• Thunderbird Junk Mail Control

    • This topic has 23 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 1 month ago.
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    #2449317

    I am “replying” to a post of mine because I can’t for the life of me figure out how to create a new post on the problem with Thunder bird email program. Perhaps some kind moderator will move this for me.

    I’ve been using Tbird for years. My main concern now is that the program pays absolutely no attention to my efforts to control what is called “junk” mail or “spam” mail.  First: what’s the difference? I have some boxes labeled junk and others labeled spam, all by the same program. Why?  And why does the program move messages to junk or spam? It keeps doing this and I haven’t a clue why. I receive many daily messages from news centers, etc., which Tbird moves directly to junk even though I have hundreds of times marked the as not junk!

    [Moderator edit] The New Topic button is at the top of the forum – in blue

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    • #2449329

      TB creates a junk folder for each email service you use and it varies depending on whether you use IMAP or POP3.

      TB moves email into the junk folder based on its own rules and the email headers added by the mail service.
      Check the mail headers (view the email > more > view source) of stuff that shouldn’t be in junk. What do they say? (example below)

      If you want a full analysis, drop the headers into https://mailheader.org/

      Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; dkim=temperror (no key for signature) header.i=@wcamfowk.us header.s=smtp header.b=yg6YGAIB; spf=pass (google.com: domain of xxxxx@charikon.shop designates 146.255.85.134 as permitted sender)

      cheers, Paul

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2450458

        Yes. Message header.

         

        OK, I placed a message from a local news service for analysis. TB had moved it into a “spam” folder after I had repeatedly (40 X or more) marked similar messages as “not junk” (what’s his “spam” and junk” bizz! – TBird,  make up your mind).  The analysis shows message clear of any spam.

        I can’t get TBird to stop this process, no matter what I do!

        Feeling very frustrated.

        -Peter
        <h3>Spam Scoring Details</h3>
        <table id=”1″ class=”TransferData” border=”1″ rules=”all” cellspacing=”0″>
        <tbody align=”left”>
        <tr>
        <th scope=”col”>Score</th>
        <th scope=”col”>Spam Description</th>
        </tr>
        </tbody>
        </table>
         
        <table id=”1″ class=”TransferData” border=”1″ rules=”all” cellspacing=”0″>
        <tbody align=”left”>
        <tr>
        <th scope=”col”>Total Score (Max:5)</th>
        <th scope=”col”>Spamassassin prediction</th>
        </tr>
        <tr>
        <td width=”57″>0</td>
        <td width=”276″>No Spam = Good!</td>
        </tr>
        </tbody>
        </table>

        • #2450465

          TB does not have to agree with Spam Assassin – clearly in this case. Without knowing what is in your email headers it is hard to judge.

          Did the header have an X-Spam-score? If so, what is it?

          cheers, Paul

        • #2450489

          Already deleted that message.  Will send another ASAP.

           

           

