Time interval from power on to full bootup

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Dell Inspiron 519 desktop dual booting (on separate disks) W7 HP x64 sp1 and Linux Mint Mate 19.2, recently installed.  When powering up, a grub screen displays to offer a choice between the two systems.

Over the years, W7 has been taking longer and longer to boot fully- it now takes just about 4½ minutes to reach that point.  By comparison, Mint gets there in about 50 seconds.  (I have noticed that in general the Mint OS is much faster at responding to commands than 7.)

Various scans for malware, viruses, etc. have always come back clean, and we have used Emsisoft Anti-malware for some time.  Could be that there are too many services or processes that are enabled at startup but I don’t know which ones are extraneous and which are needed.

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I’ve previously used Black Vipers configurations on Windows 7 Pro x64. There are important ones which need to be kept automatic (which he covers) and others you need to think whether the service is useful to you or just excess.

Note: Don’t use the ‘Bare-Bones’ this is advanced settings that can undo inbuilt Win7 security measures.

No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT- AE

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Slowpoke47, satrow

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Black Viper’s configs are a good starting point (though a little too conservative for me 😉 ).

W7 can build up a lot of junk that it attempts to start/preload during boot though.

I’d expect a clean W7 on HDD, no networking or AV, to be usable in ~1 minute if the BIOS is set to load only what’s needed and 3rd party drivers kept to a minimum.

What 3rd party drivers are loading? DriverView and hide Windows drivers, attach a screenshot and a screenshot of TaskMan’s Performance tab, taken as soon as you can load it (Ctrl/Alt/Esc), would give us something to go on.

Also describe your usage, print/scanning/networking/ext. drives, etc.

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Slowpoke47, Microfix

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satrow wrote:

What 3rd party drivers are loading? DriverView and hide Windows drivers, attach a screenshot and a screenshot of TaskMan’s Performance tab, taken as soon as you can load it (Ctrl/Alt/Esc).

DriverView shows a list of 150 entries.  Not exactly sure what to do with that, did you want me to delete some entries?

 

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Set DriverView to Hide the MS drivers and to show the modified date column, don’t delete anything at this stage (recovering from a persistent Boot BSOD is no fun):

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Slowpoke47

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Here’s the DriverView result.  The second and third column, address and end address, showed all rows of O’s.

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Better than I’d expected, you can probably ‘lose’ the SoftModem drivers by disabling it in the BIOS (unless you use it for Fax?). What’s so special about the mouse that it uses drivers, can you get by on the Windows mouse drivers instead?

Is there anything ‘overboard’ in the Emsisoft settings, something that’s overkill, perhaps?

Next, Autoruns – set this to hide Windows drivers (leave the MS drivers showing) and to check VirusTotal; once it’s checked with VT (see the far right column, should be showing mostly 0/64 or similar), save it as the default Autoruns.ARN and upload it somewhere (One Drive/Google drive… ?) and send the link, ensure it’s set for Public.

Also a screenshot of TaskMan’s Performance tab, taken as soon as you can load it at Boot (Ctrl/Alt/Esc) and describe your usage, print/scanning/networking/ext. drives, etc.

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Slowpoke47, Microfix

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FWIW – I’ve had a handful of Dells over the years and everyone of them comes LOADED with junkware/bloatware. A lot of it starts by default on boot-up. You probably can live a very happy life without most of it, but at the very least you probably can keep it from starting on bootup. I don’t remember how to do it right off the top of my head but there is a way to tell what’s being loaded at boot-up and ways to keep those programs from loading. Be a bit careful because you may want/need some of them! Dell Backup and Recovery is particularly sloth-like on boot-up. SmartThinks Agent also gums things up, pretty much all the time, not just on a boot.

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What is the Fragmentation state on Windows disk?
How full is the disk?

I’m not that familiar with Dell’s ‘helpful applications’. But you may be able to cancel the auto-initiation by bringing up each application and looking in any menus for the option to check ‘Don’t start at logon’, or similar verbiage. One also can cancel these starts by making changes in the Registry; but do it the graceful way first if possible.

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Slowpoke47, satrow

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[Slowpoke47]

satrow wrote:

you can probably ‘lose’ the SoftModem drivers by disabling it in the BIOS (unless you use it for Fax?)

  Unsure how to do this.  On the rare occasions that we send a fax, it goes through the HP software.

