• Time to install Creators Update?

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    #111259

    I’ve received many questions like this, from MT: I am currently on Version 1607 (Build 14393.953). Some time ago I enabled “Defer Windows Updates” per
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    • #111276

      Could it be that the main confusion is that “Defer Windows Updates” doesn’t apply to the regular updates, but only the feature updates, like the Creators Update?

       

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      • #111284

        Entirely possible. I hope MT jumps in here.

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      • #111376

        I thought that it’s quite obvious – but with MS these days nothing is…

        Antec P7 Silent * Corsair RM550x * ASUS TUF GAMING B560M-PLUS * Intel Core i5-11400F * 4 x 8 GB G.Skill Aegis DDR4 3200 MHz CL16 * Sapphire Radeon 6700 10GB * XPG GAMMIX S70 BLADE 1TB * SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Windows 10 Pro 22H2 64-bit
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    • #111307

      v1703 upgrade will not be delivered directly, instead you first get regular update kb4013214

      which installs a “Privacy” review panel, which you need to go though to set your privacy options

      then you will get v1703 through Windows Update

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    • #111369

      For non-techies, there is an article here to ponder..

      Win8.1/R2 Hybrid lives on...
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      • #111377

        Oh that is nice.

        Antec P7 Silent * Corsair RM550x * ASUS TUF GAMING B560M-PLUS * Intel Core i5-11400F * 4 x 8 GB G.Skill Aegis DDR4 3200 MHz CL16 * Sapphire Radeon 6700 10GB * XPG GAMMIX S70 BLADE 1TB * SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Windows 10 Pro 22H2 64-bit
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      • #111512

        For non-techies, there is an article here to ponder..

        Fits right in with the idea that the release cycle needs to be shortened to 6 months from 8, right? RIGHT?

        -Noel

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        • #111606

          Differentiating between wanting and needing:

          Who wants this mess that is W10?

          Who needs it? (my answer) 🙂

          Win8.1/R2 Hybrid lives on...
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      • #111673

        Thanks for the article link, it captures the humor, sadness, idiocy and drama of Microsoft.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #111406

      However, it does bring into question the true compatibility of older hardware on W10 when it comes to the evolution of the OS. Future upgrades may render W10 unusable on some systems, or worse still render the PC itself unusable.

      When GWX was first offered, the minimum system requirements were very low for the first W10 build. The specs were revised up with the Anniversary Update and now the Creators Update is apparently pushing a new threshold. This was inevitable and the techie world knew it.

      I contend that the windows update appraiser patch, KB 3150513, is determining if a system is going to get the latest W10 build or not and that is why it was updated before the Creators Update was released. MS knows that some systems will not be able to handle the new build.

      Another naughty list is being compiled, however, this list has nothing to do with banning W7/8 running on new silicon, this list is about a new W10 build being banned from running on older silicon. If the PC is considered incompatible for the latest build what will happen? MS could always turn off windows update for that processor! They have a KB for that.

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      • #111434

        @ anonymous#111406

        this list is about a new W10 build being banned from running on older silicon. If the PC is considered incompatible for the latest build what will happen?

        If the Win 10 CU Build is banned by M$ from running on older silicon which is running the AU Build because of hardware incompatibility, what will happen to the affected computer users when the Win 10 AU Build reaches EOL at around Aug 2018 ? …

        # 1. buy a new OEM Win 10 or MacOS computer.
        # 2. if possible, reinstall or clean install Win 7/8.1.(Product Key required)
        # 3. if not possible, and got no money$ = may be stuck with no reliable computer.
        # 4. if possible, clean install Linux.
        .
        .
        P S – Win 10 Build 1511 will reach EOL around Nov 2017.

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    • #111408

      Well, CU is actually the first Win 10 version (more than two and half year after the Win 10 shiz show started) that is somewhat stable (Windows XP like). At least, it’s a lot more stable than the cr**py AU release, which refused to boot into the desktop after each and every Windows update. The CU install (manually on top of AU) worked without issues and there’s hope that Microsoft gets the Win 10 act together by 2020… Nonetheless, it’s crucial to review ALL settings after installing CU since the smart folks at Microsoft love it to reset telemetry settings. Finally, anone using group policies/registry settings to control Windows Updates should reset those settings BEFORE installing CU, and restore afterwards. Otherwise, some settings might be locked afterwards (i.e. Configure Automatic Updates). It seems, the smart folks at Microsoft broke some internal handling of related group policies.