        • #2450557
          Return-Path: 0101018124dcdd24-56d7d5ba-2dd4-4336-b443-6e212997d575-000000@us-west-2.amazonses.com
          Delivered-To: xxxxx@bluegrasswest.com
          X-FDA: 79533558090.27.D9A345B
          Received: from a27-189.smtp-out.us-west-2.amazonses.com (a27-189.smtp-out.us-west-2.amazonses.com [54.240.27.189])
          	by imf16.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7975318007F
          	for <xxxxx@BlueGrassWest.com>; Thu,  2 Jun 2022 14:40:47 +0000 (UTC)
          DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple;
          	s=37vch7vpdefzn3yl53j5jtm7k7je2o2e; d=edhat.com; t=1654180863;
          	h=Date:To:From:Subject:Message-ID:Sender:List-Unsubscribe:MIME-Version:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type;
          	bh=iB7gkCI/uMlHzD6eeoaTrQ2O/lODfnvbLDs0hp8biiU=;
          	b=UuWbPl4P/YmiokyBM6ODBpd0lZJSggKsrjGe+2lfP5NCW/+c8EnP45TM+YX5Zu1n
          	R/tyqHVehRgwQ/Qjkjbwyxf/9im8igeW3de1hLfRPbWeJIxRaSNE+w/xsJv4Uwd0QOT
          	2gNcgWfhzYQhzmVdUoi1VdXjJw1lZzi30Aq4tnog=
          DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple;
          	s=gdwg2y3kokkkj5a55z2ilkup5wp5hhxx; d=amazonses.com; t=1654180863;
          	h=Date:To:From:Subject:Message-ID:Sender:List-Unsubscribe:MIME-Version:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:Feedback-ID;
          	bh=iB7gkCI/uMlHzD6eeoaTrQ2O/lODfnvbLDs0hp8biiU=;
          	b=Qag6dEJLvrqQT6TIPEHmDqqYcBwmC2E85Evizr1PCGr69GUYSGOA8tXZf9QWUf6D
          	1/zLbOocgpLONyZ3QtG+GG6eYqHdTGTPqMxpS7AGcTyeDD9tGEPO8a16kdCvZ9yC1oZ
          	1kV0qPHsYKyvBSMP+y/vgMZo5O6ikn/2850MN0Wk=
          Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2022 14:41:03 +0000
          To: undisclosed-recipients:;
          From: Edhat <info@edhat.com>
          Subject: Edhat Daily Newsletter 06-02-2022 06-02-2022
          Message-ID: <0101018124dcdd24-56d7d5ba-2dd4-4336-b443-6e212997d575-000000@us-west-2.amazonses.com>
          X-Priority: 3
          X-Mailer: PHPMailer 5.1 (phpmailer.sourceforge.net)
          Sender: info@edhat.com
          List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.edhat.com/newsletter/confirm/remove/efe074b87b9506t210>
          Precedence: bulk
          MIME-Version: 1.0
          Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8Bit
          Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
          Feedback-ID: 1.us-west-2.wiLhPYP3eCTXUfvnyp1ITuPKAcjBIvaOo3ZUic25Nl0=:AmazonSES
          X-SES-Outgoing: 2022.06.02-54.240.27.189
          X-Rspam-User: 
          X-Rspamd-Server: rspam02
          X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 7975318007F
          X-Stat-Signature: ewepgj1kowxs5pih6hwzdnbbsupyuw9g
          Authentication-Results: imf16.hostedemail.com;
          	dkim=pass header.d=edhat.com header.s=37vch7vpdefzn3yl53j5jtm7k7je2o2e header.b=UuWbPl4P;
          	dkim=pass header.d=amazonses.com header.s=gdwg2y3kokkkj5a55z2ilkup5wp5hhxx header.b=Qag6dEJL;
          	dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=edhat.com;
          	spf=pass (imf16.hostedemail.com: domain of 0101018124dcdd24-56d7d5ba-2dd4-4336-b443-6e212997d575-000000@us-west-2.amazonses.com designates 54.240.27.189 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=0101018124dcdd24-56d7d5ba-2dd4-4336-b443-6e212997d575-000000@us-west-2.amazonses.com
          X-Spam-Status: Yes, score=17.89
          X-HE-Tag: 1654180847-270040
          

          [Moderator edit] removed email addresses and trimmed

        • #2450633

          As you can see the header X-Spam-Status: Yes, score=17.89 effectively means this email is spammy according to one of the intermediary mail servers.
          Thunderbird then correctly drops it in the spam bucket for you to peruse.

          The 3 email checks, dkim, dmarc and spf, all pass, so I don’t know why the spam score is so high. Maybe it’s the “undisclosed-recipients” – the emailer should send the mail addressed to you, not undisclosed.
          Can you ask someone else on the email list to check their headers and spam score?

          cheers, Paul

      • #2450644

        “TB creates a junk folder for each email service you use and it varies depending on whether you use IMAP or POP3.

        TB moves email into the junk folder based on its own rules and the email headers added by the mail service.”

        —————-

        Paul, I believe this is at least part of my problem. I have four email accounts, all “handled” or “mishandled” by TBird. One IMAP, the rest POP3. Spam/Junk email controls seem indiscriminately applied throughout the entire mess, leaving me confused and helpless. Perhaps I should just accept “Junk” as my main input folder and leave it at that!

        I appreciate your efforts and those of your fellow contributors. I may just junk all my TBird accounts and begin sending letters again by US Mail.

         

        <sigh>

         

         

    • #2449334

      [Moderator edit] The New Topic button is at the top of the forum – in blue

      I do not see it in the page with these comments present. All I can find is a reply. I want to create a topic.

      Thank you.

      • #2449337

        Top menubar on the main Page.
        Choose “Forums”
        Scroll down.
        Click on the Forum that matches your Topic subject.
        At the top there is a “New Topic” button – click on it.

    • #2450609

      TB had moved it into a “spam” folder after I had repeatedly (40 X or more) marked similar messages as “not junk” (what’s his “spam” and junk” bizz!

      You should also mark as ‘not spam’

      Junk Email Vs. Spam — What’s the Difference Between Them?

      Traditionally, junk mail referred to unsolicited advertisements that people would find in their mailboxes. With the introduction of emails and the Internet, junk mail became the term used to define emails that are automatically thrown into your Junk Mail section since they are marked as advertisements. Companies that send out junk emails are well aware of that and offer you a chance to unsubscribe from their mailing list.

      Spam is different. It is defined as irrelevant or inappropriate messages sent to a large number of people. Spam emails come in different forms and are sent through different media. They have the purpose of tricking you into revealing your personal or financial information…

      • #2450627

        Alex: Maybe this is because I have an older version of TB, or because it is one for macOS, but there is nowhere in it a button, or something else, to mark an email as “spam”, or a “spam” folder where it may end up. Only “junk” marking and a folder by the same name as destination.

