        offline▸ Win10Pro 1909.18363.959 x64 i3-3220 RAM8GB HDD Firefox79.0 Windows{Image/Defender/Firewall}
        online▸ Win10Pro 1909.18363.959 x64 i5-9400 RAM16GB HDD Firefox80.0b4 Windows{Image/Defender/Firewall}
        • #2283823 Reply
          Alex5723
          AskWoody Plus

          If every one is on the same version it is easier for Microsoft (or any other OS/software company) to maintain updates, security fixes, bug fixes…

          • This reply was modified 1 week, 4 days ago by Alex5723.
          • #2284484 Reply
            doriel
            AskWoody Lounger

            Yeah, thats why they introduce new build (version) every 6 months.

            Dell Latitude E6530, Intel Core i5 @ 2.6 GHz, 4GB RAM, W10 1809 Enterprise

            HAL3000, AMD Athlon 200GE @ 3,4 GHz, 8GB RAM, Fedora 29

            • #2284490 Reply
              Alex5723
              AskWoody Plus

              That is why you should help Microsoft and install the new Windows 10 version as soon as it is available /s

              1 user thanked author for this post.
              • #2284506 Reply
                doriel
                AskWoody Lounger

                That is why you should help Microsoft

                And I do. I do everything as they want me to do. I even troubleshoot computers that cannot upgrade for some reason and I repair them and upgrade them. Its their own mess when they came with this ridiculous update version cadence. And even if we pay them, we still should help Microsoft? Nah. I apologize, I know I sound like a little child, but this really fills me with sadness.

                Dell Latitude E6530, Intel Core i5 @ 2.6 GHz, 4GB RAM, W10 1809 Enterprise

                HAL3000, AMD Athlon 200GE @ 3,4 GHz, 8GB RAM, Fedora 29

                1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2283833 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        1809 is an LTSC version, to be supported until 2028 – therefore it would be minimal to no extra cost/effort for MS to provide security only patches to other 1809 editions until the fight against the pandemic is finally over. They just don’t do it, that’s what Woody’s post is all about.

        4 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2283850 Reply
        kdock
        AskWoody Plus

        I suspect the purpose of moving people in large waves well before the EOL date is so MSFT support can handle all the millions of wailing customer support calls in an orderly fashion. And the final product can be continual tweaks depending on what causes the most pain. I still get the message that my laptop isn’t quite ready.  I think that really means that since I’ve chewed the … face off more than one unsuspecting support rep when things have gone awry, that they just aren’t ready for me.

      • #2284205 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        Our most important PC in our laboratory – the one that operates three pieces of important equipments – always refused to update from win 10 1809 to versions 1903 or 1909; we could try to update but installation just failed each time – without Win10 giving any reason for this failure. Since this machine is equipped with a serial and parallel port as well as a firewire card we were very concerned what we could do at the “end of service” for 1809 in November 2020. Replacing the machine was not a real option due to the ahrdware requirements.

        Then came end of July 2020 and hooray Windows Update actually was actually installing Win10 2004. This was at least some progress for this machine. Installation seemed to work perfectly but after several reboots (and about 2 hours later) the machine crashed with a message that there was an error/mismatch in the registry (which message was not really helpful). Upon a hard reboot the PC reverted to the former Vs. 1809 but immediately began with the same update procedure. Again – after 2 hours of installing and several reboots – the same result. We repeatead this game the next day without any success (or the same “success” as before). In this case we could have endlessly played this game if we had not found the culprit: The PC is six years old and was upgraded from Win7 to Win10. There were some legacy programs left on the machine (that were never used) that apparently were incompatible with Win10; upon deinstallation of these old apps and removing some superflous devives via device manager the update process finally was successful.

        We could hae saved a lot of time and headaches if Windows had told us that there were some incompatibility issues that prevents the update

         

        Fred

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #2284485 Reply
          doriel
          AskWoody Lounger

          If this is your critical system and you work with serial and parallel ports, I would be affraid to upgrade anyway. Backup. backup,…

          For example AutoCAD LT 2011 stops working on 1809 and since we moved from 1709 to 1809 this was really bad surprise. What else will stop work when upgraded to 1909? I will never know since I will try it.

          Maybe you should move to LSTB which should stay the same until jan 2024 or even jan 2029.