The mouse is a basic Logitech corded optical beast, nothing special, purchased at Walmart.

satrow wrote:

Is there anything ‘overboard’ in the Emsisoft settings, something that’s overkill, perhaps?

No idea, but the bootup time has gradually lengthened for years, well before Emsisoft.

satrow wrote:

Next, Autoruns – set this to hide Windows drivers (leave the MS drivers showing) and to check VirusTotal; once it’s checked with VT (see the far right column, should be showing mostly 0/64 or similar), save it as the default Autoruns.ARN and upload it somewhere (One Drive/Google drive… ?) and send the link, ensure it’s set for Public. Also a screenshot of TaskMan’s Performance tab, taken as soon as you can load it at Boot (Ctrl/Alt/Esc) and describe your usage, print/scanning/networking/ext. drives, etc

Not familiar with any of this, but we don’t use Google anything.

Usage is mostly dealing with home-related business affairs- banking, accounting, etc., related occasional scanning and printing as well as online queries using DuckDuckGo.  No gaming at all.  LAN consisting of router, 1 desktop, one laptop.  Only ext. drive is used for weekly backups.

• This reply was modified 4 years ago by Slowpoke47.

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[Slowpoke47]

DrBonzo wrote:

FWIW – I’ve had a handful of Dells over the years and everyone of them comes LOADED with junkware/bloatware. A lot of it starts by default on boot-up. You probably can live a very happy life without most of it, but at the very least you probably can keep it from starting on bootup. I don’t remember how to do it right off the top of my head but there is a way to tell what’s being loaded at boot-up and ways to keep those programs from loading. Be a bit careful because you may want/need some of them! Dell Backup and Recovery is particularly sloth-like on boot-up. SmartThinks Agent also gums things up, pretty much all the time, not just on a boot.

I have seen quite a list of programs that run at startup, but I don’t know which ones I can get rid of.  We use Macrium for backup, don’t recall seeing anything about Dell Backup.  And I think there are “services” always running that I likely don’t need.

• This reply was modified 4 years ago by Slowpoke47.

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[DrBonzo]

You can see all the processes that are running in Task Manager. Many of the Dell programs – although not all – will be obvious because they will actually say Dell. You can google them to see what they do and if desired kill the task and see what effect it has on your machine.

You can also go to Control Panel —> System and Security —> Administrative Tools —> Services. Highlight a service, then pull down the Action menu and choose Properties. In the General tab you’ll see Start-up Type where you can disable the service if you want. There should also be a link that says something to the effect of ‘Help me Configure Service Start-up Options’. So, you can disable a start-up service restart your computer and see if it still runs acceptable and if the start up time speeds up. Some of the services will probably give rise to negligible decreases in start-up times, but others may have quite an effect. It’s trial and error but it works if you’re willing to mess around with it.

By the way, my current Dell – the one I’m using right now takes about 5 minutes to boot up completely. I’ve gotten rid of a lot of junk but don’t have the time/patience to do more, so I just start it up in the morning and get a cup of coffee while I’m waiting – no problem. When I’m installing patches and need to restart, I always let the machine run for 20 minutes or so anyway to let it do what it needs to do – no problem either.

Hope this helps.

Edit to add: There’s no Registry to deal with in the above, so it’s pretty safe; if you’re like me, you’re perhaps a bit hesitant to go into the Registry. Just try to get a basic idea of what a service does and keep records of what you disable so you can re-enable if needed.

• This reply was modified 4 years ago by DrBonzo.

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Slowpoke47

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PaulK wrote:

What is the Fragmentation state on Windows disk?
How full is the disk?

I’m not that familiar with Dell’s ‘helpful applications’. But you may be able to cancel the auto-initiation by bringing up each application and looking in any menus for the option to check ‘Don’t start at logon’, or similar verbiage. One also can cancel these starts by making changes in the Registry; but do it the graceful way first if possible.

We defrag on a weekly basis.

I have seen a screen that shows running “services” but I don’t know which ones we can do without.

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DrBonzo- yes, I have looked at those services from time to time and disabled some.  We’ve been using the same strategy as you describe re bootup, but since W7, for us, will be fading into the background, I’m not going to obsess over slow boot time.  And like you, I’m reticent about changing registry entries for fear of catastrophe.

