USB 3.1 Gen 2

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Greetings All –

Finished building my new WIN 10 1903 PC.  Rear panel connectors include two USB 3.1 Gen 2 ports.  One has a type A fitting, the other a type C.  My old computer’s front panel connectors had long since died, so I had been using 4 ft. extension cords (type A) to bridge the rear panel 3.1 Gen 1 connectors  for convenient USB plug-ins.  At this point I do not have any Gen 2 devices, but when I do, I will need a similar arrangement to plug stuff in, as the front panel USB connectors are Gen 1.  I’m assuming Gen 1 & Gen 2 wiring is somehow different, and the old cables will not work to full effect for connecting Gen 2 devices.  That’s a guess, however, and thought best to check with the experts before buying an unnecessary cable.  Thanks.

Casey H.

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I am no expert in the “I wrote a book on this” sense, or even “I read a book on this” sense, but only, if at all, in the “I see this every time I use one of those newfangled Macs at home with only little Gen 2 ports” sense. So, in case my non-expert advice does any good to you, these are my two cents:

(1) Use a dongle Gen1 => Gen 2.

(2) Use a hub dock where you can plug a number of different types of cable: USB, HDMI, Ethernet, etc. and has a cable of its own with a Gen 2 jack at the end — so it can be best described as a multi-purpose super-dongle, in my opinion.

If (2) might help you, then here are some things you might consider buying. But if you do that, first look at the specs very carefully, to make sure you are buying what you need, particularly whether the Gen 2 bits are for 10 GB/sec or 20 GB/sec (Gen 2×2), or (ideally) both:

https://www.amazon.com/usb-3-1-gen-2-hub/s?k=usb+3.1+gen+2+hub

More advice here:

https://www.howtogeek.com/406199/what-are-usb-gen-1-gen-2-and-gen-2×2/

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Casey H, Lars220

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Gen 2 cabling is “better” than gen 1 so you will need new extension cables or a hub as suggested.
Using gen 1 cable on gen 2 devices will make them slower.

cheers, Paul

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Casey H

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Thanks guys.  I haven’t gotten around to purchasing anything yet, but when I pick up my next storage device, I’ll also buy a gen 2 cable.

Casey H.

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Another question if you please.  My board is an MSI Z390-A Pro.  The manual labels the  relevant ports as USB 3.1 Gen 2 (Superspeed 10 Gbps).  Would it be fruitless to pick up a 2 x 2 device (20 Gbps), or would perhaps a BIOS update yield the greater transfer speed?

Casey H.

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I doubt you will get greater speed via a BIOS update – the USB chip will be the limiting factor.

Why do you need such speed? I only ever use USB for slow things, like backup or mice.

cheers, Paul

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I have been using USB external hard drives for data backup.  I’m just looking for the speediest way to run those backups.  The devices I currently have are both USB 3.1 Gen 1.  My next purchase would best seem to be a Gen 2 capable device.  I’m presuming a 20 Gbps device would cost more than a 10 Gbps device.  My system seems currently capable of accommodating 10, but I don’t know about 20.  If 20 is unobtainable, there would be no sense in buying such a device; my next purchase would be a 10.  My BIOS comment was that it’s my understanding that if the 10 & 20 receptacles are the same, then perhaps the system could be upgraded to 20 via a BIOS update, should MSI choose to offer it.  Then again, if as you say Paul, the speed is determined by the device itself, maybe a 20 device would work right now.  That’s what I’m trying to wrap my arms around.  Thanks.

Casey H.

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The transfer speed of the USB connection is determined by the slowest of the hardware on either end. If one is limited to 10Gbps and the other to 20Gbps, then the speed of the transfer is 10Gbps.
So you have t look at both the specs of the PC and the specs of the USB drive.

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USB 3.1 gen 1 (previously known as USB 3.0) is far faster than any hard drive I’ve ever seen, and similar to the fastest speeds SATA can muster.  Gen 1 is fast enough to use a SATA SSD to its full capability.

SSDs or USB “thumb” drives should not be used for backup purposes, as they can “forget” data if they are left powered down for long periods of time, so that leaves conventional hard drives as the best choice.  A Gen 2 connection wouldn’t do anything to increase the speed, as the Gen 1 connection was not the bottleneck in the first place.