          We could hae saved a lot of time and headaches if Windows had told us that there were some incompatibility issues that prevents the update

          Even more great would be if windows told you what the real cause of problem is and stoped writing vague messages like 0x8004172c or “Windows cannot be installed”. It would be great if you can see real progress instead of blue screen and percentage. Then you can actually see at which place it crashed. But thats against security maybe? But it would be nice.

          Dell Latitude E6530, Intel Core i5 @ 2.6 GHz, 4GB RAM, W10 1809 Enterprise

          HAL3000, AMD Athlon 200GE @ 3,4 GHz, 8GB RAM, Fedora 29

      • #2284511 Reply
        geekdom
        AskWoody Plus

        There’s beta-test and then there’s blind-sided. While I will beta-test, I prefer not to be blind-sided.

        Microsoft updating practice needs to include:

        • Prior notice of updates.
        • An easy and effective means of blocking updates.

        As it stands with current Microsoft practice, everyday is beta-test day with the burden of update failure on everyone who uses Microsoft product.

        G{ot backup} TestBeta
        offline▸ Win10Pro 1909.18363.959 x64 i3-3220 RAM8GB HDD Firefox79.0 Windows{Image/Defender/Firewall}
        online▸ Win10Pro 1909.18363.959 x64 i5-9400 RAM16GB HDD Firefox80.0b4 Windows{Image/Defender/Firewall}
        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2284512 Reply
        Paul T
        AskWoody MVP

        If this is your critical system and you work with serial and parallel ports, I would be affraid to upgrade anyway

        I would already have restricted that machine’s ability to upgrade and limited / removed internet access. Critical machines need to be protected from all things.

        cheers, Paul

      • #2284610 Reply
        wavy
        AskWoody Plus

        Now maybe the time to try the software on a new machine just to make sure it will be possible when the old one fails. Although serial ports on the rear of a computer are rarish these days mother boards often have a header on them that can be connected to serial port socket. PCIe cards are available with parallel ports (and serial). As Paul says backup and image always.

        🍻

        Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.
      • #2284611 Reply
        PKCano
        Da Boss

        There are also adapters available. I frequently use a USB to Serial DB9 RS232 adapter.

      • #2285545 Reply
        fl
        AskWoody Plus

        I’ve been running Win10 Pro x64 version 1809 on my 2012 Mac Mini (version 6.2) thanks to Boot Camp.

        I’m considering a move to version 1909. Do I need to upgrade to 1902 first, or can I move directly to 1909?

        I have the 1909 ISO from January 2020 – version 18363.592 – is there a newer one? LInk?

        Mac Mini v. 6.2 (2012) with Win10 Pro 64 bit v. 1809
        MacBook Pro v. 3.1 (2007) with Win7 32 bit - Group B Updater

        • #2285548 Reply
          PKCano
          Da Boss

          You can go directly from 1809 to 1909, no need for 1903 first.
          The ISO you have, to my knowledge is the latest.
          Mount the ISO in your Windows installation – right click, open with Explorer.
          Run setup.exe
          Don’t forget to dismount (eject) the ISO after the installation is complete.

      • #2285554 Reply
        fl
        AskWoody Plus

        Thanks very much for the info, PKCano.

        In the past, I used Rufus to create a bootable USB stick from which I did the upgrade from Win7 (originally installed in 2015) to Win10 1803 last year, and again when I went from 1803 to 1809. Rufus asks for the partitioning scheme already in use on the target partition, and I entered GPT both times.

        I’ve since learned that with Macs made before late 2013 (like mine), Boot Camp used a hybrid GPT/MBR partitioning scheme when it created the partition for Windows, and indeed when I look at Disk Utilities in the MacOS it’s shown as GPT, whereas when I look at the Windows Partition Management Control Panel, it says it’s MBR. I’ve never had problems with any of the software I run on this system, and I can boot back and forth between the MacOS and Windows without issue, so apparently it seems to be okay.

        Does running the ISO directly from the Windows C:\ partition as you suggested simply use the partitioning scheme that’s already in place? Or should I continue using Rufus, and if so, should I configure it for MBR or GPT?

        Thanks for any help you can provide.

        Mac Mini v. 6.2 (2012) with Win10 Pro 64 bit v. 1809
        MacBook Pro v. 3.1 (2007) with Win7 32 bit - Group B Updater

      • #2285716 Reply
        Paul T
        AskWoody MVP

        Running the ISO from Windows doesn’t change the disk structures or boot arrangement, it only updates the Windows files. This is the same on all hardware.

        cheers, Paul

        1 user thanked author for this post.
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