But, as we begin to transition into Mint, the contrast is unmistakable- Mint boots up in less than a minute.

 

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No doubt about it, Linux will generally boot up pretty fast. I have Ubuntu 16.04 LTS installed as a single boot on a 10 year old HP laptop and it boots in about 2 minutes.

I haven’t tried to cut the boot time on my daily driver Win 7 Dell computer in more than 3 years now; I just live with a 5 minute boot.

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Slowpoke47

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DrBonzo wrote:

No doubt about it, Linux will generally boot up pretty fast. I have Ubuntu 16.04 LTS installed as a single boot on a 10 year old HP laptop and it boots in about 2 minutes.

I haven’t tried to cut the boot time on my daily driver Win 7 Dell computer in more than 3 years now; I just live with a 5 minute boot.

Looks to me that, given the quick Mint boot time, the slow boot in W7 is a Windows issue and not a Dell issue (but likely there are superfluous Dell “services” in the equation).

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? says:

run “systsmd analyze” from teminal:

(Startup finished in 32.244s (kernel) + 7.776s (userspace) = 40.021s) current boot this session

also “systemd-analyze blame” and ‘systemd-analyze critical-chain”

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I have an eight-and-a-half years old PC running Windows 7 Pro, x64. It has, at present, about 300 GB free in the Windows partition of a750 GB HD that now shares with Linux Mint in dual-boot; an Intel I-7 four-core central processor and 8 GB of RAM.

Gradually over the years, it took longer and longer for it to start the day from the initial screen flashing the MS Windows’ flag until everything was running at standard speed: browsers, email client and other applications.

One day, because of a serious problem that developed at boot-up, I received from someone here the advice to turn off start up programs and also services (the AV excluded, perhaps, if you do not regularly use it to scan the system before logging out and turning off the PC) that did not seem necessary to what I use the machine for, including among the “services” anything not from MS and, maybe, leaving in place also some from the OEM of the computer (HP in my case). I did that and, lo and behold, the machine started considerably faster and without negative side-effects that I have noticed, ever since I did that.

The following gives instructions to how to turn off startup programs not needed from the very start of a session, from launching and delaying things. When using the “msconfig” option, that will take you to a place with two choices: “startup” software and “services”, do one and then the other as indicated:

https://kb.iu.edu/d/adlf

Good luck and all the best.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Slowpoke47

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The common name for the gradual slowing of Windows over time is “Windows rot.”  I’ve seen the probable results of it on a lot of machines that I am fixing, but I can’t tell if they got slow gradually or after one or more big events.  I’ve never had it on my own machines, but when I used Windows, I was rather obsessive about making sure that anything I uninstalled actually was uninstalled, manually cleaning out the remaining drivers, .dlls, and registry entries, if necessary.  It’s so common for Windows programs to leave bits of detritus behind that many programs have official or unofficial manual uninstallation guides available, giving you a hint at where to look for the remaining bits.  I regularly went to the registry auto-start keys and removed anything I didn’t think necessary, and there was a lot… many programs set an entry to run their own update checker at boot time.

As far as the speed of Linux (or Windows) booting, you should try it from an SSD!

 

Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/16GB & GTX1660ti, KDE Neon
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, KDE Neon (and Win 11 for maintenance)

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Slowpoke47

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[Microfix]

The following gives instructions to how to turn off startup programs not needed from the very start of a session, from launching and delaying things. When using the “msconfig” option, that will take you to a place with two choices: “startup” software and “services”, do one and then the other as indicated:https://kb.iu.edu/d/adlf

Many thanks for this tutorial, written in language I can understand!

• This reply was modified 4 years ago by Microfix. Reason: quote and link fix

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Slowpoke47 wrote:

Many thanks for this tutorial, written in language I can understand!

The URL given doesn’t work for me, Slowpoke47.

Image or Clone often! Backup, backup, backup, backup......
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FTFY @Slowpoke47.

@RockE link now fixed

No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT- AE

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RockE wrote:

The URL given doesn’t work for me, Slowpoke47.

That’s odd- it brought me to the Indiana University knowledge base, “Prevent programs from starting automatically in Windows.”

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Interesting.

When I submitted my reply above, my reply when into the (Awaiting moderation) bucket.

What do I need to know about my reply that triggered that?

Were there too many links?

If so, what is the *limit* that this form places on replies?