      Edited for content

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    • #111439

      I had downloaded the Win10_1703_English_x64.iso and installed it three weeks ago on my test system (same specs as my primary system) on which I had just put 1607. I encountered no problems installing and running it on the old system which was modern seven years ago. Playing around with Paint3D, I found that it doesn’t save in any useful format and so I had to use 3D builder to do that. Ho-hum, nothing new under the sun from my point of view. After simply uninstalling and turning off what 1703 allowed me to, for all intents and purposes 1703 looked no different to me than 1607. If I was into 3D printing, I certainly wouldn’t be using Paint3D and 3DBuilder as my go to software, so I have to wonder what all the fuss is about? I mean, can’t Microsoft just update their subsystems separately the way they always used to? If the .Net Framework could go from 4.5 to 4.6 back on Windows 7, why can’t that and UWP things continue to be done separately in Windows 10? Why would any of that necessitate kernel level API changes? What makes it necessary to change all of this software at the same time? Are Microsoft’s managers and engineers so desperate for relevance in the waning days of the Windows that they resort to this to get attention to avoid getting canned too? Anyway, for right now anyway, I’m treating the Creators Update like a dog treats a fireplug… 🙂

      HP Compaq 6000 Pro SFF PC / Windows 10 Pro / 22H2
      Intel®Core™2 “Wolfdale” E8400 3.0 GHz / 8.00 GB
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    • #111443
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    • #111451

      Well according to MS appearently now is not the time to install the latest Creators Update “Alpha” release of the “Steaming Pile” that is Windows 10:

      http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/3009112/microsoft-dont-install-the-windows-10-creators-update-yourself

       

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    • #111509

      I had my v1703 installation in my test VM all tweaked up, managed to get Windows Update to bring it up to 15063.138, then… Windows Update just quit working.

      I was able to update from the catalog to 15063.250, but the normal online update process just failed and returned error code 0x80070426 with some vague note that it might be helpful if requesting support.

      Tell me why, in 2017 when we have operating systems that download thousands of megabytes of data to install, that a function like Windows Update should be able to fail with an error code that would leave a career software engineer with 40 years experience unable to begin to understand what’s wrong.

      It’s absolutely ludicrous.

      And Woody’s right; let us masochists who love testing buggy software play with it for a few months. There’s no way I’d trust this turkey to run a critical system.

      -Noel

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      • #111553

        Oh that is such a mess. I have a computer I wanted to transfer data from to an AU one and I saw they changed the REFS version in CU to a version no other Windows has, not even Server. I was wondering if I should try CU for a week and if it works just transfer the files because I was scared to do it now and update later to CU in a few months and maybe have issues with the REFS conversion then. I was wondering what was the lowest risk. You have just answered. It gets so tiring to always hhave to think in those terms now. Yes, I will have backups for this but I don’t have daily backups for everyone I help.

        So, keep AU with defer, hoping REFS 3.2 will have been tested by at least one home user before it gets the CBB treatment. Why can’t they just add Paint 3D on top of the same OS instead of breaking so many deep things each time they issue a feature upgrade? Did all the competent people left?

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        • #111683

          I speculate they left involuntarily with notification and maybe a severance package.

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    • #111558

      It would be interesting to know if any of the Surface Studio systems received the CU through windows update. It was built for this update. My understanding is that they are shipped with AU on board. MS boasted that they took 30,000 orders in 2016 for shipment starting April 2017.

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    • #111599

      Oh that is such a mess. I have a computer I wanted to transfer data from to an AU one and I saw they changed the REFS version in CU to a version no other Windows has, not even Server.

      This is normal in the current context.
      Server 2016 is 1607 (being LTSB), while Windows 10 CB was “service packed” to 1703.