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wavy, OscarCP, Elly

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Ascaris, on the actual speed of data achievable by using those new types of USB connectors: I don’t really know who may need them that is not into actually sending and receiving, or else transferring from one device to another, data sets amounting to terabits of data each, in a real hurry — and would be really curious to know. For all my own professional use I’ve been well-served with my WiFi router/fiberoptics Internet connection (75 – 75 Mb/s) or using an Ethernet cable directly plugged to my computer at one end and to the router at the other. For streaming HD video, same thing. For downloading software a few Gb in size, ditto. I just wait a few minutes, something I can do, and it is done.

By the way: this is a real, not an ironical question: I would like to know the answer and learn something I didn’t.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
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You didn’t mention what you are using for Storage Drives which will make a BIG difference in the speed of your backup. I just built a new computer in Sept. of last year and it has a number of Gen 2 ports A and C. Since I clone my drives, I went with an NVME for C drive and a small NVME enclosure for a backup. The cloning process is less than 2 mins. on Gen 2. Also, Plugging my older USB flash drives (USB 2.0/3.0) into a Gen2 socket makes the data transfer faster. So (at least in my experience) the older USB units will work ok and faster in the Gen2 ports.

Obviously the newer cables/equipment would make a better arrangement but it depends on what you will accept as fast.

Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does 🙂
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Let me ask this a different way.  If I bought a 20 Gbps device and the proper cable, would I get said transfer speed on the system I have described, or would I only get 10?  If so, is it possible to get 20 using some other means.  For example some kind of an express card, or as previously mentioned, a firmware upgrade out of the kindness of MSI’s collective heart?  According to the board’s spec sheet, two connections are labeled 3.1 Gen 2 Superspeed 10 Gbps.  Just trying to understand how this stuff works.  Thanks guys.

Casey H.

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Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does 🙂
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).

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Ascaris wrote:

SSDs or USB “thumb” drives should not be used for backup purposes, as they can “forget” data if they are left powered down for long periods of time

So can HDDs, it’s called “bit rot”. There is a solution, of course.

cheers, Paul

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[Paul T]

Casey H wrote:

If I bought a 20 Gbps device and the proper cable, would I get said transfer speed on the system I have described, or would I only get 10?

Let’s assume you have a SATA3 HDD on the end of your 20Gbps cable. SATA3 has a maximum transfer rate of 6Gbps, actual will be a lot less.

cheers, Paul

• This reply was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by Paul T.

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MrJimPhelps

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Based on my reading of the following Tech Radar article, it appears that the new external SSDs have a pure USB connection, rather than converting from USB to SATA inside the case. Therefore, the OP could likely achieve a 20Gbps connection speed with one of these drives.

https://www.techradar.com/news/best-external-desktop-and-portable-hard-disk-drives

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Casey H wrote:

Let me ask this a different way.  If I bought a 20 Gbps device and the proper cable, would I get said transfer speed on the system I have described, or would I only get 10?  If so, is it possible to get 20 using some other means.  For example some kind of an express card, or as previously mentioned, a firmware upgrade out of the kindness of MSI’s collective heart?  According to the board’s spec sheet, two connections are labeled 3.1 Gen 2 Superspeed 10 Gbps.  Just trying to understand how this stuff works.  Thanks guys.

Casey H.

The answer : You will get the max 10Gbps the motherboard/USB port permits. No firmware will change that.
It case of connecting to TB3 port (40Gbps) you could get your desired 20Gbps.
You can replace/upgrade your current motherboard to a one with TB3 (wonder why you didn’t)

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Casey H

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I now know that my next external drive purchase will be a Gen 2 10 Gbps device along with a proper cable.  In retrospect, I was not aware of the existence of a TB3 port.  Had I been so, I would have no doubt selected differently.  I did a fair amount of research, and the MSI Z-390A board seemed to be highly regarded for the price I was willing to pay.  As this is a new build, I  am stuck with whatever limitations it has.  Overall I am very pleased with it as the system is both fast and quiet.

I am still in the dark as to how a 20 Gbps connection differs from a 10 Gbps connection.  Are the ports physically different, have additional circuitry, or some such thing?  Thanks for all who have weighed in.

Casey H.

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Casey H wrote:

I am still in the dark as to how a 20 Gbps connection differs from a 10 Gbps connection

Faster = more bandwidth. Analogous to a bigger water pipe carrying more water than a smaller one.

cheers, Paul

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