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You got caught on the number of links in your post. If there are more than three, you often get caught in moderation. The reason for that is spammers use multiple bad/infected links, so it needs to be checked for safety reasons.

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mledman, Slowpoke47

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@ Slowpoke47

Slowpoke47 wrote:

That’s odd- it brought me to the Indiana University knowledge base, “Prevent programs from starting automatically in Windows.”

In your original post replying to @ OscarCP, your quoting of the information from his reply from # 1966831 somehow was *messed up*. The quote only showed @ OscarCP’s reply link, but all the text was outside the quote box, and was added to your reply text. The link to the Indiana U. site was invalid because this Reply Editor had added some *formatting* to the link, which changed the actual location requested.

You may have missed @ Microfix’s reply above where he said:

Microfix wrote:

FTFY @slowpoke47.

Or, maybe you did not understand what he had posted (on my soap box: I really don’t like folks making replies using abbreviations or slang or texting shortcuts unless they have previously defined those abbreviations earlier in their reply (which of course takes more time and effort)–the assumption that *everybody understands their shorthand* is a bad assumption–but, unfortunately, that’s the current way of things–everyone’s in a hurry–and leave the heavy lifting to the reader to figure out what their brevity means–off my soap box).

I did not know what the above *FTFY* meant either–I had to spend the time Googling it to see. FTFY = Fixed That For You. Microfix has edited your original reply that had the mis-formed quote in it, so it now looks as it does above. With the correction putting the quote correctly in the quote box–now the link is correctly formatted and takes you to the correct website.

I don’t know if you missed noticing that your reply was mis-formed–not showing the quote you were attempting to make, but it good forum etiquette to check one’s reply to see that it looks proper–and to test one’s links within one’s reply to see that they work correctly. If the reply is not as intended, or one or more of the links within your reply is not working correctly (you have to actually try them), you have 15 minutes from the time of your initial posting to edit and correct what may be amiss.

So, hopefully that explains what @ RockE was commenting about regarding the link not working correctly.

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RockE, Slowpoke47

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OK- using NightOwl’s link, and following the steps for Windows 7, here’s where it leads me- Start> All Programs> Startup- folder is empty.

The System Config utility opens with this:

The startup tab shows this- note that all items with check marks appear in this s/shot

Here’s the first part of the Servives list- note that all items are checked, whether running or not.  As you can see from the size of the “slider” button on the right, this list is extensive.

There are many more Services, need to know which ones can be disabled.

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@ PKCano

PKCano wrote:

You got caught on the number of links in your post. If there are more than three, you often get caught in moderation.

Thank you for your explanation. I don’t want to increase the work of the Moderators, so I will try to limit my use of links in the future.

Is this limitation noted somewhere in the FAQs about using the Reply Editor? Also, is there someplace where the limit of only 4 screenshots per reply is noted? (I actually saw one post that had 6 screenshots–don’t know how that happened!)

Just wondering if folks can find this information easily regarding using this forum’s Reply Editor?

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b, geekdom

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Slowpoke47 wrote:

There are many more Services, need to know which ones can be disabled

I’d uninstall Java unless you have a specific need. Java is bad, m’kay.
HP, Spotify and Max Manager can be disabled for the test.

Can you re-post that page with the first column expanded so we can see more of the description? Then we can suggest more possibilities.

cheers, Paul

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Slowpoke47

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Paul T wrote:

I’d uninstall Java unless you have a specific need. Java is bad, m’kay. HP, Spotify and Max Manager can be disabled for the test. Can you re-post that page with the first column expanded so we can see more of the description? Then we can suggest more possibilities.

I removed Spotify yesterday, as I don’t think I need it.  The only way I know to expand a window is to hover the cursor over the edge to get an arrow, then drag the edge to change the window size.  I had tried that with this window, but no arrow appeared.  Is there another way?

Another question- what is the function of Java?  What will be lost by removing it?

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Slowpoke47 wrote:

Another question- what is the function of Java?  What will be lost by removing it?

Java is… well for the end user, it’s just needed by a number of applications.

What it actually is, is a separate programming language and runtime environment by Sun Microsystems, that was originally supposed to be independent of any single hardware architecture or operating system. So, install Java for your platform, then you can run any Java application. That was the theory and … it never quite got there.