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      • #111633

        I understand. However, testing the latest REFS version during the “pilot” phase of Windows where in theory only home users on a home version of Windows test it, I doubt they will get much input from those about REFS and I for one won’t be one…

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        • #111659

          The theories of people here and what Microsoft intended are in conflict many times.
          I think 1703 CB is not only for home users, but for public release in general, including most businesses. This is Microsoft’s recommendation at least. CB is not a preview release.
          If some businesses decide to delay their implementation until CBB, then this is supported too, but not necessary the recommended way in Microsoft’s existing documentation.
          Think about CB as installing all patches immediately after release, vs delaying them for 1 week, more or according to Woody’s MS-DEFCON as being the CBB.
          So CB, 1703 in this case is not only for home users. This is only one of the interpretations.

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          • #111700

            Humm, ok. Thanks for the precision.

            Maybe Microsoft should adjust their marketing because MS themselves called CB the “pilot” phase. There seems to be a huge disconnect between marketing and engineering at Microsoft anyway. When you say “what Microsoft intended”, you seem to refer more to the technical, engineering side.

            Do you really think a lot of enterprises should run CB on production machines? I don’t see the advantage vs waiting for CBB, plus I only see more risk of work disruptions.

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            • #111701

              Fully agree. There haven’t been any signifant improvements in all the “feature updates” so far that would be worth the risk of going CB and potentially damaging your business to let people have some fun with Paint 3D or else.

              Antec P7 Silent * Corsair RM550x * ASUS TUF GAMING B560M-PLUS * Intel Core i5-11400F * 4 x 8 GB G.Skill Aegis DDR4 3200 MHz CL16 * Sapphire Radeon 6700 10GB * XPG GAMMIX S70 BLADE 1TB * SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Windows 10 Pro 22H2 64-bit
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            • #111755

              Everyone’s circumstances are different and generalisations do not serve a good purpose in this matter. You may feel comfortable using Windows 8.1, while other people are interested in moving ahead for business reasons, for hobby reasons or even for intuitive reasons in the sense that it is more profitable to go with the flow and follow the big players than to follow “what is right”. I am predominantly in the first and last category.

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            • #111766

              You may feel comfortable using Windows 8.1, while other people are interested in moving ahead for business reasons

              We’re not discussing W10 vs. Rest of the World here but whether it is reasonable to jump on CB right away or wait for CBB.

              it is more profitable to go with the flow and follow the big players than to follow “what is right”.

              If 75% of the World is NOT on W10 – and you would cut out gamers and those that had W10 by GWX and are not computer literate to go back even if the would want to, which would leave us with 10-15%, would you consider this 15% to be the “big players” and 75% being “losers”?

              Antec P7 Silent * Corsair RM550x * ASUS TUF GAMING B560M-PLUS * Intel Core i5-11400F * 4 x 8 GB G.Skill Aegis DDR4 3200 MHz CL16 * Sapphire Radeon 6700 10GB * XPG GAMMIX S70 BLADE 1TB * SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Windows 10 Pro 22H2 64-bit
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            • #111730

              Application software needs time to develop its patches for things broken by the new “version” of Windows.

              CBB seems the right time for anyone concerned enough about their computing environment to come here and read…

              And make no mistake, Windows 10 is released at what is traditionally the point where software would be beta tested, except that it’s not been tested by a professional SVT organization, so some would say it matches better to “late alpha”.

              Microsoft may THINK it’s ready for everyone (which is debatable since they’re decidedly NOT rolling out 1703 to everyone). The reality is that it’s no less complex than its predecessors, and the brilliant minds who once worked for Microsoft couldn’t get it right back then really until SP1. Why does anyone remotely think the current team could do it any better? Because Visual Studio is fundamentally better? LOL

              -Noel

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            • #111767

              Microsoft may THINK it’s ready for everyone (which is debatable since they’re decidedly NOT rolling out 1703 to everyone). The reality is that it’s no less complex than its predecessors, and the brilliant minds who once worked for Microsoft couldn’t get it right back then really until SP1.

