Want Windows 11 on unsupported hardware ? sign a waiver

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[Alex5723]

https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/21/22686457/windows-11-health-check-compatible-supported-cpu-old-pc-waiver

….When I recently tried to upgrade my system to the Windows 11 beta, the installer popped up an unusual message: a press-button-to-accept acknowledgment that my PC would “no longer be supported” and that I might even be voiding my PC’s warranty if I were to continue…

• This topic was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by Alex5723.

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krism

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Where did you download Windows 11 from? Oh, wait, – you know what your doing..  If that’s the standard of dialog MS can muster for the first thing you see from their front line product, I hope it’s not a reflection of the overall quality (as ultimately we’ll all end up having to use it or change to Linux etc). The stilted dialog reads a bit like one of those scam emails you just delete.

 

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1. ) a big CYA move by Microsoft. They can always say later we told you so and you went ahead anyway.

2.) Allows enthusiasts with older PCs to install and run Win11.

3.) Attempts to scare people into new hardware.

--Joe

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Despite the disclaimer seems to me Microsoft is not telling us the FULL truth. As I can understand, reading between the lines, it means unsupported Windows 11 systems won’t receive updates advices on Windows Update. But since Windows 11 uses same core than Windows 10 the real meaning is users must MANUALLY install the patches. Now, and beyond the disclaimer, when the hell has Microsoft taken full responsibility that its – very common – errors can cause to user systems and content? That notice strikes me as the closest thing to the “yes but no” argument (so common to many spouses, big sigh).

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migongo wrote:

But since Windows 11 uses same core than Windows 10 the real meaning is users must MANUALLY install the patches.

Microsoft may block manually patch installation for Windows 11 on unsupported hardware.
Microsoft already pushes Windows 11 insiders on unsupported hardware to downgrade to Windows 10.

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migongo

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Do you have any sources confirming that Microsoft could block manual installations? As @bbearren pointed out in another message, upgrading from Windows 10 to Windows 11 is as simple as exchanging the install.esd file from Windows 10 in Windows 11, which allows installation with the same requirements as Windows 10; which seems to confirm that it is the same nucleus. If this is so, why should it block in Windows 11 or what has not blocked in Windows 10?

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migongo wrote:

as simple as exchanging the install.esd file from Windows 10 in Windows 11

Not quite.  It’s replacing the Windows 10 install.esd with the Windows 11 install.esd in the Windows 10 ISO.

But it sounds like Microsoft is going to allow installation anyway.  I still might not do it their way, though.

Create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates, in case you need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do. We don't all have to do the same things.

Computer Specs

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migongo

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migongo wrote:

If this is so, why should it block in Windows 11 or what has not blocked in Windows 10?

Why should Microsoft require hardware/security feature which has not been required in Windows 10 ?
Do you think you can fool Microsoft that you are running Windows 10 and not 11 by switching .ESD files ?

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Alex5723 wrote:

Do you think you can fool Microsoft that you are running Windows 10 and not 11 by switching .ESD files ?

It doesn’t “fool Microsoft” that you are running Windows 10.  It uses the Windows 10 installation wrapper (which does not have the TPM and Secure Boot checks) to open the install.esd (or install.wim) and start copying files, then proceeding with the upgrade.

Quite simple, really.  The blue screen says “Installing Windows 10”, but it is Windows 11 that emerges into the OOBE after installation is complete.

Create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates, in case you need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do. We don't all have to do the same things.

Computer Specs

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Microsoft want to run some of their security processes on a processor and software inaccessible to the operating system. It’s plain why they want to do that looking at the potential liabilities if they were found culpable for an exploit of their software – it’s risk management forced by the current malware environment. Also encryption incurs a small penalty in performance terms so if that’s dealt with by an assembly specialised in the operation rather than the CPU then the CPU can be doing better things and the encryption handshaking might be a shade quicker- a bit like the graphics workload has increasingly been passed from CPU to GPU.

Longer term Microsoft want to be selling software without incurring the wrath of the right to repair movement Susan Bradley refers to, so they need a business model where the old kit becomes less desirable, but without being rendered obsolete or unrepairable. Machines without TPM are generally older but not any any means past use so Microsoft is just making them less desirable..

On the other side the OEMs building the new systems need to be able to install the software without working through encryption (as that would require they handle the various parameters involved) so the current UEFI based method where the BIOS propagates settings that start encryption without user intervention at the end of the out of box process works fine for them. The TPM there is a part of the UEFI specification so without it though secure, the spec is incomplete. (I had a look having been taken to task recently – I believe a TPM this is what they mean by https://uefi.org/sites/default/files/resources/UEFI_Spec_2_8_final.pdf , section 2.6.2, item 26 among others.)

The question you would have to ask if what will happen in Windows 11 should the TPM fail after it’s been running a while – would the software then stop working? Someone’s going to hit that problem someday.

Here’s another question-

What should Microsoft build in Windows 11 to make it really desirable to the world in general.

If you can answer that for Microsoft.. it’s got to cost, we’ll be paying somehow.