Java applications could run either independently or in a web browser with a plugin. The plugins were deprecated a while ago already.

Sun was bought out by Oracle and according to them, current Java applications are supposed to package their own Java support components, so the separate Java installation is only for “legacy” applications.

Not sure if you still need it to play Minecraft, used to at least. There’s any number of serious applications too, from server disk array management to project management to interior design…

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Slowpoke47

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I would like to suggest that you download and install Kerish Doctor.  You can trial it free for 15 days.  Take an image backup before running it the first time; just to be safe.

Then, run the full maintenance app and accept all suggested changes. Reboot, and see if the boot time hasn’t improved.  There are a ton of other options to try as well.  I’ve been using Kerish Doctor for years and I’ve never had one issue with it corrupting or “borking” something.  I have it on all my PC’s and I recommend it to everyone I know.  For most people, it does speed up systems and keeps them lean & mean.

6.2.6

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Slowpoke47

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Another “Windows maintenance” utility that probably does nothing and costs you money.

If anyone has used it and found noticeable differences please let us know.

cheers, Paul

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Slowpoke47

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Paul T wrote:

Another “Windows maintenance” utility that probably does nothing and costs you money. If anyone has used it and found noticeable differences please let us know.

I am the one who posted the previous tip about Kerish Doctor.  (I’m new to these forums, so I’m still trying to figure them out.)  Trust me, I used to think the same thing about Kerish Doctor, but, this one is different.  Feel free to check out the forum on Wilders or even on Malwaretips and you’ll find lots of security aficionado’s who also swear by this software.  It’s definitely a keeper.  Besides, there is a 15 day free trial and it’s fully functional.  What have you got to lose?!

As with any software or even substantial changes to your computer, you should have a good image backup and make sure that you’ve backed up your files.

6.2.6

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Links to these favourable reviews please.

cheers, Paul

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https://malwaretips.com/threads/system-mechanic-vs-kerish-doctor-2019.92407/

https://malwaretips.com/threads/is-it-worth-it-to-buy-kerish-doctor.76891/

https://www.wilderssecurity.com/threads/kerish-doctor-2019-free-for-one-year.414736/

https://www.wilderssecurity.com/threads/kerish-doctor-2018-v4-70-released.404417/

 

These are but a few.

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Paul T wrote:

I’d uninstall Java

Java uninstalled, restarted pc, boot time to functionality looks like 2½ minutes or thereabouts- much better than 4½ min. before.  I’ll see what happens at the next “cold” start.

Re the Services menu- Administrative Tools> System Configuration> Services shows a different list from Admin. Tools> Services.  I didn’t compare line by line, but the first few entries are not all the same on the two lists.  Is that normal?

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Slowpoke47 wrote:

The only way I know to expand a window is to hover the cursor over the edge to get an arrow

Expand the column by hovering between “Startup Item” and “Manufacturer”. The cursor will change to a double arrow and you can then click and drag.

cheers, Paul

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Slowpoke47

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Paul T wrote:

Can you re-post that page with the first column expanded so we can see more of the description? Then we can suggest more possibilities.

This is the entire list of Services entries.  I’ve tried to economize on forum resources by assembling them in a document.

Services-menu-10-1-19

Here is the start menu.  Any entries not visible here are not running.

Timed elements this morning:

Power on to Grub screen- 15 sec.

From Grub to Win7 (apparently fully functional)- 2:08

Additional time to full boot of Firefox- 2:09.  FF currently boots with four tabs and about 150 bookmarks.

To get these times, I selected the Firefox icon in the tray when the OS was almost fully loaded and started timing the FF loading/ completion of OS loading when the first (blank) screen appeared indicating FF beginning to load.  Not sure if this is correct.

Also- discovered today that with Java removed, some elements of Open Office do not work.

 

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I upgraded my F8Sn laptop (2008 manufacture; Core 2 Duo, 8GB RAM) to a 1TB SSD a couple of years ago, before I upgraded it to Windows 8.1.  It booted quite fast with 7, and 8.1 may have shaved a bit more off of it still (clean install of 8.1; I don’t believe upgrading was even an option).

When I bought my Dell G3, which came with a 1TB 5400 RPM HDD, I swapped them, so the SSD is now in the G3, and the HDD in the F8.  I restored each one’s most recent Macrium Reflect image at that time.