              Just imagine – we’re already in May (almost, after the weekend) and the new release is due September; assuming they would want to have the Release Preview (i.e. final build, that would be only updated with “.xxx” patches) end of August, we’re left with 4 months. I wonder when they expect to fully rollout Creators Update – end of May, June? That will leave them 2 months to the next release after finishing the current one. I’m sure it will be polished to prefection. Even small Android apps look to be maintained more professionally.

              Antec P7 Silent * Corsair RM550x * ASUS TUF GAMING B560M-PLUS * Intel Core i5-11400F * 4 x 8 GB G.Skill Aegis DDR4 3200 MHz CL16 * Sapphire Radeon 6700 10GB * XPG GAMMIX S70 BLADE 1TB * SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Windows 10 Pro 22H2 64-bit
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    • #111711

      MS themselves called CB the “pilot” phase.

      Where?

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    • #111712

      Do you really think a lot of enterprises should run CB on production machines? I don’t see the advantage vs waiting for CBB, plus I only see more risk of work disruptions.

      I don’t want to comment either way. Just relaying what appears to be the official documentation.
      I would say it is closer to the marketing side, but you may be right that has some engineering elements in it.
      Large organisations tend to put more emphasis on compliance than on the end result and if things go wrong, they go back to the source and sort out that way.
      For me at home, I install everything and in the rare event that something goes wrong or a patch is retired, I just uninstall that patch.
      I don’t see why a lot of vocal posters here who have limited understanding of the technology and lack perspective of the industry as a whole anyway make claims which are far beyond their league.

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      • #111913

        I used to be like you at home and even at work for reasons we discussed earlier, but right now, I am not amused at all about the way Microsoft keeps issuing releases that are not polished enough, so for Home it will be Defer feature to only be on CBB. What bothers me is that lots of home folks are stuck with CB because of their home version and that is not fun if I have to manage the issues that arise from the new model just because it is not easy for them to just wait for CBB. The problem is also that I now fear that I might get unlucky and not just have to remove a patch, but get deeper issues that takes a much longer time to fix, like some folks who got partitions issues. My trust in the professionalism of Microsoft just is at a low point right now and I am not talking at all about any of the telemetry concerns that you donlt care for, just basic reliability that is a legitimate business concern.

        Maybe I shouldn’t generalize, but when I try hard, I don’t see much point in running CB for an enterprise, in fact the new context is much worse than when lots of enterprises were waiting for SP1 before deploying, after having skipped the first arguably almost beta version prior to the current release. I remember having so much issues with not quite old business printers after installing Vista and it took months for some manufacturers to fix them definitely. Why so many companies went from XP to 7 SP1 skipping Vista? I don’t see waiting for CBB as even comparable in terms of maybe delaying a bit for reasonable reasons.

        Like you say, it is true some businesses might have reasons to use the latest features, but I strongly doubt we could think of really important features that CB provides that you can’t wait four months for, unless you are in a bleeding edge VR related business maybe? In any case, for most companies, I don’t think it is such a stretch to make the hypothesis they don’t want the latest CB features if the price to pay is being on CB the way Microsoft manages it right now.

        I also think sometimes official documentation should be looked at with a critical eye. A lot of times, Microsoft made official recommendations based on not so clearly good reasons when you learned them or they seemed sometimes motivated by self-interest rather than customers needs (as in we don’t want too much support calls because of this). I often purposefully went against official documentation because I thought they were saying this just to avoid issues with people running old incompatible software, to give an example, and I ended up sometimes avoiding other issues by doing so. Still, I always find it relevant to consider official documentation and I am glad when you bring it up, but as we just saw with the ´pilot’ phase thing, sometimes if we define official documentation broadly enough, you will maybe find conflicting or even contradicting information between two sets of documentation.

        I am very surprised that official documentation would recommend using CB to businesses (or public release including businesses as you interpret it) when CBB means Current branch for business, as in unlike current branch, this one is for businesses. Why then have something called CBB in the first place if it doesn’t mean nothing to anyone?