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the bigger issue with installing Windows 11 on unsupported hardware would be the big feature updates. distant future feature updates for Win11 may break compatibility with or not run at all with unsupported systems

let’s see what doriel has to say about all of this

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EP wrote:

the bigger issue with installing Windows 11 on unsupported hardware would be the big feature updates

I don’t think this will be a problem as those PCs won’t get ANY updates, including feature updates.

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Alex5723 wrote:

I don’t think this will be a problem as those PCs won’t get ANY updates, including feature updates.

Not true.  Today, Patch Tuesday, my Windows 11 upgrade on unsupported hardware received the Malicious Software Removal Tool along with

KB5005537 Cumulative Update for NET Framework 3.5 and 4.5 for Windows 11 for x64
KB5006674 Cumulative Update for Windows 11 x64-based Systems

automatically.

Create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates, in case you need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do. We don't all have to do the same things.

Computer Specs

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Alex5723

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Believe it or not, getting updates will not be that big a chore.  Getting feature updates will not be that big a chore.  Part of it is knowing how, part of it is in knowing what Microsoft cannot do.

All this gloom and doom and it’s still not October 5.  Be patient.

Create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates, in case you need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do. We don't all have to do the same things.

Computer Specs

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Remember WGA ?

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Alex5723 wrote:

Remember WGA ?

Windows 11 is not RTM.  Microsoft can’t predict what they’re gonna do, much less the members of AskWoody.  When Windows 11 is RTM, I’ll check it out, I’ll find the workarounds necessary, and I’ll deal with it.

Which is not to say that I will actually continue to run it.  The new Start Screen sucks out loud, and I’m not interested in that.  I’m also not interested in the step-through menu design of “You can’t get there from here.”

It’s still not October 5, and nothing really matters until after that date.  All the gloom, doom and FUD never matches the ensuing reality.  I’ll wait for the reality.

Create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates, in case you need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do. We don't all have to do the same things.

Computer Specs

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wavy

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bbearren wrote:

Windows 11 is not RTM

I think that the 22000.194 Release Preview Channel is close to RTM and even maybe the RTM version.

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“is close to RTM” is not the same as “is RTM”.  I have the patience to wait until October 5, or whatever day Microsoft declares as “the official RTM” for Windows 11.  To paraphrase Yogi Berra, “It ain’t RTM until it’s RTM.”

The initial run of what I do and how I do it can be a bit time consuming, but it’s one and done.  I’m not gonna waste time on anything less than the RTM Windows 11, which I will probably mothball in drive images after I’m finished, anyway.  I’m not a fan of the OS as is.

Create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates, in case you need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do. We don't all have to do the same things.

Computer Specs

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Greetings,

Let’s say for the sake of argument that Windows 11 is going to be demanding on hardware requirements for some and for others the expense of considering buying a new computer.

My question is I’ve seen videos on u tube and a comment here at ask woody regarding windows fx 11 that interested people can download.

I’m not familiar with Linux I’ve always been a Windows OS man I seen on the windowfx 11.org  website that the software comes from Brazil does anyone know if this new mimic of windows 11 can be trusted any more than Redmond Wa. windows 11 in regards to spying on the people that install it?

Has anyone actually installed it yet and  did you have any problems and how did you make it bootable using a CD or a USB?

Thankx

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Mr Stan the man wrote:

Has anyone actually installed it yet

See https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/linuxfx-windowsfx-linux-version-of-windows-11/#post-2391429

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(this was supposed to have been posted as a reply to OP.)

Thanks for posting that. Yuh know, that may be just the way that MS sidesteps its CPU gen ruling. I think it’s funny, but smart of MS. The MBAs realized plan A wouldn’t fly so here is plan B.

But, really, has anyone ever successfully sued MS for its opsys “failing to be” “secure”??????????

I repeat, I think it’s funny. But I would have no problem accepting that. I think I accept junk agreements like that every day just to use things like google, my phone, walking out the door, etc.

- Thinkpad P15s Gen1 20T4-002KUS, i7-10510U, UEFI/GPT, 16GB, Sammy 500GB M.2.
others...
- Mint Cinnamon 21 current, Win 10 22H2. WuMgr. HP laserjets M254dw & P1606dn, Epson 2480 scanner.

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krism wrote:

But, really, has anyone ever successfully sued MS for its opsys “failing to be” “secure”??????????

No. But its long time due that someone does.

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You’d need to be a billionaire and very willing to lose millions to try…

Ice cube in very hot broiler has better chance…

- Thinkpad P15s Gen1 20T4-002KUS, i7-10510U, UEFI/GPT, 16GB, Sammy 500GB M.2.
others...
- Mint Cinnamon 21 current, Win 10 22H2. WuMgr. HP laserjets M254dw & P1606dn, Epson 2480 scanner.

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krism wrote:

You’d need to be a billionaire and very willing to lose millions to try…

Ice cube in very hot broiler has better chance…

You don’t need to be a billionaire to win vs Microsoft.
Microsoft lost in courts around the world for installing Windows 10 sneakily on Windows 7 PCs or after users bought PCs with Windows 10 preinstalled and installed Linux.
Microsoft was ordered to pay damages or refund the cost of Windows 10 (~$50).

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