I never really did anything with the F8 after putting the HDD in it and restoring its data, but I booted it just now for a test.  It had been quite fast with the SSD, so I was hopeful.

I forgot how slow hard drives are, especially when Dell buys the cheapest, least performant HDD they can find.  This thing has half the sequential read speed that my WD Black 750GB laptop drive has, and its random read is probably equally as bad relative to the speedier WD.

On the good side, the drive doesn’t get hot even after running for a long time.  The WD Black would get quite hot to the touch after being in operation for a while.  If I intended to use the laptop into which it is installed on battery, that could be a nice touch (since heat is directly related to power consumption).

With that drive, my F8 takes 12 seconds to get from pressing ON to GRUB, and 53 seconds to get to the Windows lock screen.  It’s not done by that point, so I quickly swipe my finger on the sensor (this was not the primary means of security when I used this PC!) and let it finish.  By 2 minutes even, it stopped “Preparing Windows” and showed me the desktop for the first time.  I clicked the Waterfox icon to approximate your test.

By 3.5 minutes, it got around to loading the browser.

It’s not too far off of your reports here.  I have a lot of stuff set to start with that PC’s Windows, and I’d already gotten several “there’s a new version of this!” messages by the time it actually loaded Waterfox.  I have 7+ Taskbar Tweaker, Old New Explorer, Metro Killer, Classic Start + Classic Explorer, Toshiba Bluetooth suite, MSI Afterburner, an Autohotkey script, Samsung Magician (the thing for the SSD that isn’t even in there anymore), a screenshot utility, and a bunch of other stuff.  For antimalware, it uses Windows Defender (the equivalent of which in 7 would be Microsoft Security Essentials, if it’s still called that).

Now… it feels hair-tearingly, frustratingly slow, like there’s something wrong with it, but is there?  I don’t think there is.  It’s the same setup I had with the SSD that was ready very quick after a boot.  I don’t have any measured times, but it was far less than it is now.

Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/16GB & GTX1660ti, KDE Neon
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, KDE Neon (and Win 11 for maintenance)

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Slowpoke47

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[Alex5723]

Slowpoke47 wrote:

Here is the start menu.  Any entries not visible here are not running.

Can you please add ‘CPU on startup’ column ?

The list of startup applications isn’t full, for example, missing are real-time security apps like anti-virus, firewall apps…

• This reply was modified 4 years ago by Alex5723.

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Are you using Win7?

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PKCano wrote:

Are you using Win7?

No, 1809. Isn’t the Task Manager on W7 the same as W10 ? I can’t remember.

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Of course not.

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I can’t see anything in that list that would account for such a slow system.

Can you fire up Sysinternals Autoruns for a full list of start up items?

I see Java is still partially installed. What things in OO don’t work?

cheers, Paul

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Slowpoke47

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… right, many people still use OpenOffice and not LibreOffice. OpenOffice is a lot more Java-dependent still.

In LibreOffice it’s mostly database and not all of it, then the wiki publisher and non-linear solver extensions. OpenOffice still depends on Java also for things like accessibility and…

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Slowpoke47

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Paul T wrote:

I can’t see anything in that list that would account for such a slow system.

Can you fire up Sysinternals Autoruns for a full list of start up items?

I see Java is still partially installed. What things in OO don’t work?

cheers, Paul

Thanks for posting.  Could not find sysinternal(s) autorun(s) or a helpful variation using Start> Search box.  Is there a path from Administrative Tools?

So far, Open Office spreadsheet had a couple of glitches- not serious, used a workaround- don’t remember the exact context, but it involved manipulating cells (see name, Slowpoke).

Just timed bootup from “cold” start:  Power on to Grub screen, 0:28; Selected W7, loading starts, @ total elapsed time 2:40, selected Firefox icon in tray; FF visibly loading @ 3:17; FF fully loaded @ 4:04.

Purposefully selected FF while the OS was still loading to try for a clue as to when the OS is in fact loaded, but could still be loading even though the screen showed the beginning of FF.  Not really sure how to interpret these times.  BTW- FF loads with 4 tabs and about 150 bookmarks.

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Sysinternals download here:

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/

Many of these utilities are useful and I would suggest downloading the entire Sysinternals Suite.