        I really think the document where they mention pilot phase (not preview) is a nice way to put it. It is a pilot phase, a public release for all including businesses who want to use it too knowing it is not as stable as CBB and lots of bugs might need to be ironed out. That seems much more conform to the reality, especially when you know other information like the fact that MS don’t have as much testers as in the past and they are in a hurry to release faster than later. Just because Microsoft says something in an official documentation doesn’t mean it is true, and lots of people are legitimately trying to sort out what is true from what isn’t and those people are often people like Woody, knowledgeable, smart people that are a bit more skeptical of the claims MS made, knowing better than to just blindly trust them.

        From your last sentence, it seems you are quite annoyed by a lot of posts here. As for me, I think there are a lot of thoughtful posts by smart people with different levels of knowledge and contexts. I find the experience as a whole enriching and I am not too annoyed by the less enlightened comments. I can understand a lot of these people are trying to make sense of something that doesn’t seem to have any for them and I think it is great when knowledgeable folks can help them get a better understanding. I also think I know a bit more than some people here about security, but some of these people know a lot more thsn me about other aspects of Windows and I find it nice to be able to learn from them while hopefully sharing sometimes an information they will find useful.

        Finally, a lot of decision makers don’t have the luxury to dig deep in the details and might assume from marketing from Microsoft things that are very different than what a technical analysis would provide. Just think sbout that video where Ed Bott found I don’t remember how many false claims in the first 20 seconds about CU. It is hard to quickly get what is important to know when information is mixed with marketing in order to create a buzz for things that don’t have any. So I think we need to not put the biggest share of the blame on the user if there is so much confusion.

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      • #112019

        Some people come here for help because these things and occurrences are beyond their level of understanding.

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    • #111751

      Check out this Investopedia article titled “Microsoft Blocks Latest Windows 10 Update”
      http://www.investopedia.com/news/microsoft-blocks-latest-windows-10-update/
      It came out on April 27

      And this International Business Times article “Windows 10 Creators Update may have bugs – do not install it manually, warns Microsoft”
      http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/windows-10-creators-update-may-have-bugs-do-not-install-it-manually-warns-microsoft-1618881

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    • #111923

      I am not amused at all about the way Microsoft keeps issuing releases that are not polished enough

      This is not clear at all. Is this just because there is a perception that it is so?
      Microsoft has a known record of good and bad patches and Woody is probably the most knowledgeable person on the planet when it comes to Microsoft patching history.
      I don’t find recent patches as being worse quality than usual on average.

      The problem is also that I now fear that I might get unlucky and not just have to remove a patch, but get deeper issues that takes a much longer time to fix, like some folks who got partitions issues.

      I am not fully aware about the partition issues, although I read a little bit about it.
      It may be related to the known fact that every upgrade tends to create an additional Recovery hidden partition, which I tend to remove and it comes back again at the next major update. The cycle repeats itself and I cannot say that I am very pleased with that implementation. The partition issue may have something to do with the maximum number of 4 primary partitions for an MBR drive. You see, I tend to ignore this sort of issues because I can control them relatively easily, although it takes me few days to bring things back in control the way I want them to be.

      Home version? It is outside of my scope. I have to draw a line somewhere. There is no excuse though to have Pro downgraded to a lower status than Enterprise, when Enterprise is not widely available. In Windows 7 times, Retail Enterprise was named Ultimate and even then Pro was of equal status. Now, we don’t have the luxury of buying Enterprise or equivalent through retail channels and in such a situation, it is expected that Pro is the closest retail version available.

      It is not about blaming confused users. It is more about some users who believe that they are owed the highest quality hard to find information while they know better and do not have much to give, instead preferring to complain forever.
      I don’t have an interest in reading that sort of “fluff” or even “superfluff” and I think that those posts should go in the rants area.