        Ex Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7) since mid-2020. Now: running macOS Big Sur 11.6 & sometimes, Linux (Mint)

        MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
        Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
        macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV and Malwarebytes for Macs.

        • #2450690

          Mozilla Thunderbird Has Both Junk and Spam or Bulk Mail Folders

          Mozilla Thunderbird is one of the better free email clients available with built-in spam filters. We’ve seen times where an additional folder, called spam mysteriously appears. In this guide, we look at the reasons and solutions…

        • #2450713

          Alex: Thanks for the clarification. But in case that, for being telegraphic, it is misunderstood by some:

          (1) Mozilla TB is either NOT one of the best free email clients, or if it is, then the rest are a disaster. That leading statement in the article Alex has given the URL link to in his reply seems to be repeating the usual mantra, probably created by the TB people praising themselves with their own PR.

          (2) My TB email client does not have a “Spam” folder. Or anywhere a button or whatever one can use to label email as “Spam.” Just “Junk”, as shown  in the screen shot posted in the article.

          (3) I am using TB because the much superior macOS client “Mail” went flaky when I moved to macOS Big Sur from Mojave, and is still like that now with Monterey. And also for lack of a better idea.  And also because I am lazy. And also because I hate attempting such optional bureaucratic hassles as opening a new email account with a different client (with a side serving of danger of loosing one’s saved emails, as it has happened in a few documented cases) .
          TB has the one advantage for me, and that is that with it I can receive messages with a POP3 server, to keep them in my computer without further ado, something not available at AOL so far with my old account using Mail, that is setup (per AOL’s request) to use IMAP, that does not allow one to save them in one’s PC.
          AOL used to belong to Verizon, that first gave it what was until then its email business (and my old account with it), and later sold it to a finance company.

          (4) The above is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So help me AOL.

          Ex Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7) since mid-2020. Now: running macOS Big Sur 11.6 & sometimes, Linux (Mint)

          MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
          Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
          macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV and Malwarebytes for Macs.

        • #2450844

          Considering how important email is to me, it occurs to me that I should stop trying to “fix” a broken piece of free software. I should look for a good email client for Windows and pay for it!

           

          Any suggestions?

           

      • #2450643

        With my present version of TBird, 91.9.1, there seems no way to mark items as spam. Junk only.

        And marking a message as “Not junk” does absolutely no good re. future messages from the same sender. They are all moved to Junk.

         

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #2450861

      Considering how important email is to me, it occurs to me that I should stop trying to “fix” a broken piece of free software. I should look for a good email client for Windows and pay for it!

       

      Any suggestions?

       

      I’m very satisfied with eM Client and happily recommend it.

      It’s a full-featured program and they offer a free version that can handle up to (I think) two different email accounts.

       

      • #2450862

        Cybertooth, I have looked just now and looked again in the eM Web site you gave the link to in your comment, and I might have missed it, but cannot find where it says what kind of incoming mail servers they have at eM: IMAP or POP3.

        IMAP means that one’s incoming emails are saved in the (eM) servers, while POP3 means it is saved in one’s computer. To me, at least, this makes a big difference.

        Ex Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7) since mid-2020. Now: running macOS Big Sur 11.6 & sometimes, Linux (Mint)

        MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
        Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
        macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV and Malwarebytes for Macs.

    • #2450878

      From the eM Client site: eM Client is the best equipped email client on the market, thanks to its support of virtually all conceivable email technologies (POP3, SMTP, IMAP, Exchange, Office365).  Link     Settings Link

      Win 10 home - 21H2
      Attitude is a choice...Choose wisely

      4 users thanked author for this post.
    • #2450885

      Thanks to all for this information.

       

      I’ll check it out.  Have a fine Sunday!

       

      -Peter

       

      • #2450888

        And thanks to you, WSpfeldman, for starting this thread, that has brought some interesting facts to light I did not know about.

        Ex Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7) since mid-2020. Now: running macOS Big Sur 11.6 & sometimes, Linux (Mint)

        MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
        Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
        macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV and Malwarebytes for Macs.

        • #2450932

          Manual Solution to Export Thunderbird to eM Client

          “eM Client is simple-to-use Windows-based email application for email data management. Follow the given steps to transfer Thunderbird emails to eM Client application directly…”

          1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #2450981

          Thank you for this!

          It’s going to take me a while to absorb. I’m still struggling with IMAP vs POP3 concepts. The conversion project is bringing to light a bunch of misconceptions on my part which is not making things any easier.

          Where’s MCI Mail when you need it?

          -Peter

        • #2450980

          I feel we’re all in this together!

          Feeling a bit overwhelmed by the em program at the moment. This is obviously not a 5-minute transition from Thunderbird!

           

          Have a good Sunday!

           

          2 users thanked author for this post.
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