On permanent hiatus {with backup and coffee}
offline▸ Win10Pro 2004.19041.572 x64 i3-3220 RAM8GB HDD Firefox83.0b3 WindowsDefender
offline▸ Acer TravelMate P215-52 RAM8GB Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1265 x64 i5-10210U SSD Firefox106.0 MicrosoftDefender
online▸ Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1992 x64 i5-9400 RAM16GB HDD Firefox116.0b3 MicrosoftDefender

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Slowpoke47

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jabeattyauditor wrote:

Windows 7 grew over time; if you’re trying to boot it with less than 4GB RAM, a slow CPU, and a slow hard disk, you’ll see slow boot times.

True that this pc is not the latest and greatest, although it does have 4GB RAM.  But, two points:  The original hard disk, which was Vista, was replaced about 5 years ago with a new disk preloaded with a legal instance of W7 HP x64, and the boot time has lengthened substantially since then.

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Slowpoke47 wrote:

The original hard disk, which was Vista, was replaced about 5 years ago with a new disk preloaded with a legal instance of W7 HP x64, and the boot time has lengthened substantially since then.

What brand/model of hard disk?

Have you configured a fixed-size paging file? If Windows has to build one each time you boot, that’ll suck up some extra resources, especially if it’s writing to a slower hard disk.

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Slowpoke47

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I’m not sure why my original message on this thread was deleted, but…

You have a rather old PC – how much RAM do you have to work with, and what CPU? How slow is the hard drive?

Windows 7 grew over time; if you’re trying to boot it with less than 4GB RAM, a slow CPU, and a slow hard disk, you’ll see slow boot times.

A small-footprint Linux distro might boot considerably faster on ancient hardware, primarily because it’s not loading as much at startup and it’s not immediately trying to swap everything out to an (possibly) old & slow hard disk.

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Slowpoke47

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geekdom wrote:

Many of these utilities are useful and I would suggest downloading the entire Sysinternals Suite.

That suite is quite extensive.  Downloading complete.  What do I do with it?  PaulT mentioned autoruns, there are multiple line items with this name.

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Autoruns.exe shows all things that start with Windows. Fire it up and wander through.

cheers, Paul

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Slowpoke47

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Paul T wrote:

Autoruns.exe shows all things that start with Windows. Fire it up and wander through.

cheers, Paul

Sorry to be so dense, could you please suggest which item to choose?

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Autoruns is 32-bit or Autoruns64 64-bit, if you aren’t sure pick Autoruns.

Tip: Turning on the option to view file extensions in the File Explorer control panel may add more visual clutter, but can eliminate some doubt. (It is the file’s contents that matter.) Of course you may also get curious about some new file extensions. 🙂

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jabeattyauditor wrote:

What brand/model of hard disk? Have you configured a fixed-size paging file? If Windows has to build one each time you boot, that’ll suck up some extra resources, especially if it’s writing to a slower hard disk.

No info on the disk specs- but when installed it was not slow, so I assume in the intervening years the OS has accumulated additional start items which may or may not be needed.

Also, an update- Today I cold-booted W7 and left it alone for several minutes, after which Firefox began loading in only a few seconds, as opposed to the 2+ minutes previously.  This likely indicates that, in yesterday’s experiment, the OS was not fully loaded even though FF began loading onscreen.

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Ascaris wrote:

By 3.5 minutes, it got around to loading the browser.

Thanks for this post.  Maybe I should stop looking for trouble and live with the current performance.  Our response to the MS orphaning of W7 is to abandon MS.  We expect to be “graduating” to the Mint OS over the next couple of months anyway, and will be attempting to transfer the Windows files and programs there.  Initial perusing of the new Mint install shows it to be reasonably user-friendly and not too foreign to W7 users.

The only reasons for the dual boot are to deal with transferring files on a deliberative time frame and to retain a couple of programs not available for Linux.  Linux will be our new home with only occasional use of W7.

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@ Slowpoke47

Slowpoke47 wrote:

Over the years, W7 has been taking longer and longer to boot fully– it now takes just about 4½ minutes to reach that point. By comparison, Mint gets there in about 50 seconds.

So, I have a general question for all the Linux users (especially those who have an installed Linux OS that they have been using for 3-5 years now) that might be looking at this thread:

Does Linux show the same slow down to the boot time, over time, that most of us have experienced with our Windows installations? As more and more programs are installed and used, does the Linux OS place more and more start up items on the system, and does Linux take more and more time to laod?