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      • #112002

        I appreciate your position on Pro vs Enterprise. We share that opinion. I have a bit of the same feeling with Home, though. I feel that since Home is what comes on store bought PCs and Microsoft made it harder for IT people that helps folks at home or even small businesses friends to manage the computer just enough for them to have a quite good experience without needing Pro, I have an issue with it. Yes, they could buy Pro over their Home version, but I don’t think they should have to do that, just with all previous versions where Home was fine for many of those scenarios. Windows 10 is the first Windows where I would not say don’t waste your money on Pro for many people.

        regarding the issue of patches, I meant the whole reliability issue in a larger context, not just the fact that patches are more or less buggy thna before. Issuing a new Windows version every 4 months on a thight schedule will not help reliability and from what we have seen up to now even without the only 4 months delay, it doesn’t look good. I used to be more like you and would even tell people go ahead patch and I will help if any issue arise, but now I don’t feel the reliability of initial CB deserves this recommendation. Imappreciate MS effort to deploy more slowly when they identify issues though.

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        • #112050

          A lot of people seem to forget that on desktop computers running Pro at least, there is always the option to set automatic updates to disabled on or one of the other configurations known from previous OS using Group Policy. When deciding to update, just press the button to Check for Updates and will install the latest updates.
          There is no need at all to use wushowhide.cab
          I personally prefer Windows Update MiniTool (for checking) in combination with Download but do not install for more control. I install almost immediately though, without concern for the quality of the patches and roll-back by uninstalling if something undesired happens or the patch gets retired. I do the same almost all the time with drivers too.

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    • #112008

      Yesterday in my Creator’s VM I opened a File Explorer window and navigated to a network drive on a server via a UNC name (\\SERVER\SHARE). The drive happened to be spun down, but from what I’ve seen Windows caches at least one subdirectory level so the file list came up immediately.

      However, I clicked one of the column headings in Details view to change from Alphabetic to Modification Date sorting.

      The File Explorer files pane just went blank.

      I watched and heard the drive spin up (I was in the same room) but File Explorer never refreshed. I tried pressing the F5 key and still nothing. Only navigating away and back again caused the files to show again.

      I do exactly this kind of thing enough that I would have noticed it if it had been a problem in older versions of the OS. I don’t recall seeing it happen before. Yes, I know there have been reports of “Explorer fails to update” issues going WAYY back but I have fortunately been free of them.

      This is just another data point implying Creator’s Update is not quite ready for serious use.

      -Noel

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      • #112015

        Even with the 1607 version Explorer will close itself for an unknown silent reason. Maybe it should be renamed Windows ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Edition.

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    • #112069

      Do any of you have anything official about the issue someone here reported where some group policies settings gets locked or broken when you go from AU to CU? The person suggested to reset first before updating then reapply after. I don’t want to do that. I used LGPO to set plenty of GPs on lots of autonomous computers for various friends and others. It is not practical for me to call them in advance, reset settings, apply AU then reapply settings. I specifically used GPs to have as much as I can a set it and forget it experience with those computers while being able to maybe add a few new GPs after AU later with no hurry if most things stayed set up properly. This potential issue is very annoying to me.

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    • #112635

      I installed it yesterday on dual boot and d***, it’s quite faster compared to 8.1 on my new rig… Will keep on testing, but I’m starting to get a bit sold on W10.

      BTW, I downloaded from MS site and although the ISO date was 20th of March or so, it turns out I have 1703 installed. Is there 1703 on MS servers already or is it because I was on cable connection during install?

      Antec P7 Silent * Corsair RM550x * ASUS TUF GAMING B560M-PLUS * Intel Core i5-11400F * 4 x 8 GB G.Skill Aegis DDR4 3200 MHz CL16 * Sapphire Radeon 6700 10GB * XPG GAMMIX S70 BLADE 1TB * SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Windows 10 Pro 22H2 64-bit
      • #112653

        1703 was compiled and signed in March 17

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        • #112655

          This explains :). If it’s stable enough, I’ll go with CU – then, assuming I will stay on CBB when 1709 comes, I shall have peace of mind until at least the end of the year. If not, I’ll have to search for 1607 ISO somehwere.

          Antec P7 Silent * Corsair RM550x * ASUS TUF GAMING B560M-PLUS * Intel Core i5-11400F * 4 x 8 GB G.Skill Aegis DDR4 3200 MHz CL16 * Sapphire Radeon 6700 10GB * XPG GAMMIX S70 BLADE 1TB * SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Windows 10 Pro 22H2 64-bit
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