Over the years, I’ve seen lots of discussions about how a *new* installation of Linux is *so much faster* than their old, tired Windows installation. But, I’ve not seen a discussion about what happens to an *old, tired* Linux installation.

Does it suffer the same bloat and slow down that we see with Windows? Or, has Linux found a way to prevent that?

It would be of interest to hear a discussion of this from experience Linux users.

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Slowpoke47

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Just Lurking wrote:

It would be of interest to hear a discussion of this from experience Linux users.

My linux/UNIX experience is primarily limited to servers; boot time simply isn’t/wasn’t a factor for the installs I’ve worked on, as reboots occur so infrequently. You simply don’t have to reboot every time you make a minor change or patch something, and the relative lack of memory leaks allows you to leave a system running for months/years at a time without loss of performance.

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Slowpoke47

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Just Lurking wrote:

But, I’ve not seen a discussion about what happens to an *old, tired* Linux installation.

Typically, nothing much. Actually more typical that they speed up than that they’d slow down, in the absence of hardware problems – especially as things tend to get gradually better optimized in later kernel versions in the same branch.

There’s also less stuff on the “critical path” to do at bootup, because the file locking paradigm is so much easier to handle – same thing as why Windows has to reboot for all those updates and Linux can just keep running, so don’t need to check for possibly pending actions much.

It’s possible to stuff a Linux installation full of autostart applications, sure, but those are rarely seen in the wild.

jabeattyauditor wrote:

My linux/UNIX experience is primarily limited to servers; boot time simply isn’t/wasn’t a factor … … allows you to leave a system running for months/years at a time without loss of performance.

Well yes, proper servers… sure they might take half an hour or longer to boot up in case of full cold start, what with checking all individual power supplies and multiple disk arrays and full comprehensive memory check for all memory channels from each processor socket independently and…

Those would also take 2 weeks to stabilize after a full restart of everything simultaneously, as in gradually speed up when usage-weighted caches and such gradually settle again… and then run very stably for years, what with just the occasional hotplug part swap.

And if you had a memory leak in a single component or service, you could usually isolate that fairly easily and just restart a single service.

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Thanks to all who posted to this thread.  Apparently my complaint is a common one, and since, for us, W7 is about to get “stored in the attic”, I’ll look for something else to pique my concern.

Between this issue, a couple of other stubborn inconveniences, and relentless efforts by MS to saddle W7 with telemetry, it will not be too hard to walk away.

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Just uninstalled IE 11, bootup seemed to be about 1 minute faster.  Unknown if any connection.

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Hi Slowpoke47, I enjoy reading your path of experimentation. It has reminded me of many things forgotten, and a couple I probably missed along my own path. Nothing beats hands on breaking and fixing. Please continue finding for yourself which pieces cause which effects.

Separately from experimenting, if you are still discussing a Windows7 install and you intend to use this machine in a normal fashion, I want to caution or steer in a different direction. When you have come to the point of uninstalling IE11, your efforts may be better spent pursuing the Linux Mint system and becoming more comfortable there. Or even advance to Windows10. Speed at the cost of reverting to an outdated standard is not worth the trade, in my estimation. Happy hunting.

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anonymous wrote:

Hi Slowpoke47, I enjoy reading your path of experimentation. It has reminded me of many things forgotten, and a couple I probably missed along my own path. Nothing beats hands on breaking and fixing. Please continue finding for yourself which pieces cause which effects.

Separately from experimenting, if you are still discussing a Windows7 install and you intend to use this machine in a normal fashion, I want to caution or steer in a different direction. When you have come to the point of uninstalling IE11, your efforts may be better spent pursuing the Linux Mint system and becoming more comfortable there. Or even advance to Windows10. Speed at the cost of reverting to an outdated standard is not worth the trade, in my estimation. Happy hunting.

Thanks for posting.  If you have in fact been reading my posts, you would have seen that I am dual booting Mint and W7, with the eventual goal of using 7 locally only for a couple of needed programs not available for Mint.

Even with my, at this juncture, limited experience with Mint, W7 shows up as a poor second.

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I had. This was why I named Mint specifically. I hoped to encourage spending time there rather than additional time crippling the system you will probably stop using soon. Sorry that my opinion does not match yours. It is your time to spend. Enjoy your experience.

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